Planned Parenthood exposed -- CAUTION

[runnersdialzero]

You should become a vegetarian like me.

   What if someone becomes a vegetarian AND a tree-hugger?  Let alone, if they're a college "educated" Leftist, which sees mankind as a disease and the planet's biggest threat -- do they become cannibals?

The answer is yes.

oic
i
c

[Jim V.]

Hey Bean Bag...


BENGHAZI!!!

[Bean Bag]

You should become a vegetarian like me.

   What if someone becomes a vegetarian AND a tree-hugger?  Let alone, if they're a college "educated" Leftist, which sees mankind as a disease and the planet's biggest threat -- do they become cannibals?

The answer is yes.

oic
i
c

Well, yea.  But I think vegetarianism, is pretty cool.  I do mean that.  As a kid I thought they were crazy people.  And ... shoot, maybe they still are.  Killing and eating the vegetables.  BUT... I do appreciate vegetables more at my stage.  So I'm practically there.

[filledeplage]

You should become a vegetarian like me.

   What if someone becomes a vegetarian AND a tree-hugger?  Let alone, if they're a college "educated" Leftist, which sees mankind as a disease and the planet's biggest threat -- do they become cannibals?

The answer is yes.

Bean Bag - FYI - the first congressional hearing took place this past Wednesday for defunding PP, and has been repeated on CSPAN. 

[Loaf]

Thanks for the reply.

I've had a look into the Henry Makow webpage. Makow appears to be an utterly paranoid crank (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Henry_Makow). From wikipedia:

The Beatles were Illuminati mind controllers who promoted drug use, free sex and the New Age movement. [...] Makow knows this because of a gesture John Lennon made with his hand on the cover of Yellow Submarine

and so i certainly wouldn't trust anything he puts on his page 

The article itself, heavily excerpted and edited by Makow, is unreferenced and unscientific, and is very economical with the truth, if you follow up some of the stories reported elsewhere on the internet. The article's original author, Tom Valentine (a "veteran health commentator" according to Makow) is an alternative-medicine proponent who makes money off of "enzyme" supplements (https://www.carotec.com/aboutus), and whose company's products are thoroughly debunked here (https://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/wobenzym-n-a-closer-look-at-systemic-enzyme-therapy/)

And so I certainly wouldn't trust the original, also unreferenced, unscientific 1996 article by Tom Valentine, which he didn't even give a title to. Just "By Tom Valentine, Winter 1996", from what i could find online.


So, if you put stock in being skeptical of the people behind any allegation, Henry Makow and Tom Valentine would certainly come very far down the list in people whose viewpoints i would trust. They are like those people you see hanging around at bus stations even though they aren't waiting for a bus.


This discussion is going to go around in circles, however the best (and most succinct) that I can find on the subject (and this only refers to Polio vaccine 1955-1962, and not to any polio vaccine after this date) is a well-referenced paragraph on wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40

The hypothesis that SV40 might cause cancer in humans has been a particularly controversial area of research.[11] Several methods have detected SV40 in a variety of human cancers, although how reliable these detection methods are, and whether SV40 has any role in causing these tumors, remains unclear.[12] As a result of these uncertainties, academic opinion remains divided, with some arguing that this hypothesis is not supported by the data[13] and others arguing that some cancers may involve SV40.[14][15] The US National Cancer Institute announced in 2004 that although SV40 does cause cancer in some animal models, "substantial epidemiological evidence has accumulated to indicate that SV40 likely does not cause cancer in humans".[16] This announcement was based on two studies.[17][18] This 2004 announcement is in contrast to a 2002 study performed by The National Academy of Sciences Immunization Safety Review committee that stated, "The committee concludes that the biological evidence is moderate that SV40 exposure could lead to cancer in humans under natural conditions.”[19] However, Namika, Goodison,...and Rosser found that the SV40 large t-antigen, in combination with mycoplasma, often a contaminate of vaccines and which were also likely to have infected Eddy's hamsters, can cause prostate cells to turn cancerous. Whether or not this is true for other human cells is debated.[20]

This admits the debate, but says that evidence that the vaccine did cause cancer is inconclusive at best.

