Specifics on Brian's extraction from Landy

[doc smiley]

Other than "Never Learn Not To Love", which songs did The Beach Boys do this with?

I've wondered if "Suzie Cinncinati" might be one of those as well... nothing else Al has done reminds me of this track....
 

[Kamandi]

The ghost of Gary Usher must be heartbroken by Landy not getting writing credit.

[Wirestone]

Other than "Never Learn Not To Love", which songs did The Beach Boys do this with?

I'm guessing the songs on the '85 album that had Landy in the credits.

And IINM, "It's About Time," as well. There was a post about it on this board not too long ago...man, talk about finding out there's no Santa Claus...

I have to check, but I'm pretty sure my copy of the 2000 remastered KTSA/85 2-fer still has the Landy credits.  

It does not. ... I think. (Need to get out the actual liners to check.)

The change seems to have happened between 1995 (Landy is still credited on L&M and Melt Away in the IJWMFTT soundtrack notes) and 2000, when the twofer and the BW88 reissue came out. Landy's name was absent from writing credits in both (although he retained his executive producer credit for the latter).

[Debbie KL]

Landy did not co-write or work on songs in any traditional sense whatsoever. He wormed his way into the process by drugging the hell out of Brian and sucking the very air Brian was breathing. He had no business ever being around a piano or a recording studio or what have you with Brian anywhere in sight. He deserves jack.

Based on the original "lyrics" he wrote for "Black Widow", I heartily agree. Not to mention his mix of the 1988 album which was literally laughed out of the room when the suits heard it.

I agree with you guys (am also intrigued about that mix). Wirestone is perfectly on point above: "He was essentially a hostage-taker, a terrorist-therapist. Removal of his name from those songs is not only defensible, but as I said earlier, a moral necessity."

Again I'll say, there are plenty of credible sources one can cull from, both in print and on the web, to find out who did what on the album...these sources will not go away. But giving a criminal thug who terrorized and abused Brian official recognition for his "work" on the album is morally reprehensible.

The deal with Landy as a "treating provider" (and I include his whole crew) is that the minute Landy wanted to "change careers" he needed to relinquish his "treatment duties" and another treatment provider brought in.  The conflict of interest is just too great.  His prime duty is to his patient. 

Once he engaged in the business aspect, he (and his agents) should  likely have withdrawn from his care.  But, somehow he got away with this out in the open. It seemed to be an open secret.  He was photographed at the board with Brian.  He developed a company with Brian.  And, hindsight is 20/20 but somehow he evaded prosecution.

Thanks, FdP...Given that the Landy/Morgan credits were there and then were removed during the litigation/settlement period in the process of Landy's removal, it seems fairly obvious that this has already been settled in a legitimate court of law, and the court of SS doesn't have much jurisdiction in this argument.  I guess the great mystery is that a group of posters here seem to want to "re-value" Landy both as a therapist and as a composer/producer.  It's a subject that's been revived, over and over, from every angle.  One might suppose that there's a reason.  I feel fairly certain that I don't want to know what it is.

[HeyJude]

As my posts have indicated, I don’t think Landy’s name being removed is an issue at all. But for the sake of historical accuracy, as Wirestone mentioned, it appears the settlement agreement removing Landy’s name from the song credits took place *after* Brian was separated from Landy. The 1995 “IJWMFTT” CD still had Landy’s name.

Also, I don’t think there has been any disagreement on *how* Landy’s name was removed. On either the ’88 BW CD or the ’85 album two-fer CD, there is a little note explaining the removal of Landy’s name. Even those advocating for Landy’s name to be kept on don’t seem to be disagreeing with the mechanism by which his name was removed, or the legal legitimacy of it.  

[hideyotsuburaya]

the Beach Boys song with the weightiest Landy songwriting credit (IMO) MALE EGO seems to've been lost over the years, perhaps as a result of these legal proceedings

[Debbie KL]

As my posts have indicated, I don’t think Landy’s name being removed is an issue at all. But for the sake of historical accuracy, as Wirestone mentioned, it appears the settlement agreement removing Landy’s name from the song credits took place *after* Brian was separated from Landy. The 1995 “IJWMFTT” CD still had Landy’s name.

Also, I don’t think there has been any disagreement on *how* Landy’s name was removed. On either the ’88 BW CD or the ’85 album two-fer CD, there is a little note explaining the removal of Landy’s name. Even those advocating for Landy’s name to be kept on don’t seem to be disagreeing with the mechanism by which his name was removed, or the legal legitimacy of it.  

