Bruce Johnston as a member of the Beach Boys

[slickman9696]

Through out all this talk about the Beach Boys reunions, there's a lot of the media talking about the original beach boys, being just the three, and just saying how Bruce Johnston has been around for like a while, but not calling him a real member. I just want to sort of guage everyone's opinion on this. I personally think he has every right to be a member of the Beach Boys and should get the media's respect. He's written songs for the beach boys on more than 10 occasions. I mostly want to hear from the people who think he shouldn't be included, just to see their reasoning.

[MBE]

Well I consider him a Beach Boy in a way but to me he just doesn't quite match the others talent wise. I think he is very independent of his Beach Boys career creative wise. His work on Sunflower and Surf's Up is pretty good but otherwise I don't think he added much to the direction of the group. When he was a producer from 78-79 his ideas were very mixed.

[Andrew G. Doe]

In most of the reissue projects since the turn of the millennium, there has been a little paragraph somewhere in the liner notes that says:

The Beach Boys are: Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson (d. 1998), Dennis Wilson (d. 1983), Mike Love, Alan Jardine and Bruce Johnston (1965-72, 1979-date).

Some of the more recent projects (rightly) add David Marks (1962-3, 1997-8)

You don't get something like that in a BRI sanctioned product without everyone involved nodding their corporate heads... so if it's OK by the rest of the band, then it's fine by me. Bruce is a Beach Boy. And so is David.

[shelter]

Well I consider him a Beach Boy in a way but to me he just doesn't quite match the others talent wise.

Bruce was definately not the least talented singer, producer and songwriter in the Beach Boys, so I disagee.

And I think it's wrong to not consider Bruce a 'real' Beach Boy because he missed the first four years and a few years in the 70s. It must be frustrating to still be more or less 'the new guy' in a band you joined 41 years ago...

[Beach Boy]

On the BBB message board I have said to him he would be no real Beach Boy, he was very sour. Besides, I thought that he was none of the foundation members. For me he is one. I estimate his work very much, above all, in him of 70th with albums like LA or Sunflower. I also like the Keepin The Summer Alive produced by him.

But on concerts in the 80th he has hardly sung lead. And even now if only Mike is present, he sings a little.

[matt-zeus]

Bruce does frequently refer to being in the Beach Boys as 'a job' rather than doing it for arts sake. He does it for the money because its easy, now I know the others to different degrees did the same, but at least they had some artistic interest (at one time) in being in the Beach Boys, theres only about half a dozen Bruce songs from his entire time in the BB, maybe he hasn't pulled his weight!

[Andrew G. Doe]

On the BBB message board I have said to him he would be no real Beach Boy, he was very sour.

Well, gee, I wonder why that could possibly be ? 

[The Shift]

In most of the reissue projects since the turn of the millennium, there has been a little paragraph somewhere in the liner notes that says:

The Beach Boys are: Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson (d. 1998), Dennis Wilson (d. 1983), Mike Love, Alan Jardine and Bruce Johnston (1965-72, 1979-date).

Some of the more recent projects (rightly) add David Marks (1962-3, 1997-8)

You don't get something like that in a BRI sanctioned product without everyone involved nodding their corporate heads... so if it's OK by the rest of the band, then it's fine by me. Bruce is a Beach Boy. And so is David.

Couldn't agree more. Would like to see Ricky and Blondie's stints recognised too in such acknowledgements. They, via Carl, did influence the BBs sound in the early '70s and – Andrew, please confirm whether I'm write in this – I believe that at that time they each held full Beach Boy-status in terms of payment/band member; they weren't just session musicians or on-stage players, but were fully integrated.  And to pick up on another point mentioned in an earlier post, their contributoions in terms of songs on albums probably were as high, ratio-wise, as any album featuring Bruce's songs.

[Paul Childs]

Out of Dave Bruce Blondie & Ricci, Bruce has got to be the most Beach Boy as he was with the band with most of their hits during the sixties which was their best time.

[the captain]

The only way I would say it is justified to consider him not a "real" Beach Boy is if, business-wise, he isn't. Now I don't know how the BRI arrangement or payments work, but if they say he's a hired gun, then so be it, he is one. Otherwise, he's a Beach Boy. I would think that 41 years (minus a few in the 70s) should count for something. And if he isn't as prolific a writer or frequent a singer for them, so what? He certainly lent his musical talents to backing vocals and instrumentation on many, many occasions.

[Paul Childs]

From  Pet Sounds onwards until he left in 1972 he was pictured on all the album covers and other pictures and a lot of the time as a five piece without Brian so doesn't that make him a full time Beach Boy?

[SG7]

Sort of. I think he is a Beach Boy. 

[matt-zeus]

A Beach man

[Andrew G. Doe]

The only way I would say it is justified to consider him not a "real" Beach Boy is if, business-wise, he isn't. Now I don't know how the BRI arrangement or payments work, but if they say he's a hired gun, then so be it, he is one. Otherwise, he's a Beach Boy. I would think that 41 years (minus a few in the 70s) should count for something. And if he isn't as prolific a writer or frequent a singer for them, so what? He certainly lent his musical talents to backing vocals and instrumentation on many, many occasions.

Interesting point. Technically, he **IS** a hired gun, because he sold his share of Brother back to BRI in, I think, the mid-70s. But emotionally, he's a BB.

[BananaLouie]

Besides the main members ie Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and Al, Bruce is by far the closest to being a full original member than other Beach Boys who have come and gone like Glen, Blondie, Ricki and even David Marks.  Bruce is also extremely talented, when I think of the other beach boys besides Brian who have blossomed in the late sixties with composing, arranging, producing etc Bruce is an equal to Dennis, Carl, Al and Mike.  Bruce's participation in a Beach Boys reunion is vital and necessacarry.

