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Author Topic: Don't F**k With the Formula  (Read 60956 times)
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« Reply #250 on: August 20, 2015, 08:37:47 PM »

I don't remember anybody ever suggesting the Boys didn't have issues, it was a band, they have told their very few issues with the work. It's getting inflated into conflict and putting down and bullying etc. that some of us think is a step too far. Actually some of their issues were with someone else's lyrics or being expected to do things or things in a way they found humiliating, not Brian's music. It is on tape that they did do even that which they have said they were bothered by or questioned.

We can take anybody's opinion about the Boys before we can accept the Boys' own words about themselves. Even Anderle said the most antagonistic situation was not antagonistic, they were very close, a great deal of love between all the fellas.

What would someone have to do in a band for you to say that they did inflict some emotional bullying?

Well, it certainly wouldn't be for having a lot of love and doing my job to the best of my ability while or in spite of offering a very few constructive suggestions or having a few questions or qualms  or embarrassments.

Ok, that's what you think *wouldn't* constitute it. My question is in your eyes, what *would*?
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« Reply #251 on: August 20, 2015, 08:39:01 PM »

I'll put the question to Cam: Do you think what David Anderle told Paul Williams about the Beach Boys resisting and arguing with Brian in the studio in 1966-67 over the music was accurate or not?

I think he wanted to be fair and he witnessed stuff and wanted to describe and interpret it to the best of his knowledge and experience or inexperience with the band.  I don't think there is a problem with what he says, I think it might be with how it has been taken sometimes.  For instance if he reports they said "we can't sing this", it seems to be assumed they meant we won't sing this when they probably meant it is so complex and experimental we're not capable of singing it. On the other hand, they tried to sing it either way, often for many takes.

What about the multiple times across a three-part interview where he mentioned "resistance" from the band to what Brian was doing in the studio, the mentions of Brian being worn down and frustrated by the continuous resistance from the band members, and other similar statements? It either happened or it didn't. Anderle was specific, so the question is do you think he was accurate in reporting what he saw? Should we post quotes or should someone post the entire article so we can all read it exactly and not have it parsed?
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« Reply #252 on: August 20, 2015, 08:39:31 PM »

I remember reading that article when it was brand spankin' new.  It was in Crawdaddy magazine I think.  That's probably mentioned earlier in the thread...which I haven't read because ...well you know why...These threads never seem to end well.

Anderle was honest and forthrite and accurate.  It was a real eye-opener.  And a real disappointment.  One I've had a HELL of a time getting over even after all of these years...and decades.

Wasn't the article also reprinted in someting called Outlaw Blues?  [or some similarly named book?]

Stephen Desper mentions it in another thread.  Brians take on maturing and moving forward musically versus Mike's outlook.  Says it all.  Have to agree with Brian on that one.  [like my agreeing means dick-all]
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« Reply #253 on: August 20, 2015, 08:46:28 PM »

I remember reading that article when it was brand spankin' new.  It was in Crawdaddy magazine I think.  That's probably mentioned earlier in the thread...which I haven't read because ...well you know why...These threads never seem to end well.

Anderle was honest and forthrite and accurate.  It was a real eye-opener.  And a real disappointment.  One I've had a HELL of a time getting over even after all of these years...and decades.

Wasn't the article also reprinted in someting called Outlaw Blues?  [or some similarly named book?]

Stephen Desper mentions it in another thread.  Brians take on maturing and moving forward musically versus Mike's outlook.  Says it all.  Have to agree with Brian on that one.  [like my agreeing means dick-all]

It was reprinted along with other Paul Williams writings in a book after the first 3 parts were in the magazine, yes. It's all there.

And my point is, bottom line, if there are those who doubt that the resistance Anderle saw from the band toward Brian and the effect it had on Brian and on the project in general actually happened, is anyone willing to step up and say outright that David Anderle got it wrong? Anyone?

I say again and agree to the post above - David Anderle was honest, and forthright, and in my opinion accurate in what he said. That is refreshing to read actual full-blown honesty coming from a genuinely good man like David Anderle especially in the year 2015. I wish there were more like him, and more interviews along the lines of the Paul Williams series from 67-68.
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« Reply #254 on: August 20, 2015, 08:50:13 PM »

It still puzzles me that Capitol didn't want Pet Sounds, yet Capitol/EMI seem to have fully supported Rubber Soul, Revolver, etc. We never hear stories of the execs at EMI telling George Martin "don't f--- with the formula!"
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« Reply #255 on: August 20, 2015, 09:03:07 PM »

I'll put the question to Cam: Do you think what David Anderle told Paul Williams about the Beach Boys resisting and arguing with Brian in the studio in 1966-67 over the music was accurate or not?

