gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
609680 Posts in 24647 Topics by 3511 Members - Latest Member: FredGroman June 24, 2017, 06:59:08 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Don't F**k With the Formula  (Read 19815 times)
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #325 on: August 25, 2015, 02:49:08 PM »

I seem to recall 'Gettin' Hungry' being a Capitol label Brian Wilson/Mike Love release rather than a Beach Boys release.  THAT was strange to me...as was the previously released 'Caroline No' by some guy named Brian Wilson.  [Both songs were on Beach Boys albums obviously although maybe 'Caroline No' beat the release of Pet Sounds by a few days/weeks.  Smiley Smile was out before the other single in question was issued]

The Boys had their own record company moving to try and get things organized as Capitol figured they were 'history' and just tossed everything at the wall to see if anything would  stick.  Everybody LOST.  Anderle wasn't there to set things up and then leave.  He was going to run Brother Records.  And run properly it could have provided him with all he needed for the rest of his professional life.  Of course THAT would have been the best case scenario.  Anderle's 'take' on things was as accurate as it gets.  Until he and Brian had their 'falling out'  NOBODY was more 'inside' than David Anderle.  What a catastrophe!!!  What a shame.  What a waste.  What a PISSER!!!!!

The true answer to why Gettin' Hungry was released as "Brian and Mike" must be out there somewhere. I think it seems like a statement was trying to be made just as much as the Caroline No single was trying to make a statement.

Are Brian and Mike the only people who would know? I'm guessing that's the case. Maybe Mike would let someone know if he was asked. I doubt Brian would address it, but maybe he would. I wonder if any fanboy/girl has ever asked him over 48 years.

There is a PS era Brian interview out there where Brian explains it as something like it was a plan to put out an occasional BBs' single with individual Boys names on it. Apparently the plan only got as far as C,N and GH.

Edit: Well, I haven't found that one but I found another explanation for C,N:

“Actually it’s an album track that we thought was good enough for a single. We’re releasing it under my name because there’ll be another
Beach Boys single out soon”, Brian explained as he and Tracy Thomas drove in his “daffodil” Jaguar from a recording session."   NME 3/11/66
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 03:00:23 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3912



View Profile
« Reply #326 on: August 25, 2015, 03:21:30 PM »

I seem to recall 'Gettin' Hungry' being a Capitol label Brian Wilson/Mike Love release rather than a Beach Boys release.  THAT was strange to me...as was the previously released 'Caroline No' by some guy named Brian Wilson.  [Both songs were on Beach Boys albums obviously although maybe 'Caroline No' beat the release of Pet Sounds by a few days/weeks.  Smiley Smile was out before the other single in question was issued]

The Boys had their own record company moving to try and get things organized as Capitol figured they were 'history' and just tossed everything at the wall to see if anything would  stick.  Everybody LOST.  Anderle wasn't there to set things up and then leave.  He was going to run Brother Records.  And run properly it could have provided him with all he needed for the rest of his professional life.  Of course THAT would have been the best case scenario.  Anderle's 'take' on things was as accurate as it gets.  Until he and Brian had their 'falling out'  NOBODY was more 'inside' than David Anderle.  What a catastrophe!!!  What a shame.  What a waste.  What a PISSER!!!!!

The true answer to why Gettin' Hungry was released as "Brian and Mike" must be out there somewhere. I think it seems like a statement was trying to be made just as much as the Caroline No single was trying to make a statement.

Are Brian and Mike the only people who would know? I'm guessing that's the case. Maybe Mike would let someone know if he was asked. I doubt Brian would address it, but maybe he would. I wonder if any fanboy/girl has ever asked him over 48 years.

There is a PS era Brian interview out there where Brian explains it as something like it was a plan to put out an occasional BBs' single with individual Boys names on it. Apparently the plan only got as far as C,N and GH.

Edit: Well, I haven't found that one but I found another explanation for C,N:

“Actually it’s an album track that we thought was good enough for a single. We’re releasing it under my name because there’ll be another
Beach Boys single out soon”, Brian explained as he and Tracy Thomas drove in his “daffodil” Jaguar from a recording session."   NME 3/11/66

That's basically a complete non-reason, and I don't really buy it. Here's the thing... if Brian was "testing the waters" so to speak, would he have wanted to make that a publicly known thing? And deal with potentially awkward followup questions about the motives? I'd guess no, so whatever the true reason(s) for it, I don't think Brian or the band would have let become fully public.
Logged
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #327 on: August 25, 2015, 03:38:16 PM »

I seem to recall 'Gettin' Hungry' being a Capitol label Brian Wilson/Mike Love release rather than a Beach Boys release.