[Jonas]

Ohhhh fantasy world...and Dis-a-ney girls...I'm coming back.

[MadeForTheseTimes]

He has the same problem as Rolling Stone Ronnie Wood--Ronnie's been with the band since '75, but still isn't called a real Stone by some!

[bossaroo]

He tours with Mike Love as the Beach Boys, so as far as the average concert-goer knows/cares, he is more of a Beach Boy than anyone named Wilson!
Brian featured him prominently early on, on classics like California Girls and God Only Knows... so in that respect I consider him as much a Beach Boy as the rest of them.

But I can't stand the fact that he took Brian's place on album covers and publicity shots, essentially replacing Brian in the public eye.  I also don't like his songs... Tears in the Morning has to be one of THE worst songs ever written (on one of THE best albums ever made).  His disco remake of Here Comes the Night, one of my favorite Brian tunes is basically unforgivable.  And his embarrassing Mr.Rogers-in-short-shorts fashion sense and gee-shucks choirboy stage banter also make me ill... not to mention the fact that he has taken up residence in Mike Love's backside for the past two decades.

For those reasons, AND the fact that he walked out on a close friend of mine during an interview just because the guy said he really liked the 'Love You' album... it makes me kind of happy to see that he still isn't considered a "true" Beach Boy in certain articles, etc.

[BananaLouie]

Did Bruce participate on any of the Love You tracks? I swear I could hear him on the tag of I'll Bet He's Nice.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

\

For those reasons, AND the fact that he walked out on a close friend of mine during an interview just because the guy said he really liked the 'Love You' album... it makes me kind of happy to see that he still isn't considered a "true" Beach Boy in certain articles, etc.

  Bruce can be an ass at times, but still puts on that facade of being Mr. Nice Guy. I am not surpised he did that, judging from some of his online exploits/

Bruce was definately not the least talented singer, producer and songwriter in the Beach Boys, so I disagee.

That's a matter of opinon, and one open for debate. I personally feel he is. Although...being the least talented Beach Boy is still better than the most talented member of most bands...

[Jonas]

Bruce was definately not the least talented singer, producer and songwriter in the Beach Boys, so I disagee.

That's a matter of opinon, and one open for debate. I personally feel he is. Although...being the least talented Beach Boy is still better than the most talented member of most bands...

I'd have to disagree with you chief. Bruce has written tracks that can destroy others. I think Bruce is up there with Brian, Carl, and Dennis. Completely surpassing Mike and Al. Tears in the Morning, Disney Girls, and his very own I Write the Songs (which won a grammy, hello!) are just gorgeous! Especially when he plays them live (as a solo mind you) at BB concerts.

If I saw Mike & Bruce's touring band, Ill be the guy in the front screaming for Bruce to sing DisneyGirls or I Write the Songs, because that would be worth the admission alone...

[Jonas]

and it'd be blasphemy if I didnt mention Diedre

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Deirdre is a great song. Tears in the Morning is...decent. Disney Girls is pretty good. However...that's it.  "I write the Songs" is pure dreck; how appropriate for Manilow to cover it.
His production abilities (or lack thereof) were laughable, at least after he rejoined the band. Really, he was a good member before he left. Once he returned though, he was basically a slightly more talented version of Adrian Baker only with more opportunity.

Mike co-wrote some of the best songs in pop history. Brian may have had "better" collaborators over a short period of time, but he always wrote consistently excellent songs with Mike. Mike was an irreplacable part of the vocal blend. Losing Bruce for most of the 70s didn't hurt them too much.

Al was criminally underappreciated. He could sound a lot like Brian in live performances , no mean feat. Compare with live shows where Bruce was trying to sing Brian's high parts (10/12/66 being a great example)...he couldn't do it. Al wrote better songs than Bruce ever did, and his voice aged very little over the years. His voice was generally excellent, and in someways reminded me of a mix of Mike's & Carl's.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Yeah, Bruce has EARNED the right to be called a Beach Boy.

I always thought Bruce thought of himself as a songwriter first, and a performer second. However, if you look at his released song output, it is relatively thin, especially for a 45 year career. His backlog of unrecorded songs must be huge...

[Jonas]

Deirdre is a great song. Tears in the Morning is...decent. Disney Girls is pretty good. However...that's it.  "I write the Songs" is pure dreck; how appropriate for Manilow to cover it.
His production abilities (or lack thereof) were laughable, at least after he rejoined the band. Really, he was a good member before he left. Once he returned though, he was basically a slightly more talented version of Adrian Baker only with more opportunity.

This is in YOUR opinion. I would say the same about some of Mike's productions. Do you really want me to bring up Mike's solo album? I Write the Songs which is "pure dreck" would blow all of Mike's solos songs out of the water. And lets not go away from the fact that Bruce is the only 'member' who has won a grammy. None of your other points have really brought up why Mike or Al are more proficient in music production than Bruce. Bruce has done countless of stuff even before the Beach Boys ala Bruce & Terry and whatever else thats out there. I would love for you to list me what songs Al has done that competes with Bruce's song writing ability.

And Mike's collaborations with Brian as 'co-writing some of the best pop songs in history' does not compare with the fact that Bruce has written songs himself. We're talking about overall productions. Can we say Tony Asher is a better song writer than Bruce because he collaborated on Pet Sounds? Come on now!

I think Bruce is a great producer/writer/musician. Its one thing to not like his productions, but its another to say he's not at the same level as the others...