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Author Topic: Carl  (Read 5273 times)
marcella27
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« on: August 25, 2015, 09:21:30 AM »

I'm a very new member so please don't freak out at me if this has been discussed before (I'm sure it has).  It's obvious that Carl was a major force in the band in the 70s (if not the major force).  We also know that he got frustrated with the "oldies" direction the band was taking in the early 80s and took off to do his solo work.

But...what happened after that?  He rejoined the band and stayed with it until the end. 

Was he comfortable with the heavy emphasis on the oldies aspect? I can't understand how someone who was responsible for so much amazing music (both as a performer and a producer) could have been satisfied with what the BB ended up doing in the 80s and 90s.  Was it that he lost his allies with Brian's departure and Dennis' death?  That he lost control to Mike? 

I'm not trying to start any arguments here, just honestly interested in others' opinions.     
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2015, 09:25:08 AM »

I'm a very new member so please don't freak out at me if this has been discussed before (I'm sure it has).  It's obvious that Carl was a major force in the band in the 70s (if not the major force).  We also know that he got frustrated with the "oldies" direction the band was taking in the early 80s and took off to do his solo work.

But...what happened after that?  He rejoined the band and stayed with it until the end. 

Was he comfortable with the heavy emphasis on the oldies aspect? I can't understand how someone who was responsible for so much amazing music (both as a performer and a producer) could have been satisfied with what the BB ended up doing in the 80s and 90s.  Was it that he lost his allies with Brian's departure and Dennis' death?  That he lost control to Mike? 

I'm not trying to start any arguments here, just honestly interested in others' opinions.     

IMO he gave up the fight after having gotten sober, and having to deal with the double emotional blow of losing Denny and having Brian in Landy's clutches. What ally would he have had to continue the fight at that point? I'm sure he, like Mike, wanted stability and a stable job/existence approaching 40 years old, so he just probably settled into going along for the (mostly) oldies ride, and trying to keep quality control up to a high standard for a while at least.
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 06:11:35 PM »

I feel like everyone in the Beach Boys lost passion for making incredible music post-1980. There are obvious exceptions but for the most part, the band became a steady job. Although when it came to performing and recording, as a group, the BBs improved a lot with TWGMTR, in comparison to everything else from the 80's and 90's with the exception of some of BW's solo stuff.
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 09:11:43 PM »

I'm a very new member so please don't freak out at me if this has been discussed before (I'm sure it has).  It's obvious that Carl was a major force in the band in the 70s (if not the major force).  We also know that he got frustrated with the "oldies" direction the band was taking in the early 80s and took off to do his solo work.

But...what happened after that?  He rejoined the band and stayed with it until the end. 

Was he comfortable with the heavy emphasis on the oldies aspect? I can't understand how someone who was responsible for so much amazing music (both as a performer and a producer) could have been satisfied with what the BB ended up doing in the 80s and 90s.  Was it that he lost his allies with Brian's departure and Dennis' death?  That he lost control to Mike? 

I'm not trying to start any arguments here, just honestly interested in others' opinions.     

IMO he gave up the fight after having gotten sober, and having to deal with the double emotional blow of losing Denny and having Brian in Landy's clutches. What ally would he have had to continue the fight at that point? I'm sure he, like Mike, wanted stability and a stable job/existence approaching 40 years old, so he just probably settled into going along for the (mostly) oldies ride, and trying to keep quality control up to a high standard for a while at least.
I agree with that assessment. In the late 80's/90's, Carl had more important things on his mind than making records. It was only with Landy out of the picture that Carl started to focus on creating new music again - but not with his old group. So we got Beckley/Lamm/Wilson instead. And even that had to take a backseat to the endless BB's tours.
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wantsomecorn
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 09:20:02 PM »

Carl just gave into the demands of the audience more than anything. Endlessly touring smaller and smaller venues for greatest hits shows left the audiences expecting nothing but the hits.

Even when they were doing more experimental setlists in the 70s, people would still constantly call out for Barbara Ann and Little Deuce Coupe. Eventually, he said screw it, and gave the audiences what they were asking for, even if it took him longer to come around to it than Mike, Al, or even Dennis.

It's interesting to look at his solo tours too, where he pretty much only did songs from his two solo albums, alongside maybe two Beach Boys songs max per show (with one of them being Long Promised Road usually), hardly what most uniformed audiences would've expected from the first solo tour of the Beach Boy's Lead Guitarist.
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2015, 05:46:20 AM »

I already wrote a long blurb about this before, so I'll just repost it here.