This is a viewpoint repeated over and over again by credible sources:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221113/

Some of the polio vaccine administered from 1955–1963 was contaminated with a virus, called simian virus 40 (SV40). The virus came from the monkey kidney cell cultures used to produce the vaccine. Most, but not all, of the contamination was in the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). Once the contamination was recognized, steps were taken to eliminate it from future vaccines. Researchers have long wondered about the effects of the contaminated vaccine on people who received it. Although SV40 has biological properties consistent with a cancer-causing virus, it has not been conclusively established whether it might have caused cancer in humans. Studies of groups of people who received polio vaccine during 1955–1963 provide evidence of no increased cancer risk. However, because these epidemiologic studies are sufficiently flawed, the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety Review Committee concluded that the evidence was inadequate to conclude whether or not the contaminated polio vaccine caused cancer. In light of the biological evidence supporting the theory that SV40-contamination of polio vaccines could contribute to human cancers, the committee recommends continued public health attention in the form of policy analysis, communication, and targeted biological research.

And for a more pop-science take on it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1860042.stm

So i'm not denying there is reason to investigate here, but when scientifically addressed, the data is inconclusive at best.


I would also like it to be noted that the above articles mentions scientific reports from both sides of the argument. Science gets quite a bashing on here, and elsewhere, with people saying that all scientists are paid off by Big Pharma, or under the government control, or have their conflicting data repressed. And this just isn't true (in by far the majority of circumstances). It's a viewpoint peddled repeatedly, usually by those such as Henry Makow, who want to benefit from sufficient doubt to put people off, and it's a viewpoint people trot out over and over again.

However, from the last few pages of posts on vaccines and the validity of the research, what we have seen, over and over again, is that scientific data is open and available to scrutiny and addresses both sides of a debate. A scientific viewpoint will start with a question, and seek to address that question.

What we have seen from the "vaccines = evil" side of things is that they start with their endpoint (Vaccines = evil) and work back from there, selectively including half-truths and quotes from debunked long-dead doctors to support their viewpoint.

It seems to me that this is more an issue of trust than the actual scientific data. There is an extreme culture in the USA of distrust (Preppers, Birthers, Truthers, anti-vaxers, and certainly anything that even seems remotely "intellectual" or educated) that simply doesn't exist to such an extent in the rest of the developed world. And i think before taking a stance on an issue, this peculiar unique-to-American culture viewpoint ought to be addressed

Sorry for the essay above, but why do Americans have such a distrust of these things? I'm genuinely curious. What is it about American culture that creates this fear?

[filledeplage]

Loaf - most boomers know at least one person who had polio or who has post-polio symptom recurrence. I know several.

If you think about an epidemic in the 1950's (including a President of the U.S.) people might think that a remote chance of cancer down the line is outweighed by a vaccination or series of them, to prevent the disease with poor or little treatment.

But as people look around and become networked and enlightened, more info about corrupt scientific practices come to light.  We have learned that large batches of vaccines were sent overseas to be used on others. This is while concealing information that the vaccines were problematic. And many find that morally repugnant.  The polio vaccine thing is just incidental to the autism issues. 

Motivated parents are not going to allow corrupt practices in science or medicine deter them from finding a source for the damage to their children.  It is Big Pharma's biggest fear.  They had been entrusted with the confidence of the public and they violated that trust. 

Speaking for myself, we were trained to question authority, and think critically.  And not believe everything you hear or are taught.  And if an author who is opening the door to an opposing viewpoint, and contrary thinking gets published, of course it is subject to attack but it also opens the dialogue concerning that subject.  That is a good thing. 

Some of us take our medicine with a healthy dose of skepticism. 

[Bean Bag]

What is it about American culture that creates this fear?

There's a lot more money here and it's way more accessible than in say a communist or socialist "paradise" where the wealth and power has been secured for the ruling class.  So there's still money available (though it's dwindled greatly under Obama).  And there's also liberty.  With liberty comes social mobility which can acquire things like money and power.