Nope. Brother 1002.
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #328 on: August 25, 2015, 04:16:37 PM »

That's basically a complete non-reason, and I don't really buy it. Here's the thing... if Brian was "testing the waters" so to speak, would he have wanted to make that a publicly known thing? And deal with potentially awkward followup questions about the motives? I'd guess no, so whatever the true reason(s) for it, I don't think Brian or the band would have let become fully public.

OK.

(crickets)

(tumbleweed)

Did you realize that C,N was released on March 7 and SJB on March 21?
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Add Some
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1380



View Profile
« Reply #329 on: August 25, 2015, 06:33:09 PM »

I seem to recall 'Gettin' Hungry' being a Capitol label Brian Wilson/Mike Love release rather than a Beach Boys release.

Nope. Brother 1002.

Still came out on the old yellow/orange Capitol 'swirl' in Canada Andrew.  Likely on behalf of Brother...but except for the fine print...it was hard to tell the difference.  Sunflower was the first lp I saw that wasn't on a Capitol, black with the multi coloured rim, album label too.  Smiley, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20 all had the Capitol 'look'.  Live in London too.
Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Y O U  voted for Trump?   "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "Make America Immigrate Again!!!"  2-faced arsewipist!!!
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3912



View Profile
« Reply #330 on: August 25, 2015, 06:49:36 PM »

That's basically a complete non-reason, and I don't really buy it. Here's the thing... if Brian was "testing the waters" so to speak, would he have wanted to make that a publicly known thing? And deal with potentially awkward followup questions about the motives? I'd guess no, so whatever the true reason(s) for it, I don't think Brian or the band would have let become fully public.

OK.

(crickets)

(tumbleweed)

Did you realize that C,N was released on March 7 and SJB on March 21?

Fair enough. But it's also worth noting that Brian is the only vocal band member on his first solo outing, which of course makes sense for that to be the case. I doubt it happened solely just for the hell of it.  Because if by some fluke it had done some major chart action, that could have caused a chain reaction of all sorts of things that could've happened as a result.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7244



View Profile WWW
« Reply #331 on: August 25, 2015, 08:12:01 PM »

I seem to recall 'Gettin' Hungry' being a Capitol label Brian Wilson/Mike Love release rather than a Beach Boys release.

Nope. Brother 1002.

Still came out on the old yellow/orange Capitol 'swirl' in Canada Andrew.  Likely on behalf of Brother...but except for the fine print...it was hard to tell the difference.  Sunflower was the first lp I saw that wasn't on a Capitol, black with the multi coloured rim, album label too.  Smiley, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20 all had the Capitol 'look'.  Live in London too.

Logged

"I will never change with what I think happened in here and you will never convince me otherwise." - Dr. Beach Boy.
"There was no up front fees, period. swedishfrog  and I paid for the domain name. As of June 19, 2016 at 4:32pm edt, that is all I was charged for." - Dr. Beach Boy

www.domainsbyproxy.com

"Who is paying the bills?" - guitarfool2002
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #332 on: August 27, 2015, 12:46:17 PM »

I seem to recall 'Gettin' Hungry' being a Capitol label Brian Wilson/Mike Love release rather than a Beach Boys release.

Nope. Brother 1002

Still came out on the old yellow/orange Capitol 'swirl' in Canada Andrew. 

Not relevant, as Canada isn't the canonical discography, any more than the UK is. In the US it was on the Brother label.
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
terrei
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 52


View Profile
« Reply #333 on: June 12, 2017, 09:46:42 AM »

From Mike's book:

Quote
By the time Leaf's book was published, Anderle told Leaf that my quote “was taken slightly out of context.” It was still used.

When and where did Anderle say this exactly? And what was his full explanation?
Logged
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7234



View Profile
« Reply #334 on: June 12, 2017, 10:09:32 AM »

But then again, Mike claim Anderle stole the BBs catalog for A&M Records. Roll Eyes
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3912



View Profile
« Reply #335 on: June 12, 2017, 11:10:32 AM »

From Mike's book:

Quote
By the time Leaf's book was published, Anderle told Leaf that my quote “was taken slightly out of context.” It was still used.