Quote
From my first memories of reading about him, the first thing I thought about Carl Wilson was this - what you see is what you get. Of all of the Beach Boys, Carl was the least prone to bullshitting. He was certainly the warmest and most inviting of any of them. A perennial albatross, always up in the air, doing his own thing while still being democratic with the group.

Brian essentially had Carl as his right-hand man. And Carl was always around for his brother. And we all know that Carl was in genuine awe of his brother's talents. For someone as sensitive (in a good way) as Carl, watching his brother slowly burn out personally (forget creatively, that's a THREAD), especially when his brother was the reason he managed to become famous and successful could only have been among the most crushing blows ever dealt to him.

When Brian retreated, a whole lot of responsibility went onto Carl's (as well as Dennis') shoulders. Early on, forced to scramble and improvise around Brian's inconsistent bursts of creativity, Carl was able to develop into a much more talented artist at a rate almost as amazing as Brian had a few years before. And Carl's hard work was certainly of great artistic merit, and led the way for the band's evolution from America's preeminent pop group to a great recording and touring rock band. The world caught on too late to Carl's efforts, and by the time they were recognized, the band was starting to slow their progression to a crawl, finally sidestepping, and taking a huge step back. While I am quite sure Carl was not one to piss on or try to lessen the value the band's initial success, all of his work from when Brian stepped back to when the oldies show came running back in full force must have been disheartening for him.

There is, of course, this one conflicting story, which came from Jim Guercio, who had mentioned to the band back in late 1973 that while the shows were good, they were too loose and the audience was inconsistently entertained depending on how well-versed they were in the Beach Boys' music. He recommended that they add more of the oldies to the setlist. And the response from all of the touring band was a unanimous "yes". Where this fits in is anyone's guess.

The Beach Boys were certainly easily convinced by the almighty dollar to jump on the relentless touring bandwagon once Endless Summer became successful. There was money to be made, and they jumped at the opportunity. Sure, it's one thing to be artistic but quite another to be artistic and working from gig to gig just to survive. Carl, as the leader during their period in the desert in the early 1970s, was quite aware of that kind of burden. Their finances dropped fast, and by 1971 they were financing their tours with Brian's royalties. And this is where the conflict comes in.

Carl did want to be an artist. But once confronted with a rapidly declining Brian and Dennis on and off stage, his own troubles with Michael and Al, his marriage falling apart, and his drug and alcohol problems, he was forced to choose what was more important to him. And this was where the Beach Boys, while they were his bread and butter, became secondary to family.

Carl was able to exorcise his demons, and he wanted to have his brothers cleaned up and brought back to prominence within the group. He was a man of great patience when it came to Brian's often embarrassing live performances and rapidly lackluster studio work, and the issue of Dennis and Michael being at each other's throats would have driven most sane people over the edge. Carl was diplomatic and let Dennis off for a time to get his act together. And Dennis was able to get back in decent shape for a bit before spiraling out of control again.

But once it became obvious that it was a situation of life or death for both Brian and Dennis, Carl decided enough was enough. Family had to come first. His brothers and cousin took priority. He was instrumental in getting Brian back under Landy's care, which, while it was a bad move in the long run, was at least enough to allow Brian to return to a healthy frame of mind. And he certainly tried what he could to help Dennis. Dennis was guided by his own whims and not even the patience of Carl was enough to convince Dennis beyond a few couple-day stints in rehab. Carl even let Dennis stay with him at one point in 1983 when Dennis was homeless.

The loss of Dennis was the first blow. You can see it all over Carl's face in the press conference video the day after Dennis died. Something inside of him was gone. He had lost one of his brothers, and Brian was slowly going back to being himself. Carl's responsibility as the leader of the Beach Boys was still of importance to him; he wanted to be sure the fans were treated to a good time every day they performed. Everyone knows the stories of Carl's charity and kindness with the fans. Family still came first. I will never say that Carl gave up. He was too good to just give up on the Beach Boys and the fans. But they did become a lesser priority. And that's why as time went on, his input in the songwriting department slowed to a crawl.

