Smile's Likely Commercial Performance (or lack of) in 1967?

[DonnyL]

Let's not forget they were still wearing striped shirts on the back cover.

Actually, they were checked shirts, not striped.  

hahaha that's true! Let's just say they were still wearing ice cream man clothing. Don't get me wrong, I love those shirts (used to have one!) ... but were kinda squaresville by '67.

Personally, I think Smiley Smile is way hipper than Smile ... completely out of this world. Not as musically significant, but very much like Pet Sounds in that a special 'world' was created with the record. Like Dennis said, they double-dared anyone to do anything like that. I mean, I love the record. Smile ... not sure, it never has sounded complete to me, as it's been released. And I don't think it ever could truly be pieced together in a way that really works. That's the beauty of Smile -- it's a 'what if?' jigsaw. I think the way the songs trickled out over the subsequent records is beautiful, and went a long way in solidifying the Beach Boys myth of the late '60s-early '70s.

[Lonely Summer]

Woulda been G I G A N T I C A L L Y huge...and successful.  Would have been one of the top 2 lps of the year.  NO doubt.  Would have undone the future...and not just for the Beach Boys.

My biggest regret ever in terms of music is that we had to wait for this specific music to reach us for as long as we did.  The fan interest in it...and in sequencing it...was [and still is] impressive.

Brian needed help during the first 1/2 of 1967.  There was none forthcoming...until Darian Sahanaja.  BWPS was magic.  A gift from the great beyond.  It was a real blessing to hear it finished.  It was a KEY lifetime highlight to experience it live.  Back in 1967 it would have owned the world...and the world would have been glad of it and would have been a better place because of it.

Too bad there wasn't a Darian Sahanaja back in 1967 to make Brian Wilson hip.

[Lee Marshall]

To make Brian hip?     What?  A Darian was needed to help Brian put the jigsaw puzzle together.

[Cam Mott]

Continuing to wear those matching outfits might have hurt their hip quotient more than anything. Did even GV really create a hipness wave commensurate with its place in Pop history at the time?

[filledeplage]

Continuing to wear those matching outfits might have hurt their hip quotation more than anything. Did even GV really create a hipness wave commensurate with its place in Pop history at the time?

Smiley came out September 18, 1967.
GV was released October 10, 1966
Heroes was July 24, 1967.

They had the striped shirts only 8 weeks or so after Smiley was released. The Ian/Jon book has only three show dates listing them in the striped shirts post Smiley release.  

They had their 5th annual Thanksgiving Tour starting November 17th. This was Detroit. I remember the distinct
and collective gasp, sitting with my friends as they walked out in the white suits. Where were their trademark striped shirts?

But they looked sharp. No doubt.  In 2015,  Al still "rocks the suit."

Smiley was, as DonnieL says, 'hip" and probably behind Pet Sounds.  I also agree with JeffH in that the average fan would not have "gotten it" but more likely because they didn't invest enough time to listen and re-listen on a record player.  There was too much diversion in music in 1967, historically as "competition" for the "ears at the record player."

But, first, I do think it was a colossal mistake not to use the original "concrete" storefront Smile artwork in primary colors. Green is a secondary color and doesn't catch the eye as effectively as red. And abstract, muted pale green.  It didn't "pop" amidst "pop art" of that era. Primary colors! Eye-grabbing.  

Their photos were not on the reverse with striped shirts on the LP.  ( I do have a French version CD with bonus tracks with a 1964-ish photo on the front with Brian in the "5" lineup, which came out in the late 90's.)   It could not have been released at a worse time with the new vortex of competition. Kids had too many new acts on the scene to distract them from the BB's work.  I agree with AddSome on this.

Second, it could have been marketed as Smile vol. 1, in order to indicate it was a partial release with more to come. No 14 year old would have known the difference.  I fear it could have been lost-in-the-shuffle. Surf's Up was absent.  So we knew they were "holding back" the goods.  It was something to look forward to and keep inquiring about.

