Don't F**k With the Formula

[Andrew G. Doe]

My thoughts

- Michael saying "Don't f*** With The Formula" isn't some great crime, it was his opinion and many would argue he was right.  Even if you feel he was completely wrong, you can't hate on somebody for having a different opinion than yours, people should be able to discuss things they disagree with, that's how we all learn.  I don't see anything egregious about that statement if he ever even made it.  It's just an opinion, man.

An opinion, yes. Mike's, no. Suppose I'd asked Voyle Giilmore, and he'd said it was a Capitol suit and not Mike. End of discussion. 

[Cool Cool Water]

STORY:   One afternoon I observed Brian in the studio pacing around. Soon Carl, then Alan, Michael, Dennis and Bruce all showed up for session work. They talked about what songs they wanted worked on that day. But soon Brian said he wanted to have a business meeting. Everyone said, oh come on Brian, can’t we do this later?” But Brian insisten on a meeting at that time. What he said surprised me. He said, “ I want to change the name of The Beach Boys to The Beach. He went on to say how they are not “boys” anymore so why should be beach boys?  Well this went on for ten minutes or so, and then Brian wrote out a statement on a piece of paper that read, “The Beach Boys official change their name to The Beach.” Brian actually got four of the six to sign the paper. Then everyone was ready to start recording and Brian was in a good frame of mind. That evening I was cleaning up and found the slip of paper Brian had written with its signatures. I still have it. It is legally meaningless, but just a memento now. (I haven’t seen it for several years, but it’s around here somewhere). The point is that during these business meetings, many things are said, just the same as during any business meeting, and you can take anything made during a discussion, out of context, to serve your needs. – or to tell a story.
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Amazing story, thanks!

[Empire Of Love]

End of discussion, except...

Here's how Al defined it:

Mike was very confused by [Pet Sounds]. I wasn’t exactly thrilled with the change, but I grew to appreciate it as soon as we started to work on it. … Mike’s a formula hound – if it doesn’t have a hook in it, if he can’t hear a hook in it, he doesn’t want to know about it.

So maybe not as clear cut as you are saying Andrew.  Or is the quote above fabricated?

EoL

[Moon Dawg]

They went back to the formula with "Do it Again". Which shot to #1 with a bullet, oh, sorry, it didn't. (I do love the song).

  As a matter of fact it did - U.K. charts.

[filledeplage]

They went back to the formula with "Do it Again". Which shot to #1 with a bullet, oh, sorry, it didn't. (I do love the song)

This is all utter nonsense. In a November 14, 1964 Melody Maker interview, Mike told them that "he" (Mike) and the band wanted to look beyond surf rock, wanting to avoid living in the past, or resting on their laurels."

Brian had written his last surf song in 1964, and intended All Summer Long (July, 1964) to be the group's final statement on beach-themed music. (All Muisic) Richie Unterberger.

The purported "formula" statement is inconsistent with these earlier-in-time statements.

And I so love Do It Again, too!  (Summer of 1968!) 

[Sheriff John Stone]

They went back to the formula with "Do it Again". Which shot to #1 with a bullet, oh, sorry, it didn't. (I do love the song).

  As a matter of fact it did - U.K. charts.

It reached No. 20 in the U.S., the last time a Brian Wilson-penned single reached the Top 20 ... 47 years ago.


Yes, I know about "The Beach Boys Medley".

[filledeplage]

They went back to the formula with "Do it Again". Which shot to #1 with a bullet, oh, sorry, it didn't. (I do love the song).

  As a matter of fact it did - U.K. charts.

It reached No. 20 in the U.S., the last time a Brian Wilson-penned single reached the Top 20 ... 47 years ago.


Yes, I know about "The Beach Boys Medley".

In certain markets it did much better, such as LA, it was #3, Boston, #6, Chicago #1, NY #8.

US Cash Box, it was #8
US Record World - #7

It is reported that Brian and Mike wrote it in 15 minutes.

