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Author Topic: Your SMiLE mix...for the fun of it  (Read 73459 times)
zosobird
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« Reply #325 on: December 14, 2015, 07:14:38 PM »

C-Man! thanks for the insight! really cool
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #326 on: January 02, 2016, 06:27:32 PM »

Something has always made me wonder about the transition from "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" into "The Water Chant" and then into "I Love To Say Dada" (or "In Blue Hawaii"). Several fan mixes, including Darian Sahanaja's, goes from the fire into "The Water Chant" and then into more water (i.e. the ocean). And that's what never made sense to me.

"Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" is a barn burning down and, I guess, firemen coming to the rescue. I'm assuming "The Water Chant" - even though it was recorded during the Wild Honey sessions - is the water putting the fire out? But then, we go from putting out a barn fire on a farm into sailing on the ocean? As soon as the fire is extinguished, he ends up in the cool, cool water of the ocean. That's quite a leap. Literally.

Like I usually do, I'm sure I'm putting too much lyrically and literally into this sequence, but it also makes me wonder what Brian was planning in 1966-67. What "water" would've he followed "fire" with, or whatever order he chose? Would've he "put out the fire" with water, or, would've he recorded some form of water - just to include it as part of an element, or The Elements?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 07:04:12 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
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« Reply #327 on: January 02, 2016, 08:07:02 PM »

Something has always made me wonder about the transition from "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" into "The Water Chant" and then into "I Love To Say Dada" (or "In Blue Hawaii"). Several fan mixes, including Darian Sahanaja's, goes from the fire into "The Water Chant" and then into more water (i.e. the ocean). And that's what never made sense to me.

"Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" is a barn burning down and, I guess, firemen coming to the rescue. I'm assuming "The Water Chant" - even though it was recorded during the Wild Honey sessions - is the water putting the fire out? But then, we go from putting out a barn fire on a farm into sailing on the ocean? As soon as the fire is extinguished, he ends up in the cool, cool water of the ocean. That's quite a leap. Literally.

Like I usually do, I'm sure I'm putting too much lyrically and literally into this sequence, but it also makes me wonder what Brian was planning in 1966-67. What "water" would've he followed "fire" with, or whatever order he chose? Would've he "put out the fire" with water, or, would've he recorded some form of water - just to include it as part of an element, or The Elements?

I definitely think Fire wouldve come first, or else maybe Veggies, perhaps following H&V like in Smiley Smile. Or maybe that wouldnt have happened until after Veggies branched off into its own song. Or maybe it wouldnt have happened at all  Tongue

In all seriousness, I think Fire is most plausibly the first. It says Part 1, and thats as good of evidence as we'll ever get. If not some kinda lead in with some Psychedelic Sounds skit or something, I think the best bet is a cold open. There's something like that on Smiley where the mostly quiet Wind Chimes fades out gracefully...and then Getting Hungry comes on loud and fast with no warning or lead in. I think something like that could've happened with The Elements. Perhaps even with the SMiLE version of Wind Chimes (tho, I still maintain even in this scenario WC would not be Air but its own standalone song.) Maybe Cabin Essence or Worms couldve preceded it too, with the same effect.

Then its all up in the air, but if not the first, I think Veggies HAS to be last if its used in an elements context. Otherwise it would just be weird, a fully vocalized song in between a bunch of weird chants or instrumental segments. It wouldnt be a very good flow. I like to use it as the end to Side 1, for various reasons. Its a very strong track I think--I never used to think so until the fantastic remix on TSS. The other elements serve as a strong lead in to it, and allows you to bookend some of the more downcast or bleak tracks like CE and Fire with the more upbeat Heroes and Veggies.

I guess it doesnt matter whether Air or Water be 2 or 3, I always just assume you gotta put the fire out, which seems to be how everyone proceeds with it as youre pointing out. Air has that moaning laugh part which perfectly sets up the humorous Veggies Earth section. So to me that was just a no brainer.

I guess it could be cool to think of Air coming first. A slow build up of the breathing getting more intense and feeding the fire. You'd have to make it fade in tho, otherwise Im not sure how itd work without sounding too jarring (and not in a good, intentional way like the scenario I described earlier). Either way, water would still have to follow Fire. Otherwise youve got that same problem of a fully realized vocal song awkwardly sandwiched between two half-finished instrumentals or one instrumental and one a capella. Having water go before Fire just doesnt really make sense. You gotta put the fire out...but how does Water go into Fire?

I know some people prefer using Dada as either Air or Water. In either case, I think it just wouldnt sound very good going from a really laid back kinda jazzy tune to pure terror realized in music. Personally, I have the same issue with Dada coming after Fire--one of my reasons for disliking the Third Suite/An Elements Side. I do think it works better after Fire than before it in any case.

So...yeah. Why does Water follow Fire? In almost any scenario I can think of its because ... where else could it go? Simple as that really.

EDIT: I think its important to mention you can hear him talk about "put them out; put each one of them out" to the instrumentalists in the session tape. I forget who exactly hes directing to do that, but putting out the fire was absolutely on his mind. It happens in the Fire track itself, but also according to some the Elements would crossfade (I personally believe it would) so maybe (probably) the water element would start fading in around that part.

We know from Vosse he was sent to record water sounds. I believe he mentions he himself suggested the idea, and Brian said he could make a whole song using the water as music notes. Its unclear if this would be the Water element or its own thing. I kinda think people conveniently dismiss Brian's more off the wall recordings like this and of course, Psychedelic Sounds, as some separate project when in actuality it was all destined for the same project or at least part of the same train of thought. Spoken word humor and sound effects. We have contemporaneous interviews confirming the inclusions of these on SMiLE from Brian and VDP. We have the water pouring into a glass and cork popping on Smiley. I think its probable that these water recordings would be mixed with the water chant/undersea chant we know from Fall '67 and Psychedelic Sounds. And possibly this flighty piano theme people keep bringing up for Air could accompany the Breathing skit. That could even be the Second Day version of Dada with the flutes and breathing going on in the background. I think that could be cool. There are versions of Fire with the crinkling sound effects to sound like a real fire, and the oooo vocalizations. I know those are from Fall Breaks, but they fit perfectly and its not a stretch to think they were originally planned. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 08:54:35 PM by Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard » Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #328 on: January 02, 2016, 08:40:00 PM »

Something has always made me wonder about the transition from "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" into "The Water Chant" and then into "I Love To Say Dada" (or "In Blue Hawaii"). Several fan mixes, including Darian Sahanaja's, goes from the fire into "The Water Chant" and then into more water (i.e. the ocean). And that's what never made sense to me.

"Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" is a barn burning down and, I guess, firemen coming to the rescue. I'm assuming "The Water Chant" - even though it was recorded during the Wild Honey sessions - is the water putting the fire out? But then, we go from putting out a barn fire on a farm into sailing on the ocean? As soon as the fire is extinguished, he ends up in the cool, cool water of the ocean. That's quite a leap. Literally.

Like I usually do, I'm sure I'm putting too much lyrically and literally into this sequence, but it also makes me wonder what Brian was planning in 1966-67. What "water" would've he followed "fire" with, or whatever order he chose? Would've he "put out the fire" with water, or, would've he recorded some form of water - just to include it as part of an element, or The Elements?
So...yeah. Why does Water follow Fire? In almost any scenario I can think of its because ... where else could it go? Simple as that really.

Agree. In almost any scenario, water would follow fire. But the questions remain, for me anyway:

1) Was the water following the fire intended to "put out the fire" or just be used as a "water sample", an element if you will?

2) What recordings did Brian have for both "putting out the fire" and/or just as a "water sample "?  Certainly that "Underwater/swim swim" chant wouldn't be used as water putting out a fire, but I guess it could've served as an element only.

But, again, if Brian follows the burning down of a barn with an underwater/swim,swim chant, that's a little bizarre.
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« Reply #329 on: January 02, 2016, 08:48:39 PM »

Something has always made me wonder about the transition from "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" into "The Water Chant" and then into "I Love To Say Dada" (or "In Blue Hawaii"). Several fan mixes, including Darian Sahanaja's, goes from the fire into "The Water Chant" and then into more water (i.e. the ocean). And that's what never made sense to me.

"Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" is a barn burning down and, I guess, firemen coming to the rescue. I'm assuming "The Water Chant" - even though it was recorded during the Wild Honey sessions - is the water putting the fire out? But then, we go from putting out a barn fire on a farm into sailing on the ocean? As soon as the fire is extinguished, he ends up in the cool, cool water of the ocean. That's quite a leap. Literally.

Like I usually do, I'm sure I'm putting too much lyrically and literally into this sequence, but it also makes me wonder what Brian was planning in 1966-67. What "water" would've he followed "fire" with, or whatever order he chose? Would've he "put out the fire" with water, or, would've he recorded some form of water - just to include it as part of an element, or The Elements?
So...yeah. Why does Water follow Fire? In almost any scenario I can think of its because ... where else could it go? Simple as that really.

Agree. In almost any scenario, water would follow fire. But the questions remain, for me anyway:

1) Was the water following the fire intended to "put out the fire" or just be used as a "water sample", an element if you will?

2) What recordings did Brian have for both "putting out the fire" and/or just as a "water sample "?  Certainly that "Underwater/swim swim" chant wouldn't be used as water putting out a fire, but I guess it could've served as an element only.

But, again, if Brian follows the burning down of a barn with an underwater/swim,swim chant, that's a little bizarre.

Just bumping the thread to tell you I edited my post to answer these questions. I was doing so before I saw you replied
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #330 on: January 02, 2016, 09:16:14 PM »

In every SMiLE mix I ever made, I put that damn fire out, always using "The Water Chant" first, followed by "I Love To Say Dada", but sometimes using the short version of "Cool, Cool Water" instead. Then I got to thinking, we know Brian didn't put the fire out with "The Water Chant" because he hadn't even recorded it yet. And, I've seen a lot of evidence (on this board!) that "I Love To Say Dada" has nothing to do with water anyway.

So, tonight I tried making my first SMiLE mix without putting the fire out. I started with "Wind Chimes" and proceeded with the bells and whistles (even though that's not right either, it's actually the "Intro To Heroes And Villains"), and continued with "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". AND I ENDED IT RIGHT THERE WITH THE DRUMS AND SIRENS FADING. I burned that barn down to the ground. No water. I kind of like the effect; it's more dramatic. I actually like the silence at the end of the fire.

Now I have to figure out what to put after all of that! Cheesy   
 
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« Reply #331 on: January 02, 2016, 10:07:22 PM »

In every SMiLE mix I ever made, I put that damn fire out, always using "The Water Chant" first, followed by "I Love To Say Dada", but sometimes using the short version of "Cool, Cool Water" instead. Then I got to thinking, we know Brian didn't put the fire out with "The Water Chant" because he hadn't even recorded it yet. And, I've seen a lot of evidence (on this board!) that "I Love To Say Dada" has nothing to do with water anyway.

So, tonight I tried making my first SMiLE mix without putting the fire out. I started with "Wind Chimes" and proceeded with the bells and whistles (even though that's not right either, it's actually the "Intro To Heroes And Villains"), and continued with "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". AND I ENDED IT RIGHT THERE WITH THE DRUMS AND SIRENS FADING. I burned that barn down to the ground. No water. I kind of like the effect; it's more dramatic. I actually like the silence at the end of the fire.

Now I have to figure out what to put after all of that! Cheesy   
 

I think if we had the Water recordings we would have our answer, or the means to construct a plausible one for ourselves anyway. Again I reiterate, the undersea chant is undeniably the precursor to the Water Chant--and in my opinion its far superior. I get what youre saying that those coming on right after the fire would be kinda jarring. But I can see some water sounds fading in and building up as the vocals come in. Kinda like with Fire.

This is what I followed Fire with in my very first SMiLE Mix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVlSxY3PsoU Its not linked in my signature, so please do check it out even if youve heard my others. That might be something to consider. I forgot to explore the possibility of Workshop as Earth in my last post. But yeah, if you go that route (which I think it just as plausible as Veggies as Earth, and what I used in my Olorin Mix) then it opens up more freedom to explore. In that case, Workshop could directly precede or follow Fire. It could come after Water which follows Fire.

In fact, youve got me thinking to try this new sequence: Breating/Fire/Undersea/Workshop

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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #332 on: January 03, 2016, 10:20:09 AM »

In every SMiLE mix I ever made, I put that damn fire out, always using "The Water Chant" first, followed by "I Love To Say Dada", but sometimes using the short version of "Cool, Cool Water" instead. Then I got to thinking, we know Brian didn't put the fire out with "The Water Chant" because he hadn't even recorded it yet. And, I've seen a lot of evidence (on this board!) that "I Love To Say Dada" has nothing to do with water anyway.

So, tonight I tried making my first SMiLE mix without putting the fire out. I started with "Wind Chimes" and proceeded with the bells and whistles (even though that's not right either, it's actually the "Intro To Heroes And Villains"), and continued with "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". AND I ENDED IT RIGHT THERE WITH THE DRUMS AND SIRENS FADING. I burned that barn down to the ground. No water. I kind of like the effect; it's more dramatic. I actually like the silence at the end of the fire.