In some interview, Brian is saying he got "so close to it or so next to it," that he had to "chuck it" (Smile) for awhile. I believe he was being candid.  And that Brian was holding the cards.   Who knew it would be 37 years? But it seems they had commitments to "release something" and this 1st "Brother Records" was perceived as a "false start." But, not really.  Smiley, though considered "incomplete" is its own very accepted classic, by many.  But only if the time was taken to listen.  

Teens, often are fickle, with ADD. Poor Smiley should be given more respect.  

[Cam Mott]

Right, but I don't think it was the stripes or the shirts so much as that they were still wearing "matching" costumes of any sort. 

[filledeplage]

Right, but I don't think it was the stripes or the shirts so much as that they were still wearing "matching" costumes of any sort. 

Cam - I'm thinking it was a function of a few other things, such as being marketing-deprived, and not uniformed clothing. After all Lennon wore a white suit on the cover of Abbey Road several years later. 

There were GV videos which have been on YouTube pulled from TV appearances.  Don't remember Heroes on TV or much advertising, in the way of album promos. 

Brian wore a dark shirt (no stripes) for the Surf's Up solo for Bernstein's special, taped in late '66 and aired in April of '67. 

[Lee Marshall]

I agree with that Cam.  But they didn't wear those clown suits on the album covers and MOST people HEARD them [radio]...rather than saw them [comcerts].

[CenturyDeprived]

A few interesting alternate realities to ponder, which popped into my head when reading this thread.

- What if Smiley Smile was released (at the exact same date, September 18, 1967 that it was actually released), but it was called "SMiLE" instead of "Smiley Smile", and had the original "SMiLE" LP artwork? Does this scenario in any way, shape or form effect the album's reception/sales, since an album called "SMiLE" had for months been promoted in print? Maybe it makes it more of a bummer, reception-wise. I dunno...

- Same question as above, but what if Smiley Smile (in its current form) was released with the original "SMiLE" LP artwork as "SMiLE" in late '66/ early '67, at the time that "SMiLE" was anticipated to be released?

- Did Smiley Smile only receive its eventual title due to the fact that "SMiLE" had for months been promoted in print? If that had not been a publicly known pre-release title, would it have gotten that title at all?  

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

A few interesting alternate realities to ponder, which popped into my head when reading this thread.

- What if Smiley Smile was released (at the exact same date, September 18, 1967 that it was actually released), but it was called "SMiLE" instead of "Smiley Smile", and had the original "SMiLE" LP artwork? Does this scenario in any way, shape or form effect the album's reception/sales, since an album called "SMiLE" had for months been promoted in print? Maybe it makes it more of a bummer, reception-wise. I dunno...

- Same question as above, but what if Smiley Smile (in its current form) was released with the original "SMiLE" LP artwork as "SMiLE" in late '66/ early '67, at the time that "SMiLE" was anticipated to be released?

- Did Smiley Smile only receive its eventual title due to the fact that "SMiLE" had for months been promoted in print? If that had not been a publicly known pre-release title, would it have gotten that title at all?  

In both scenarios, I'd guess better commercial and worse critical reception. Better commercial the earlier it's released. And I'd say the title change was purposeful. SMiLE was still possibly going to come out later, and this Smiley Smile was recorded in a far different style. One evolved from the other, yes, but I think Brian saw them as different projects.

[filledeplage]

A few interesting alternate realities to ponder, which popped into my head when reading this thread.

- What if Smiley Smile was released (at the exact same date, September 18, 1967 that it was actually released), but it was called "SMiLE" instead of "Smiley Smile", and had the original "SMiLE" LP artwork? Does this scenario in any way, shape or form effect the album's reception/sales, since an album called "SMiLE" had for months been promoted in print? Maybe it makes it more of a bummer, reception-wise. I dunno...

- Same question as above, but what if Smiley Smile (in its current form) was released with the original "SMiLE" LP artwork as "SMiLE" in late '66/ early '67, at the time that "SMiLE" was anticipated to be released?

- Did Smiley Smile only receive its eventual title due to the fact that "SMiLE" had for months been promoted in print? If that had not been a publicly known pre-release title, would it have gotten that title at all?  

