Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Songwriters - Brian at #12

[SBonilla]

No Antonia Carlos Jobim. These lists are always so meaningless.

Antonio

[Smilin Ed H]

No Antonia Carlos Jobim. These lists are always so meaningless.

Antonio

His sister was good too.

[Bicyclerider]

I think anyone who thinks Jagger/Richards or Bob Marley are better songwriters than Brian Wilson are smoking crack.  I would also question Paul Simon but that's at least arguable.

[Cam Mott]

I don't need a poll to tell me how great I think Brian or anyone else is.

[beatnickle]

No Antonia Carlos Jobim. These lists are always so meaningless.

Antonio

Wow.... the spelling police are on the job ( howe fuuking pathetick )

[Debbie KL]

No Antonia Carlos Jobim. These lists are always so meaningless.

Agreed, and yet we all keep clicking on them, so they persist.  There's something irresistible about seeing who's on them and who isn't.

[beatnickle]

No Antonia Carlos Jobim. These lists are always so meaningless.

Agreed, and yet we all keep clicking on them, so they persist.  There's something irresistible about seeing who's on them and who isn't.

Yep.

[Mike's Beard]

And the criminal inclusion would be Morrissey?

He should be in the top 100

He is (w/Marr, himself a fine, fine musician) and that inclusion alone invalidates the entire exercise. I detest the odious, opinionated, caterwauling twat with a passion usually reserved for a certain 1965 single. He offends me by the simple action of breathing. Oh that he would desist.

To quote The Cure's Robert Smith - "The fact that Morrissey is a vegetarian is reason enough to make me eat meat".

[rn57]

And the criminal inclusion would be Morrissey?

He should be in the top 100

He is (w/Marr, himself a fine, fine musician) and that inclusion alone invalidates the entire exercise. I detest the odious, opinionated, caterwauling twat with a passion usually reserved for a certain 1965 single. He offends me by the simple action of breathing. Oh that he would desist.

To quote The Cure's Robert Smith - "The fact that Morrissey is a vegetarian is reason enough to make me eat meat".

I remember when Morrissey came to LA the very first time. His publicist at Warner Bros/Sire, Rick Gershon, was a friend of mine, and when I called him he mentioned he was taking the great man to lunch.

 "What restaurant do you think would be suitable for Morrissey?" Rick asked.

"Hmmm....how about Fat Jack's?" I answered.

"What the hell do you mean? This is the man who wrote 'Meat Is Murder'!" (Fat Jack's in the San Fernando Valley, now gone, was at the time one of the pre-eminent Angeleno burger joints, its slogan being Best Meat In Town.)

"No problem. I'm pretty sure they cook their fries in vegetable oil," said I.

[rn57]

they ought to start calling these lists "our favorite" instead of bullshit, pretentious, self-important "greatest" or "the best." Just makes more sense and comes off better.

Im surprised they didnt have ALL FOUR of the Beatles one by one dominating the top five, knowing Rolling Stone and their insipid best albums list.

EDIT: Im not sure if Lennon and McCartney deserve quite such high spots solo. Since this list seems to include famous partnerships like Keith/Richards, they should have just had one Lennon/McCartney slot at #1. Just my opinion.

It makes sense to include Jagger/Richards as a team and put Lennon and McCartney in separately.  Though Mick has written songs by himself for his solo albums and Keef has penned several dozen with Steve Jordan for his solo output, none of those songs have had anywhere near the impact, sales, or recognition of the Jagger/Richards catalog.  As songwriters, though sometimes like John and Paul in the '60s they have written songs separately that appeared under their joint names, they're as joined at the hip as Leiber and Stoller.

Whereas both Lennon and McCartney had famous, chart-topping songs in their solo careers - indeed, in Lennon's case Give Peace A Chance and Imagine may be more recognized worldwide than any one Beatles song.