Now I have to figure out what to put after all of that! Cheesy  
 

OK...Like the thread title says...for the fun of it... Cheesy

Forget historical correctness (that's impossible anyway), forget BWPS (don't get me started on that), and forget what most people do (because that's always in flux, too). I came up with this due to boredom with the conventional sequence I've been using for years, and because I think this sounds cool! I like the somber mood, the spirituality, and I had to break up "The Water Chant"/"I Love To say Dada". Elements? What elements?

- go with "Wind Chimes", in the late afternoon, the sun is going down, the lamp is lit in the barn, we're nearing the end of the mix

- the cow kicked over the lamp and the fire is started...now use "Intro To Heroes And Villains" or AKA the bass/piano/whistles; for 40 seconds

- the fire is blazing, go to "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", let the barn continue burning, to the ground...let the track end with the crackling of the fire, the sirens fading, and the drums tailing off

- OK, the fire is over, the barn has completely burned to the ground, columnated ruins domino, there is silence as the family, neighbors, and firemen gather around, surveying the ruins

- wait 5 or 6 seconds and use that organ drone or the final 29 seconds of the "Workshop Sounds" (Smile Sessions-Disc 3); it almost sounds like a funeral ( pyre?), with the organ playing solemnly as the people pay their respects.

- After the organ is finished playing, it's time for a group prayer - "Our Prayer". I usually use "Our Prayer" here (2nd last song) anyway; I start my mix with "You're Welcome".

- end the mix with "Surf's Up"... the glass was raised, the fired toast, the fullness of the wine, the dim LAST TOASTING...You want water? Here's your water. Surf's Up! police
« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 10:32:36 AM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
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« Reply #333 on: January 04, 2016, 07:51:02 AM »

Actually the ancient elements do follow an order, from heavy to light that would be earth - water - air - fire. That's the way I do it. The last drum hits put out the fire, IMHO no need to follow it with water.
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« Reply #334 on: January 04, 2016, 10:39:32 AM »

Actually the ancient elements do follow an order, from heavy to light that would be earth - water - air - fire. That's the way I do it. The last drum hits put out the fire, IMHO no need to follow it with water.

May I ask which songs/segments you are presently using for your "The Elements"? Is it still Vegetables/I Love To Say Dada/Wind Chimes/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow? I kinda like that. Or, have you made any recent changes?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 11:32:09 AM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
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« Reply #335 on: January 05, 2016, 01:30:59 AM »

Actually the ancient elements do follow an order, from heavy to light that would be earth - water - air - fire. That's the way I do it. The last drum hits put out the fire, IMHO no need to follow it with water.

May I ask which songs/segments you are presently using for your "The Elements"? Is it still Vegetables/I Love To Say Dada/Wind Chimes/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow? I kinda like that. Or, have you made any recent changes?

Yes, by default - using what's available, and the best way to fit both LTSDD and especially WC. Before BWPS, I used Look (earth) - LTSDD (water) - Holidays (air) - MOLC. Wind Chimes was sticking out like a thumb in any of those line-ups, not belonging to any of the three "circles", not Americana, not childhood, not Elements.

I've constructed my own V-T, which I had already posted on here, so if you have already listened to it, there's no changes, but here's the link again: Vega-Tables
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« Reply #336 on: January 07, 2016, 12:57:42 AM »

Heres a cool little article I found tonight while I was digging for Part II of the Crawdaddy interview with Anderle. I had a newfound motivation to find a scan of that somewhere online, with the newfound flak I was getting for not reading it yet. Anyway, here it is: http://www.people.carleton.edu/~aflory/Smile.pdf I dont know if itll tell anyone here anything they dont already know, but its very all inclusive and provides tracklistings to the official releases and some prominent bootlegs for comparisons sake, as well as a good summary of SMiLE and its legacy. Its 31 pages and a cited, scholarly article from a reputable source. Thought that was pretty cool.

BUT perhaps more important...wouldnt you know it guys, I found scans for the issue with part 2 of the interview! Here's where I found them in case anyone else gets flak for not reading them yet: http://www.vistaservices.com/crawdaddy/page2.html I know scans of the Vosse article are floating around too, but I dont have the link handy. And I posted this elsewhere, but should you need to read Goodbye Surfing Hello God: https://read.atavist.com/goodbye-surfing-hello-god?no-overlay&preview

Now, Im gonna go over my thoughts on Crawdaddy Part II in this post, then make a second for GSHG. If anyone's curious what my thoughts are on the Vosse Fusion article or parts 1 and 3 of the Crawdaddy piece, theyre earlier in this thread. The reason Im doing these in depth dissections is because I want to prove that, while these 3 important primary sources are very interesting and have a lot of good info, its info Id already gotten before second hand from this board and other websites or articles, probably passed down from these original sources. So while I condone reading them for yourself, I think its ridiculous to look down your nose at someone and essentially scoff at their input just because they havent read these particular sources yet. As was the case in the last three posts, nothing in those articles I reviewed disproved anything I had said about SMiLE, and in fact much of what Vosse and Anderle had to say supported my theories. Let's see if thats the case now, for Crawdaddy Part II...

1-Right of the bat, Anderle mentions how Brian would begin projects as a concept, an idea, and itd be hard to understand what he meant. Hed have the guys record a feel and they wouldnt even know what he wanted, like the big picture, but would just follow his lead. He mentions how Pet Sounds didnt start off as some unified concept, he just worked on musical feels as they came to him. "What started as the first song may become part of the sixth" which seems to lend credence to Vosse's testimony of certain songs like CE and Worms juggling sections between themselves for awhile before settling on the structures we know today. He mentions how the lyrics come later and are worked around a big idea he wants to express and the titles come later--in fact, according to Anderle, the titles dont mean anything. Hmm...wonder what that means for the significance of Vega-Tables weird spelling, and oblique titles like Do You Like Worms or Mrs OLearys Cow and Second Day?

2-Something that potentially calls Anderle's credibility into question, he says Pet Sounds is when Brian gave up on touring, when as far as I know it was actually a year earlier, with Today. He also says Pet Sounds comes from the dogs at the end, when we all know Mike Love came up with the title  LOL and others have said it comes from Phil Spector's initials and the idea these are Brian's favorite sounds. Its obviously a double meaning either way, but what came first? According to Anderle, the dog sound effects.

3-When it comes to SMiLE, Anderle claims Brian described it as a monument. Part of the problem, he says, is Brian would get an idea at 4 in the morning and want to record it immediately. This wasnt possible when you have to book studio time. This explains the desire for a home studio, even if it produced more lo-fi records.

4-He mentions Van and Brian blowing each others minds, but how he knew even then theyd never work together. Not productively anyway. He describes their parting as tragic and asserts that they didnt want to seperate but both knew they had to. He cites the split at February and says Van was too sophisticated and Brian not enough.