[Smilin Ed H]

And it's hardly formulaic. It's a beautiful piece of nostalgia and when they tried it again (It's Okay, KTSA, for example), it sounded like another band who had the wrong idea of what the Boys were about.

[Cam Mott]

I don't think anybody has hit on anything that would fit as a explanation for "formula".  First, Good Vibrations.  Second, H & V, which Mike has praised as an example of Brian's dynamic competitiveness. Third,  Smiley Smile.

[Cam Mott]

"It got too hard for David. He couldn't deal with explaining something five or six separate times for five or six separate people. And there was no way to get them to agree to a single course of action when they all had their own personal desires.

Mike Love was the tough one for David. Mike really befriended David: He wanted his aid in going one direction while David was trying to take it the opposite way. Mike kept saying, "You're so good, you know so much, you're so realistic, you can do all this for us — why not do it this way," and David would say, "Because Brian wants it that way." "Gotta be this way." David really holds Mike Love responsible for the collapse. Mike wanted the bread, "and don't f*** with the formula.""

Somebody may have suggested this already but if this turns out to be the first use of the phrase, its context doesn't seem to be music "formula", it seems to be a business "formula". That would explain the trouble with trying to fit it into a music formula over the decades.

Edit: also Nolan could just be quoting Anderle's words about Mike and not quoting Anderle quoting Mike. A characterization of Mike's attitude in Anderle's words. That would explain it being words in the context of being said by Anderle that also Mike says he never said.

[filledeplage]

I don't think anybody has hit on anything that would fit as a explanation for "formula".  First, Good Vibrations.  Second, H & V, which Mike has praised as an example of Brian's dynamic competitiveness. Third,  Smiley Smile.

That convinces me more than ever that it is nonsense.

Work that evolved from the outset, from both Brian and Mike which was lyrical or ballad ( and very risky for the marketplace, including Surfer Girl, ) show a definite ramping up in sophistication and growth. They weren't going backwards.  And it could hardly be classified as "new" except with "newbies" (some charlatans) to the "sphere" who might have wanted the attribution of "influence" dropped in their laps.  

Looking at the actual or covered published work...it was always looking forward.

Lonely Sea
Ballad of ole Betsy
Warmth of the Sun
Keep an Eye on Summer
Blue Christmas
In My Room
We'll Run Away
Girls on the Beach
Your Summer Dream

Pet Sounds was not "new" music. It was the next step in the progression. It was a "perception" ( a false one, at that) and not a "reality." It was an assemblage of the parts they already created.  

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But regardless of whether or not those exact words were uttered, we can agree that Brian's music from about Pet Sounds forward was met with considerable hostility and opposition and that this has been largely downplayed in the years since, right?

[guitarfool2002]

if Mike had doubts about the "new" music around the time of Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations, and the Smile Sessions, on things like alienating the band's fanbase and changing the sound and direction of the music, he had an ally who thought the same way and also wasn't shy about expressing it.

Murry Wilson.

[filledeplage]

But regardless of whether or not those exact words were uttered, we can agree that Brian's music from about Pet Sounds forward was met with considerable hostility and opposition and that this has been largely downplayed in the years since, right?

A listen to vocals on Pet Sounds Sessions tells that the band's vocals were "putting forth best effort" (as the old report cards say) so, where is the next place to look for a source?

People who work hard at a trade, such as carpenters or electricians, or are writers, or teachers, get better as they work at it.  They had about 7 years at their "trade" which is often a career sweet spot.  

But I feel that the record company took this band for granted.  But still didn't mind them as a cash cow. I don't think they (the core members) took each other for granted.  

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But regardless of whether or not those exact words were uttered, we can agree that Brian's music from about Pet Sounds forward was met with considerable hostility and opposition and that this has been largely downplayed in the years since, right?