So... in America, a culture that traditionally embraces liberty and free will, there's a healthy distrust for things that don't.  Such as single payer, abortion and other choice-less endeavors.  Anything requiring a citizen to comply and give up their rights (often in the name of "granting" them a new right -- gotta love that one!) -- just isn't trusted.  Simple as that.  For the reasons I mentioned.  Take away people's liberty... you take away their ability to acquire wealth and power.

[Alex]

Sorry for the essay above, but why do Americans have such a distrust of these things? I'm genuinely curious. What is it about American culture that creates this fear?

I'm an American and I always ask myself that same question. I don't think I know of anyone in my corner of the rural upstate New York that acts like that. The paranoia, fear, distrust, etc. is just something I see on the news, and it seems to come a lot from the Southern and Western parts of the country.

[KDS]

Sorry for the essay above, but why do Americans have such a distrust of these things? I'm genuinely curious. What is it about American culture that creates this fear?

I'm an American and I always ask myself that same question. I don't think I know of anyone in my corner of the rural upstate New York that acts like that. The paranoia, fear, distrust, etc. is just something I see on the news, and it seems to come a lot from the Southern and Western parts of the country.

The human mind is a funny thing, and the internet can trick people in believing anything. 

Just look at how many people suddenly have "gluten allergies." 

[alf wiedersehen]

They're charging a couple dollars more for "gluten-free milk" at a grocery store near me.

[Mike's Beard]

[Alex]

Sorry for the essay above, but why do Americans have such a distrust of these things? I'm genuinely curious. What is it about American culture that creates this fear?

I'm an American and I always ask myself that same question. I don't think I know of anyone in my corner of the rural upstate New York that acts like that. The paranoia, fear, distrust, etc. is just something I see on the news, and it seems to come a lot from the Southern and Western parts of the country.

The human mind is a funny thing, and the internet can trick people in believing anything. 

Just look at how many people suddenly have "gluten allergies." 

People with Celiac's disease legitimately do need gluten free food.


Then there are the idiots who think gluten free automatically equals healthier and are willing to blow wads of cash on "gluten free" everything. If you have Celiac's, then yes gluten free is healthier than the alternative. But for everybody else whose bodies have no problem processing gluten, there's really no difference.

[Bean Bag]

Oh, we could do a whole thread on the latest health/diet fads.  Coffee's gonna kill ya.  Coffee's gonna make you live longer.  Bacon is evil -- bacon is not evil.  Eggs will kill you.  Eggs are good for you.  Fiber.  Vitamins.  antioxidants.  Blueberries. 

Kale.

 

[KDS]

Oh, we could do a whole thread on the latest health/diet fads.  Coffee's gonna kill ya.  Coffee's gonna make you live longer.  Bacon is evil -- bacon is not evil.  Eggs will kill you.  Eggs are good for you.  Fiber.  Vitamins.  antioxidants.  Blueberries. 

Kale.

 

The big one a couple years ago was high fructose corn syrup. 

Don't forget that ever evil aspartame. 

[Rocky Raccoon]

There was a shooting at a Planned Parenthood in Colorado.  11 people injured, 3 dead.  The shooter is being hailed as a hero by pro-life advocates.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

There was a shooting at a Planned Parenthood in Colorado.  11 people injured, 3 dead.  The shooter is being hailed as a hero by pro-life advocates.

Yes, and we can thank the right wing fanatics (some of whom recentlly faked/altered a bunch of videos) and Republicans posturing in Congress for votes. The fear mongers whipped up atleast one nut job into killing a bunch of innocent people. This kindof hate seems to  resemble what went on in Nazi Germany. Pro life my ass!

[filledeplage]

There was a shooting at a Planned Parenthood in Colorado.  11 people injured, 3 dead.  The shooter is being hailed as a hero by pro-life advocates.