5-He describes SMiLE as the culmination of all Brian's intellectual pursuits at the time, including the Elements. He says they all knew what Fire would be, and water, had some idea of air, no mention of Earth. This, to me personally, casts doubt on the idea that Veggies was Earth. It would make sense that if it was, it wouldve been very easy and very probable for Brian to just say that to Anderle and everyone. The fact that he didnt--and of course, that its a seperate track on the list--makes me skeptical. This also all but confirms then that Wind Chimes isnt Air for the same reasons as well as the lack of a Frank Holmes esque bit of evidence. Same with the idea of Surfs Up as Water. In fact, I think Anderle's testimony is further evidence against any kind of elements suite of standalone songs. My hunch is still for Psychedelic Sounds, with my speculation being he specifically named Undersea Chant as his idea for water to them. The fact that this was rerecorded with the Boys as the Water Chant later corroborates this. I would supposed Breathing was an idea for Air but either he wasnt satisfied with it or never said to them "this'll be air" so while they had a pretty good idea it was, there was no confirmation in that case. And Earth was just never worked on, or never written. Speculative? Yes. But far more likely than Veggies and WC being elements, based on the evidence. The real answer is we will never hear what the other 3 elements will ever be, which is pretty much all Ive been saying this whole time.

6-He lists friction on all fronts at once killing the album. He cites the issue with Fire as the first sign of real trouble. Then reiterates studio time, VDP and trouble with engineers as big causes of strife. He also, notably lists the ideas of Brother Records and getting into films as excuses and procrastination. Now THIS is interesting to me, because up until then I had thought of these projects as happening at the same time. I envisioned from Vosse, a Brian at the top of his powers trying to branch out into all at once. Im not 100% sure who to believe, since Anderle has a few issues where he comes off as not entirely reliable, and yet Vosse would be biased because he was involved with the film aspect and itd be both hard for him to realize his project as just a distraction as well as embarrassing to admit if true. Anyway, he comes back at the end to reiterate that VDP cancelling on him was the main reason; he didnt know how to make lyrics that would fit with what had been written.

7-That being said, he goes into detail about how the Beach Boys resisted him heavily when they came back. He doesnt hold that against them, since he mentions there was no way to know what Brian was doing was the right thing since they were only hearing fragments out of context and no one had done music that sounded like it before. He mentions how they wasted a whole week trying to get Mike to sing a song the way Brian wanted, but he couldnt, so Brian did it instead. He specifically says that had they warmed up to it in time, SMiLE wouldve been finished. So once again, anyone saying all Mike did was innocently ask about lyrics once or twice are spitting in the face of history. He and VDP fought too, and the collapse is much more complex than "Mike killed SMiLE" but it doesnt change the fact that the Beach Boys themselves were still very unsupportive. Period.
^Later on in the interview, he goes back to this point and reiterates that their relationship was NEVER good during SMiLE. He also states that if anything was going on in his life, Brian would NOT be functional in the studio then. He then returns to this point AGAIN to say in no uncertain terms, that the fact they didnt get it is a huge reason the album was never finished. It really doesnt get any simpler than that. Except if you needed more, he goes on a whole spiel even later in the interview about how Mike fought all experimentation, how he was the one Brian couldnt relate to or control, and how they both had totally different mindsets.

8-He stresses how important Heroes was going to be for the original form of the album, how hard and defeating it was trying to maintain an air of positivity with a lawsuit and all other bullshit going on, and how Brian was told he needed to have a single. He says it was necessary for Brother, and that this new project and the burdens of Brother killed the creative vibes. He mentions them growing apart as he had to take on business responsibilities and wasnt fun to talk to anymore. He claims Heroes was only chosen as a single because it was the closest thing to being finished, again conflicting Vosse and conventional wisdom on the subject.

9-Once again, Anderle calls his account into question when he not only claims CIFOTM will come out on the next album (which would be Friends by this time I believe--perhaps hes confusing Little Bird?) but that Bicycle Rider was originally part of Vega-Tables. Hmmm....

10-He says Brian never wanted to put GV, a single, on the album. Hes referring to Smiley, but the way its phrased it could possibly mean SMiLE too. Once again, Hmmm....

11-Admittedly, he talks about the humor album as if it were a seperate thing. And says Smiley was perhaps an attempt to merge the two ideas. I admit this is a strike against my theory of Psychedelic Sounds skits on SMiLE. Still, the Cantina Edit, Brian's own contemporaneous interviews, Vosse's (more reliable) account, and other evidence makes me doubt this. Besides, Anderle's account has proven to be at least a little shaky on other counts. Still worth pointing out, of course.
^He takes a negative view of things like recording water and trying to start a bar fight. He sees these as distractions as well, similar to the films idea.

12-Here as well, he takes a very negative view of Wild Honey. If I recall correctly, he praises it by part 3. Again, calling into question his credibility. If he does a 180 on that in a month, whos to say his opinions, recollections and thoughts on something that happened a year ago by this time havent also changed dramatically?

13-He calls Marilyn a saint and the perfect artists wife for what she puts up with from Brian. Hardly the cow that hampered his growth at every turn that ol Daro described.

14-Anderle mentions Brian talked openly about breaking up the group. He speculates that after Smiley and WH bombed that Brian probably knows deep down it was the right thing to do.

So...good to know all the interesting SMiLE stuff WAS in the second part Grin Anderle differs from Vosse on several points and its hard if not impossible to say who's right. I tend to side with Vosse because as I said there are points were we know Anderle is objectively wrong, and where his views get inconsistent. Aside from one brief suggestion that the humor album and SMiLE were seperate, once again NOTHING he says contradicts anything Ive said. In fact, most of it supports my theories/summations of SMiLE and the Sessions. So...yeah. Really dont appreciate the holier-than-thou attitude from some people when the very articles they cite as the end all be all only coincide with what Ive been saying all along.

Im too tired to post a dissection of GSHG right now but I will tomorrow.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 12:58:42 AM by Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard » Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #337 on: January 07, 2016, 08:03:11 AM »

Hi guys! I'm an italian musician and producer and I love smile and Brian Wilson works in a very unexplainable way Smiley
I'm very proud of a personal smile reconstruction that i did a couple of years ago. I did it for a very simple pleasure and purpose; to make it more fluid and complete of the version we have until that day, so the love i feel for this album can be transmitted, to people near to me that don't know it.. It's unbeleivable but a lot of people don't know this master concept album.. Sad
 So i used a few things of the 2003 version to make some song complete, i remixed all.  I love smile because it's a great album with a prpose bigger of the technology of the time Smiley
Soon i'll upload it on the tube. If you wanna listen to it, this is an old emule link. it still works!

ed2k://|file|(D4Nk4.IT)%20Beach%20Boys%20-%20A%20personal%20%20Smile%20reconstruction_%202014.rar|66028895|FF220110E4F090C4CCE6AD50B4636D85|h=SQH5DRA4H2XATQ2FFS33FZXXTA7FPRZ7|/

Sorry for language mistakes...
Nice to meet you guy!
Dan
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« Reply #338 on: January 07, 2016, 08:43:30 AM »

This also all but confirms then that Wind Chimes isnt Air for the same reasons as well as the lack of a Frank Holmes esque bit of evidence. Same with the idea of Surfs Up as Water. In fact, I think Anderle's testimony is further evidence against any kind of elements suite of standalone songs.