Clearly, you weren't someone arguing the legal issue.  There are some here who don't seem to be able to let the "Landy contribution" issue drop, from any perspective - that is what I find puzzling.  What's the investment there?  Why?  

[Custom Machine]

The MO that the  Beach Boys collectively and individually with respect to songs they wanted to record written by people outside of the group  was to buy the individual's  copyright interest out and to credit the group member that was interested in the song. They  did that with Manson and Landy, and with Ersel Hickey,they bought the Bluebirds copyright, but couldn't realistically credit a group member with writing it because it was enough of a hit in the 1950s that it would have been  ridiculous to say a group member  wrote it or co-wrote it. Part of the group's approach was to pay generously a song's writer,then publish it through Sea of Tunes and later Brother.

Considering the large number of BB songs (both as a group and individually) credited to other writers, with or without one or more group members also receiving credit, I'm baffled by this statement.

In the case of Manson, I don't think any official copyright interest was purchased by the Dennis or the BBs. Instead Dennis stated that he felt he had provided enough financial recompense to Manson and clan, and so he went ahead, without Manson's knowledge, and claimed full writer's credit, with the publishing assigned to Brother Publishing company.

As far as Landy is concerned, it sounds like you are saying that Landy was involved in writing some BW and/or BB songs for which he did not initially receive writer's credit, instead being bought out. But what I'm assuming you intended to say is that the songs for which Landy and Morgan initially received a writer's credit had their copyrights bought out and their names removed. In the case of the 1988 Brian Wilson album, six differenent co-writers, including Landy and Morgan, were listed on the initial release. After the settlement with Landy, only his and Morgan's names were removed, with the four other co-wiriters still receiving credit. I really have no idea what the terms of the settlement with Landy were, but are you saying that Landy and Morgan actually received significant financial consideration for giving up their co-writer's credits? I've always assumed the loss of the co-writer's credits was some sort of penalty for Landy's mistreatment of his patient, but am certainly open to additional info on the subject.

Are there any other instances you are aware of where the BBs, either collectively or individually, bought out a writer's credit and claimed full writing credit for themselves?

[The Shift]

I have a vague memory of a case being alluded to on this board some time ago; I think it was Andrew (GD) but I might be putting him on the spot in bringing it up. Can you shed light Andrew?

Btw I don't think, as one of two folk are maybe suggesting, that anyone's trying to stand up for Landy's creativity or any such in suggesting that his name ought to be on the credits. It's nothing more than a matter of historical accuracy. Just like getting the ingredients list right on food packaging. Folks here in the UK got quite upset several months ago when "horse meat" was omitted from the ingredients of several meat pies and similar products. Speaking personally, I just like to know what went into the stuff I'm consuming, be it steak and kidney pie or The Beach Boys 1985.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Other than "Never Learn Not To Love", which songs did The Beach Boys do this with?

I'm guessing the songs on the '85 album that had Landy in the credits.

And IINM, "It's About Time," as well. There was a post about it on this board not too long ago...man, talk about finding out there's no Santa Claus...

I have to check, but I'm pretty sure my copy of the 2000 remastered KTSA/85 2-fer still has the Landy credits.  

It does not. ... I think. (Need to get out the actual liners to check.)

The change seems to have happened between 1995 (Landy is still credited on L&M and Melt Away in the IJWMFTT soundtrack notes) and 2000, when the twofer and the BW88 reissue came out. Landy's name was absent from writing credits in both (although he retained his executive producer credit for the latter).

Landy's credit was removed from "Crack At Your Love" but remains on "I'm So Lonely" & "It's Just A Matter of Time" on the 1985 album reissue.

[The Shift]

Anyone got the new vinyl 1985 reissue? How are the credits there?

[Custom Machine]

Anyone got the new vinyl 1985 reissue? How are the credits there?

Landy's credit is removed from all three songs on the BB 85 vinyl reissue from earlier this year, but the statement "Special thanks to Dr. Eugene E. Landy and Carlos Booker" remains.

So who is Carlos Booker?

[Andrew G. Doe]

One of Brian's "minders" during the second (and I think first too) Landy era.

[mikeddonn]

Other than "Never Learn Not To Love", which songs did The Beach Boys do this with?

I'm guessing the songs on the '85 album that had Landy in the credits.

And IINM, "It's About Time," as well. There was a post about it on this board not too long ago...man, talk about finding out there's no Santa Claus...

I kind of felt the same when I read that story.  I believe it was in the thread for "Sweet and Bitter" and "Out in the Country" round abut the time the MIC boxset came out.