Disgusting beyond belief.  And few pro-life people would ever advocate this type of "self-help" - If you are pro-life you are pro "every life" - it will likely come out that this was a likely a seriously mentally ill person taking the law into his own hands. 

This is not unlike the movie house shooter.  Or the Newtown school shooter.  Mentally ill and "passed through" a medical system that has put mental illness on the back burner because it is so "inconvenient" and can't be seen on an x-ray like a broken bone.  It will be interesting as this develops to learn whether this person was treated in a psychiatric facility or was on some medications that made him completely irrational or psychotic from some illegal drugs he took all by himself.  There will be a lot of media commentary and crime theories out there until an investigation is completed.

If this was "personally and actively encouraged" by any pro-life advocates, they should perhaps be charged as accessories. But, I highly doubt that this the case.  Sounds and looks so far, more like a lone-wolf.

[Emily]

<<sarcastic comment regarding the double standard in evaluating what drives terrorism with different agendas>>

[Mike's Beard]

To repeat what I said in another thread on here, nobody put a gun in this man's hands and forced him to kill a bunch of people. It's on him and him alone. No pro lifers should be feeling guilty because a wacko shot up an abortion clinic.

[alf wiedersehen]

To repeat what I said in another thread on here, nobody put a gun in this man's hands and forced him to kill a bunch of people. [...] No pro lifers should be feeling guilty because a wacko shot up an abortion clinic.

Should pro-lifers have felt bad if someone had put a gun in his hand and made him kill innocent people? How does that work?

The man is a product of fear mongering and right-wing fanaticism. This is what they have wrought.

[Emily]

To repeat what I said in another thread on here, nobody put a gun in this man's hands and forced him to kill a bunch of people. It's on him and him alone. No pro lifers should be feeling guilty because a wacko shot up an abortion clinic.

Just as no Syrians or Muslims should feel guilty, held liable, or be treated differently socially or legally because of what a few did, right?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

From a CNN article today, " Speculation immediately swirled that Planned Parenthood was targeted because one of the services it provides is abortion.

At least three Planned Parenthood buildings have been vandalized since September, when the organization was criticized in Washington and by some Republican presidential candidates after an anti-abortion group released videos alleging that it sold fetal organs and parts for profit. Planned Parenthood has disputed the veracity of the videos, contending that they are heavily edited and provide a distorted account.".

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/28/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/index.html

[SurfRiderHawaii]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rachelzarrell/some-pro-life-supporters-cheered-planned-parenthood-shooting#.qmkN3lMKe

"Pro Life" supporters cheering the shooter.

You know, we need PP all over  the world. In case you haven't noticed, the world's population is skyrocketing and expected to double to 15 billion by 2100. Natural resources are reaching a breaking point, water shortages all too common. Million are born into horrific poverty. STD rates are on the rise.

The apocalypse we are headed for is not the fictional one from the bible!

[Mike's Beard]

To repeat what I said in another thread on here, nobody put a gun in this man's hands and forced him to kill a bunch of people. It's on him and him alone. No pro lifers should be feeling guilty because a wacko shot up an abortion clinic.

Just as no Syrians or Muslims should feel guilty, held liable, or be treated differently socially or legally because of what a few did, right?

Depends on where the Syrian or Muslim stands on terrorist attacks. Or do you honestly think an ISIS supporter/sympathiser  should be given the same rights of freedom of speech as a pro-lifer?

[Mike's Beard]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rachelzarrell/some-pro-life-supporters-cheered-planned-parenthood-shooting#.qmkN3lMKe

"Pro Life" supporters cheering the shooter.

You know, we need PP all over  the world. In case you haven't noticed, the world's population is skyrocketing and expected to double to 15 billion by 2100. Natural resources are reaching a breaking point, water shortages all too common. Million are born into horrific poverty. STD rates are on the rise.

The apocalypse we are headed for is not the fictional one from the bible!

I agree totally with you that an increasing population is the biggest problem facing the word today. However, I do think that it is better to prevent the unwanted pregnancy from happening in the first place rather then killing the unborn child in the womb.