When it came to the reunion in 1995, I'm sure Carl had modest expectations as to how Brian would deliver. But it soon became obvious, no matter how great the material was, that Brian was essentially being controlled again. Not by the drugs, but by his handlers. And this was something of which Carl wanted no part. He wanted to work with Brian, not with Brian's handlers. And Carl being the lucky person to put a half-hearted vocal down on Dancing The Night Away? I would have thrown up my arms and walked out too. It was a circus. This wasn't his brother he was working with. He was working with his brother's handlers. He preferred to do the right thing and walk away. And honestly, considering what Brian's subjected us to in the last fifteen years, Carl did us a favor. The show would go on, but if Brian wasn't going to be himself, then Carl wanted nothing to do with it.

It amazes me that people have the gall, the fucking nerve, to say Carl "gave up". Need I remind anyone what Carl did when he was diagnosed with his cancer? He went right back out on tour. He was the consummate professional, performing every night. He was certainly not without difficulties while doing so; he was confined to a stool for most of the shows, standing up occasionally when he took a lead vocal, and always for God Only Knows. He needed oxygen after every single song. A lesser man would have taken a cancer diagnosis as a death sentence. Carl Wilson kept putting himself out there until he couldn't anymore. People then say that Michael was a motherfucker for saying that he couldn't bear to see Carl onstage and wanted him gone. He couldn't bear to see Carl onstage in the condition he was in. I don't know how that makes Michael a motherfucker. And it's not like Michael wanted Carl "gone". He wanted Carl to try with every part of himself to beat his illness and get back out there. And I'm quite sure Carl wanted that too. Anyone who doubts that is a truly sick individual.

Carl Wilson was a trooper right until he breathed his last. He was, by far, the most levelheaded man in the group. And he was one of the lucky ones who was around to receive all of this adoration from his fans, rather than receiving it posthumously.

He didn't give up. Nature stepped in. Carl Wilson was not a quitter.

God Save Carl Wilson.
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2015, 07:46:52 AM »

I agree with everything said. I feel though that Carl never composed any songs as good as the ones on surfs up and holland again. Though the track like a brother packs an emotional wallop and heaven is pretty. It seems to me that while the bbs came up with the goods after Brian retreated the first time in 1968, they did not recover when he retreated the second time in 1978. But it wasn't just Carl, Bruce hardly wrote anything for the group after 1980 either. So really you can't blame mike for pushing a certain direction when his band mates had such  paltry material in the 80s and 90s
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 01:42:18 PM »

Alcohol and Wilsons do not combine to make good choices.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2015, 04:23:39 PM »


It amazes me that people have the gall, the fucking nerve, to say Carl "gave up".

I enjoyed and agreed with your fine post above, but I just wanted to piggyback on this one point.

I saw The Beach Boys several times post-1983 after Dennis died and Carl returned to the band, and my memories of Carl are still pretty vivid. But first, I distinctly remember interviews with Carl when he was asked how it felt to still be touring "after all these years". Carl's response was usually that he was enjoying it (touring) more than ever, that he felt the love from the fans in a live setting, and that he had no intentions of stopping the spreading of the music to the fans. As was mentioned above, Carl wasn't a bullshitter, and I believed he was being sincere.

Now, for the actual shows. When Carl returned to the band after his solo projects, he was successful in cleaning up the live act which was one of his primary goals. Carl himself was always dressed impeccably, always wearing nice shirts and jackets even in the warm weather shows. And, he was just as active as ever on the stage. I remember two separate things Carl did that stood out. When Mike introduced The Beach Boys' cheerleaders, Carl would be smiling as he led the band in a short version of Roy Orbison's "Pretty Woman". It was a nice little touch that he didn't have to do, but he obviously wanted to make a nice presentation, which it was. I also remember in the late 1980's when they performed "Wipeout". Billy Hinsche used to dress up in this gaudy outfit complete with loud jacket and hat, and he would rap to the Fat Boys' vocal part. Actually, I used to feel sorry for Billy. It reminded me of Anthony Quinn in the movie, Requiem For A Heavyweight", where he played boxer Mountain Rivera in his later wrestling years as "Chief" Mountain Rivera wearing an Indian headdress and tomahawk. But I digress...Anyway, some of the band would temporarily leave the stage, but Carl stayed out there, laughing along with Billy and playing a great solo on "Wipeout", forever the team player.

People write that Carl was tired and "gave up the fight". What fight? What was he fighting about? I always thought it was pretty smooth sailing with The Beach Boys post-1982, the Brian/Landy situation excepted. Carl was just having fun. Maybe following instead of leading? What was wrong with that - enjoying touring and playing Brian Wilson/ Beach Boys music? If you listen to his vocals on L.A. Light Album, KTSA, Beach Boys 1985, and SIP, Carl was - in my opinion - at his peak vocally.

