Specifics on Brian's extraction from Landy

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly!

[Mike's Beard]

Landy did not co-write or work on songs in any traditional sense whatsoever. He wormed his way into the process by drugging the hell out of Brian and sucking the very air Brian was breathing. He had no business ever being around a piano or a recording studio or what have you with Brian anywhere in sight. He deserves jack.

Landy and Morgan cowrote the lyrics to many of Brian's songs throughout the 80s. Just because he had no business being in the studio with Brian doesn't change the fact that he was there.
After all the money Landy bled from Brian it was only right that he never recieved another penny from these recordings, but to rewrite history and pretend that Landy never contributed creatively during this era is just daft.

[SMiLE Brian]

Landy was a leech in all area of BW's life. Total control meant having his name on everything BW did.

[Wirestone]

Given the circumstances, it's nearly impossible to know what the doctor's true contribution was to any individual song. Given his exploitation of Brian in other areas, it's not a stretch to imagine that he contributed little to nothing of value. Even if he ended up writing a verse or two, the particulars of his exploitation make the removal of his credits a basic moral necessity.

[SinisterSmile]

Hey, if Landy feels slighted, maybe it's about time he spoke up.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Hey, if Landy feels slighted, maybe it's about time he spoke up.

He's too busy chilling* with this dude




* pun intended.

[ontor pertawst]

but to rewrite history and pretend that Landy never contributed creatively during this era is just daft.

I really think you should make it your mission to ensure history is recorded properly, fight this terrible injustice wherever it occurs and make sure the good name of Eugene Landy isn't besmirched. All of his creativity can't be forgotten by history. His contributions were so critical, so worthy of fighting the good fight. Brian Wilson has stolen credit from Eugene Landy for long enough, right? This revisionism must not stand! Maybe team up with Evan and pursue legal action, I'm sure Mike Love would find it "interesting."

There's still time! Don't let "them" win!

[Please delete my account]

I agree that Landy and Morgan should be listed on the sleeves as writers if (for good or ill) they wrote some of the lyrics. Not to entitle them to any money - certainly not that - but just for the historical record. (If they were credited spuriously, that's another matter). Or is it legally impossible to "credit" someone on a song without paying them royalties?

[HeyJude]

Even if you strip the moral/ethical issue away and just look at the relative normality or lack thereof of the whole Landy situation, the fact that Landy and Morgan's name were taken off of songs that they probably did technically write *something* for at some point, is really not a big issue.

If all else were normal, then it would be an issue worth debating. But this occurred in a universe where *all that stuff* happened to and around Brian. He was the victim in a criminal long-term series of events that are pretty unique and heinous. The whole series of events leading to Landy even being there and "writing" anything are so bizarre and criminal that, to fixate on the historical accuracy/morals/ethics is, for lack of a less clichéd way to put it, like arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

If this had just been a case of Brian having a personal business manager or something where the relationship turned sour after the manager writing some lyrics, I'd say it would be uncalled for in most circumstances to remove their name. But that's not what was going on with Brian. The whole thing was predicated on a truly bizarre, unconventional relationship where the opportunity to "write" anything with Brian shouldn't have been there, and a situation where Brian didn't have the capacity to enter into a songwriting partnership/agreement.

Additionally, even if nothing was out of the ordinary at all, if a writer on a song wants to sign an agreement where they are compensated in some way and they both sign away their royalties *and* agree to remove their name from a song, that person is entitled to do so. Just as names can be added to songs via lawsuits or settlements, so too can names be removed.

Who knows, it's unlikely, but theoretically Landy could have actually thought "You know, the circumstances around writing those songs was so inappropriate and sketchy, the right thing to do is to remove my name and wash my hands of the whole thing."

[rab2591]

Can we get Charles Manson's name in the liner note credits for 20/20 for the sake of historical accuracy? Oh wait, maybe the Beach Boys would rather not have a notorious murderer being credited on one of their albums. Likewise, given the psychotic nature of Landy and the circumstances around that '88 album (didn't Brian and some friends have to sneak into the studio to record non-Landy-lyrics for a song?) it doesn't seem unreasonable to not have his name on the credits of the album.

If one is searching for a historically accurate account of the process of recording BW '88, there are plenty of credible sources in print and on the web that can shed light on this era...no need to hijack the album liner notes with the name of a thug.

[Emily]

Really, if this were pursued to the legal limit,  Landy should have been subject to asset forfeiture for any profits gained beyond legitimate therapeutic activities. He should have received no money or credit for his "song writing" as it was a consequence of criminal activity.

[Paul J B]

Landy did not co-write or work on songs in any traditional sense whatsoever. He wormed his way into the process by drugging the hell out of Brian and sucking the very air Brian was breathing. He had no business ever being around a piano or a recording studio or what have you with Brian anywhere in sight. He deserves jack.