When and where did Anderle say this exactly? And what was his full explanation?

Did Mike ever claim that this wasn't at least insinuated (by him, to Brian) to a point?
Logged
cube_monkey
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 67


View Profile
« Reply #336 on: June 12, 2017, 11:30:49 AM »

From another perspective.  I was the dumb public at the time and  in my early teens.  My friends big brother had the 2fer set Pet Sounds/Carl and the Passions.  Being clueless,  We put on the Carl and the Passions record and we didn't know who "these people" were. Smiley  Then once we got it,  we thought they changed the name of the band to Carl and the Passions. Smiley     We wore out the record
listening to it so much. Smiley   


Logged
terrei
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 52


View Profile
« Reply #337 on: June 12, 2017, 11:38:19 AM »

The quote was allegedly printed for the first time in the 1971 Nolan article. In the context it was invoked, Anderle seemed to have been talking about the business formula, not the music formula, although there was a mention that the other Beach Boys were "freaked out" by Brian's new music. In the other Anderle statements from 1968, there is no ambiguity on the subject. "Don't f*** with the formula" = "let's go back to boy-girl surf songs".

So why did Anderle say that the quote was taken out of context? In his belief, what was the "formula" that was being "f***ed with"?

(Almost all of the quotations in Mike's book were public statements. I don't know if "taken slightly out of context" was printed anywhere, but I assume it can be found in Leaf's book. How else would Mike know what Anderle said to Leaf?)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 11:42:16 AM by terrei » Logged
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3912



View Profile
« Reply #338 on: June 12, 2017, 12:09:48 PM »


 In the other Anderle statements from 1968, there is no ambiguity on the subject. "Don't f*** with the formula" = "let's go back to boy-girl surf songs".
 

At minimum, I don't know how there can be *any* doubt that it was absolutely Mike's desire for the formula to be that Mike should be the primary person writing songs with Brian. At the very, very least, the formula for Mike must be that Mike has regular songwriting input. He can want that all he wants, he just has to own it. Mike's even trying to insinuate that Pet Sounds needed more Mike writing input. Even now with 50 year hindsight, he says this stuff; it sounds like a caricature of Mike, a joke that some troll would make up, but it's actually legit.

Does anyone think Mike wasn't guilt tripping his cousin into trying to make sure that BW/ML collabs would happen? To this day, Mike keeps harping about broken promises to get to write with Brian in the manner that Mike chooses; and he keeps bringing up the "winning formula" of Brian and Mike being the "ideal".

Based on so, so many interviews and actions of Mike, how is a stretch for anyone to think that Mike was then and is now a guy who wants that above formula to not be f*cked with?

I just don't see how it's even a question of that being his desire. Whether we define the formula as boy/girl songs, surf/car songs, or Brian/Mike songs, no matter how one spins it, those all in some way are formulas that Mike has always desired not be changed. He has every right to want that, but he is absurd to imply that such a quote is some sort of absurd stretch of the imagination seeing as he is so absolutely, unquestionably hung up on the Brian/Mike songwriting partnership formula.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 12:22:48 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
terrei
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 52


View Profile
« Reply #339 on: June 12, 2017, 12:37:23 PM »

I don't see anything stated by Anderle on that point. From the book Words and Music of Brian Wilson (2017) (the only other source I can find for the quote being "taken out of context"):

Quote
“Don't f*** with the formula,” a quote frequently attributed to Mike Love was a reminder that Brian should not forget what brought success, fame, and riches to the band: namely, a winning formula that encompassed themes of fun, sun, surf, cars.  Anderle believes this quote has been taken out of context, as Mike was focused on the bottom line and less concerned with the “artistic” side of the business equation.

So by "bottom line", "don't f*** with the formula" = "don't leave me out of royalties for this album"? Is that really what Anderle meant? Would like a direct quote to be 100% sure. From the Nolan article:

Quote
Mike Love was the tough one for David. Mike really befriended David: He wanted his aid in going one direction while David was trying to take it the opposite way. Mike kept saying, "You're so good, you know so much, you're so realistic, you can do all this for us — why not do it this way," and David would say, "Because Brian wants it that way." "Gotta be this way." David really holds Mike Love responsible for the collapse. Mike wanted the bread, "and don't f*** with the formula."