Who was claiming Wind Chimes was air in 1966? I must have ocerlooked that. They decided to use WC as air for BWPS to make a suite of standalone songs, a wise decision given the material they had, and that's what Brian seemingly wasn't able to back then: making final decisions. Until he decided to scrap it.
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Ceterum censeo SMiLEBrianum OSDumque esse excludendos banno.
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« Reply #339 on: January 07, 2016, 08:46:58 AM »

Mujan,

I always appreciate your posts, but i think the sentiment towards researching primary sources vs. secondary sources will provide the closest perspective to the creation/development of SMiLE. Glad you are learning and exploring more.

Rather than quote your whole body of text, a few points:

2 - After years pass and public perception/reaction to art replaces an artist's original intent, i can see why Anderle made such a statement. I am wary of any speaking in absolutes, as reality is dynamic, SMiLE is dynamic. I don't see how you can make a  "false in one, false in all" to discredit a primary source, especially when discussing a creative development.  That said, Mike Love has said "We had taken pictures at the zoo and ... there were animal sounds on the record, and we were thinking, well, it's our favorite music of that time, so I said, 'Why don't we call it Pet Sounds?'"...which i might add AGD/Elliott have discredited due to the timing of the pictures being taken/naming of the album. Also, it is not obvious (as you suggested) that Pet Sounds has a double meaning. Sure it could, but again you are speaking in absolutes. Memories fade and become fuzzy over time, and people sometimes have agendas. it is what it is.

5 - again, the thinking in absolutes is killing the understanding of the original dynamic nature of the creation process. SMiLE was not written out in skeleton/outline form then executed, it was dynamic/modular. As the Psycodelic sounds (elemental chants) suggest they were embryonic ideas of the Elements...that's it. I don't think you can read more into it than that. Perhaps Brian knew he wanted one of the elements to be a chant and was playing around with that concept to see which element that would be best for?  Brain was in a mode of recording as much as he could, but that is not the same as saying everything he recorded was intended for the finished product.  Anderle and Vosse were part of those sessions and Brian even says on tape that he should rerecord this with the BBs. Also, regarding VT, if the theory that VT was at one time part of the Elements, but spun off into it's own track holds true, i would be just as unsure as Anderle what the Earth fragment was actually going to be on the final product. That doesn't negate the possibility that VT is related/part of the Elements or it isn't. Again, the creative process is DYNAMIC, Brian's approach was modular. Same thing with Air. I think in light of Anderle and Vosse's statements on Air, that a section of wind chimes was at least considered/auditioned to be the air element.

9 - I think it is very telling that Anderle mentions CIFOTM will be on the next record. Anderle would have likely only heard the acetates of CIFOTM (likely with no verse vox) and for him to hear a rerecord of the instrumental or have a conversation rwith someone regarding the use of the CIFOTM in new BBs music (little bird), i can totally see why he said that. I don't see how you feel that diminishes his credibility. If anything it suggests he remained somewhat close by the BBs circle/in the know in the months after he left. Also, i don't understand why you are making a point of Bicycle Rider being part of VT at one time. BR was the whore segment of SMiLE, it made its way on to sooooo much (DYLW, HV, Wonderful(SS), and YES it was part of VT (on the fade)!!!! If Anderle was with Brian in the springtime and Brian was playing VT on his piano, what else would the fade sound like, if not BR?!?!?

10 - several of these interviews (required reading) suggests Brian did not want a single on the album, he wanted the album to be the album. I believe that is why you are reading conflicting reports regarding Good Vibes, HV, VT, 10-song SMILE, etc. It is more likely, the business side of things/politics overruled some of Brian's original intentions.

11 - Your statements suggest researching deeper would provide some clarity. A creative often juggles multiple ideas to arrive at a finished product, again the dynamic nature of things. Brian was obviously into humor and laugther during this time, but i don't think anyone including Brian would think it would be practical to merge comedy and SMIlLE into one project. As suggested by Vosse, Anderle, as well as a simple look at a calendar, Brian was sometimes all over the place with his ideas and creative outlets simultaneously (films, redwood, jasper, carl/dennis sessions, psycodelic sounds, water recording, bar fights, etc.). There is no way to definitely determine whether or not certain tangents were going to be part of SMiLE, another album, another project, laying down ideas to remember/hear objectively, etc.

12 - Wouldn't you too be disappointed with SS and WH if you were at ground zero during the SMiLE months? tastes change, context changes. There's plenty of music i did not like upon first listen, but liked more upon subsequent listens. Again, don't see why you are so trigger happy to discredit sources.

13 - Daro was more of an enabler, while Anderle had a business/vested interest in Brian. Of course they would have differening opinions of Marilyn. I take it you are not married?

Lastly, i am curious why you feel Workshop is as plausible as VT as the Earth element in light of reading more primary sources. Vosse's comments alone basically negate that notion. There is MUCH stronger connection to HV/IIGS/Barnyard Suite than anything elemental. The only source suggesting workshop being elemental is Carol Kaye, which considering your quickness to discredit sources, should not be taken seriously. I believe her comment (on tape) was her light hearted take on the chronological tracking sessions (Fire/Friday Night recorded back to back days). That said, i would not rule out BW comically stating such during that session either... it seemed like a loose/fun session, they started with the jazz improv afterall then banged away on tools.  It is more circumstantial if anything.  
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« Reply #340 on: January 07, 2016, 10:07:59 AM »

This also all but confirms then that Wind Chimes isnt Air for the same reasons as well as the lack of a Frank Holmes esque bit of evidence. Same with the idea of Surfs Up as Water. In fact, I think Anderle's testimony is further evidence against any kind of elements suite of standalone songs.

Who was claiming Wind Chimes was air in 1966? I must have ocerlooked that. They decided to use WC as air for BWPS to make a suite of standalone songs, a wise decision given the material they had, and that's what Brian seemingly wasn't able to back then: making final decisions. Until he decided to scrap it.