A listen to vocals on Pet Sounds Sessions tells that the band's vocals were "putting forth best effort" (as the old report cards say) so, where is the next place to look for a source?

The consistent comments made by numerous people who were in a position to know.

[filledeplage]

if Mike had doubts about the "new" music around the time of Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations, and the Smile Sessions, on things like alienating the band's fanbase and changing the sound and direction of the music, he had an ally who thought the same way and also wasn't shy about expressing it.

Murry Wilson.

But did he? Could he? How could the vocals have been "that good" if there was a conflict?

And the Melody Maker quote is in direct conflict with these "formula" theories.

Murry? Good point. Could he have undermined the band while on tour?

And could he have been lobbying for Best of Vol 1, only eight weeks post Pet sounds release? Did Murry have that influence, holding the SOT catalog control?  

[filledeplage]

But regardless of whether or not those exact words were uttered, we can agree that Brian's music from about Pet Sounds forward was met with considerable hostility and opposition and that this has been largely downplayed in the years since, right?

A listen to vocals on Pet Sounds Sessions tells that the band's vocals were "putting forth best effort" (as the old report cards say) so, where is the next place to look for a source?

The consistent comments made by numerous people who were in a position to know.

Position to know? Or, position to agree on an adopted false narrative, that had taken on a life of it's own?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But regardless of whether or not those exact words were uttered, we can agree that Brian's music from about Pet Sounds forward was met with considerable hostility and opposition and that this has been largely downplayed in the years since, right?

A listen to vocals on Pet Sounds Sessions tells that the band's vocals were "putting forth best effort" (as the old report cards say) so, where is the next place to look for a source?

The consistent comments made by numerous people who were in a position to know.

Position to know? Or, position to agree on an adopted false narrative, that had taken on a life of it's own?

Well, those two things are not mutually exclusive. But if you have evidence that Brian Wilson, Marilyn Wilson, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston, Danny Hutton, Tony Asher, David Anderle, Van Dyke Parks, and Derek Taylor conspired to agree on a false narrative, I'd be curious to see it.

Besides, we know for sure that it's not an entirely false narrative since we have key members such as Jardine and Johnston outwardly talking negatively about big Brian projects such as the Breakaway single and the entire Friends album.

[Empire Of Love]

They went back to the formula with "Do it Again". Which shot to #1 with a bullet, oh, sorry, it didn't. (I do love the song)

This is all utter nonsense. In a November 14, 1964 Melody Maker interview, Mike told them that "he" (Mike) and the band wanted to look beyond surf rock, wanting to avoid living in the past, or resting on their laurels."

Brian had written his last surf song in 1964, and intended All Summer Long (July, 1964) to be the group's final statement on beach-themed music. (All Muisic) Richie Unterberger.

The purported "formula" statement is inconsistent with these earlier-in-time statements.

And I so love Do It Again, too!  (Summer of 1968!) 

Looking beyond surf rock simply is not mutually exclusive to not effing with the formula.  Right or wrong I believe the argument has always been that around the time of Pet Sounds and Smile Mike wanted to prioritize commercial success over art/experimentation while Brian want to experiment and take things in a new direction - and I think he wanted to take the record buying public along with him, I don't think he ever wanted to be avante guard and/or inaccessible, to the dismay of the hip/indie/Sean O'Hagan crowd.  I think Brian and Mike could have continued to be a good team, something of a balancing act.  It worked on Good Vibrations: Brian's complex, forward looking but accessible music with Mike's accessible lyrics (versus VDPs more obscure lyrics).  Perhaps there could have been a compromise, but I think Mike's talents and ability to keep up with Brian were maxed out and/or stuck in the early 60s (not that he didn't show flashes of brilliance later, but he is a lesser lyricist than Brian is a song writer).  Additionally I would think that Brian's personal problems (if you do any reading you may have heard Mike mention them once or twice) had a polarizing affect: if Brian is going this far out, then I'm going to the other extreme to balance it out.  It would be a natural  reaction, especially if Mike, and people in general, did not have an understanding of mental illness and what Brian was struggling with.