I'm still not sure how this is "out of context".
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 12:39:34 PM by terrei » Logged
thorgil
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 360


GREAT post, Rab!


View Profile
« Reply #340 on: June 14, 2017, 04:35:59 AM »

It's such a pity that Mike didn't ask for Al Jardiine's collaboration on this formula thing.
The result would have been that the infamous "Don't .... with the formula" would have been replaced by a much gentler (and cleaner, of course) "Don't go near the formula".
So, Brian would not have been shocked, and on the contrary would have felt more than justified in staying the heck away from the formula (if you take my meaning).
So, maybe history as we know it would have changed for the better.
Logged

It is one of the blessings of old friends that you can afford to be stupid with them. (Ralph W. Emerson)l
terrei
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 52


View Profile
« Reply #341 on: June 15, 2017, 04:58:49 AM »

I've tried looking for a contemporary quote - from anybody - saying something along the lines of "Mike was jealous of Brian's collaborators." No dice. Makes one wonder!
Logged
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7234



View Profile
« Reply #342 on: June 15, 2017, 06:01:13 AM »

I don't think people realized how deranged Mike was about that yet...
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5648



View Profile WWW
« Reply #343 on: June 15, 2017, 08:29:11 AM »

I've tried looking for a contemporary quote - from anybody - saying something along the lines of "Mike was jealous of Brian's collaborators." No dice. Makes one wonder!

Well, it might be less "jealous" and more "intensely annoyed to the point of possible seething anger", but Mike has gone on record as not liking the 2012 setup of Brian collaborating mostly with Joe Thomas, and we have comments from him relatively contemporary to that (2012/2013). In fact it has been mostly if not exclusively Mike that has raised this as an issue.

Also, I think trying to look for *contemporary* comments (where the comments would have to be more like "Mike *is* presently jealous of Brian's *current* collaborator") isn't the best way to determine how Mike felt and ultimately feels. During any given album/project/era, the participants are less likely to air grievances. It's years and decades later that the pent-up frustration and annoyance and scorn comes out. To that end, this exchange during Mike's epic 1992 Goldmine interview is quite interesting:

Q: Were you disappointed when Brian would collaborate with other lyricists like Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher and Roger Christian?

A: I was not happy about it but in the case of Roger Christian I wasn't as into the terminology of cars as he was. I wrote "I Get Around," which is, I guess, a cruising song, but it's more generic. It's not "competition clutch with four on the floor." I wasn't into hot rods to the extent that Roger Christian was so he provided some lyrical content to support Brian's musical abilities, so that was good. But when I did come up with a hook or some lyrics it's funny 'cause it was almost like it was not recognized. It was definitely not legally recognized.

Q: How about the case of Tony Asher writing Pet Sounds?

A: Now, that was a different story. When it got to that period of Brian's life that's when he started doing a lot of drugs. We were touring a lot and we'd come back in and do an album like Pet Sounds, for instance, and some of the words were so totally offensive to me that I wouldn't even sing 'em because I though it was too nauseating.



I'm well aware that Mike was extra full of piss and vinegar in this 1992 interview; super fired up and angry as he geared up for the songwriting lawsuit. But still, it's telling that the first words out of his mouth when asked about Brian's outside collaborators were "I was not happy about it." Yes, he goes on to offer explanations for some of his concerns, or some level of understanding of why other lyricists were needed. But underlying it all is that it seems on a fundamental level that he was "not happy about" Brian working with other lyricists.
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
Add Some
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1380



View Profile
« Reply #344 on: June 15, 2017, 09:23:30 AM »

I seem to recall 'Gettin' Hungry' being a Capitol label Brian Wilson/Mike Love release rather than a Beach Boys release.

Nope. Brother 1002.

It was definitely released via Capitol [the orange/yellow swirl label] in Canada.  Meanwhile not fucking with the formula put jerk dinosaur vendors outta business back in the day.  Jerk chicken took over.  Jerks who suggest that fucking with the formula is a bad idea usually end up stuck in yesterdays quagmire for ever...and a day...until they die from being encased in old mould.  [and hats].

