Summer in Paradise Recalled

[Douchepool]

Yup. What started out as an interesting thread quickly devolved into crap. And all due to the usual suspects.

Speak for yourself. Some of us discuss things. If you don't like the discussions, don't post in the thread. Simple as that.

I liked the discussion just fine until it devolved into the same old crap. When posters bow out that is conclusive proof that the discussion has lost whatever merit it once had.

[Douchepool]

Yup. What started out as an interesting thread quickly devolved into crap. And all due to the usual suspects.

Speak for yourself. Some of us discuss things. If you don't like the discussions, don't post in the thread. Simple as that.

Atta boy, GF.   SIP and interesting thread in the same sentence Oxymoron for sure. 

You have something on your nose, bruh.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Yup. What started out as an interesting thread quickly devolved into crap. And all due to the usual suspects.

Speak for yourself. Some of us discuss things. If you don't like the discussions, don't post in the thread. Simple as that.

Atta boy, GF.  SIP and interesting thread in the same sentence Oxymoron for sure.  

You have something on your nose, bruh.

That's soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo clever of you!!!   Wow. OK. Tit for tat. Is that brown shoe polish all over your face or have you been hangin' out with the luHvster again?

[Cam Mott]

...Perhaps, just perhaps (Cam)...it had more to do with the music not being what audiences wanted to hear from the Beach Boys. Maybe the decision to release a quasi-rap song wasn't in tune with what the market was looking for from the Beach Boys. Perhaps the music being promoted on the Baywatch show wasn't that appealing.

And I find it a bit odd to hear the phrase "late to the party" repeated again when the band was going on the most watched show in the world.

Anything to excuse the actual quality of the music as a factor? Excuse the poor decisions which led to Summer Of Love becoming the so-called "single" that no one wanted?

I guess a billion fans worldwide who watched Baywatch in 1995 yet didn't buy either the SIP album or demand a single can't be wrong.  

That is my point (Craig), a billion viewers worldwide didn't determine the popularity SOL, just like 78 million viewers didn't determine Kokomo's #1 popularity, both songs apparently rose and fell on their own merits.  Two way logic, I suppose.

Change it up any way possible, the fact is both Summer In Paradise and the Summer Of Love single failed miserably. Having a video appear on "the world's most watched TV program" couldn't revive music that had already flatlined and sank numerous times upon release in 1992, re-release in 1993, release on a Baywatch soundtrack in 1994, and the full-blown video treatment in 1995.

So logic, Cam...in your opinion, the forces and the people behind Kokomo whose hard work and skill drove that song to success, removing the Tom Cruise and Cocktail tie-in for discussion purposes...they're the same basic team that produced Summer In Paradise and Summer Of Love. Same creative forces behind those records. Getting exposure on a show watched by a billion people worldwide, it still failed and failed miserably. The same formula, the same production outlook was applied to SIP and Summer Of Love as was Kokomo, it was almost the same scenario where the band didn't have a label but was jumping on a soundtrack and going for TV exposure this time around (1995) versus film. Perhaps *more* viewers saw Baywatch in Fall 1995 than had seen Cocktail in summer/fall 1988. The film and Tom Cruise helped Kokomo, this time it was Baywatch and all the trappings of that show in '95.

So why did SIP and Summer Of Love fail so miserably? I ask, could it be because the music just wasn't that good and people did not want to buy those sounds from the Beach Boys?

Or another angle, what was it about the driving forces in and around the band as you see them that put Kokomo into the hit singles charts that failed with SIP and SOL despite having the same people doing the work?

Sometimes a fluke really is a fluke instead of a mandate or a template for success. Maybe having rap verses on a mediocre Beach Boys song just wasn't a wise choice for a single to offer to Baywatch's billion worldwide viewers in 1995. Just a thought.

Angle it any way you want but logic, in my opinion, is sometimes it is the very nature of Popular Music.  SOL failed and K excelled simply because people buy songs based on if they like them or not, regardless of their exposure or connection to a movie or show or even who put the song together. Otherwise every song ever in heavy rotation on MTV/VH1 or in a popular movie/soundtrack or on an even more massively popular TV show would all go to #1 it seems to me and I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened.

[guitarfool2002]

Yup. What started out as an interesting thread quickly devolved into crap. And all due to the usual suspects.