Carl was still a relatively young man. I always had a feeling he was just...waiting, even relaxing. Do you think it was easy, touring and performing with Dennis Wilson and Brian Wilson in the late 1970's/early 1980's? Carl knew what he ultimately wanted for the group. He didn't quit, resign, give up, or was too tired. It's too bad he didn't have enough time to see his vision through because I think he would've eventually seen it come to fruition in the 2000's.
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 07:45:56 PM »

I agree with everything said. I feel though that Carl never composed any songs as good as the ones on surfs up and holland again. Though the track like a brother packs an emotional wallop and heaven is pretty. It seems to me that while the bbs came up with the goods after Brian retreated the first time in 1968, they did not recover when he retreated the second time in 1978. But it wasn't just Carl, Bruce hardly wrote anything for the group after 1980 either. So really you can't blame mike for pushing a certain direction when his band mates had such  paltry material in the 80s and 90s

I would take Carl's compositions post '78 over anything of Mike's from then.

Angel Come Home
Good Timing
Full Sail
Goin' South
KTSA
Livin' With A Heartache
Heaven
Hurry Love
What More Can I Say
She's Mine
It's Getting Late
Maybe I Don't Know
Where Do Belong
I Wish For You
Like A Brother

Carl was not prolific, but he was good.
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2015, 08:21:54 PM »

I'd give up most of those for another I Wish For You. That song, man...whew. You can hear the love in the man's voice.
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2015, 09:39:55 PM »

I already wrote a long blurb about this before, so I'll just repost it here.

Quote
From my first memories of reading about him, the first thing I thought about Carl Wilson was this - what you see is what you get. Of all of the Beach Boys, Carl was the least prone to bullshitting. He was certainly the warmest and most inviting of any of them. A perennial albatross, always up in the air, doing his own thing while still being democratic with the group.

Brian essentially had Carl as his right-hand man. And Carl was always around for his brother. And we all know that Carl was in genuine awe of his brother's talents. For someone as sensitive (in a good way) as Carl, watching his brother slowly burn out personally (forget creatively, that's a THREAD), especially when his brother was the reason he managed to become famous and successful could only have been among the most crushing blows ever dealt to him.

When Brian retreated, a whole lot of responsibility went onto Carl's (as well as Dennis') shoulders. Early on, forced to scramble and improvise around Brian's inconsistent bursts of creativity, Carl was able to develop into a much more talented artist at a rate almost as amazing as Brian had a few years before. And Carl's hard work was certainly of great artistic merit, and led the way for the band's evolution from America's preeminent pop group to a great recording and touring rock band. The world caught on too late to Carl's efforts, and by the time they were recognized, the band was starting to slow their progression to a crawl, finally sidestepping, and taking a huge step back. While I am quite sure Carl was not one to piss on or try to lessen the value the band's initial success, all of his work from when Brian stepped back to when the oldies show came running back in full force must have been disheartening for him.

There is, of course, this one conflicting story, which came from Jim Guercio, who had mentioned to the band back in late 1973 that while the shows were good, they were too loose and the audience was inconsistently entertained depending on how well-versed they were in the Beach Boys' music. He recommended that they add more of the oldies to the setlist. And the response from all of the touring band was a unanimous "yes". Where this fits in is anyone's guess.

The Beach Boys were certainly easily convinced by the almighty dollar to jump on the relentless touring bandwagon once Endless Summer became successful. There was money to be made, and they jumped at the opportunity. Sure, it's one thing to be artistic but quite another to be artistic and working from gig to gig just to survive. Carl, as the leader during their period in the desert in the early 1970s, was quite aware of that kind of burden. Their finances dropped fast, and by 1971 they were financing their tours with Brian's royalties. And this is where the conflict comes in.

Carl did want to be an artist. But once confronted with a rapidly declining Brian and Dennis on and off stage, his own troubles with Michael and Al, his marriage falling apart, and his drug and alcohol problems, he was forced to choose what was more important to him. And this was where the Beach Boys, while they were his bread and butter, became secondary to family.