Landy and Morgan cowrote the lyrics to many of Brian's songs throughout the 80s. Just because he had no business being in the studio with Brian doesn't change the fact that he was there.
After all the money Landy bled from Brian it was only right that he never recieved another penny from these recordings, but to rewrite history and pretend that Landy never contributed creatively during this era is just daft.

No one is rewriting history. You are assuming Landy contributed creatively because why exactly? Because he said so at the time? Because he made sure Brian sang a line or two he may have come up with? The circumstances of WHY Landy was around Brian 24/7 and WHAT he was doing all those years yield any such claimed credit on any songs by Landy laughable. He did not have a creative bone in his body. His name was justifiably removed from those album credits.

Is Landy's "Brian" autobiography truthful literature? At the time Landy claimed it was. 

[37!ws]

Is Landy's "Brian" autobiography truthful literature? At the time Landy claimed it was. 

Well, it did list "George Fell" as a track recorded during Smile. And it had a picture of Brian from the August 1967 Hawaii dates playing bass captioned as "laying down tracks for Pet Sounds." And it shows a picture of Brian holding a dog that's certainly not a beagle and saying it was Banana. And that "Rio Grande" was orginally going to be a song called "Child, Adult, Parent."

Sounds truthful to me.

[Mike's Beard]

but to rewrite history and pretend that Landy never contributed creatively during this era is just daft.

I really think you should make it your mission to ensure history is recorded properly, fight this terrible injustice wherever it occurs and make sure the good name of Eugene Landy isn't besmirched. All of his creativity can't be forgotten by history. His contributions were so critical, so worthy of fighting the good fight. Brian Wilson has stolen credit from Eugene Landy for long enough, right? This revisionism must not stand! Maybe team up with Evan and pursue legal action, I'm sure Mike Love would find it "interesting."

There's still time! Don't let "them" win!

You really are an idiot.

[Mike's Beard]

Who knows, it's unlikely, but theoretically Landy could have actually thought "You know, the circumstances around writing those songs was so inappropriate and sketchy, the right thing to do is to remove my name and wash my hands of the whole thing."

Very unlikely I'd say.

[Mike's Beard]

Landy did not co-write or work on songs in any traditional sense whatsoever. He wormed his way into the process by drugging the hell out of Brian and sucking the very air Brian was breathing. He had no business ever being around a piano or a recording studio or what have you with Brian anywhere in sight. He deserves jack.

Landy and Morgan cowrote the lyrics to many of Brian's songs throughout the 80s. Just because he had no business being in the studio with Brian doesn't change the fact that he was there.
After all the money Landy bled from Brian it was only right that he never recieved another penny from these recordings, but to rewrite history and pretend that Landy never contributed creatively during this era is just daft.

No one is rewriting history. You are assuming Landy contributed creatively because why exactly? Because he said so at the time? Because he made sure Brian sang a line or two he may have come up with? The circumstances of WHY Landy was around Brian 24/7 and WHAT he was doing all those years yield any such claimed credit on any songs by Landy laughable. He did not have a creative bone in his body. His name was justifiably removed from those album credits.

Is Landy's "Brian" autobiography truthful literature? At the time Landy claimed it was. 

Landy's book may have been full of crap but I've yet to see any insider dispute that he and his girlfriend were writing with Brian at the time. Or is Brian to take the full blame for SMaRT GiRLS now?

[Mike's Beard]

Can we get Charles Manson's name in the liner note credits for 20/20 for the sake of historical accuracy?

I've said before and I'll say it again; I still can't believe that Never Learn Not to Love was not quietly removed from subsequent repressings of 20/20.

[CenturyDeprived]

Can we get Charles Manson's name in the liner note credits for 20/20 for the sake of historical accuracy?

I've said before and I'll say it again; I still can't believe that Never Learn Not to Love was not quietly removed from subsequent repressings of 20/20.

If Manson's name had been initially credited on the first pressing, it seems certain either the name would have been removed, or the song entirely. Sad, because the finished product turned out to a great song and production, regardless of its origins.

I've posed this question before, but nobody seemed to know, so I'll try again: when did fans and the public become aware of NLNTL having a Manson connection? Was it right away, or not for a number of years after its release?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

If (and I must stress, IF) Landy's contributions actually made it to any of the released songs, then I think yes, he DOES deserve label credit (and only that, nothing financial)....but only after the same happens for Gary Usher on 'Walk the Line', and not before.

[Mike's Beard]

Can we get Charles Manson's name in the liner note credits for 20/20 for the sake of historical accuracy?

I've said before and I'll say it again; I still can't believe that Never Learn Not to Love was not quietly removed from subsequent repressings of 20/20.

