What did Mike + the other Boys think of Jack Rieley's lyrics?

[Andrew G. Doe]

It came out Jack had lied about his previous accomplishments in getting the job of manager. 

And some of the Beach Boys lied about being surfers.  What's a few lies among friends?

He claimed he worked for NBC's Puerto Rican bureau. There isn't one.

He claimed he won a Peabody Prize. He didn't.

When Ricky was having immigration hassles, Rieley produced a letter of welcome from a well-known politician. A stack of notepaper with said politician's letterhead was later found in his desk drawer.

That's not "a few lies amongst friends", that's flat out fraudulent.

[CenturyDeprived]

Also didn't Gaines or someone report Jack's sexuality became an issue for some of the Beach Boys?

I recall hearing something vague about this too.

I am almost afraid to ask for more details about this, because I doubt the answer will be pleasing to hear, but does anyone have more info on this?

[Gerry]

I'm not trying to rationalize Rieley's behavior ,I'm saying that it was the nature of the business that he was attempting to get into. Essentially what he did was lie on his resume. And as it so often does, it came back to bite him in the ass. Was he wrong? Yes, but I think the positives outweighed the negatives.

[CenturyDeprived]

I'm not trying to rationalize Rieley's behavior ,I'm saying that it was the nature of the business that he was attempting to get into. Essentially what he did was lie on his resume. And as it so often does, it came back to bite him in the ass. Was he wrong? Yes, but I think the positives outweighed the negatives.

Agreed. I think the firing reasons had to run deeper than that.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Also didn't Gaines or someone report Jack's sexuality became an issue for some of the Beach Boys?

I recall hearing something vague about this too.

I am almost afraid to ask for more details about this, because I doubt the answer will be pleasing to hear, but does anyone have more info on this?

Seconded

[Cam Mott]

It came out Jack had lied about his previous accomplishments in getting the job of manager. 

And some of the Beach Boys lied about being surfers.  What's a few lies among friends?

Which ones?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Also didn't Gaines or someone report Jack's sexuality became an issue for some of the Beach Boys?

I recall hearing something vague about this too.

I am almost afraid to ask for more details about this, because I doubt the answer will be pleasing to hear, but does anyone have more info on this?

Jack was bisexual in the 70s. For many years before his passing his partner was Jaye Meuller. Thought the former was common knowledge. No biggie these days, back then less tolerated. Which members weren't detailed.

[Cam Mott]

"He (Jack Rielly) was a great manipulator. He could sell ice boxes to Eskimos. He was one of those guys who worked his way into your brain and into your life and into your recording sessions and onto your songs."  Al Jardine 2009

[Don Malcolm]

Do not get me wrong here--there is no question that Jack Reiley told many whoppers--but have any of the items from Andrew's post, which are IIRC all taken from Gaines's book--ever been confirmed from any of the sources independently? I've seen these charges repeated many times, but I've never seen anyone indicate that their own conversations with the people who must have made those comments in interviews with Gaines "double down" on what appeared in his pages.

Those of you who've forgotten what the stance on homosexuality was like in late 60s-early 70s America might find it interesting to see the new film BEST OF ENEMIES, which frames many American social/political issues of that time around the riotous TV debates between Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley Jr. during the 1968 Presidential conventions...Buckley losing his Cheshire cat "cool" on live TV and uttering a sexual epithet is a revealing toe-dip into the pool of what things were like then. It wasn't likely that very many of the BB's were going to be particularly enlightened about this issue, given their upbringing in 50s America--while so much was changing, there were still frontiers that would take a good bit longer to cross.

Of course, an interesting aspect of this that reflects back on Rieley's lyrics is the collaboration with Carl on "Feel Flows," which Jack has explicated as being about the sensation of orgasm...interesting point of connection for a straight, married Beach Boy to have with his closeted gay manager-advisor-writing partner. Such a discussion was probably possible in 1971 due to the momentum of the sexual revolution and a desire for more open discourse on such subjects, but one wonders if it would have been possible if Jack had been out of the closet at the time. I tend to think that such subject matter became ironically more taboo as more and more people agreed to accept alternative lifestyles, but talk less and less about sexuality in a cultural context.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

It came out Jack had lied about his previous accomplishments in getting the job of manager. 