I think he wanted to be fair and he witnessed stuff and wanted to describe and interpret it to the best of his knowledge and experience or inexperience with the band.  I don't think there is a problem with what he says, I think it might be with how it has been taken sometimes.  For instance if he reports they said "we can't sing this", it seems to be assumed they meant we won't sing this when they probably meant it is so complex and experimental we're not capable of singing it. On the other hand, they tried to sing it either way, often for many takes.

What about the multiple times across a three-part interview where he mentioned "resistance" from the band to what Brian was doing in the studio, the mentions of Brian being worn down and frustrated by the continuous resistance from the band members, and other similar statements? It either happened or it didn't. Anderle was specific, so the question is do you think he was accurate in reporting what he saw? Should we post quotes or should someone post the entire article so we can all read it exactly and not have it parsed?

There was the "resistance" of Anderle and Parks.

There was the "resistance" of the Beach Boys in the studio where Brian told them what he wanted and they tried for "endless takes" before Brian would junk it. And the specific example of "resistance" where Brian wanted the lead of H&V but he had sort of promised it to Mike and Mike sang it beautifully for almost a week before Brian took the lead anyway.
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« Reply #256 on: August 20, 2015, 09:07:52 PM »

I'll put the question to Cam: Do you think what David Anderle told Paul Williams about the Beach Boys resisting and arguing with Brian in the studio in 1966-67 over the music was accurate or not?

I think he wanted to be fair and he witnessed stuff and wanted to describe and interpret it to the best of his knowledge and experience or inexperience with the band.  I don't think there is a problem with what he says, I think it might be with how it has been taken sometimes.  For instance if he reports they said "we can't sing this", it seems to be assumed they meant we won't sing this when they probably meant it is so complex and experimental we're not capable of singing it. On the other hand, they tried to sing it either way, often for many takes.

What about the multiple times across a three-part interview where he mentioned "resistance" from the band to what Brian was doing in the studio, the mentions of Brian being worn down and frustrated by the continuous resistance from the band members, and other similar statements? It either happened or it didn't. Anderle was specific, so the question is do you think he was accurate in reporting what he saw? Should we post quotes or should someone post the entire article so we can all read it exactly and not have it parsed?

There was the "resistance" of Anderle and Parks.

There was the "resistance" of the Beach Boys in the studio where Brian told them what he wanted and they tried for "endless takes" before Brian would junk it. And the specific example of "resistance" where Brian wanted the lead of H&V but he had sort of promised it to Mike and Mike sang it beautifully for almost a week before Brian took the lead anyway.

That's cherrypicking, Cam. You know that. You know the interview as well as I do.
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« Reply #257 on: August 20, 2015, 09:19:59 PM »

David Anderle, one example out of many as told to Williams:

 "But Brian would come in, and he would want to do different things, and they would really balk at that; and again, I have to keep thinking that this is the problem with what's going on right now. Sooner or later it has to tire you out, and Brian would complain about it. It would be much easier for Brian to go in and lay all those voices out himself, and do all those things; there's a lot of things on Pet Sounds that uh, incredible vocal things that are all Brian's voices, because he can sing all their parts. But he would go through a tremendous paranoia before he would get into the studio, knowing he was going to have to face an argument. He would come into the studio uptight, he would give a part to one of the fellas or to a group of the fellas, say "This is what I would like to have done," and there would be resistance. And it wouldn't be happening and there would be endless takes and then he would just junk it. And then maybe after they left to tour he would come back in and do it himself. All their parts. But it was very taxing, and it was extremely painful to watch. Because it was, uh, a great wall had been put down in front of creativity. And now, maybe, he just doesn't want to fight anymore. It used to be a big fight thing in that studio, and he just may be damn well tired of fighting and having to give the parts to the guys and hearing their excuses why they don't want to do it this way or why they want to do it that way...that could very easily be it."


That's direct, cut-through-the-bullshit honesty in my opinion. And that's just one excerpt out of thousands of words in the interviews.

Will anyone step up and dispute or disprove David Anderle's description of events as he saw them unfold?
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« Reply #258 on: August 20, 2015, 09:29:14 PM »


That's cherrypicking, Cam. You know that. You know the interview as well as I do.