Carl was able to exorcise his demons, and he wanted to have his brothers cleaned up and brought back to prominence within the group. He was a man of great patience when it came to Brian's often embarrassing live performances and rapidly lackluster studio work, and the issue of Dennis and Michael being at each other's throats would have driven most sane people over the edge. Carl was diplomatic and let Dennis off for a time to get his act together. And Dennis was able to get back in decent shape for a bit before spiraling out of control again.

But once it became obvious that it was a situation of life or death for both Brian and Dennis, Carl decided enough was enough. Family had to come first. His brothers and cousin took priority. He was instrumental in getting Brian back under Landy's care, which, while it was a bad move in the long run, was at least enough to allow Brian to return to a healthy frame of mind. And he certainly tried what he could to help Dennis. Dennis was guided by his own whims and not even the patience of Carl was enough to convince Dennis beyond a few couple-day stints in rehab. Carl even let Dennis stay with him at one point in 1983 when Dennis was homeless.

The loss of Dennis was the first blow. You can see it all over Carl's face in the press conference video the day after Dennis died. Something inside of him was gone. He had lost one of his brothers, and Brian was slowly going back to being himself. Carl's responsibility as the leader of the Beach Boys was still of importance to him; he wanted to be sure the fans were treated to a good time every day they performed. Everyone knows the stories of Carl's charity and kindness with the fans. Family still came first. I will never say that Carl gave up. He was too good to just give up on the Beach Boys and the fans. But they did become a lesser priority. And that's why as time went on, his input in the songwriting department slowed to a crawl.

When it came to the reunion in 1995, I'm sure Carl had modest expectations as to how Brian would deliver. But it soon became obvious, no matter how great the material was, that Brian was essentially being controlled again. Not by the drugs, but by his handlers. And this was something of which Carl wanted no part. He wanted to work with Brian, not with Brian's handlers. And Carl being the lucky person to put a half-hearted vocal down on Dancing The Night Away? I would have thrown up my arms and walked out too. It was a circus. This wasn't his brother he was working with. He was working with his brother's handlers. He preferred to do the right thing and walk away. And honestly, considering what Brian's subjected us to in the last fifteen years, Carl did us a favor. The show would go on, but if Brian wasn't going to be himself, then Carl wanted nothing to do with it.

It amazes me that people have the gall, the fucking nerve, to say Carl "gave up". Need I remind anyone what Carl did when he was diagnosed with his cancer? He went right back out on tour. He was the consummate professional, performing every night. He was certainly not without difficulties while doing so; he was confined to a stool for most of the shows, standing up occasionally when he took a lead vocal, and always for God Only Knows. He needed oxygen after every single song. A lesser man would have taken a cancer diagnosis as a death sentence. Carl Wilson kept putting himself out there until he couldn't anymore. People then say that Michael was a motherfucker for saying that he couldn't bear to see Carl onstage and wanted him gone. He couldn't bear to see Carl onstage in the condition he was in. I don't know how that makes Michael a motherfucker. And it's not like Michael wanted Carl "gone". He wanted Carl to try with every part of himself to beat his illness and get back out there. And I'm quite sure Carl wanted that too. Anyone who doubts that is a truly sick individual.

Carl Wilson was a trooper right until he breathed his last. He was, by far, the most levelheaded man in the group. And he was one of the lucky ones who was around to receive all of this adoration from his fans, rather than receiving it posthumously.

He didn't give up. Nature stepped in. Carl Wilson was not a quitter.

God Save Carl Wilson.
Beautifully stated - thank you for sharing.
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2015, 09:42:45 PM »

I agree with everything said. I feel though that Carl never composed any songs as good as the ones on surfs up and holland again. Though the track like a brother packs an emotional wallop and heaven is pretty. It seems to me that while the bbs came up with the goods after Brian retreated the first time in 1968, they did not recover when he retreated the second time in 1978. But it wasn't just Carl, Bruce hardly wrote anything for the group after 1980 either. So really you can't blame mike for pushing a certain direction when his band mates had such  paltry material in the 80s and 90s

I would take Carl's compositions post '78 over anything of Mike's from then.

Angel Come Home
Good Timing
Full Sail
Goin' South
KTSA
Livin' With A Heartache
Heaven
Hurry Love
What More Can I Say
She's Mine
It's Getting Late
Maybe I Don't Know
Where Do Belong
I Wish For You
Like A Brother

Carl was not prolific, but he was good.
I'd add Givin' You Up and Of the Times to that list.
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2015, 10:05:01 AM »

I already wrote a long blurb about this before, so I'll just repost it here.