Speak for yourself. Some of us discuss things. If you don't like the discussions, don't post in the thread. Simple as that.

When the tread starter leaves here pissed, then yes, the thread devolved. Speaking for myself, this was a positive thread, so why didn't you say that to the negative posters that changed the original direction instead of Jason?

Yup. What started out as an interesting thread quickly devolved into crap. And all due to the usual suspects.

Speak for yourself. Some of us discuss things. If you don't like the discussions, don't post in the thread. Simple as that.

I liked the discussion just fine until it devolved into the same old crap. When posters bow out that is conclusive proof that the discussion has lost whatever merit it once had.

"Usual suspects", who are they in the first few pages of this one, then? The OP posted something asking about the negativity back on page 3 or 4, yet if you scan who posted up to that point, who exactly stands out as the usual suspects out to scupper another discussion?

And if the thread/topic is about opinions on Summer In Paradise, click on this link to an SIP discussion that goes back to 2005. The link goes to page 5 specifically.

After reading through this, then come on and tell us who the "usual suspects" are that have been bashing the SIP album on this board. And try to suggest it's something specific to those people posting here this week.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,949.100.html

[guitarfool2002]

...Perhaps, just perhaps (Cam)...it had more to do with the music not being what audiences wanted to hear from the Beach Boys. Maybe the decision to release a quasi-rap song wasn't in tune with what the market was looking for from the Beach Boys. Perhaps the music being promoted on the Baywatch show wasn't that appealing.

And I find it a bit odd to hear the phrase "late to the party" repeated again when the band was going on the most watched show in the world.

Anything to excuse the actual quality of the music as a factor? Excuse the poor decisions which led to Summer Of Love becoming the so-called "single" that no one wanted?

I guess a billion fans worldwide who watched Baywatch in 1995 yet didn't buy either the SIP album or demand a single can't be wrong.  

That is my point (Craig), a billion viewers worldwide didn't determine the popularity SOL, just like 78 million viewers didn't determine Kokomo's #1 popularity, both songs apparently rose and fell on their own merits.  Two way logic, I suppose.

Change it up any way possible, the fact is both Summer In Paradise and the Summer Of Love single failed miserably. Having a video appear on "the world's most watched TV program" couldn't revive music that had already flatlined and sank numerous times upon release in 1992, re-release in 1993, release on a Baywatch soundtrack in 1994, and the full-blown video treatment in 1995.

So logic, Cam...in your opinion, the forces and the people behind Kokomo whose hard work and skill drove that song to success, removing the Tom Cruise and Cocktail tie-in for discussion purposes...they're the same basic team that produced Summer In Paradise and Summer Of Love. Same creative forces behind those records. Getting exposure on a show watched by a billion people worldwide, it still failed and failed miserably. The same formula, the same production outlook was applied to SIP and Summer Of Love as was Kokomo, it was almost the same scenario where the band didn't have a label but was jumping on a soundtrack and going for TV exposure this time around (1995) versus film. Perhaps *more* viewers saw Baywatch in Fall 1995 than had seen Cocktail in summer/fall 1988. The film and Tom Cruise helped Kokomo, this time it was Baywatch and all the trappings of that show in '95.

So why did SIP and Summer Of Love fail so miserably? I ask, could it be because the music just wasn't that good and people did not want to buy those sounds from the Beach Boys?

Or another angle, what was it about the driving forces in and around the band as you see them that put Kokomo into the hit singles charts that failed with SIP and SOL despite having the same people doing the work?

Sometimes a fluke really is a fluke instead of a mandate or a template for success. Maybe having rap verses on a mediocre Beach Boys song just wasn't a wise choice for a single to offer to Baywatch's billion worldwide viewers in 1995. Just a thought.

Angle it any way you want but logic, in my opinion, is sometimes it is the very nature of Popular Music.  SOL failed and K excelled simply because people buy songs based on if they like them or not, regardless of their exposure or connection to a movie or show or even who put the song together. Otherwise every song ever in heavy rotation on MTV/VH1 or in a popular movie/soundtrack or on an even more massively popular TV show would all go to #1 it seems to me and I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened.