If Manson's name had been initially credited on the first pressing, it seems certain either the name would have been removed, or the song entirely. Sad, because the finished product turned out to a great song and production, regardless of its origins.

I've posed this question before, but nobody seemed to know, so I'll try again: when did fans and the public become aware of NLNTL having a Manson connection? Was it right away, or not for a number of years after its release?

Well I'm glad it's still on there 'cos
(a) it was by far the best thing Dennis had done up 'till that point
(b) it turned me on to the LIE album which is actually a great record.

I know by the time of the Tate/LaBianca trial it was common knowledge that The Beach Boys had covered a Manson tune.

[guitarfool2002]

but to rewrite history and pretend that Landy never contributed creatively during this era is just daft.

I really think you should make it your mission to ensure history is recorded properly, fight this terrible injustice wherever it occurs and make sure the good name of Eugene Landy isn't besmirched. All of his creativity can't be forgotten by history. His contributions were so critical, so worthy of fighting the good fight. Brian Wilson has stolen credit from Eugene Landy for long enough, right? This revisionism must not stand! Maybe team up with Evan and pursue legal action, I'm sure Mike Love would find it "interesting."

There's still time! Don't let "them" win!

You really are an idiot.

That's out of line.

[Mike's Beard]

but to rewrite history and pretend that Landy never contributed creatively during this era is just daft.

I really think you should make it your mission to ensure history is recorded properly, fight this terrible injustice wherever it occurs and make sure the good name of Eugene Landy isn't besmirched. All of his creativity can't be forgotten by history. His contributions were so critical, so worthy of fighting the good fight. Brian Wilson has stolen credit from Eugene Landy for long enough, right? This revisionism must not stand! Maybe team up with Evan and pursue legal action, I'm sure Mike Love would find it "interesting."

There's still time! Don't let "them" win!

You really are an idiot.

That's out of line.

As was his snarky response to my original post.

[guitarfool2002]

but to rewrite history and pretend that Landy never contributed creatively during this era is just daft.

I really think you should make it your mission to ensure history is recorded properly, fight this terrible injustice wherever it occurs and make sure the good name of Eugene Landy isn't besmirched. All of his creativity can't be forgotten by history. His contributions were so critical, so worthy of fighting the good fight. Brian Wilson has stolen credit from Eugene Landy for long enough, right? This revisionism must not stand! Maybe team up with Evan and pursue legal action, I'm sure Mike Love would find it "interesting."

There's still time! Don't let "them" win!

You really are an idiot.

That's out of line.

As was his snarky response to my original post.

It's out of line to provoke by calling another board member an idiot or any similar name no matter how the debate/discussion/argument is going. Consider it a warning.

[The Shift]

but to rewrite history and pretend that Landy never contributed creatively during this era is just daft.

I really think you should make it your mission to ensure history is recorded properly, fight this terrible injustice wherever it occurs and make sure the good name of Eugene Landy isn't besmirched. All of his creativity can't be forgotten by history. His contributions were so critical, so worthy of fighting the good fight. Brian Wilson has stolen credit from Eugene Landy for long enough, right? This revisionism must not stand! Maybe team up with Evan and pursue legal action, I'm sure Mike Love would find it "interesting."

There's still time! Don't let "them" win!

You really are an idiot.

That's out of line.

As was his snarky response to my original post.

It's out of line to provoke by calling another board member an idiot or any similar name no matter how the debate/discussion/argument is going. Consider it a warning.

Sorry, I'm with Mike's Beard on this. Okay, maybe the use of the word "idiot" might have been inappropriate and knee-jerk but there was a high degree of provocation – Ontor Pertawst's response seems far from polite and may well have had an element of goading.

Billy's suggestion –

If (and I must stress, IF) Landy's contributions actually made it to any of the released songs, then I think yes, he DOES deserve label credit (and only that, nothing financial)....but only after the same happens for Gary Usher on 'Walk the Line', and not before.

– strikes me as a route that might have been much more acceptable to all parties, including those keen on historical accuracy.

[bgas]

Billy's suggestion –

If (and I must stress, IF) Landy's contributions actually made it to any of the released songs, then I think yes, he DOES deserve label credit (and only that, nothing financial)....but only after the same happens for Gary Usher on 'Walk the Line', and not before.

– strikes me as a route that might have been much more acceptable to all parties, including those keen on historical accuracy.

In a perfect world? ( But then, in that world, Landy would never have been able to get close enough to be writing songs)

 Dear ASCAP/BMI -- 
Please allow eugene to have his name on the songs but don't send him any $$...   
 IS Ludicrous

EL sold /relinquished any rights he might have had. There's no need to revisit on his behalf, and only riles tempers

Please let it go