[PS]

The Bee Gees at 95? I remain continually puzzled how people who love pop music and especially the lost art of melodic writing continually only think of them as gold wearing clowns in white disco suits and don't recognize their consistent output of indelible tunes and peculiarly original lyrics (especially on the mid-late 60's work). Their first run of albums - the Bee Gees First, Horizontal, Idea, Odessa (their "Pepper" with some instrumental filler), Cucumber Castle, Trafalgar and 2 Years On - are marvelous records of consistently original songwriting, beautiful harmonies and and gorgeous (if sometimes overwrought) arrangements, with an output to rival most of their peers. The disco stuff, which I abhorred at the time, now sounds quite fresh and rich to me, one uncanny tune after another that somehow seems to flow "inevitably" in the writing and producing. The Saturday Night Fever run of singles took over the pop world in the late 70's completely re-invented themselves for another era. The windblown images are often ridiculous, but the music making - if you really listen - is quite beautiful.

A huge falloff in the spotty later years (admittedly the 80's were rather unkind to the surviving 60's groups in general), but I place their overall output over four decades just under the first tier greats, certainly in the top 20. I never tire of listening to them and treasure their peculiar gift for writing great tunes (and they are another band whose sound is so distinct that it's impossible to cover). Not just the singles folks. Check out those early albums and listen to the songwriting. Melodramatic, yes, but also striving for a great, emotional swell of sound. That fraternal thing in the distinctive harmonies that render as a single voice. I recognize that it might just be that it's the pop music I grew up on, one by one as they came out, and simply has no relevance to contemporary aural imaginations or senses of pleasure - I almost never see them mentioned around here, for example. where harmonies and great tunes are welcomed at the door and truly appreciated. The hip/unhip thing is something I care little about, but I know that's a huge part of the problem in appreciating the greatness of their achievement.

Here's to you, Barry, Robin, and Maurice.

[SBonilla]

No Antonia Carlos Jobim. These lists are always so meaningless.

Antonio

Wow.... the spelling police are on the job ( howe fuuking pathetick )

More Gender Playground Monitor.

[Terry]

I would say no Townes Van Zandt is pretty criminal.

[Mike's Beard]

The Bee Gees at 95?

Yeah and the guys from ABBA at 100? What's that all about?

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

The Bee Gees at 95?

Yeah and the guys from ABBA at 100? What's that all about?

They're not "cool" enough. And, as we've all independently concluded, this list is useless and insulting. Again, if they just called these "our favorite songwriters" it wouldn't come off that way.

[clack]

I'd have found a place for Todd Rundgren and Andy Partridge, but then I'm a melody guy.

[Amy B.]

Unless I missed them...

No Freddie Mercury
No Dennis Wilson
No Rufus Wainwright (or maybe his mother & aunt, the McGarrigle Sisters)
No Nina Simone
No Warren Zevon
No Ron Sexsmith
No Tori Amos

I understand you've got to leave some people out, but there are a few on the list who maybe don't deserve it as much. I won't knock Taylor Swift's inclusion because I'm not familiar with her songs, except Shake It Off.
But...it's just a list. 

[Gregg]

And was Jeff Lynne on the list? I would say that's a pretty huge omission.

[Bicyclerider]

No Kate Bush?  No Aimee Mann?

George Harrison almost 30 spots ahead of Cynthia Weil and Barry Mann?  I'm sure he wouldn't agree with that placing!

[bossaroo]

I love how they include Jay Z and Kanye West but exclude the Gershwins, Gene Clark, and so many others.

and I'm reminded of how they put Charlie Sheen on the cover of the issue with the C50 article.


fukk RS

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

No Kate Bush?  No Aimee Mann?

George Harrison almost 30 spots ahead of Cynthia Weil and Barry Mann?  I'm sure he wouldn't agree with that placing!

But he's a Beatle and for Rolling Stone that's automatically grounds for inclusion in the top tier of the list. I'm honestly surprised the 1,2,3 wasn't Paul, John and George knowing them.