I agree with you, but there' are others who believe that a four song elements was always the plan and that's who I'm referring to with that point
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
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« Reply #341 on: January 07, 2016, 10:20:31 AM »

Just a thought:  I don't think water need follow fire, as the fire is put out in the fire song itself.  That final "boom boom boom" of the drum, representing the collapsing walls or whatever, that's the fire being put out.  On the session tapes you even hear Brian instructing the drummer to "put that fire out" on that last bit.   
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« Reply #342 on: January 07, 2016, 11:11:46 AM »

2-Im NOT making a false one, false in all attempt to discriminate anyone. But I do think its important to point out when a source contradicts the conventionally accepted narrative. I thought it was pretty obvious I was joking about mike naming the album, hence the laughing emoticon. I dont see why its worth getting hung up on the point of the album name having a double meaning. It has at least 2, sometimes 3, commonly accepted meanings to people. Thats worth pointing out and I dont see the point of making a note of contention about it. Im aware people have agendas and faults in their memory...and I think I made that point about Vosse and his films, and how that conflicts with Anderle's account.

5-Thats possible. But then, arent you also reading into what you want to see? I reiterate what Anderle said, and speculated what I thought it most likely meant. I even called it speculation. So...Im not sure what youre getting at. Youre doing the exact same with the narrative youre constructing. Youre not telling me anything I dont already know/have already said regarding the idea of rerecording some of those chants with the BBs. I even mentioned that in the post youre replying to, that the Undersea Chant later became the Water Chant. And Ive stated numerous times in the past that I believe the PS skits represent working ideas he wouldve done better once the BBs came back from Europe. Doesnt it stand to reason tho, that if VT was at one point the Earth, then Anderle would mention that? I think youre making a big leap here. Its one thing to say he knew what two would be, had an idea for the third...and thats where it ended. That implies the fourth, Earth, was never even started. And its quite another to say "he had an idea for Earth at one point but then changed his mind" and had the latter scenario been the case, isnt it likely he would mention that idea was VT? He mentions the track at another point, so he was obviously familiar with it. I admit this is speculative analysis on my part, but no more than the scenario youve come up with. I really dont see how you can take away that Wind Chimes was Air from what Anderle and Vosse said. Thats quite a reach, imho. Ive read both now, and do not recall anything from either source that even remotely suggests that whatsoever. If Im missing something, please show me what passages specifically led you to that conclusion.

9-I put forth that very scenario in my original post, so once again, I dont understand why you feel the need to reiterate the point. Its another point where he diverges from what we know to be true. Its not a case of "he got one thing wrong, he doesnt know anything" but it IS something worth pointing out to show that, yes, he knows a lot--he was there. But he's not perfect. Its an example of how just because he says it, doesnt make it so. How does it suggest that? To me, it suggests the opposite, that he lost contact with the big guys calling the shots (in this case, Brian and Dennis) and was only getting second hand, flawed info from that point on.

First of all, why are you shouting? Calm down, man. And second, its worth pointing out because the BR chorus was never part of VT to our knowledge. Ive heard of it being in HV, Worms, even CE but this is the first Ive ever heard of it in VT. Does that mean Anderle has no idea what hes talking about? No. But its another area where his info contradicts what most other sources say and is worth pointing out. Frankly, I dont understand why youre getting so upset at me pointing out where our narrators differ. Thats kind of an important thing to point out, would you not say? Was BR the fade to VT? It doesnt sound like it to me, but for the hundredth time I confess Im not musically trained. So if its the same chords or something, some modulation of it, I was incorrect and apologize. But I do have to say if thats the case Im surprised no one has pointed this out before. Once again, theres no need for the exclamation points.

10-Fair enough. I do know Brian himself said GV and Heroes would be on the album tho, so for now at least Im just gonna assume thats the case. The way Anderle worded it in here thru me off, is all.

11-Yes, thats understandable, the points about dynamics. Im not so sure you can say 100% Brian wouldnt have had humor on SMiLE. For one, as you say, both Anderle and Vosse go on and on about the importance of humor to him during the SMiLE Era. Anderle says SMiLE was to be a celebration of all his creative pursuits at this time, which would presumably include humor. Vosse mentions how he believed that humor helped you learn too, that by laughing you made yourself vulnerable and open to be enlightened. Then there's Brian saying spoken word humor would be a part of the album, there the Cantina Edit of Heroes, and saying hes gonna have a lot of talking in the pauses of All Day. I understand why so many are skeptical about the idea of some of the humorous skits included in some way, and I fully acknowledge Anderle's testimony seems to be a strike against it. But I think its foolish to discount the idea entirely considering there's so much evidence with or without Anderle to support it. Brian WASNT thinking in terms of practicality and anyone reading Vosse and Anerle should know that. The guy wasnt attending business meetings, was getting up at 1 in the morning and trying to get in the studio by 5, smoking hash in a tent, building a sandbox and slide in his house and wanted to hold business meetings in the pool. Thats the opposite of practicality. BUT, even if this humor album was a whole seperate concept...its undeniable that it was linked with SMiLE. Fighting about Vegetables, falling in horns and pianos, skits where they act like kids, a taxi driver who specifically mentions Chicago... theres a lot of crossover into the themes and ideas of SMiLE. Some arent, but those are like the Bobs Trip and others, which arent funny or fully realized ideas anyway. I think its far more likely that the PS were an attempt to record material they could use for SMiLE and perhaps other future projects too. In them we hear working ideas for the elements*, weird collages of sound effects captured like Basketball sounds and others, and comedy skits. Obviously very little of this would ever make the cut in a real SMiLE, but considering all we've heard from Van, Anderle and others about sound effects on SMiLE, doesnt it stand to reason some of those are contained within PS? He had sound effects on Pet Sounds, so thats really not that far fetched. And with all the talk of humor from Brian, Anderle and Vosse, is it REALLY that hard to fathom a funny skit about vegetables JUST MIGHT have been an idea for the album--at least at one point? Unlike you, I also think the evidence from both Vosse and Anderle more clearly suggests those elements chants as working ideas for the elements that never got officially recorded in the case of Air and only much later and in a less ornate arrangement in the case of Water. So maybe not all or even most of it was ever meant for SMiLE, but it stands to reason at least some of it was. If not, then this humor album mustve been a SMiLE II with recurring themes from that album or something, because seriously it all draws from the same batch of ideas.

12-Yeah. In fact, I hated Smiley on first listen and still dislike most of WH. Seriously tho, Im not trigger happy and what a weird thing to say. But again, its worth pointing out when our source contradicts themselves, dont you think? I mean...really? Even if theres a plausible explanation, when someone goes from saying they hate WH and Brian has given up, he probably knows deep down he shouldve killed the group instead of SMiLE, to saying they really like WH and Brian must be so happy, and he must be moving on to bigger and better things, etc the very next month...thats a BIG change. And if I recall correctly, he himself never explains it. He never says "upon further listening, I really like WH" or anything--unless I missed it or am misremembering. Whether you think thats totally reasonable for him to change his mind so drastically or not is fine, but its absolutely worth pointing out in any case.