Those are the examples of "resistance".
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« Reply #259 on: August 20, 2015, 11:05:25 PM »

David Anderle was one of Brian's 'guys', just like VDP was. Any of his comments has the potential to be skewered towards favouring Brian. Compare his thoughts to the hours and hours we have of the guys trying all the complex vocal arrangements Brian thrown at them.
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« Reply #260 on: August 20, 2015, 11:30:39 PM »

David Anderle was one of Brian's 'guys', just like VDP was. Any of his comments has the potential to be skewered towards favouring Brian. Compare his thoughts to the hours and hours we have of the guys trying all the complex vocal arrangements Brian thrown at them.

Serious questions:

1.  Why didn't you equally question Mike's own words as quoted by others?  Isn't be one of his own guys and aren't his words therefore suspect?
2. Given his words are suspect by your own definition, whose words are you taking in place David, Brian, Al, VDP, Marilyn, and a host of others?
3.  What do hours and hours of vocal sessions prove?  It was the gravy train.  I work my ass off in sales/customer service for a huge corporation.  I think huge corporations are ruining the world.  I do it with a smile and to the best of my ability each day.  Are you saying this proves I'm supportive of my company and what they do and stand for?  It means I need the money, nothing more.  The vocal sessions prove he wanted money, nothing more.  There may have been more, but the vocal sessions are useless in supporting your point.
4.  Given how gracious Brian has been toward Murry and Landy and what we know they did to him, we know that publicly Brian way undersells how badly people have treated him.  Given what he has said about Mike, do you think what he feels about Mike and his support are better or worse than what he has said publicly?  Given that you have no rational way to avoid acknowledging it is far worse, why do you choose to believe Mike over Brian, especially given a host of other witnesses who agree with what Brian has said?

EoL
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« Reply #261 on: August 20, 2015, 11:57:20 PM »

1- Mike's views on Smile has been set in stone for so long now I have little reason to believe that he is lying. We know he had a problem with some of the lyrics, we know it got heated. Has he ever denied otherwise?
2- Al is just parroting what Mike has openly said. VDP still has a bug in his butt about this whole thing all these years later and he is now implying in his tweets that Brian is the one who was most at fault. Marilyn was the guy's wife, she's going to be far more exposed to Brian's point of view than Mike's.
3- Talk about 'dammed if you do, dammed if you dont'. It's proof that Mike and the rest did just about  everything Brian asked, sometimes to mere fragments of backing tracks, after coming off the back of an album that underperformed somewhat, to an untested lyrical genre, by a guy who seemed to have Brian's ear far more then the actual band did - somewhere along the line they must have performed a leap of faith.
4- Brian is the master of passive agressiveness. All he has to say is "Mike didn't like it" and his fanboys do the rest.
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« Reply #262 on: August 21, 2015, 01:54:28 AM »

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« Reply #263 on: August 21, 2015, 02:40:28 AM »

Can't we get Daro to chip in? Last time he was here, VDP was endorsing his views.
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« Reply #264 on: August 21, 2015, 04:25:07 AM »



A five wooter if I ever saw one. w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t!

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« Reply #265 on: August 21, 2015, 05:02:01 AM »



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« Reply #266 on: August 21, 2015, 09:21:19 AM »


That's cherrypicking, Cam. You know that. You know the interview as well as I do.

Those are the examples of "resistance".

So was this:

David Anderle, one example out of many as told to Williams:

 "But Brian would come in, and he would want to do different things, and they would really balk at that; and again, I have to keep thinking that this is the problem with what's going on right now. Sooner or later it has to tire you out, and Brian would complain about it. It would be much easier for Brian to go in and lay all those voices out himself, and do all those things; there's a lot of things on Pet Sounds that uh, incredible vocal things that are all Brian's voices, because he can sing all their parts. But he would go through a tremendous paranoia before he would get into the studio, knowing he was going to have to face an argument. He would come into the studio uptight, he would give a part to one of the fellas or to a group of the fellas, say "This is what I would like to have done," and there would be resistance. And it wouldn't be happening and there would be endless takes and then he would just junk it. And then maybe after they left to tour he would come back in and do it himself. All their parts. But it was very taxing, and it was extremely painful to watch. Because it was, uh, a great wall had been put down in front of creativity. And now, maybe, he just doesn't want to fight anymore. It used to be a big fight thing in that studio, and he just may be damn well tired of fighting and having to give the parts to the guys and hearing their excuses why they don't want to do it this way or why they want to do it that way...that could very easily be it."


That's direct, cut-through-the-bullshit honesty in my opinion. And that's just one excerpt out of thousands of words in the interviews.