In 1967, "ignorance could have been bliss." I'd never have known the difference unless I was told.  It could have been released in segments.  Smiley is 27 minutes and Brian's Smile live (perhaps as envisioned) is 51.  So double album at least.

(From wiki)
Brian..."of Surf's Up...it was supposed to come out on the Smile album and that and a couple of other songs were junked...[because I] didn't want to put them on the album. ( what people were waiting for, since the Bernstein performance) I didn't think that the songs were right for the public at the time.  I just didn't have a commercial feeling about some of these songs, and what we've never released. Maybe some people like to hang on to certain songs that they've written almost for themselves.  You know, what they've written is nice for them...but a lot of people don't like it."

Brian..."We had done about six months work on another thing, but we jumped and ended up doing an entirely different mood and approach than what we originally started out with."

Carl..."it was also a thing of, 'What if it didn't turn out to be great, what if it totally flopped.' That would have completely destroyed him [ Brian].  We would have lost him forever in terms of having any communication with him. In the middle of all this, Brian just said, 'I can't do this. (Smile) We're going to make a homespun version of it instead. We're going to take it easy. Ill get in the pool and sing. Or we'll go to in the gym and do our parts.'"

The "pool" was empty due to a leak. (Homespun Echo chamber) And the "lo-fi" was the "homespun" aspect.  So I guess fear was pervasive among the band.  

Smile (and Smiley) is sort of like a Venn diagram, with some things in common, or a subset, some different but a common core. From what I've read, it was a real BB production.  It seems a real fear (and maybe very reasonable) of the unknown by the band.  But, it (Smiley) is a really beautiful work of vocal BB art.  

[filledeplage]

A few interesting alternate realities to ponder, which popped into my head when reading this thread.

- What if Smiley Smile was released (at the exact same date, September 18, 1967 that it was actually released), but it was called "SMiLE" instead of "Smiley Smile", and had the original "SMiLE" LP artwork? Does this scenario in any way, shape or form effect the album's reception/sales, since an album called "SMiLE" had for months been promoted in print? Maybe it makes it more of a bummer, reception-wise. I dunno...

- Same question as above, but what if Smiley Smile (in its current form) was released with the original "SMiLE" LP artwork as "SMiLE" in late '66/ early '67, at the time that "SMiLE" was anticipated to be released?

- Did Smiley Smile only receive its eventual title due to the fact that "SMiLE" had for months been promoted in print? If that had not been a publicly known pre-release title, would it have gotten that title at all?  

In 1967, "ignorance could have been bliss." I'd never have known the difference unless I was told.  It could have been released in segments.  Smiley is 27 minutes and Brian's Smile live (perhaps as envisioned) is 51.  So double album at least.

(From wiki)
Brian..."of Surf's Up...it was supposed to come out on the Smile album and that and a couple of other songs were junked...[because I] didn't want to put them on the album. ( what people were waiting for, since the Bernstein performance) I didn't think that the songs were right for the public at the time.  I just didn't have a commercial feeling about some of these songs, and what we've never released. Maybe some people like to hang on to certain songs that they've written almost for themselves.  You know, what they've written is nice for them...but a lot of people don't like it."

Brian..."We had done about six months work on another thing, but we jumped and ended up doing an entirely different mood and approach than what we originally started out with."

Carl..."it was also a thing of, 'What if it didn't turn out to be great, what if it totally flopped.' That would have completely destroyed him [ Brian].  We would have lost him forever in terms of having any communication with him. In the middle of all this, Brian just said, 'I can't do this. (Smile) We're going to make a homespun version of it instead. We're going to take it easy. Ill get in the pool and sing. Or we'll go to in the gym and do our parts.'"

The "pool" was empty due to a leak. (Homespun Echo chamber) And the "lo-fi" was the "homespun" aspect.  So I guess fear was pervasive among the band.  

Smile (and Smiley) is sort of like a Venn diagram, with some things in common, or a subset, some different but a common core. From what I've read, it was a real BB production.  It seems a real fear (and maybe very reasonable) of the unknown by the band.  But, it (Smiley) is a really beautiful work of vocal BB art.  

Thread bump for Chocolate Shake Man...