[Mike's Beard]

Btw I don't think, as one of two folk are maybe suggesting, that anyone's trying to stand up for Landy's creativity or any such in suggesting that his name ought to be on the credits.

Nobody is but trying to explain that to certain posters would be a waste of oxygen.

[The Shift]

Btw I don't think, as one of two folk are maybe suggesting, that anyone's trying to stand up for Landy's creativity or any such in suggesting that his name ought to be on the credits.

Nobody is but trying to explain that to certain posters would be a waste of oxygen.

[Mike's Beard]

On a side note, I seem to recall my first ever Pet Sounds cd crediting "Dr. Eugene Landy as Excecutive Producer" or something along those lines. How on earth does one take credit for something recorded a decade before they even met the person who made it?

[Bittersweet-Sanity]

On a side note, I seem to recall my first ever Pet Sounds cd crediting "Dr. Eugene Landy as Excecutive Producer" or something along those lines. How on earth does one take credit for something recorded a decade before they even met the person who made it?

Executive consultant of CD remastering: Dr. Eugene Landy

[Sheriff John Stone]

But again, Landy being a scumbag who forced himself on Brian creatively doesn't alter the fact that he had a hand in many of the songs Brian wrote during this period. It's part of Beach Boys history, like it or not.

This. I deplore Landy's actions as much as the next smileysmiler. What motivates humans to behave like he did to fellow humans is completely beyond me, especially as I tend to naively assume the best in people from the outset before starting to form an opinion based on experience. But rewriting history? Isn't that what Stalin did?

Accurately and fairly record the terrible things Landy did, for all to learn from. Accurately and fairly record the credits for songs for future Beach Boys historians to learn from. Spin his royalties into a charity account for victims of similar abuse to benefit from.

I agree with the above posts. What this "credit changing" story says is that if one party has enough money, and the other party doesn't, you can basically rewrite history. So, David Sandler, Scott Bennett, and others (I'd add Joe Thomas but he already got his ass sued by Melinda and probably signed "papers" going forward), if for some reason you find yourself unemployed, desperate, or in need of some quick cash, I've got a phone number for you.

[SMiLE Brian]

God, you hate Brian Wilson.

[ontor pertawst]

More like Landy put his name on Brian's songs the way Mike Love put his name on "Under the Boardwalk." Once this operation to restore Landy's credits is complete, maybe we need to take a hard look at Kokomo next. In the interests of historical accuracy of course. All of us are above petty feuds with our perceived enemies. The sincerity shines through... you can tell by the smiley faces.

Seriously, what a rabbit hole you guys are going down here. Historical accuracy? C'mon. You might as well wear t-shirts that say TRANSPARENT BULLSHIT. All of this isn't occuring in a vacuum, astute readers definitely can work out the context and axes being grinded.  Just look at SJS's post up there... gee, what could possibly be the underlying motivation there?

[Mike's Beard]

On a side note, I seem to recall my first ever Pet Sounds cd crediting "Dr. Eugene Landy as Excecutive Producer" or something along those lines. How on earth does one take credit for something recorded a decade before they even met the person who made it?

Executive consultant of CD remastering: Dr. Eugene Landy

Yes, that rings a bell.

[Mike's Beard]

More like Landy put his name on Brian's songs the way Mike Love put his name on "Under the Boardwalk." Once this operation to restore Landy's credits is complete, maybe we need to take a hard look at Kokomo next. In the interests of historical accuracy of course. All of us are above petty feuds with our perceived enemies. The sincerity shines through... you can tell by the smiley faces.

Seriously, what a rabbit hole you guys are going down here. Historical accuracy? C'mon. You might as well wear t-shirts that say TRANSPARENT BULLSHIT. All of this isn't occuring in a vacuum, astute readers definitely can work out the context and axes being grinded. 

I thought you promised to stay out of this thread. You lack follow through.

[ontor pertawst]

I'm not gonna swap kindergarten insults with you, Beard. Or make this personal and bug the mods, that's what I was talking about.

But doubling down on this charade is preposterous. You lack conviction and bgas called it. Pure devil's advocate nonsense from people who should know better. You'd holler like stuck pigs if any of Mike's lyrical contributions were challenged... but wow, invoke the specter of the diabolical Melinda Wilson in defense of EUGENE FUCKING LANDY. Not transparent at all.

What a twisted version of "historical accuracy." A new low, fellas. Enjoy the view.

[The Shift]

There seems to be some kind of theory that there's a conspiracy goin' on…