12-Yeah I know. I just cant help myself from taking a shot at that guy whenever possible  Tongue Thats not a dig at Anderle's credibility but at his.

I'm of the opinion Earth doesnt exist. I used Workshop as Earth in one of my mixes because its one of the best things we have available to use, no more and no less. I used VT in a newer one because I have to admit, while there is a lot of evidence it was never an element, theres a lot that suggests it couldve been too and I wanted to see how it worked. Until recently, like the past year, I was of the opinion that NONE of the other elements existed, but a closer look at the Psychedelic Sounds changed my mind. I just think its very peculiar that we have what is undeniably a precursor to the Water Chant, and something in that style that conveys Air better than WC or anything else I can think of, and nobody to my knowledge has ever brought them up before. The fact that we have those two corroborates what Vosse and Anderle said about the Elements too, and not to be an ass about it, but for the life of me I dont understand how someone can still push this WC is Air agenda even after all this to the contrary. WC was officially recorded, and its not called an Element on the tracklist or tapes or on the session chatter. VT isnt either, tho admittedly theres some other compelling evidence for it anyway. Im getting off track...but yeah. Just so its clear, as far as Im concerned, Fire is Fire. The other 3 were never finished or officially worked on, but Undersea Chant and Breathing represent the best we have of what they couldve been from the sessions. Earth doesnt exist. If one buys into the VT theory (Im on the fence) they can use that if theyre so inclined. But if you think having an instrumental and two a capellas followed by a fully developed song sounds out of place, you can use Workshop because it fits. Boom.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 11:18:41 AM by Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard » Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
Nile
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« Reply #343 on: January 07, 2016, 11:17:03 AM »

Hi guys! I'm an italian musician and producer and I love smile and Brian Wilson works in a very unexplainable way Smiley
I'm very proud of a personal smile reconstruction that i did a couple of years ago. I did it for a very simple pleasure and purpose; to make it more fluid and complete of the version we have until that day, so the love i feel for this album can be transmitted, to people near to me that don't know it.. It's unbeleivable but a lot of people don't know this master concept album.. Sad
 So i used a few things of the 2003 version to make some song complete, i remixed all.  I love smile because it's a great album with a prpose bigger of the technology of the time Smiley
Soon i'll upload it on the tube. If you wanna listen to it, this is an old emule link. it still works!

ed2k://|file|(D4Nk4.IT)%20Beach%20Boys%20-%20A%20personal%20%20Smile%20reconstruction_%202014.rar|66028895|FF220110E4F090C4CCE6AD50B4636D85|h=SQH5DRA4H2XATQ2FFS33FZXXTA7FPRZ7|/

Sorry for language mistakes...
Nice to meet you guy!

uote]

Hey this link doesn't work!
Please again!
Tnx!
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« Reply #344 on: January 07, 2016, 01:16:21 PM »

Ok, so now unto dissecting Goodbye Surfing, Hello God.

1-So...did Brian actually destroy the master of Fire? Vosse, Anderle, and now this all agree on that. So if thats the case, how are we listening to Fire now? Is it just a rejected take? I wonder what was missing from the master then.

2-I gotta say, all this talk about hipness, hip people do this, un-hip people do that, etc is pretty off-putting. Just an observation.

3-Its really cool to see where classic quotes originated from, like: “About a year ago I had what I consider a very religious experience,” Wilson told Los Angeles writer Tom Nolan in 1966. “I took LSD, a full dose of LSD, and later, another time, I took a smaller dose. And I learned a lot of things, like patience, understanding. I can’t teach you or tell you what I learned from taking it, but I consider it a very religious experience.”

4-This quote took me by surprise: “I think this London thing has really helped. That’s just what the boys needed, a little attention to jack up their confidence.”
^It seems that the enthusiastic response is what emboldened them against too much experimentation, so it seems he would regret those words.

5- Another passage that grabbed me: "Brian shuffled through the acetates, most of which were unlabeled, identifying each by subtle differences in the patterns of the grooves. He had played them so often he knew the special look of each record the way you know the key to your front door by the shape of its teeth. Most were instrumental tracks, cut while the Beach Boys were in Europe, and for these Brian supplied the vocal in a high sound that seemed to come out of his head rather than his throat as he somehow managed to create complicated four- and five-part harmonies with only his own voice."
^Its too late now, but how I wish someone had written down what he sang!

6-"A panorama of American history filled the room as the music shifted from theme to theme; the tinkling harpsichord sounds of the bicycle rider pushed sad Indian sounds across the continent; the Iron Horse pounded across the plains in a wide-open rolling rhythm that summoned up visions of the Old West; civilized chickens bobbed up and down in a tiny ballet of comic barnyard melody; the inexorable bicycle music, cold and charming as an infinitely talented music box, reappeared and faded away."
^I dont know if hes describing what he heard exactly or just exaggerating to paint a scene, but to me this seems like further proof of the idea of suites, in this case, Americana. And seems to point to the idea of recurring themes, at least BR. Maybe thats because it wasnt finished and was still in more songs than it was meant to be, or else the BR really was meant to come up more than once. Not sure how I feel about that. Also, he specifically mentions Prayer being last. Is that just because it happened to be the last one Brian played, or a clue it was the last song, the choral amen Vosse mentions?

7-Who was supposed to write the Saturday Evening Post Story?? Was that person ever interviewed at length?

8-Here again, a mention of Brian accusing the boys of not trying hard enough and Mike making too much money.

9- “It’s a man at a concert,” he said. “All around him there’s the audience, playing their roles, dressed up in fancy clothes, looking through opera glasses, but so far away from the drama, from life—‘Back through the opera glass you see the pit and the pendulum drawn.’”

“The music begins to take over. ‘Columnated ruins domino.’ Empires, ideas, lives, institutions—everything has to fall, tumbling like dominoes.

“He begins to awaken to the music; sees the pretentiousness of everything. ‘The music hall a costly bow.’ Then even the music is gone, turned into a trumpeter swan, into what the music really is.
^I have to say, its cool to hear him explain SU in his own way. I consider that last sentence more proof that SU was supposed to end with trumpets--that wailing trumpet sound from Talking Horns. I understand people being partial to the '71 fade, but I firmly believe those trumpets were meant to go there, especially after reading this.