Quote
From my first memories of reading about him, the first thing I thought about Carl Wilson was this - what you see is what you get. Of all of the Beach Boys, Carl was the least prone to bullshitting. He was certainly the warmest and most inviting of any of them. A perennial albatross, always up in the air, doing his own thing while still being democratic with the group.

Brian essentially had Carl as his right-hand man. And Carl was always around for his brother. And we all know that Carl was in genuine awe of his brother's talents. For someone as sensitive (in a good way) as Carl, watching his brother slowly burn out personally (forget creatively, that's a THREAD), especially when his brother was the reason he managed to become famous and successful could only have been among the most crushing blows ever dealt to him.

When Brian retreated, a whole lot of responsibility went onto Carl's (as well as Dennis') shoulders. Early on, forced to scramble and improvise around Brian's inconsistent bursts of creativity, Carl was able to develop into a much more talented artist at a rate almost as amazing as Brian had a few years before. And Carl's hard work was certainly of great artistic merit, and led the way for the band's evolution from America's preeminent pop group to a great recording and touring rock band. The world caught on too late to Carl's efforts, and by the time they were recognized, the band was starting to slow their progression to a crawl, finally sidestepping, and taking a huge step back. While I am quite sure Carl was not one to piss on or try to lessen the value the band's initial success, all of his work from when Brian stepped back to when the oldies show came running back in full force must have been disheartening for him.

There is, of course, this one conflicting story, which came from Jim Guercio, who had mentioned to the band back in late 1973 that while the shows were good, they were too loose and the audience was inconsistently entertained depending on how well-versed they were in the Beach Boys' music. He recommended that they add more of the oldies to the setlist. And the response from all of the touring band was a unanimous "yes". Where this fits in is anyone's guess.

The Beach Boys were certainly easily convinced by the almighty dollar to jump on the relentless touring bandwagon once Endless Summer became successful. There was money to be made, and they jumped at the opportunity. Sure, it's one thing to be artistic but quite another to be artistic and working from gig to gig just to survive. Carl, as the leader during their period in the desert in the early 1970s, was quite aware of that kind of burden. Their finances dropped fast, and by 1971 they were financing their tours with Brian's royalties. And this is where the conflict comes in.

Carl did want to be an artist. But once confronted with a rapidly declining Brian and Dennis on and off stage, his own troubles with Michael and Al, his marriage falling apart, and his drug and alcohol problems, he was forced to choose what was more important to him. And this was where the Beach Boys, while they were his bread and butter, became secondary to family.

Carl was able to exorcise his demons, and he wanted to have his brothers cleaned up and brought back to prominence within the group. He was a man of great patience when it came to Brian's often embarrassing live performances and rapidly lackluster studio work, and the issue of Dennis and Michael being at each other's throats would have driven most sane people over the edge. Carl was diplomatic and let Dennis off for a time to get his act together. And Dennis was able to get back in decent shape for a bit before spiraling out of control again.

But once it became obvious that it was a situation of life or death for both Brian and Dennis, Carl decided enough was enough. Family had to come first. His brothers and cousin took priority. He was instrumental in getting Brian back under Landy's care, which, while it was a bad move in the long run, was at least enough to allow Brian to return to a healthy frame of mind. And he certainly tried what he could to help Dennis. Dennis was guided by his own whims and not even the patience of Carl was enough to convince Dennis beyond a few couple-day stints in rehab. Carl even let Dennis stay with him at one point in 1983 when Dennis was homeless.

The loss of Dennis was the first blow. You can see it all over Carl's face in the press conference video the day after Dennis died. Something inside of him was gone. He had lost one of his brothers, and Brian was slowly going back to being himself. Carl's responsibility as the leader of the Beach Boys was still of importance to him; he wanted to be sure the fans were treated to a good time every day they performed. Everyone knows the stories of Carl's charity and kindness with the fans. Family still came first. I will never say that Carl gave up. He was too good to just give up on the Beach Boys and the fans. But they did become a lesser priority. And that's why as time went on, his input in the songwriting department slowed to a crawl.