[again mould is spelled mould in the English language.  what language do you speak?]  Mold?  My ass!!!

--------------------------------------

Oh and scrolling up...I see this whole Capitol/Brother question has been resolved as G.F. posted the PROOF that I was 100% right... [as I usually am about that 'love' guy as well.] ...and that Andrew was wrong.  [as he is generally...regarding that so-called 'love' guy.  Wink]  That's probably entirely unfair of me as Andrew can't respond but heh!!!  It's not often one can top Mr. Doe on details...although as far as that other guy is concerned...it's a cakewalk.  [and has been for at least the 14 years we've interacted.]  The careholder of the formula is more than welcome, as always, to go f*** himself... ... ...thrice.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 09:49:32 AM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Y O U  voted for Trump?   "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "Make America Immigrate Again!!!"  2-faced arsewipist!!!
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7234



View Profile
« Reply #345 on: June 15, 2017, 09:30:12 AM »

Jude, I am going to start calling Mike "old salty".... Cool Guy
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3912



View Profile
« Reply #346 on: June 15, 2017, 02:17:10 PM »

I've tried looking for a contemporary quote - from anybody - saying something along the lines of "Mike was jealous of Brian's collaborators." No dice. Makes one wonder!

Well, it might be less "jealous" and more "intensely annoyed to the point of possible seething anger", but Mike has gone on record as not liking the 2012 setup of Brian collaborating mostly with Joe Thomas, and we have comments from him relatively contemporary to that (2012/2013). In fact it has been mostly if not exclusively Mike that has raised this as an issue.

Also, I think trying to look for *contemporary* comments (where the comments would have to be more like "Mike *is* presently jealous of Brian's *current* collaborator") isn't the best way to determine how Mike felt and ultimately feels. During any given album/project/era, the participants are less likely to air grievances. It's years and decades later that the pent-up frustration and annoyance and scorn comes out. To that end, this exchange during Mike's epic 1992 Goldmine interview is quite interesting:

Q: Were you disappointed when Brian would collaborate with other lyricists like Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher and Roger Christian?

A: I was not happy about it but in the case of Roger Christian I wasn't as into the terminology of cars as he was. I wrote "I Get Around," which is, I guess, a cruising song, but it's more generic. It's not "competition clutch with four on the floor." I wasn't into hot rods to the extent that Roger Christian was so he provided some lyrical content to support Brian's musical abilities, so that was good. But when I did come up with a hook or some lyrics it's funny 'cause it was almost like it was not recognized. It was definitely not legally recognized.

Q: How about the case of Tony Asher writing Pet Sounds?

A: Now, that was a different story. When it got to that period of Brian's life that's when he started doing a lot of drugs. We were touring a lot and we'd come back in and do an album like Pet Sounds, for instance, and some of the words were so totally offensive to me that I wouldn't even sing 'em because I though it was too nauseating.



I'm well aware that Mike was extra full of piss and vinegar in this 1992 interview; super fired up and angry as he geared up for the songwriting lawsuit. But still, it's telling that the first words out of his mouth when asked about Brian's outside collaborators were "I was not happy about it." Yes, he goes on to offer explanations for some of his concerns, or some level of understanding of why other lyricists were needed. But underlying it all is that it seems on a fundamental level that he was "not happy about" Brian working with other lyricists.

My takeaway from this interview (again, with the awareness that it was during an intensely bad time in their relationship) is that Mike sort of "granted a pass" to Brian for Mike conceding it was acceptable to Mike for Brian to work with Roger Christian, simply because this one lyrical topic was something that Mike admittedly wasn't really capable of (writing about specific mechanical car lingo).  Real nice of him to actually say that Brian was, you know, actually justified to write with whoever the hell Brian wanted to write with.

To me as an outsider, it seems like Brian working with other people must have been something that Brian may have felt he had to "justify" to Mike, or else there'd be some real judgmental passive-aggressive stuff coming from Mike. I can only imagine how draining it must be to have to feel as though your bandmate is - at their whim - just deciding that it's ok in this one instance, but no ok in this other instance, for you to collaborate with other people.

F*ck. That. Sh*t.

