Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Songwriters - Brian at #12

[rn57]

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-songwriters

This list just went up at Rolling Stone's site.  For those who have been following RS editorial policy for the last half-century minus two years, the top 10 selections aren't particularly surprising - nor is the fact that Brian was placed just outside the top ten.  Some of these choices are mighty peculiar though. James Taylor, for instance. Most of his biggest hits were written by other people. (Then again, Harry Nilsson's two biggest hits were not songs he wrote, but he, deservedly I'd say, makes this list.) Where the Brill Building teams go - I would put Pomus and Shuman above Goffin and King. 

[Moon Dawg]

  Brian deserves his #12 ranking, but in my view his primary collaborators (Mike Love, Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks) merit mention as well. A reader unaware of the band's history would assume all of those songs were solo Brian compositions. His cowriters deserve a measure of the glory, even if Brian was clearly the primary creative force coming up with all those wonderful tunes.

  I also believe if Mike had been properly credited way back when, you would see more references to the Wilson-Love songwriting team. Was Mike an equal partner? Not quite, but as Terry Melcher once said, there's a "Mike Love element" in most of them.  This, I think, is the sort of thing that has driven Mike mad over the years.  

 Beyond that, Pete Townshend, Ray Davies, and John Fogerty could have been higher. Is Madonna really a songwriter? Kinda maybe yes, but she does not belong on this list. If Madonna belongs, why not a real talent like Aretha Franklin? Put Madonna and Aretha each alone in a room with a piano and/or guitar and I'll bet you damn near everything that Aretha comes up an easy winner.  

[Mike's Beard]

Wow, very pleasantly surprised to see Rolling Stone ranking Brian above Neil Young and The Boss.

[Dogbone51]

Rolling Stone and their lists.   Just a hodgepodge of opinions.

This is not to say that there isn't any truth to the list, but if you don't care for Bob Dylan, for instance, then his significance as a songwriter to you is null.

Any songwriter who writes a song which moves anybody in anyway, should be considered a "great" songwriter.

It's all a matter of taste.

Is Johnny Mercer on the list?  NO.  This is Bruce Johnston's favorite songwriter I believe!   What about Rodgers and Hammerstein?
There's so many that this list overlooks. 

Dogbone

[Dogbone51]

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-songwriters

This list just went up at Rolling Stone's site.  For those who have been following RS editorial policy for the last half-century minus two years, the top 10 selections aren't particularly surprising - nor is the fact that Brian was placed just outside the top ten.  Some of these choices are mighty peculiar though. James Taylor, for instance. Most of his biggest hits were written by other people. (Then again, Harry Nilsson's two biggest hits were not songs he wrote, but he, deservedly I'd say, makes this list.) Where the Brill Building teams go - I would put Pomus and Shuman above Goffin and King. 

You mention Nilsson.   His two biggest hits  "Everybody's Talkin'" written by Fred Neil   and "Without You" written by Badfinger's Pete Ham and Tom Evans.

Personally, I think Pete Ham should be on the list as well.  Amazing songwriter.   

Dogbone

[Debbie KL]

Yep - lists = clicks.  Even my editor wanted lists for awhile...it still comes up every once in awhile.

Brian's #12 position was certainly a fine one, although rankings on something so subjective are always "wrong" because everyone has different taste.  Most of us would rank him higher.  Time will tell.  Brian strikes me as more timeless than Dylan, but what the hell do I know about 200 years from now?

[clack]

I'd have rated Bacharach/David higher than Goffin/King myself.

[Sandy Baby]

Brian Wilson should be within the top 10.
Ray Davies and Pete Townsend should be higher up.
Happy to see Holland - Dozier - Holland.
How can R. Kelly be on the list, but not Warren Zevon?

[Debbie KL]

Brian Wilson should be within the top 10.
Ray Davies and Pete Townsend should be higher up.
Happy to see Holland - Dozier - Holland.
How can R. Kelly be on the list, but not Warren Zevon?

Yep - No matter what, it will be wrong.  Rankings suck, but we have all now clicked on it, so it works out for RS.

[rn57]

Brian Wilson should be within the top 10.
Ray Davies and Pete Townsend should be higher up.
Happy to see Holland - Dozier - Holland.
How can R. Kelly be on the list, but not Warren Zevon?