[SurferDownUnder]

The Bee Gees at 95? I remain continually puzzled how people who love pop music and especially the lost art of melodic writing continually only think of them as gold wearing clowns in white disco suits and don't recognize their consistent output of indelible tunes and peculiarly original lyrics (especially on the mid-late 60's work). Their first run of albums - the Bee Gees First, Horizontal, Idea, Odessa (their "Pepper" with some instrumental filler), Cucumber Castle, Trafalgar and 2 Years On - are marvelous records of consistently original songwriting, beautiful harmonies and and gorgeous (if sometimes overwrought) arrangements, with an output to rival most of their peers. The disco stuff, which I abhorred at the time, now sounds quite fresh and rich to me, one after another uncanny tune that seem somehow made "inevitable" in the writing and producing - that Saturday Night Fever run of singles took over the pop melodic world as they completely re-invented themselves for another era. The image is ridiculous, but the music making is quite beautiful.

A huge falloff in the spotty later years (the 80's were rather unkind to the surviving 60's groups in general), but I place their overall output over four decades just under the first tier greats, certainly in the top 20. I never tire of listening to them and treasure their peculiar gift for writing great tunes (and they are another band whose sound is so distinct that it's impossible to cover). Not just the singles folks. Check out those early albums and listen to the songwriting. Melodramatic, yes, but also striving for a great, emotional swell of sound. That fraternal thing in the distinctive harmonies that render as a single voice. I recognize that it might just be that it's the pop music I grew up on, one by one as they came out, and simply has no relevance to contemporary audio imaginations or senses of pleasure - I almost never see them mentioned around here, for example. where harmonies and great tunes are welcomed at the door and truly appreciated. The hip/unhip thing is something I care little about, but I know that's a huge part of the problem in appreciating the greatness of their achievement.

Here's to you, Barry, Robin, and Maurice.

I agree with this 100%. To be at 95 with Bob Marley above them is quite frankly, f***ed. Barry shares the record for most consecutive number ones with Lennon/McCartney, he wrote arguably the most popular mainstream country song of all time (Islands in the Stream), opened up Streisand to a whole new audience and revitalized her career + Kenny Rogers + Dionne Warwicke. 50 years of work spanning blues, psychedelia, folk rock, R&B, blue-eyed soul and country and they are 95th???! How ridiculous. They are the only group in HISTORY to write, produce and record those 6 Number #1's. Barry Gibb had 5 top ten songs at the SAME TIME at one point. Wayne Newton recorded one of his songs he wrote in Australia at 18. That's incredible. His songs were Number #1 for 27 out of 37 weeks from 1977 to 1978. Very unappreciated and unnecessarily critically maligned group. Wordsmiths in the true sense of the word.

[felipe]

I don't think Brian should be behind Stevie Wonder, but Bob Marley really deserves to be ahead. My test for how strong a melody is is how good it sounds on acoustic guitar and voice only. Bob Marley beats Brian there.
The worst thing in this list is Taylor Swift in and Freddie Mercury out

[Mr. Wilson]

I cant object to much about most of the people on the list but.. placing Madonna and prince ahead of tom petty.. ray davies.. pete  townsend is insane.. so the list to me has no meaning..

[Misterlou]

My test for how strong a melody is is how good it sounds on acoustic guitar and voice only. Bob Marley beats Brian there.
The worst thing in this list is Taylor Swift in and Freddie Mercury out

I agree with your latter assertion.... Taylor Swift has no business being on this list.... but not the former. If the barometer of a strong melody, and, by extension, song, is how good it sounds on an acoustic guitar with voice only, then "Good Vibrations," which IMO is still the most astonishing, greatest song ever recorded, and a good portion of Brian's catalog in turn would not make the cut. I know you said melody, not song, but this is a list of greatest songwriters, not just melody writers. Not that I agree with the RS list, but they, and most others, would argue there is more to a good song than just a good melody. One might argue that Paul McCartney is at the top when it comes to melody making, but I believe Brian is at the top when it comes to songwriting - all the parts of it put together. Another amazing example of this: Let's Go Away for Awhile.

Here's a link to an interesting piece by Suzanne Vega, who says it better than I did. One quote from her article: "a great song does not need a well-crafted, “memorable” melody to work. There are a million examples of this — blues songs, folk songs, three-chord rock songs, rock poetry, rap music."

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/06/whats-a-melody-for/?_r=0