Will anyone step up and dispute or disprove David Anderle's description of events as he saw them unfold?
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« Reply #267 on: August 21, 2015, 10:27:21 AM »


That's cherrypicking, Cam. You know that. You know the interview as well as I do.

Those are the examples of "resistance".

So was this:

David Anderle, one example out of many as told to Williams:

 "But Brian would come in, and he would want to do different things, and they would really balk at that; and again, I have to keep thinking that this is the problem with what's going on right now. Sooner or later it has to tire you out, and Brian would complain about it. It would be much easier for Brian to go in and lay all those voices out himself, and do all those things; there's a lot of things on Pet Sounds that uh, incredible vocal things that are all Brian's voices, because he can sing all their parts. But he would go through a tremendous paranoia before he would get into the studio, knowing he was going to have to face an argument. He would come into the studio uptight, he would give a part to one of the fellas or to a group of the fellas, say "This is what I would like to have done," and there would be resistance. And it wouldn't be happening and there would be endless takes and then he would just junk it. And then maybe after they left to tour he would come back in and do it himself. All their parts. But it was very taxing, and it was extremely painful to watch. Because it was, uh, a great wall had been put down in front of creativity. And now, maybe, he just doesn't want to fight anymore. It used to be a big fight thing in that studio, and he just may be damn well tired of fighting and having to give the parts to the guys and hearing their excuses why they don't want to do it this way or why they want to do it that way...that could very easily be it."


That's direct, cut-through-the-bullshit honesty in my opinion. And that's just one excerpt out of thousands of words in the interviews.

Will anyone step up and dispute or disprove David Anderle's description of events as he saw them unfold?

Forgot this: "DAVID: Uh, no, there's no, you couldn't really say a, ringleader. I think probably the most antagonistic situation was between Brian and Mike Love, although it is not an antagonistic kind of .... They're very close, there's a great deal of love between all the fellas. I don't think any of the other boys, except perhaps for Carl, is anywhere near where Brian is musically, although Dennis showed some great moments, he was doing some of his own things and they were beautiful .... "
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« Reply #268 on: August 21, 2015, 10:30:51 AM »

Also:

"DAVID: Right. What had happened was, Brian had gone in and had done a fantastic amount of recording while the guys were in Europe, and then there was a separation of time, and then it got to be, well, as soon as they get back we'll finish. And they got back. And they had their normal rest time. And then he brought them into the studio, and they were hearing things they never heard before. Not only were they hearing things they'd never heard from Brian, but also you've got to remember that none of this Beatles stuff was happening then. There was no way to relate to what Brian was putting down. That's when he started meeting resistance from the Beach Boys. "Brian, what are you ... what is this? What are you doing? This is not within our framework, you're going too far now, Brian, this is too experimental. I can't sing this part." In one specific song Brian wanted to sing the lead, but it was almost promised to Mike. And Mike couldn't cut it the way Brian wanted it to be cut, although Mike was cutting it beautifully. But it still wasn't right, and Brian wanted to do it ... they went through an incredible amount of time, almost a whole week of wasted studio time, before Brian finally did it. Brian didn't know how to deal with the boys. We were around for the first time; the Beach Boys came back from England and here was this bunch of people, who all of a sudden were saying a lot of things — Michael Vossi, and myself, and Paul Robbins somewhat, Van Dyke, very strongly, Jules, a lot of people they hadn't seen before — and that must have been very scary for them, 'cause here was a whole bunch of people who were doing heavy things for their career, their future. And here's Brian, with entirely new sounds. I think had they relaxed into Smile, Smile would have happened. 'Cause you've got to remember, to this day Smile is still an album of tracks that are filed away somewhere, not many vocals down, but there's still a whole album — there's enough there for three albums of incredible tracks."
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« Reply #269 on: August 21, 2015, 10:45:02 AM »

Despite all the talk about resistance and the Boys, and Anderle, and studio booking, and engineers, I take it this was the "critical" piece de resistance?