When it came to the reunion in 1995, I'm sure Carl had modest expectations as to how Brian would deliver. But it soon became obvious, no matter how great the material was, that Brian was essentially being controlled again. Not by the drugs, but by his handlers. And this was something of which Carl wanted no part. He wanted to work with Brian, not with Brian's handlers. And Carl being the lucky person to put a half-hearted vocal down on Dancing The Night Away? I would have thrown up my arms and walked out too. It was a circus. This wasn't his brother he was working with. He was working with his brother's handlers. He preferred to do the right thing and walk away. And honestly, considering what Brian's subjected us to in the last fifteen years, Carl did us a favor. The show would go on, but if Brian wasn't going to be himself, then Carl wanted nothing to do with it.

It amazes me that people have the gall, the fucking nerve, to say Carl "gave up". Need I remind anyone what Carl did when he was diagnosed with his cancer? He went right back out on tour. He was the consummate professional, performing every night. He was certainly not without difficulties while doing so; he was confined to a stool for most of the shows, standing up occasionally when he took a lead vocal, and always for God Only Knows. He needed oxygen after every single song. A lesser man would have taken a cancer diagnosis as a death sentence. Carl Wilson kept putting himself out there until he couldn't anymore. People then say that Michael was a motherfucker for saying that he couldn't bear to see Carl onstage and wanted him gone. He couldn't bear to see Carl onstage in the condition he was in. I don't know how that makes Michael a motherfucker. And it's not like Michael wanted Carl "gone". He wanted Carl to try with every part of himself to beat his illness and get back out there. And I'm quite sure Carl wanted that too. Anyone who doubts that is a truly sick individual.

Carl Wilson was a trooper right until he breathed his last. He was, by far, the most levelheaded man in the group. And he was one of the lucky ones who was around to receive all of this adoration from his fans, rather than receiving it posthumously.

He didn't give up. Nature stepped in. Carl Wilson was not a quitter.

God Save Carl Wilson.

Wonderfully said, TRBB. I couldn't agree more with everything you said in that piece, fair play.
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2015, 11:10:03 AM »


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When it came to the reunion in 1995, I'm sure Carl had modest expectations as to how Brian would deliver. But it soon became obvious, no matter how great the material was, that Brian was essentially being controlled again. Not by the drugs, but by his handlers. And this was something of which Carl wanted no part. He wanted to work with Brian, not with Brian's handlers. And Carl being the lucky person to put a half-hearted vocal down on Dancing The Night Away? I would have thrown up my arms and walked out too. It was a circus. This wasn't his brother he was working with. He was working with his brother's handlers. He preferred to do the right thing and walk away. And honestly, considering what Brian's subjected us to in the last fifteen years, Carl did us a favor. The show would go on, but if Brian wasn't going to be himself, then Carl wanted nothing to do with it.



First of all, that was a nice tribute to Carl and all he had to deal with through the years. However, I'd like you to bullet point just what you mean by handlers. God only KNOWS we've been down this road before (if fact right up and through NPP), but are you insinuating that Melinda was calling the shots in 1995 while Brian was passively along for the ride? And just what does 'Carl did us a favor' really mean? Really? You prefer Nashville Sounds?

Although your essay came from a good place, I found it a little condescending towards his big brother. 
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2015, 11:12:24 AM »

Pleasure to read that, TRBB.

Beautiful.
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« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2015, 11:20:23 AM »


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When it came to the reunion in 1995, I'm sure Carl had modest expectations as to how Brian would deliver. But it soon became obvious, no matter how great the material was, that Brian was essentially being controlled again. Not by the drugs, but by his handlers. And this was something of which Carl wanted no part. He wanted to work with Brian, not with Brian's handlers. And Carl being the lucky person to put a half-hearted vocal down on Dancing The Night Away? I would have thrown up my arms and walked out too. It was a circus. This wasn't his brother he was working with. He was working with his brother's handlers. He preferred to do the right thing and walk away. And honestly, considering what Brian's subjected us to in the last fifteen years, Carl did us a favor. The show would go on, but if Brian wasn't going to be himself, then Carl wanted nothing to do with it.



First of all, that was a nice tribute to Carl and all he had to deal with through the years. However, I'd like you to bullet point just what you mean by handlers. God only KNOWS we've been down this road before (if fact right up and through NPP), but are you insinuating that Melinda was calling the shots in 1995 while Brian was passively along for the ride? And just what does 'Carl did us a favor' really mean? Really? You prefer Nashville Sounds?

Although your essay came from a good place, I found it a little condescending towards his big brother. 

