Why do you hate Mike Love?

[guitarfool2002]

For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal.

Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away).

Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too.

Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr.

So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners.

Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names.

Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans.

In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun".

The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on.

Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums.

James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music".

So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest.  

[rab2591]

The 1991 POB re-release became unavailable due to copyright ownership disagreements...not because it didn't sell.

Which was exactly my point, that there are other reasons an album could be out of print besides poor sales.

And the fact it had poor sales and was the first Beach Boys studio album that failed to chart tells me it's a lousy album which is my point. It also helps solidify that even if there are other legal problems with a re-release, I doubt anyone in Beach Boys management is seeing dollar signs when it comes to this album.

 POB has been critically acclaimed, stayed on the billboard charts for 12 weeks at it's release, it's on MOJOs list of 'Lost Albums You Must Own'. Again, what did SIP get?

Good thing I'm not claiming SIP to be in the same league as POB then, isn't it?

Didn't say you did you did, sport. Just listing the accolades it has received which is why it has gotten re-released multiple times, unlike SIP.

[Mike's Beard]

I think Stars and Stripes is a far worse album, I've managed to listen to that stinker about twice.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Agreed. I hate country to begin with, at least THAT style of country, and the execution was horrible.

[Cam Mott]

So it seems it probably was pretty much as the liner notes have it. Haddad had the concept, Wojcik had the contacts, Mike did logistics and probably financial, Brian and Thomas did the "creative", all the Boys participated in recording and promotion.

[Gerry]

You know I really don't get why some of you waste your time coming to this board. People like drbeachboy and Mike's beard(you know what that makes you right?) This whole Brian vs. Mike thing is futile. It's art vs. commerce. I have always subscribed to Dennis' thoughts about Brian;"He is the Beach Boys,we're just his fucking messengers". I do think Mike gets blamed too much but his personality encourages it. Things like sitting there when Carl got punched by Rocky Pamplin or saying that Brian's first solo album was sh*t in the Goldmine article. Doing the 1981 Long Beach concert without Carl which did a fair amount of harm to their reputation. The cheerleaders onstage in the '90's, yes I know that the other Boys signed off on it but Mike came up with the idea.By the way, comparing SIP with those other albums is just sheer ignorance and bad taste. SIP would've been a better if Brian had been involved with it. Go listen to the Sea of Tunes stuff if you are wondering who the Beach Boys were. Somebody else knocked Brian's solo albums, only in America would people criticize an artist of Brian's magnitude. I don't know if you take Mike's side because you feel somebody has to or you really believe it, but I wish you a lot of luck.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I don't think SIP would've been better with Brian on it...sound is too tinny.

[Autotune]

You know I really don't get why some of you waste your time coming to this board. People like drbeachboy and Mike's beard(you know what that makes you right?) This whole Brian vs. Mike thing is futile. It's art vs. commerce. I have always subscribed to Dennis' thoughts about Brian;"He is the Beach Boys,we're just his fucking messengers". I do think Mike gets blamed too much but his personality encourages it. Things like sitting there when Carl got punched by Rocky Pamplin or saying that Brian's first solo album was sh*t in the Goldmine article. Doing the 1981 Long Beach concert without Carl which did a fair amount of harm to their reputation. The cheerleaders onstage in the '90's, yes I know that the other Boys signed off on it but Mike came up with the idea.By the way, comparing SIP with those other albums is just sheer ignorance and bad taste. SIP would've been a better if Brian had been involved with it. Go listen to the Sea of Tunes stuff if you are wondering who the Beach Boys were. Somebody else knocked Brian's solo albums, only in America would people criticize an artist of Brian's magnitude. I don't know if you take Mike's side because you feel somebody has to or you really believe it, but I wish you a lot of luck.

But here it's you purporting this Brian vs. Mike bullshit. Why are there supposed to be two factions? Why is it an x vs. y situation? It is you and others making it that way. Reality is more intricate and subtle than that.

[Gerry]

My point being ,anytime Brian is involved with some project it is intrinsically better.

[Gerry]

We all know that reality is usually grey but the fact is we don't know the actual  reality of most Beach Boy incidents, infamous or otherwise, only what we read . That is the starting point for most of us.

[Gerry]

I'm not creating any situation only what I encounter here every day. My point in the previous rant and probably not said very well is that in terms of talent and influence Mike is not even in the same universe as Brian . To compare Mike with Brian in any way ,shape or form is an insult to the legacy of the Beach Boys and music in general.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

I'm not creating any situation only what I encounter here every day. My point in the previous rant and probably not said very well is that in terms of talent and influence Mike is not even in the same universe as Brian . To compare Mike with Brian in any way ,shape or form is an insult to the legacy of the Beach Boys and music in general.

    Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo damn true.

[rab2591]

You know I really don't get why some of you waste your time coming to this board. People like drbeachboy and Mike's beard(you know what that makes you right?) This whole Brian vs. Mike thing is futile. It's art vs. commerce. I have always subscribed to Dennis' thoughts about Brian;"He is the Beach Boys,we're just his fucking messengers". I do think Mike gets blamed too much but his personality encourages it. Things like sitting there when Carl got punched by Rocky Pamplin or saying that Brian's first solo album was sh*t in the Goldmine article. Doing the 1981 Long Beach concert without Carl which did a fair amount of harm to their reputation. The cheerleaders onstage in the '90's, yes I know that the other Boys signed off on it but Mike came up with the idea.By the way, comparing SIP with those other albums is just sheer ignorance and bad taste. SIP would've been a better if Brian had been involved with it. Go listen to the Sea of Tunes stuff if you are wondering who the Beach Boys were. Somebody else knocked Brian's solo albums, only in America would people criticize an artist of Brian's magnitude. I don't know if you take Mike's side because you feel somebody has to or you really believe it, but I wish you a lot of luck.

Sadly the cheerleader thing has been done in very recent years, most notably this performance from 2013. Keepin' the legacy alive, folks!

As for the Mike apologists here on Smiley Smile, they will petulantly knock charting Brian albums ("steaming pile of sh*t" lololol) and come up with convoluted arguments to try and defend any statement Mike makes or any action he does. They will use comments dripping with sarcasm to berate how people feel about Brian's music. Just look at this post from the former member Kittykat regarding No Pier Pressure:

I have to get my smug, condescending, patronizing hat on and start writing five paragraph posts how we should only write positive things about the music of 72 year old Brian Wilson, who is FULLY in control of every note written on his new album. He wrote every song, every note! He arranged every flyspeck on e every chart played on by Jeff Beck and all other session players. He decided every song that was to appear on the album. He produced it all, sliding every slider. He hand-picked every singer who appeared on the album, deciding all the way to last year to have Lana Del So and So and Frank Ocean to sing on his album, because they are his favorite artists, because Jason Fine said they are his favorite artists. Sure, I have to believe that, he's 72  I can't wait to hear it. It will be the best thing since "Pet Sounds" and every bit of an example of how Brian is in total control.  Joe Thomas is just there to worship him from afar. Probably working for free, like a student auditing a master class.

(http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17691.msg463451.html#msg463451)

And elsewhere in Kittykat’s post history (most notably her last post) you’ll see evidence of a complete lack of respect for Brian and those around him. Within the last year another apologist compared certain Brian fans to suicide bombers and one person alluded to the idea that Joe Thomas should throw himself from high rise window. Certain members here used to be quite audible in their belief that Brian is currently controlled by handlers/Melinda. One person here has admitted he’ll defend everything Mike Love does (excluding the song ‘Wrinkles’) - and he has a proven track record of doing exactly that.

It doesn't surprise me that these type of followers gravitate towards Mike....just a shame that not only do we have to trawl through Mike's sometimes tactless interviews but we also have to read some lousy defense of these interviews by the handful of devoted Mike apologists who insist Mike can do no wrong.

[Cam Mott]

According to Mike, Still Cruisin'  was a democratically political album with each Boy getting "two songs each" and the original album concept was "diluted" to accommodate Landy and Al.

He also said he "was not happy that the album was half repackage and half politics".

[SMiLE Brian]

Sounds like Mike was pissed there were new songs on the album and not just retread songs.

[ontor pertawst]

Well, you know how Mike is when the rest of the band thwart his concept albums. They just weren't receptive enough or sensitive enough to see his vision.

[Cam Mott]

Sounds like Mike was pissed there were new songs on the album and not just retread songs.

He was not happy that the original concept of music that had been in a movie was diluted for political reasons with songs that had not been in a movie, not that they were new songs.

Doesn't sound like he was in charge or control either.

[ontor pertawst]

You should lobby Mike to undilute his original vision, bring us MIKE LOVE PRESENTS STILL CRUISIN'

Director's cut. Rerecord 'em, see if Bruno Mars will return his calls.

Then he can explain why Somewhere Near Japan didn't count in the dilution department, while BW and AJ's songs did. Maybe it was featured in a documentary on toilets in Osaka or something, I dunno.

I think the world is ready now to face the full majesty of Mike Love's vision for this album.

This is where someone pipes in with "Actually I'd love a compilation of their soundtrack music, I'm one of four fans of Problem Child!"