DAVID: .....Van was there like all the time. And Van and Brian were running together, very hot and heavy. And Van was blowing Brian's mind, and Brian was blowing whole situation and I said, at that time, that's never to work. Those two are never gonna be able to work together.
And they never have, they never really did. They had a great moment of creativity. I think Van Dyke is one of the few, very few people that Brian truly looked at on an equal level, or maybe that's a little presumptuous to say. Van Dyke blew Brian's mind and I hadn't seen anyone else do that. And Van used to walk away from his evenings with Brian, very awe-struck at what Brian was doing musically. I think to this day Van Dyke is the first one to admit — again, not influence, but the effect that Brian had, or has, on Van Dyke. Very strong. Their parting was kind of tragic, in the fact that there were two people who absolutely did not want to separate but they both knew that they had to separate, that they could not work together. 'Cause they were too strong, you know, in their own areas.
PAUL: When, February?
DAVID: Right around February, yeah. Van was getting — his lyric was too sophisticated, and in some areas Brian's music was not sophisticated enough, and so they started clashing on that.
PAUL: They missed each other.
DAVID: Yeah. They were together to a certain point, and then zingo! they bypassed each other, and never the twain shall meet with those two."

DAVID: ....Brian was starting meet a fantastic amount of resistance on all fronts. Like, very slowly everything started to collapse about him. The scene with Van Dyke. Now, that a critical point. You've gotta remember that originally Van Dyke was gonna do all the lyrics for Smile. Then there was a hassle between Van and Brian and Van wasn't around. So that meant that Brian was now going to have to finish some of the lyrics himself. Well, how was he gonna put his lyrics in with the lyrics already started by Van Dyke? So he stopped recording for a while. Got completely away from music, saying it's time to get into films. And we all knew what was happening.





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« Reply #270 on: August 21, 2015, 12:16:30 PM »

I don't remember anybody ever suggesting the Boys didn't have issues, it was a band, they have told their very few issues with the work. It's getting inflated into conflict and putting down and bullying etc. that some of us think is a step too far. Actually some of their issues were with someone else's lyrics or being expected to do things or things in a way they found humiliating, not Brian's music. It is on tape that they did do even that which they have said they were bothered by or questioned.

We can take anybody's opinion about the Boys before we can accept the Boys' own words about themselves. Even Anderle said the most antagonistic situation was not antagonistic, they were very close, a great deal of love between all the fellas.

What would someone have to do in a band for you to say that they did inflict some emotional bullying?

Well, it certainly wouldn't be for having a lot of love and doing my job to the best of my ability while or in spite of offering a very few constructive suggestions or having a few questions or qualms  or embarrassments.

Ok, that's what you think *wouldn't* constitute it. My question is in your eyes, what *would*?

Cam - any response to this question?
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« Reply #271 on: August 21, 2015, 03:51:55 PM »

Also:

"DAVID: Right. What had happened was, Brian had gone in and had done a fantastic amount of recording while the guys were in Europe, and then there was a separation of time, and then it got to be, well, as soon as they get back we'll finish. And they got back. And they had their normal rest time. And then he brought them into the studio, and they were hearing things they never heard before. Not only were they hearing things they'd never heard from Brian, but also you've got to remember that none of this Beatles stuff was happening then. There was no way to relate to what Brian was putting down. That's when he started meeting resistance from the Beach Boys. "Brian, what are you ... what is this? What are you doing? This is not within our framework, you're going too far now, Brian, this is too experimental. I can't sing this part." In one specific song Brian wanted to sing the lead, but it was almost promised to Mike. And Mike couldn't cut it the way Brian wanted it to be cut, although Mike was cutting it beautifully. But it still wasn't right, and Brian wanted to do it ... they went through an incredible amount of time, almost a whole week of wasted studio time, before Brian finally did it. Brian didn't know how to deal with the boys. We were around for the first time; the Beach Boys came back from England and here was this bunch of people, who all of a sudden were saying a lot of things — Michael Vossi, and myself, and Paul Robbins somewhat, Van Dyke, very strongly, Jules, a lot of people they hadn't seen before — and that must have been very scary for them, 'cause here was a whole bunch of people who were doing heavy things for their career, their future. And here's Brian, with entirely new sounds. I think had they relaxed into Smile, Smile would have happened. 'Cause you've got to remember, to this day Smile is still an album of tracks that are filed away somewhere, not many vocals down, but there's still a whole album — there's enough there for three albums of incredible tracks."

The Boys were "resisting" YAMS?
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« Reply #272 on: August 22, 2015, 06:05:52 PM »

The Boys resisted SMiLE, and pressured Brian to do something more commercial, something formula....so they did Smiley Smile. Yep, that's commercial, that's formula.
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #273 on: August 24, 2015, 08:30:44 AM »

Each subsequent quote by Cam proves that the Beach Boys did put up resistance to Brian and his musical direction, and that Mike Love was the central figure ("the most antagonistic") although not the "ringleader."  The fact that Brian and Van Dyke also had some problems has nothing to do with the resistance from the Beach Boys.  They either resisted or not, and Anderle clearly states they did.  So you have aided guitarfool by confirming what he has said and what is in Anderle's account.