And some of the Beach Boys lied about being surfers.  What's a few lies among friends?

He claimed he worked for NBC's Puerto Rican bureau. There isn't one.

He claimed he won a Peabody Prize. He didn't.

When Ricky was having immigration hassles, Rieley produced a letter of welcome from a well-known politician. A stack of notepaper with said politician's letterhead was later found in his desk drawer.

That's not "a few lies amongst friends", that's flat out fraudulent.

  But not nearly as fraudulent as myKe luHv billing his tribute act as The Beach Boys every time he drags his band of unknowns on stage. And yes we all know myKe forks out money for doing so and has the licence and so on and so on. As for Jack, real fans are damn happy he was once associated with the group.

[Andrew G. Doe]

As ever in your pathetically puerile posts, you have no idea what you're talking about. I happen to have a very soft spot for the Rieley era, and his lyrics, and his sexuality has never bothered me, but liking the music he was helping create doesn't cause me to excuse his dishonesty nor his manipulative management style. As for you pronouncing who is, and is not, a "real fan", well... that's like a politician lecturing someone on honesty and morality. Real fans have more than one threadbare song in their repertoire. Other have also noted your near-complete absence from any thread that demands both a basic knowledge of this band and their music, and the ability to say something more than a bajillion variations on a theme of "I hate Mike Love". You're the fraud. You pretend to be a fan, but you're just a simple troll.

[SMiLE Brian]

Who saw them in 1967 and bought the records as they were released. OSD is a true fan in every sense of the word. Both OSD and I have no time for Mike Love fanboys bullying people because they know the bar band is an inferior product.

[Mike's Beard]

Congrats on turning yet another thread into a 'let's bash Mike' thread. And it just so happens that I think the best years of the group fell under Jack's watch.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I understand that sexual/gender id issues weren't aus talked about back then. I can see LGBT people being a mysterious "other" that could be off-putting to people *who have never met one before.* But it seems shitty to oust someone you know is a good guy (ok, the lies aside) who's helped you produce some great music just because they prefer men. It's like being married and sexist or best friends with a black man and racist. Just really hurtful and closed-minded behavior no matter what decade it is

[Mike's Beard]

Well were the guys aware Jack was gay when they first hired him? Because if they were then I can't see why that would suddenly become a problem 3 years later and a reason to fire him. The reason I always heard he left was because of him staying in Holland. He may also not have been the best man for the job in capitalising on the new post Endless Summer phase.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

As ever in your pathetically puerile posts, you have no idea what you're talking about. I happen to have a very soft spot for the Rieley era, and his lyrics, and his sexuality has never bothered me, but liking the music he was helping create doesn't cause me to excuse his dishonesty nor his manipulative management style. As for you pronouncing who is, and is not, a "real fan", well... that's like a politician lecturing someone on honesty and morality. Real fans have more than one threadbare song in their repertoire. Other have also noted your near-complete absence from any thread that demands both a basic knowledge of this band and their music, and the ability to say something more than a bajillion variations on a theme of "I hate Mike Love". You're the fraud. You pretend to be a fan, but you're just a simple troll.

As always, simply delighted beyond belief to see you make a complete fool of yourself in the face of disagreement. That last line takes the cake, proving once again just how ignorant you are.

[Don Malcolm]

Well were the guys aware Jack was gay when they first hired him? Because if they were then I can't see why that would suddenly become a problem 3 years later and a reason to fire him. The reason I always heard he left was because of him staying in Holland. He may also not have been the best man for the job in capitalising on the new post Endless Summer phase.