[Cam Mott]

Then he can explain why Somewhere Near Japan didn't count in the dilution department, while BW and AJ's songs did. Maybe it was featured in a documentary on toilets in Osaka or something, I dunno.

Maybe.  Maybe after Landy and Al had broken the concept Mike was receptive enough or sensitive enough to see their vision.

Was Wipeout ever in a movie either?

[Empire Of Love]

So it seems it probably was pretty much as the liner notes have it. Haddad had the concept, Wojcik had the contacts, Mike did logistics and probably financial, Brian and Thomas did the "creative", all the Boys participated in recording and promotion.

Do the liner notes state Brian did the creative?  I'm not seeing that in the prior posts, only that Brian requested Willie.  I don't own it so I can't check for myself.

EoL

[Empire Of Love]

You know I really don't get why some of you waste your time coming to this board. People like drbeachboy and Mike's beard(you know what that makes you right?) This whole Brian vs. Mike thing is futile. It's art vs. commerce. I have always subscribed to Dennis' thoughts about Brian;"He is the Beach Boys,we're just his fucking messengers". I do think Mike gets blamed too much but his personality encourages it. Things like sitting there when Carl got punched by Rocky Pamplin or saying that Brian's first solo album was sh*t in the Goldmine article. Doing the 1981 Long Beach concert without Carl which did a fair amount of harm to their reputation. The cheerleaders onstage in the '90's, yes I know that the other Boys signed off on it but Mike came up with the idea.By the way, comparing SIP with those other albums is just sheer ignorance and bad taste. SIP would've been a better if Brian had been involved with it. Go listen to the Sea of Tunes stuff if you are wondering who the Beach Boys were. Somebody else knocked Brian's solo albums, only in America would people criticize an artist of Brian's magnitude. I don't know if you take Mike's side because you feel somebody has to or you really believe it, but I wish you a lot of luck.

But here it's you purporting this Brian vs. Mike bullshit. Why are there supposed to be two factions? Why is it an x vs. y situation? It is you and others making it that way. Reality is more intricate and subtle than that.

Who are you trying to kid?

1. Mike makes anti-Brian comments publicly and people here read them, you've read and commented on them.

2. Mike has initiated lawsuits against Brian (and Al) and I'm not just talking about the song writing credits lawsuit.  Are you unaware of these lawsuits?  I am pretty sure you've commented in those threads as well.

I don't think people here are making it that way.  I think Mike is making it that way.  Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is Mike.
 

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

You know I really don't get why some of you waste your time coming to this board. People like drbeachboy and Mike's beard(you know what that makes you right?) This whole Brian vs. Mike thing is futile. It's art vs. commerce. I have always subscribed to Dennis' thoughts about Brian;"He is the Beach Boys,we're just his fucking messengers". I do think Mike gets blamed too much but his personality encourages it. Things like sitting there when Carl got punched by Rocky Pamplin or saying that Brian's first solo album was sh*t in the Goldmine article. Doing the 1981 Long Beach concert without Carl which did a fair amount of harm to their reputation. The cheerleaders onstage in the '90's, yes I know that the other Boys signed off on it but Mike came up with the idea.By the way, comparing SIP with those other albums is just sheer ignorance and bad taste. SIP would've been a better if Brian had been involved with it. Go listen to the Sea of Tunes stuff if you are wondering who the Beach Boys were. Somebody else knocked Brian's solo albums, only in America would people criticize an artist of Brian's magnitude. I don't know if you take Mike's side because you feel somebody has to or you really believe it, but I wish you a lot of luck.

[Cam Mott]

So it seems it probably was pretty much as the liner notes have it. Haddad had the concept, Wojcik had the contacts, Mike did logistics and probably financial, Brian and Thomas did the "creative", all the Boys participated in recording and promotion.

Do the liner notes state Brian did the creative?  I'm not seeing that in the prior posts, only that Brian requested Willie.  I don't own it so I can't check for myself.

EoL

Brian and Joe are credited as the album's Producer.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Then he can explain why Somewhere Near Japan didn't count in the dilution department, while BW and AJ's songs did. Maybe it was featured in a documentary on toilets in Osaka or something, I dunno.

Maybe.  Maybe after Landy and Al had broken the concept Mike was receptive enough or sensitive enough to see their vision.

Was Wipeout ever in a movie either?

Yeah, that must have been it 

[Cam Mott]

Then he can explain why Somewhere Near Japan didn't count in the dilution department, while BW and AJ's songs did. Maybe it was featured in a documentary on toilets in Osaka or something, I dunno.

Maybe.  Maybe after Landy and Al had broken the concept Mike was receptive enough or sensitive enough to see their vision.

Was Wipeout ever in a movie either?

Yeah, that must have been it 

Please share if you know different.