But of course as obvious as this is to any one reading the quotes and the thread, Cam will continue to "cherrypick" what parts of what quotes are important and refuse to acknowledge anything other than his biased, preconceived notions where no one was resisting Brian but Brian himself, and certainly not the Lovester.
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« Reply #274 on: August 24, 2015, 09:21:05 AM »

Despite all the talk about resistance and the Boys, and Anderle, and studio booking, and engineers, I take it this was the "critical" piece de resistance?

DAVID: .....Van was there like all the time. And Van and Brian were running together, very hot and heavy. And Van was blowing Brian's mind, and Brian was blowing whole situation and I said, at that time, that's never to work. Those two are never gonna be able to work together.
And they never have, they never really did. They had a great moment of creativity. I think Van Dyke is one of the few, very few people that Brian truly looked at on an equal level, or maybe that's a little presumptuous to say. Van Dyke blew Brian's mind and I hadn't seen anyone else do that. And Van used to walk away from his evenings with Brian, very awe-struck at what Brian was doing musically. I think to this day Van Dyke is the first one to admit — again, not influence, but the effect that Brian had, or has, on Van Dyke. Very strong. Their parting was kind of tragic, in the fact that there were two people who absolutely did not want to separate but they both knew that they had to separate, that they could not work together. 'Cause they were too strong, you know, in their own areas.
PAUL: When, February?
DAVID: Right around February, yeah. Van was getting — his lyric was too sophisticated, and in some areas Brian's music was not sophisticated enough, and so they started clashing on that.
PAUL: They missed each other.
DAVID: Yeah. They were together to a certain point, and then zingo! they bypassed each other, and never the twain shall meet with those two."

DAVID: ....Brian was starting meet a fantastic amount of resistance on all fronts. Like, very slowly everything started to collapse about him. The scene with Van Dyke. Now, that a critical point. You've gotta remember that originally Van Dyke was gonna do all the lyrics for Smile. Then there was a hassle between Van and Brian and Van wasn't around. So that meant that Brian was now going to have to finish some of the lyrics himself. Well, how was he gonna put his lyrics in with the lyrics already started by Van Dyke? So he stopped recording for a while. Got completely away from music, saying it's time to get into films. And we all knew what was happening.
There seem to be clashing all over the place.  There are a lot of problems with this picture.  

First, this clash between "simplicity" (Brian) and "sophistication" (Van) - and Brian's ability to distill and refine/define life to the simplicity and essence, is Brian's greatest gift.  GOK, Til I Die, In My Room, Surfer Girl.

Now, the most recent song, I paid little attention to, ever, is Farmer's daughter. A traveling farm hand, or almost "vagrant" type, filled with gratitude for a couple of days work to "keep him going, " cleaning up, resting up, and "on my way."

Of course there were clashes. How could there not be? But, how could anyone coming into the organization, really as a "guest" not look at the past, very successful work and not "get" where the melodies were coming to and not contort/conform the lyric structure to Brian's core glorious simplicity.  And disrespect the family business dynamic that created the band?

Farmer's Daughter is a glorious little song, and a prefiguration of coming attractions and BB potential.  Was it possible to create a matrix to tell the story of Americana? Of course. Was it possible to do it in an understandable lyric? Yes, of course it was.  And this demand for Brian to become "more sophisticated" and lose this essence of simplicity shows that on many levels, it might have been an "incompatible relationship."

A song such as Farmer's Daughter is the little tale of a man, maybe finding love, "working his way across" a certain territory.  It was a common American thread upon much greatness was built.  And, "majestic," in its own right.  Likely, in any country, in an agrarian setting.  And, it is dreamy (oneiric) and yet concrete in comprehension. Wouldn't this song have fit beautifully in the Smile tale?  I think so.  Or, was it considered "too primitive" for some? The vagrant in the song is the Smile Story of coming across America.   Wink

Second, this thing that feels like a privacy violation.  And the duality of the family/business dynamic.  What keeps you close, often almost creates a situation where you almost come to blows. Because you are family.  

Other bands could "walk away" from fellow members after "work." It tends to escalate any problems of philosophical disagreement.  This whole "social media" application to the past, feels invasive, and inappropriate.  I don't need to know who disagreed with whom.  The point is that they found a way to get a product on the table.  And the philosophical disagreements within the business context belong behind closed doors.  

It is telling "tales out of school" or the game of "kiss and tell."  Wink
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