So what would you say was the main reason behind Kokomo's success? Or what would you credit for that song's success that you might also blame if possible for SIP/SOL failing when similar components were involved in making and selling those as were behind Kokomo? Only difference in theory would be TV versus film, and in this case the TV may have reached a larger audience of potential record buyers.

[drbeachboy]

...Perhaps, just perhaps (Cam)...it had more to do with the music not being what audiences wanted to hear from the Beach Boys. Maybe the decision to release a quasi-rap song wasn't in tune with what the market was looking for from the Beach Boys. Perhaps the music being promoted on the Baywatch show wasn't that appealing.

And I find it a bit odd to hear the phrase "late to the party" repeated again when the band was going on the most watched show in the world.

Anything to excuse the actual quality of the music as a factor? Excuse the poor decisions which led to Summer Of Love becoming the so-called "single" that no one wanted?

I guess a billion fans worldwide who watched Baywatch in 1995 yet didn't buy either the SIP album or demand a single can't be wrong. 

That is my point (Craig), a billion viewers worldwide didn't determine the popularity SOL, just like 78 million viewers didn't determine Kokomo's #1 popularity, both songs apparently rose and fell on their own merits.  Two way logic, I suppose.

Change it up any way possible, the fact is both Summer In Paradise and the Summer Of Love single failed miserably. Having a video appear on "the world's most watched TV program" couldn't revive music that had already flatlined and sank numerous times upon release in 1992, re-release in 1993, release on a Baywatch soundtrack in 1994, and the full-blown video treatment in 1995.

So logic, Cam...in your opinion, the forces and the people behind Kokomo whose hard work and skill drove that song to success, removing the Tom Cruise and Cocktail tie-in for discussion purposes...they're the same basic team that produced Summer In Paradise and Summer Of Love. Same creative forces behind those records. Getting exposure on a show watched by a billion people worldwide, it still failed and failed miserably. The same formula, the same production outlook was applied to SIP and Summer Of Love as was Kokomo, it was almost the same scenario where the band didn't have a label but was jumping on a soundtrack and going for TV exposure this time around (1995) versus film. Perhaps *more* viewers saw Baywatch in Fall 1995 than had seen Cocktail in summer/fall 1988. The film and Tom Cruise helped Kokomo, this time it was Baywatch and all the trappings of that show in '95.

So why did SIP and Summer Of Love fail so miserably? I ask, could it be because the music just wasn't that good and people did not want to buy those sounds from the Beach Boys?

Or another angle, what was it about the driving forces in and around the band as you see them that put Kokomo into the hit singles charts that failed with SIP and SOL despite having the same people doing the work?

Sometimes a fluke really is a fluke instead of a mandate or a template for success. Maybe having rap verses on a mediocre Beach Boys song just wasn't a wise choice for a single to offer to Baywatch's billion worldwide viewers in 1995. Just a thought.

Angle it any way you want but logic, in my opinion, is sometimes it is the very nature of Popular Music.  SOL failed and K excelled simply because people buy songs based on if they like them or not, regardless of their exposure or connection to a movie or show or even who put the song together. Otherwise every song ever in heavy rotation on MTV/VH1 or in a popular movie/soundtrack or on an even more massively popular TV show would all go to #1 it seems to me and I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened.

So what would you say was the main reason behind Kokomo's success? Or what would you credit for that song's success that you might also blame if possible for SIP/SOL failing when similar components were involved in making and selling those as were behind Kokomo? Only difference in theory would be TV versus film, and in this case the TV may have reached a larger audience of potential record buyers.

How about, Kokomo is a good song and Summer Of Love, not so much? I had to laugh watching the video, seeing Brian in that video is enough to scare me away from watching, let alone buying it.

[phirnis]

Someone uploaded some more bits from the 1995 Baywatch episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1AT9p2OPZU Hilarious stuff!

By the way, Summer of Love was three years old when it appeared on the show, right? Why did they use an old song from an album that was their biggest commercial failure ever?

[Rob Dean]

Sorry but to save me scrolling through this thread in forensic detail AM I NOT CORRECT in saying that 'Summer Of Love' was never released as a single ? I certainly don't even recall a promo copy being issued......

If it was, can someone please point me in the right direction.

[bgas]

Sorry but to save me scrolling through this thread in forensic detail AM I NOT CORRECT in saying that 'Summer Of Love' was never released as a single ? I certainly don't even recall a promo copy being issued......