10-“Of course that’s a very intellectual explanation,” he said. “But maybe sometimes you have to do an intellectual thing. If they don’t get the words, they’ll get the music. You can get hung up in words, you know. Maybe they work; I don’t know.” He fidgeted with a telescope.
^Brians thoughts on VDP's contributions summarized? He seems to like it but be a bit apprehensive/questioning here.

I have no more to say. Obviously, theres not much to this dissection as opposed to the others. While it was a fascinating read, again, Ive heard all the main points of it before secondhand. Its awesome to see it all in one place, and eloquently written, but there's nothing new for me to really speculate about.
Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #345 on: January 07, 2016, 04:59:40 PM »

Hi guys! I'm an italian musician and producer and I love smile and Brian Wilson works in a very unexplainable way Smiley
I'm very proud of a personal smile reconstruction that i did a couple of years ago. I did it for a very simple pleasure and purpose; to make it more fluid and complete of the version we have until that day, so the love i feel for this album can be transmitted, to people near to me that don't know it.. It's unbeleivable but a lot of people don't know this master concept album.. Sad
 So i used a few things of the 2003 version to make some song complete, i remixed all.  I love smile because it's a great album with a prpose bigger of the technology of the time Smiley
Soon i'll upload it on the tube. If you wanna listen to it, this is an old emule link. it still works!

ed2k://|file|(D4Nk4.IT)%20Beach%20Boys%20-%20A%20personal%20%20Smile%20reconstruction_%202014.rar|66028895|FF220110E4F090C4CCE6AD50B4636D85|h=SQH5DRA4H2XATQ2FFS33FZXXTA7FPRZ7|/

Sorry for language mistakes...
Nice to meet you guy!
Dan

zavarov, the link for your SMiLE mix does not work. Please give it another try; I'd like to listen to it. Thanks...
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #346 on: January 07, 2016, 05:10:23 PM »

Just a thought:  I don't think water need follow fire, as the fire is put out in the fire song itself.  That final "boom boom boom" of the drum, representing the collapsing walls or whatever, that's the fire being put out.  On the session tapes you even hear Brian instructing the drummer to "put that fire out" on that last bit.  

As of 1/7/16 I'm with you! Grin

No, seriously, as I mentioned above, for years - decades actually - I followed the fire with water. But right now, I'm experimenting with what you said, which is having the fire go out with the final "boom boom boom" of the drum. And I like the effect.

Again I'm just experimenting, and I know it's not historically correct (that's not my goal), but I'm now using "The Water Chant" going into a short segment of "Cool Cool Water" (both recorded during the Wild Honey sessions) early in the mix, around "Worms" and "Holidays" (which I use as an early nautical song). To me, it makes more sense (at least on 1/7/16) to use "The Water Chant" and "Cool Cool Water" (or "Dada") as actually BEING IN WATER! instead of putting out a fire in a barn. Razz
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 05:12:04 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
ThreeCats
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« Reply #347 on: January 07, 2016, 11:29:17 PM »

9- “It’s a man at a concert,” he said. “All around him there’s the audience, playing their roles, dressed up in fancy clothes, looking through opera glasses, but so far away from the drama, from life—‘Back through the opera glass you see the pit and the pendulum drawn.’”

“The music begins to take over. ‘Columnated ruins domino.’ Empires, ideas, lives, institutions—everything has to fall, tumbling like dominoes.

“He begins to awaken to the music; sees the pretentiousness of everything. ‘The music hall a costly bow.’ Then even the music is gone, turned into a trumpeter swan, into what the music really is.
^I have to say, its cool to hear him explain SU in his own way. I consider that last sentence more proof that SU was supposed to end with trumpets--that wailing trumpet sound from Talking Horns. I understand people being partial to the '71 fade, but I firmly believe those trumpets were meant to go there, especially after reading this.

Brian is explaining the lyrics to the song as it's playing. When he says "Then even the music is gone, turned into a trumpeter swan," that doesn't mean that the song is supposed to end with trumpets, he's just explaining what that particular lyric is supposed to symbolize. He even goes on to explain the lyrics as the song is ending:

“‘I heard the word’—of God; ‘Wonderful thing’—the joy of enlightenment, of seeing God. And what is it? ‘A children’s song!’ And then there’s the song itself, the song of children, the song of the universe rising and falling in wave after wave, the song of God, hiding the love from us, but always letting us find it again, like a mother singing to her children.”

It sounds like he's describing the children's song fade, and notice how he doesn't mention trumpets or anything like that. I think that's proof enough that the song is supposed to end with just the children's song fade.
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #348 on: January 07, 2016, 11:51:24 PM »

9- “It’s a man at a concert,” he said. “All around him there’s the audience, playing their roles, dressed up in fancy clothes, looking through opera glasses, but so far away from the drama, from life—‘Back through the opera glass you see the pit and the pendulum drawn.’”

“The music begins to take over. ‘Columnated ruins domino.’ Empires, ideas, lives, institutions—everything has to fall, tumbling like dominoes.

“He begins to awaken to the music; sees the pretentiousness of everything. ‘The music hall a costly bow.’ Then even the music is gone, turned into a trumpeter swan, into what the music really is.
^I have to say, its cool to hear him explain SU in his own way. I consider that last sentence more proof that SU was supposed to end with trumpets--that wailing trumpet sound from Talking Horns. I understand people being partial to the '71 fade, but I firmly believe those trumpets were meant to go there, especially after reading this.

Brian is explaining the lyrics to the song as it's playing. When he says "Then even the music is gone, turned into a trumpeter swan," that doesn't mean that the song is supposed to end with trumpets, he's just explaining what that particular lyric is supposed to symbolize. He even goes on to explain the lyrics as the song is ending:

“‘I heard the word’—of God; ‘Wonderful thing’—the joy of enlightenment, of seeing God. And what is it? ‘A children’s song!’ And then there’s the song itself, the song of children, the song of the universe rising and falling in wave after wave, the song of God, hiding the love from us, but always letting us find it again, like a mother singing to her children.”

It sounds like he's describing the children's song fade, and notice how he doesn't mention trumpets or anything like that. I think that's proof enough that the song is supposed to end with just the children's song fade.

You have your interpretation and I have mine  Cheesy
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
ThreeCats
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« Reply #349 on: January 08, 2016, 12:17:19 AM »

I suppose so.

Anyway, people were talking about different mixes for The Elements and I thought I'd whip up a quick-and-dirty edit of my own just to see how it sounds. I've no idea if anyone else has done it before, but I made it so that the last drum bang of Fire syncs up with the first piano key of LSD. I think it sounds... okay. The loud drum bang kinda overshadows the piano, but that's more a problem with my limited audio mixing skills. Regardless, I still prefer LSD opening with the water chant. I figured I'd share it anyway though, just to see what other people think:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b9je2aujhf7bzw/The%20Elements%20Test.mp3?dl=0
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