It's a classic case of creative differences, but further compounded by jealousy; beyond the instance of giving Brian a "pass" to write with Roger about car lingo, Mike doesn't seem to want to concede that other lyricists might have been a better fit than himself for Brian for any other portion in their catalog. Even for the universally-lauded Pet Sounds, he currently talks about missed opportunities to shoehorn in his lyrical input.

I tell you what... we are VERY lucky that Mike doesn't have the legal right to pull a "Let it Be...Naked" type of deal, because if left up to his own devices, one might think Mike would take the Pet Sounds original backing tracks, and sing some new Mike lyrics to "improve" upon the original Asher lyrics, and try to get this released. If he didn't have a blockade of resistance, I would not doubt this could actually cross his mind.

All due respect to Mike's lyrical talents, for which he has indeed written some fine lyrics over the years. No doubt about it. I'll criticize the hell out of his behavior and how I think that impacted Brian and the band, but I will never try to take away praise for him where it's properly due.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 07:14:02 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7244



View Profile WWW
« Reply #347 on: June 15, 2017, 06:28:01 PM »

One of the key points in all this has been and will always be that Mike thinks he should be thought of as the "leader" of the band and all tangential issues around the band. So it's not only the formula, but trying to elevate one's self to a level where the so-called "formula" can be both defined and dictated in terms of following it or not fucking with it. Murry became the same way after the records really started to sell nationally, it was going overboard trying to project a facade of leadership rather than actually leading.

What cracks me up, and relates to this "formula" stuff, is a story Hal Blaine told about working with Lawrence Welk. Murry was apparently always on Brian's ass about how he should cut cleaner sounding records, like Welk. And in the meantime, Lawrence Welk himself according to Blaine who played sessions for him, was trying to get those newer sounds that Brian was recording and producing and selling by the truckload, mostly at Western.

It's too bad Brian had to deal with multiple "leaders" whose egos far outweighed their actual leadership qualities.
Logged

"I will never change with what I think happened in here and you will never convince me otherwise." - Dr. Beach Boy.
"There was no up front fees, period. swedishfrog  and I paid for the domain name. As of June 19, 2016 at 4:32pm edt, that is all I was charged for." - Dr. Beach Boy

www.domainsbyproxy.com

"Who is paying the bills?" - guitarfool2002
The LEGENDARY OSD
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1276

pugnacious arrogance is outta here for good.


View Profile
« Reply #348 on: June 15, 2017, 08:12:12 PM »


Talk about hitting the nail on the proverbial head, GF just did. +10
Logged

myKe luHv, the most hated, embarrassing clown the world of music has ever witnessed.
Kid Presentable
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 156


View Profile
« Reply #349 on: June 15, 2017, 11:55:18 PM »

One of the key points in all this has been and will always be that Mike thinks he should be thought of as the "leader" of the band and all tangential issues around the band. So it's not only the formula, but trying to elevate one's self to a level where the so-called "formula" can be both defined and dictated in terms of following it or not fucking with it. Murry became the same way after the records really started to sell nationally, it was going overboard trying to project a facade of leadership rather than actually leading.

What cracks me up, and relates to this "formula" stuff, is a story Hal Blaine told about working with Lawrence Welk. Murry was apparently always on Brian's ass about how he should cut cleaner sounding records, like Welk. And in the meantime, Lawrence Welk himself according to Blaine who played sessions for him, was trying to get those newer sounds that Brian was recording and producing and selling by the truckload, mostly at Western.

It's too bad Brian had to deal with multiple "leaders" whose egos far outweighed their actual leadership qualities.

As I look at it, a lot of this conflict is less about Mike "wanting to be the leader" and more about Brian absolutely not wanting to be the leader of "Beach Boys Proper" as years went on.  In that sense, if you were Mike, how would you behave?  You would probably think that you were a very good choice to fill whatever vacuum that Brian started leaving as the 60s went on.  (which is obviously very arguable)

Also, I always viewed "the formula" as being less about specific notions like writing surf/girl hits, and more as an abstract concept of how Mike viewed their band "organically" and how they always went about their business throughout the early and mid-60s. 

I wish they would have just given Brian the space to be a solo artist in the late 60s while throwing the BBs some songs for their albums each year, and let Mike and whoever horse around with the name and a touring band in the same manner that he does nowadays.  Then again I also wish they would have spun off a part-time power trio called Wilson. 
Logged
gfx
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!