If it was, can someone please point me in the right direction.

 

Here ya go, hope this helps

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[Gerry]

bgas, you're a caution.

[Rob Dean]

Sorry but to save me scrolling through this thread in forensic detail AM I NOT CORRECT in saying that 'Summer Of Love' was never released as a single ? I certainly don't even recall a promo copy being issued......

If it was, can someone please point me in the right direction.

 

Here ya go, hope this helps

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Cheers, that certainly helped     

[bgas]

ahhhh.......  
Succintly, I was presuming you were referring to vinyl.  

There was a USA promo CD single; cover and info borrowed from :  

  

[Rob Dean]

Many thanks, honestly didn't realise it existed - Interesting reading the engineering credits. 

[CenturyDeprived]

By the way, Summer of Love was three years old when it appeared on the show, right? Why did they use an old song from an album that was their biggest commercial failure ever?

I would assume in part it was an awkward attempt for Mike to try to get the song, from a project that had been such a sales failure, to finally get some traction; a desperate move to prove that Kokomo wasn't a fluke (I say desperate since SIP didn't just sink and go away, but it kept coming back in different regurgitated forms, with no success at any point). I can't imagine that any of the Boys believed in the song as much as Mike, nor did any of them stand to feel as ego-wounded by its failure as Mike did. It's like "It's gonna be a hit one way or another, dammmit!", yet this obviously did not pan out as planned, for SIP or SOL, no matter how much re-recording, remixing, or TV show tie-ins were repeatedly attempted.

Not many artists would try not once, but twice after the initial release, to try and push the same product that had severely flopped both commercially and critically. It's like everyone got the memo that SOL blew chunks and should just go away - except Mike. Yet after 1995, SOL might as well have never existed in the band's canon, if one were to see how many times it every got mentioned by them again. Post-1995, I guess Mike must've gotten the memo.

Was SOL only used after the band nixed recording that new song they tried recording for the show (but then abandoned)? Was it the 2nd choice?

[SMiLE Brian]

I had to listen to both versions of this three times in succession - each, that's six times - while updating the ComGuide. Therefore I feel unusually qualified to say that, in my opinion, this album sucks like a turbo-charged cess pit emptier.

[CenturyDeprived]

ahhhh.......  
Succintly, I was presuming you were referring to vinyl.  

There was a USA promo CD single; cover and info borrowed from eil.com:  

    

Tracklisting: 1. Summer Of Love 2:49  
Year of Release: 1995  
Artist: Beach Boys
Title: Summer Of Love
Format: CD single (CD5 / 5")
Record Label: Scotti Bros
Catalogue No: SBDJ78033-2
Country of Origin: USA  


Edit:  Wasn't certain I possessed this one, but I found it...  

      

Even though I think SOL is the pits, Brian should have gotten a cowriting credit on SOL, since the chorus blatantly lifts his riff from Child of Winter, Wontha Come Out Tonight, Mike Come Back to LA, and Some of Your Love. Is that an instance of Mike not crediting Brian?

It must have crossed Mike's mind at some point, one would think, especially considering how hurt Mike had to have been when non-crediting happened to him.

[mikeddonn]

So if it wasn't released as a single is that why it wasn't a hit?!

Or else, it wasn't as good as Kokomo.

Or how about the lyrics were more cheesy.

Maybe it was because, regardless of exposure some songs are hits and some aren't. 

[bgas]

Even though I think SOL is the pits, Brian should have gotten a cowriting credit on SOL, since the chorus blatantly lifts his riff from Child of Winter, Wontha Come Out Tonight, Mike Come Back to LA, and Some of Your Love. Is that an instance of Mike not crediting Brian?

It must have crossed Mike's mind at some point, one would think, especially considering how hurt Mike had to have been when non-crediting happened to him.

  Mike probably just figured it was Games Two Can Play....

[CenturyDeprived]

Even though I think SOL is the pits, Brian should have gotten a cowriting credit on SOL, since the chorus blatantly lifts his riff from Child of Winter, Wontha Come Out Tonight, Mike Come Back to LA, and Some of Your Love. Is that an instance of Mike not crediting Brian?

It must have crossed Mike's mind at some point, one would think, especially considering how hurt Mike had to have been when non-crediting happened to him.