No doubt that Zevon is an underrated writer who probably could have been somewhere among the 100. Nick Drake and Syd Barrett are also missing (and probably would have been in the list if this had been done by a British magazine). But I was tickled to see Tom T. Hall in there. Wonder what Dylan, who ridiculed him at that awards speech recently, thinks about that.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

they ought to start calling these lists "our favorite" instead of bullshit, pretentious, self-important "greatest" or "the best." Just makes more sense and comes off better.

Im surprised they didnt have ALL FOUR of the Beatles one by one dominating the top five, knowing Rolling Stone and their insipid best albums list.

EDIT: Im not sure if Lennon and McCartney deserve quite such high spots solo. Since this list seems to include famous partnerships like Keith/Richards, they should have just had one Lennon/McCartney slot at #1. Just my opinion.

[Musketeer]

No Freddie Mercury.

[NateRuvin]

Taylor Swift but no Denny Wilson...?
Jay Z but no Bruce Johnston...?

[rogerlancelot]

EDIT: Im not sure if Lennon and McCartney deserve quite such high spots solo. Since this list seems to include famous partnerships like Keith/Richards, they should have just had one Lennon/McCartney slot at #1. Just my opinion.

To me, Paul McCartney has still been delivering the goods off and on since 1970. I believe he deserves his own solo place but I was confused when I didn't see the Mike Love / Terry Melcher duo on there.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

EDIT: Im not sure if Lennon and McCartney deserve quite such high spots solo. Since this list seems to include famous partnerships like Keith/Richards, they should have just had one Lennon/McCartney slot at #1. Just my opinion.

To me, Paul McCartney has still been delivering the goods off and on since 1970. I believe he deserves his own solo place but I was confused when I didn't see the Mike Love / Terry Melcher duo on there.

Yeah I'm not trying to diminish his solo work, it just seems inconsistent to list partnerships and then leave off the best one for the sake of their solo careers which don't compare.

I don't see Frank Zappa on this list, now that I've browsed the whole thing. That's indefensible. He should be on there for the first 5 Mothers' albums alone, not to mention being one of the single most prolific and diversified artists of all time. Absolutely inexcusable, whether you personally like him or not.

[Mike's Beard]

I nearly stopped reading when I saw Taylor Swift's name, even if it was in the low 90s.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Criminal omissions:

Peter Gabriel
David Crosby
Isely-Jasper-Isely
Stephen Stills
Neil Finn
k. d. lang

[Dudd]

And the criminal inclusion would be Morrissey?

[Dogbone51]

Criminal omissions:

Peter Gabriel
David Crosby
Isely-Jasper-Isely
Stephen Stills
Neil Finn
k. d. lang

Who's that other one you like AGD?  Jim Steinman?    And not only Neil Finn....but Tim Finn is another amazing writer who doesn't get his due outside of Australia/New Zealand.

Dogbone

[Pacific Ocean Blue]

And the criminal inclusion would be Morrissey?

He should be in the top 100

[Smilin Ed H]

Sorry, but while I can see why aRSe did this, considering its demographic and the need to look like whatever passes for cool, but our boy shouldn't be behind Jagger/Richards or Bob Marley and I'm not sure he should be behind Wonder, much as I love him.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Criminal omissions:

Peter Gabriel
David Crosby
Isely-Jasper-Isely
Stephen Stills
Neil Finn
k. d. lang

Who's that other one you like AGD?  Jim Steinman?    And not only Neil Finn....but Tim Finn is another amazing writer who doesn't get his due outside of Australia/New Zealand.

Dogbone

Much as I love the SteinMan, even I wouldn't argue he was one of the 100 best songwriters in R&R. His lyrics can be, to be charitable, overwrought and his arrangements just the ludicrous side of bombastic... but by crackey they're a damn fine listen, and superb value for money. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

And the criminal inclusion would be Morrissey?

He should be in the top 100

He is (w/Marr, himself a fine, fine musician) and that inclusion alone invalidates the entire exercise. I detest the odious, opinionated, caterwauling twat with a passion usually reserved for a certain 1965 single. He offends me by the simple action of breathing. Oh that he would desist.

[Smilin Ed H]

Actually, overall, I'd take Brian (and his various collaborators over Smokey too. In fact, I'd have Marvin Gaye and Randy Newman before Smokey, Stevie and especially Marley. I'd have Paddy McAloon and Becker and Fagen over Marley.

[beatnickle]

 No Antonia Carlos Jobim. These lists are always so meaningless.