With that said, I have no idea how one can cite Good Vibrations as evidence Mike didn't have a "don't eff with the formula" outlook.  H&V is a better example, potentially, though it's a really exciting song and could easily be mistaken for a hit.  But what did Mike do, praise the song when they recorded it?  Write the lyrics?  I'm just not persuaded by a couple of exceptions to the rule of what Brian and Al and other eye witnesses have said for years.  It seems, at best, to be a case of the exception proves the rule.  At best.

[clack]

But regardless of whether or not those exact words were uttered, we can agree that Brian's music from about Pet Sounds forward was met with considerable hostility and opposition and that this has been largely downplayed in the years since, right?

I think it's fairly clear that Pet Sounds and SMiLE met with some initial dismay from Mike and Al at least. By the time of Smiley Smile, the overall music scene had shifted and the entire band was seemingly now on board for a more adventurous direction.

What is also clear is the "formula", whatever that is or was,  did not involve surf and car songs -- but that's a myth that I don't expect to die any time soon.

[guitarfool2002]

Murry Wilson was bad-mouthing "Good Vibrations" in late 1966 to any number of people around Brian and the band, and one of the points he tried to use to Michael Vosse when he got around to him was that the song shouldn't have been released because they'll lose the old fanbase. Also read between the lines when you read interviews and comments from Michael Vosse and David Anderle and others and try to connect the dots when they bring up the negatives surrounding the "family" within and immediately surrounding the band. They weren't talking about Dennis, probably not Carl until after Smile, we know where Marilyn stood on what she saw happening...who's left in that "family" surrounding and within the band?

[Cam Mott]

But regardless of whether or not those exact words were uttered, we can agree that Brian's music from about Pet Sounds forward was met with considerable hostility and opposition and that this has been largely downplayed in the years since, right?

Nope.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But regardless of whether or not those exact words were uttered, we can agree that Brian's music from about Pet Sounds forward was met with considerable hostility and opposition and that this has been largely downplayed in the years since, right?

I think it's fairly clear that Pet Sounds and SMiLE met with some initial dismay from Mike and Al at least. By the time of Smiley Smile, the overall music scene had shifted and the entire band was seemingly now on board for a more adventurous direction.

Except that Bruce is on record as not liking the Friends album; Al thought Brian under-produced Breakaway; he also didn't seem to care for Brian's version of Cotton Fields; Brian has noted the band's opposition to the Ol' Man River recordings; Bruce observed how an (unnamed) member of the band put down Til I Die when he heard it; also, I'm not entirely sure if the band ever commented on Mt. Vernon & Fairway. If anyone has any direct quotes, I'd be curious to see them.

What is also clear is the "formula", whatever that is or was,  did not involve surf and car songs -- but that's a myth that I don't expect to die any time soon.

Absolutely true. But I don't think when, say, Derek Taylor used the term in the 70s or when Al Jardine used the term in the 90s to explain the band's opposition to Brian's mid-60s music, they weren't saying that the formula was "surf and car songs." What is clear though is that several people are on record as suggesting that this notion of "formula" whether stated explicitly or not, was an underlying issue for certain players in the band.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But regardless of whether or not those exact words were uttered, we can agree that Brian's music from about Pet Sounds forward was met with considerable hostility and opposition and that this has been largely downplayed in the years since, right?

Nope.

In that case, do you think that the comments for the band since, say, 2000, have generally reaffirmed these quotes?

Pet Sounds

Tony Asher: And they didn’t know I was even there. And they’d say things like, I don’t know why we’re recording this these stupid songs anyway. And I thought, why am I sitting here listening to that? I don’t need to.

Al: Mike was very confused by [Pet Sounds]. I wasn’t exactly thrilled with the change, but I grew to appreciate it as soon as we started to work on it. … Mike’s a formula hound – if it doesn’t have a hook in it, if he can’t hear a hook in it, he doesn’t want to know about it.