  Mike probably just figured it was Games Two Can Play....

Yeah, I agree.

[Autotune]

Great lead vocals.

Thin, unimaginative harmonies.

Half-assed material.

Plastic production.

[Jason Penick]

I think the issue with SIP is more with the quality of songs rather than the production. 

I don't think there's a producer alive or dead that could make Summer of Love into something good. 

Well, let's not undersell the production, about which words such as "horrific" and "abominable" seem insufficient. It takes real talent to make a snare drum sound like a metal sheet being struck by a tire iron.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Mike Love couldn't decide or choose or sign a contract to release "Summer Of Love" as a single without permission via a vote from the group.

Mike Love couldn't merely say, "Hey, everybody be at the TV studio by 1:00 PM. We're filming a video and a little dance to "Summer Of Love" without the agreement of the other guys via a vote from the group.

And since it is the topic of the thread, Mike Love couldn't dictate to the group what kind of album they would record, who the producer would be, and who the record company would (or wouldn't) be without consent from the group via a vote.

The Beach Boys were not a dictatorship, they were a corporation. It's easy to blame, and for several people on this board, to ridicule Mike Love. The reality is that all of the guys shared in the hits - and misses. They shared in both the praise and the blame. Again, on this board, several people don't understand that, or, understand it but prefer to be ignorant, because it's too hard, and in some cases impossible for them to make Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, and Al Jardine accountable.

[bgas]

Mike Love couldn't decide or choose or sign a contract to release "Summer Of Love" as a single without permission via a vote from the group.

Mike Love couldn't merely say, "Hey, everybody be at the TV studio by 1:00 PM. We're filming a video and a little dance to "Summer Of Love" without the agreement of the other guys via a vote from the group.

And since it is the topic of the thread, Mike Love couldn't dictate to the group what kind of album they would record, who the producer would be, and who the record company would (or wouldn't) be without consent from the group via a vote.

The Beach Boys were not a dictatorship, they were a corporation. It's easy to blame, and for several people on this board, to ridicule Mike Love. The reality is that all of the guys shared in the hits - and misses. They shared in both the praise and the blame. Again, on this board, several people don't understand that, or, understand it but prefer to be ignorant, because it's too hard, and in some cases impossible for them to make Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, and Al Jardine accountable.

There is, of course, something to what you say.
But my sense is as time went on, it was just easier to roll with it, than fight Mike over the decisions that he ( alone) was probably making. That makes them all culpable for the decision, yes, but it's not as if they really "voted"' they simply let Mike do most of what he wanted.
 Al wasn't going to see things go his way no matter what.
Carl had more important things to do with his time then sppend it arguing with Mike

[CenturyDeprived]

Mike Love couldn't decide or choose or sign a contract to release "Summer Of Love" as a single without permission via a vote from the group.

Mike Love couldn't merely say, "Hey, everybody be at the TV studio by 1:00 PM. We're filming a video and a little dance to "Summer Of Love" without the agreement of the other guys via a vote from the group.

And since it is the topic of the thread, Mike Love couldn't dictate to the group what kind of album they would record, who the producer would be, and who the record company would (or wouldn't) be without consent from the group via a vote.

The Beach Boys were not a dictatorship, they were a corporation. It's easy to blame, and for several people on this board, to ridicule Mike Love. The reality is that all of the guys shared in the hits - and misses. They shared in both the praise and the blame. Again, on this board, several people don't understand that, or, understand it but prefer to be ignorant, because it's too hard, and in some cases impossible for them to make Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, and Al Jardine accountable.

Al was nearly sacked from the band at the time, so I hardly think he was in any position to exert any power play. Carl probably went along with what Mike wanted; do you honestly think Carl was enthusiastic about this material? He did not wish to fight at this point in his life. Do you doubt that?

Face it: SIP and SOL are mostly Mike's babies, and the projects are *more* his "fault" than the other Boys', just as one can say it's *more* Brian's "fault" than the other Boys' that Smile was abandoned. Mike in the early 90s was riding high on Kokomo's success, so that had to have given him more power to have a project done more his way; just as if Al, instead of Mike, had written a #1 hit for The BBs in 1988, Al would probably have fenagled any 1992 BB album to be more Al's way, due to clout.