That is indeed a key question, and there are of course a number of surviving Beach Boys who might be persuaded to talk about that in 2015 under the right circumstances. My guess is that it was not known initially, and that its discovery (likely during the time in Holland)  contributed to the unanimity of the BBs desire to sever ties with Jack after that adventure...where the Netherlands' less straitened atmosphere with respect to homosexuality may well have contributed to the discovery of Jack's preferences. Under such circumstances one can envision a collision course of reasons leading to the break with him. From Jack's remarks it seems that he was tiring of the internecine strife he was encountering with the band; it's also likely that the relationship(s) he'd developed while in Holland might have motivated him to remain. Put all of those things together and you've very likely got a powerful impulse for "you go your way and we'll go ours."

Clearly Carl would have been the most interesting person to ask about this, as all accounts of the Holland story indicate that he is the one who fired Jack.

[c-man]

I'm not sure exactly when Jack was fired but he was still managing them in the spring of 1973.  He accompanied them on their March-May 1973 tour in the States (he was interviewed at a few college shows and I have them).

He also introduced them at their August '73 Hartford, CT show.

[clack]

Some real misunderstandings of the early 70's era going on here.

This was the era of glam rock, when stars like David Bowie and Lou Reed proclaimed their homosexuality in interviews, when Bowie mimed performing fellatio on his guitarist as a routine part of his stage act,when even straight rockers implied that they were gay and wore mascara and dresses. And yes when even Mike Love, in imitation of Jagger, queened his way across the stage. Homosexuality was hip.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Some real misunderstandings of the early 70's era going on here.

This was the era of glam rock, when stars like David Bowie and Lou Reed proclaimed their homosexuality in interviews, when Bowie mimed performing fellatio on his guitarist as a routine part of his stage act,when even straight rockers implied that they were gay and wore mascara and dresses. And yes when even Mike Love, in imitation of Jagger, queened his way across the stage. Homosexuality was hip.

Excellent points made. Reed and Bowie could easily pull it off, but myKe luHv trying to emulate Jagger only succeeded in making himself look like an obnoxious wannabe and also tarnished the group's image.

[Ian]

Right c-man I forgot that appearance. As I thought his firing was in fall 1973 as guercio started to become involved and became the new advisor. As far as the stuff in Gaines goes, having interviewed many beach boys insiders for my book, I've come to believe that everything in that book is basically true and that gaines actually showed restraint! Reliable sources have told me even crazier stories but I can't share them!

[adamghost]

Of course, an interesting aspect of this that reflects back on Rieley's lyrics is the collaboration with Carl on "Feel Flows," which Jack has explicated as being about the sensation of orgasm...interesting point of connection for a straight, married Beach Boy to have with his closeted gay manager-advisor-writing partner.

Oh man..."white hot glistening shadowy flow..."  How did I never catch on to this before?  Man...

[Cam Mott]

Right c-man I forgot that appearance. As I thought his firing was in fall 1973 as guercio started to become involved and became the new advisor. As far as the stuff in Gaines goes, having interviewed many beach boys insiders for my book, I've come to believe that everything in that book is basically true and that gaines actually showed restraint! Reliable sources have told me even crazier stories but I can't share them!

I've told this before but FWIW, I managed to get a hold of Nick Grillo a decade or more ago. He was very nice and called me back but at the time he was not interested in giving an interview concerning the BBs.  However he did refer me to Gaines book and said he felt everything attributed to him was accurate. 

[guitarfool2002]

As far as the stuff in Gaines goes, having interviewed many beach boys insiders for my book, I've come to believe that everything in that book is basically true and that gaines actually showed restraint! Reliable sources have told me even crazier stories but I can't share them!

So Mike really did tell Brian "don't f*** with the formula"? That's in the book. There were posters here not long ago saying that never happened.

[Bill Ed]

I have long believed that Jack Rieley's collaborations with band members constituted a conflict of interest. With the band members fighting to get their songs on the group's albums, wouldn't  a good manager have kept himself in as objective a position as possible? It's telling to me that "A Day in the Life of a Tree" made it onto Surf's Up and "Wouldn't It be Nice (To Live Again)" didn't.