Brian: Mike said, “Gee, this is too much of a departure.” And I said, but Mike I got to do it this way for just one album. He goes, “All right. One album.”

Good Vibrations

Did everybody support what you were trying to do?
BRIAN: No, not everybody. There was a lot of "oh you can't do this, that's too modern" or "that's going to be too long a record." I said no, it's not going to be too long a record, it's going to be just right.
Who resisted you? Your manager? The record company?
BRIAN: No, people in the group, but I can't tell ya who. We just had resisting ideas. They didn't quite understand what this jumping from studio to studio was all about. And they couldn't conceive of the record as I did. I saw the record as a totality piece.

Smile

Anderle: The Beach Boys as a band were in England at the time, they were having a great time there, throwing The Beatles out of the number one spot. When they got back, and Brian started playing them the music he had done for the Smile album, and they started to question Brian about the lyric content … and suddenly everything that been a year and a half, 2 years of complete positive vibes, now became very negative vibes.

Parks: The friction was so great that, as he was just achieving the apex of his creative arc, he abandoned the project, I think in the interests of…social harmony? And Smile was left unfinished, for that reason.

Anderle: [Smile] wasn’t done mainly because he had to put their voices on it – he had to get them to sing those Van Dyke Parks lyrics, and it wasn’t easy for Carl, and Mike and the boys to sing some of those – strange lyrics.

Parks: I wasn’t close enough to the other guys. I was in a position of defending my lyrics … Mike Love said to me one day: “Explain this: Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield.” And it was an American Gothic trip that Brian and I were working on. I said, “I don’t know what these lyrics are all about. They’re not important. Throw them away.” And so they did.

Derek Taylor:  "A key factor in the breakdown had to be the Beach Boys themselves, whose stubbornness by this time had seemingly twisted itself into a grim determination to undermine the very foundations of this 'new music' in order to get back to the old accepted, dumb formulas."

Marilyn: I think it was like ‘OK you assholes, you think you can do as good as me or whatever – go ahead, you do it. You think it’s so easy? You do it.” … and I don’t think ever really came back. I don’t think he ever had the need…he was just torn down, he really was. They slowly tore him down. I hate to say it, but they did.

Friends

Bruce: It’s not a bunch of great songs. They’re pretty light. … No, that’s a pretty lightweight album. I mean, I love “Friends.” I love the songs “Friends.” … But the album – I’m surprised it got to 126. Maybe 1026 might be more appropriate.

Breakaway

Al: I was really disappointed and frustrated by how this one ended up. We knew we had 90% of a good record, but typical of his late 60s mentality, Brian underproduced and undersold the ending of the record.

Til I Die

Johnston remembers Brian “playing it for the band and one member of the band didn't understand it and put it down, and Brian just decided not to show it to us for a few months. He just put it away. I mean, he was absolutely crushed. This other person just didn't like it.”

[guitarfool2002]

And it was nothing new. Listen to the Help Me Rhonda vocal session with Murry. Specifically the ending minutes when Brian switched on the portable tape recorder to record the conversation after the session. Why do you think Brian would say something like "so you want the 409 sound on Help Me Rhonda?" to his dad? It was an issue before Pet Sounds about changing the sounds and losing the fanbase.

One that is pure speculation from those same tapes, consider this: After one of Murry's rants, why would he go to Mike looking for a supportive voice? Isn't Murry captured on tape saying to Mike "you know what I'm trying to say, don't you Mike?" or words to that effect? Brian and Dennis especially were putting up resistance to Murry's "sing from the heart" and "make records like we used to" kind of ranting among Murry's other gems captured on that tape, Al was playing along since he was getting his second lead vocal ever on what was slated as the next big BB's single, Carl wasn't saying much...and Murry tries to win support from Mike that day? Coincidence or not?