The quote above is also reading like the opinions of what may have happened coming from a fan and outside observer are being stated more as fact than the opinions and guesses they actually are. Are we sure Carl wanted to do this or do that or anything as emphatically as stated above? Who bailed on Soul Searchin and tried to get Brian to work with Sean McCreavey and why? The main guys involved in the music in 94-95 were Don Was and Andy Paley, were they "handlers" or the guys Carl didn't want to work with?

And the age old question again, who are or were the "handlers" that keep getting mentioned?
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« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2015, 11:23:18 AM »

The "handlers" are the boogymen that people who don't like BW's recent decisions on music or certain BBs members use when BW doesn't want to deal with them.
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« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2015, 11:48:39 AM »

The "handlers" is the old conspiracy theory. I left it in the essay because it was right to present the entire thing as a reflection of where I was at when I wrote it. I don't believe the "handlers" thing anymore.
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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2015, 08:16:18 PM »

The "handlers" is the old conspiracy theory. I left it in the essay because it was right to present the entire thing as a reflection of where I was at when I wrote it. I don't believe the "handlers" thing anymore.
I believe the handlers thing. Brian found out long ago there was too steep a price to pay in standing up for what he wanted, so he chooses to go through life letting his handlers make the big decisions. It may not result in great art, but it makes it much easier to sleep at night.
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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2015, 08:38:24 PM »

The "handlers" is the old conspiracy theory. I left it in the essay because it was right to present the entire thing as a reflection of where I was at when I wrote it. I don't believe the "handlers" thing anymore.
I believe the handlers thing. Brian found out long ago there was too steep a price to pay in standing up for what he wanted, so he chooses to go through life letting his handlers make the big decisions. It may not result in great art, but it makes it much easier to sleep at night.

I highly doubt Melinda would ever let Brian be coaxed into being "handled".  He might have a lot of help to make his decisions but in the end, they are his decisions.
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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2015, 10:26:46 PM »

I highly doubt Melinda would ever let Brian be coaxed into being "handled".  He might have a lot of help to make his decisions but in the end, they are his decisions.

Are they tho?

Though Wilson seems more eager to finish the material he's done with Andy Paley than to return to St. Charles, Melinda says he's obligated to do another record with Thomas. She calls the Paley — Wilson material "great therapy" but says his vocals are not up to par and believes the production isn't good enough to be released commercially. As is often the case with Brian's career, Brian doesn't seem to be the one calling the shots. "I'd like to stay here in L.A., but we built the studio, so I guess I have to go," he says simply.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/brians-summer-plans-19990708#ixzz3kGz6Y7XI
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
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« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2015, 10:56:04 PM »

To be fair, that story is 16 years old. He probably was contractually obliged to return. It also says this...

This is the Brian Wilson people hope still exists: absorbed in his music, inspired, possessing a self-confidence he rarely shows. Despite all the disappointments, indecision and self-doubt, right now, sitting at the piano in his living room, he is in charge.



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« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2015, 10:59:09 PM »

I highly doubt Melinda would ever let Brian be coaxed into being "handled".  He might have a lot of help to make his decisions but in the end, they are his decisions.

Are they tho?

Though Wilson seems more eager to finish the material he's done with Andy Paley than to return to St. Charles, Melinda says he's obligated to do another record with Thomas. She calls the Paley — Wilson material "great therapy" but says his vocals are not up to par and believes the production isn't good enough to be released commercially. As is often the case with Brian's career, Brian doesn't seem to be the one calling the shots. "I'd like to stay here in L.A., but we built the studio, so I guess I have to go," he says simply.



And where is that immediate Imagination follow-up that BW recorded with Thomas?

Oh, that's right. It didn't happen.

Why not? Because BW kicked Joe out of the band.
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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2015, 05:40:39 AM »

I highly doubt Melinda would ever let Brian be coaxed into being "handled".  He might have a lot of help to make his decisions but in the end, they are his decisions.

Are they tho?

Though Wilson seems more eager to finish the material he's done with Andy Paley than to return to St. Charles, Melinda says he's obligated to do another record with Thomas. She calls the Paley — Wilson material "great therapy" but says his vocals are not up to par and believes the production isn't good enough to be released commercially. As is often the case with Brian's career, Brian doesn't seem to be the one calling the shots. "I'd like to stay here in L.A., but we built the studio, so I guess I have to go," he says simply.



And where is that immediate Imagination follow-up that BW recorded with Thomas?

Oh, that's right. It didn't happen.

Why not? Because BW kicked Joe out of the band.

Then brought him back into the "band" and released the tracks as TWGMTR
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