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Author Topic: Planned Parenthood exposed -- CAUTION  (Read 93003 times)
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Alex
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« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2015, 05:53:25 PM »

I'd like to control your right to buy a gun but it is your Constitutional right. Funny how you Republicans complain about the over reach of big govt and govt regulation but when it comes to your issues, like abortion,  you want to pass laws to control and stop it.
I don't think you understand what you're saying here. People have a right to live and defend themselves. Don't they?  It's your ilk that is using Government to take those away from people.

Yes, the woman's right to chose, Constitutional right as handed down by the Supreme Court. In case you didn't  realize, carrying around a big thing in your belly for 9 months is no trivial thing.  It  can endanger a woman's health, mess up her body permanently and affect her life in multiple ways you obviously have never seriously considered. Not to mention, deciding not to bring a child into a situation of poverty in some cases. Seems like not adding to the 50% of takers Mitt Romney and Fox NEWS love to complain about would make you happy.
Constitutional right handed down by the Supreme Court, does not trump a right to live as handed down by the Supreme Being. Killing out of convenience should have ended with the fall of Nazi Germany.

And the argument that people ought to be happy that we're not adding more people to our economic burdens, proves - in written English - that that line of thinking still exists. Sadly.

The so-called "Supreme Being" is an imaginary one, created by ancient humans thousands of years ago before the advent of modern science.

And I think the late great George Carlin had some choice things to say about abortion:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9kCyqBKewr4
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2015, 06:20:39 AM »

What evidence is there that science replaces religion?  And what's the imagination anyway?  Why is it capable of producing things that, don't exist?

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Douchepool
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« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2015, 06:25:43 AM »

Science is a religion.
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« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2015, 06:38:44 AM »

Well said TRBB.  If someone is using something to "replace" religion -- look out.  Religion, at the very least, is practiced and designed for the purpose of comprehending what we don't know, and guiding us accordingly.

Filling that gap with the usual suspects:  science, government or some evil fanatic religion -- or the most common and flat-out worst religion of them all -- "self" -- are all shallow and remarkably short-sighted paths.  

If one isn't enamored with religion, believe me, I get it.  But make yourself aware of it.  At the very least read what Jesus said -- he never hurt anyone.  That's a pretty damn good guarantee.  No church required.

Science is awesome, by the way.  But filled with just as many zealots and crooks as any other academy.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 06:40:42 AM by Bean Bag » Logged

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Douchepool
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« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2015, 06:47:15 AM »

Religion is just a tool.
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« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2015, 03:44:26 PM »

Don't be silly Loaf.  It's a very delicate age.  Those children deserve the best care possible.  Not an executioner.

Now, I'm not a doctor.  But I don't think they should be talking about how to best remove the child's heads.  And how to ship them with the eyes closed, so when the person opens it, they're not freaked out.  Call me old fashioned.

Am I getting through, by the way?  Is this thing on?

You still aren't making your position clear… I gather that you are against abortion, but do you think research on foetal/stem cell tissue shouldn't be allowed?

Or is it just the practicality of stem cell research that you don't agree with?

Or both?

I am genuinely interested.
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Loaf
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« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2015, 03:44:59 PM »

Science is a religion.

That's only said by people who don't work in science Smiley
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18thofMay
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« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2015, 04:53:31 PM »

My family and I live in Australia, we have a great Country as you all know. I absolutely loved travelling to the USA last year, I fell in love with New York and other parts of your wonderful Country. But I have to say, people like Bean Bag scare the living f*** outta me. I have watched you post about gun control, abortion, PP, Obamacare etc, some of you views are frightening.
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« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2015, 05:59:43 PM »

My family and I live in Australia, we have a great Country as you all know. I absolutely loved travelling to the USA last year, I fell in love with New York and other parts of your wonderful Country. But I have to say, people like Bean Bag scare the living f*** outta me. I have watched you post about gun control, abortion, PP, Obamacare etc, some of you views are frightening.

Sometimes I wonder if he trolling for shock value.
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« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2015, 06:06:30 PM »

Science is a religion.

That's only said by people who don't work in science Smiley

Most people trapped inside a cult are unaware of it, so no surprise.  Smiley
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2015, 06:40:00 PM »

Don't be silly Loaf.  It's a very delicate age.  Those children deserve the best care possible.  Not an executioner.

Now, I'm not a doctor.  But I don't think they should be talking about how to best remove the child's heads.  And how to ship them with the eyes closed, so when the person opens it, they're not freaked out.  Call me old fashioned.

Am I getting through, by the way?  Is this thing on?

You still aren't making your position clear… I gather that you are against abortion, but do you think research on foetal/stem cell tissue shouldn't be allowed?

Or is it just the practicality of stem cell research that you don't agree with?

Or both?

I am genuinely interested.

My position isn't clear?  Loaf!!  LOL  You're killing me -- no pun intended.  But, I've got one guy who's so frightened of me and my stark opinions, that he's hopped the first boat back to Happyland Central, where ever that is -- where I assume nothing bad happens or the people are so cooked, they have yet to form opinions about it.  And then I've got you -- and you're stumped and fascinated at, what I must assume to you is my "aboriginal mindset?"  Just a hunch.  So... now I'm actually interested!  You've kicked it up a notch 'round here.  Thank you!

OK.  So... you've gathered I'm against abortion.  Good, that's good.  But you're also asking me if I'm against performing research on aborted bodies.  Well.  I don't mean to be gross here, Loaf -- but I have ethics about killing people for research.  I mean, don't you?  Don't answer that.  How about this -- we let them use your tissue?  Are you against having your tissue being used for research?  Now, understand what it'll take to get it Loaf -- and the incentive I've created.  Cash.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 06:45:07 PM by Bean Bag » Logged

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Douchepool
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« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2015, 07:41:41 PM »

Science is a religion.

That's only said by people who don't work in science Smiley

Most people trapped inside a cult are unaware of it, so no surprise.  Smiley

Pray tell, what cult am I trapped within? Apparently I've not been made aware of this.
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« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2015, 07:46:39 PM »

Science is a religion.

That's only said by people who don't work in science Smiley

Most people trapped inside a cult are unaware of it, so no surprise.  Smiley

Pray tell, what cult am I trapped within? Apparently I've not been made aware of this.

I was agreeing with you TRBB.
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Douchepool
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« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2015, 07:47:17 PM »

Ohhhhhh, my bad. Didn't know.
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alf wiedersehen
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« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2015, 08:00:49 PM »

This is a seriously weird area of the internet.
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Douchepool
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« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2015, 08:04:41 PM »

You've never been on /b/, have you?
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alf wiedersehen
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« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2015, 08:10:33 PM »

See, that's the thing - I have.
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Douchepool
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« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2015, 08:17:07 PM »

So clearly we need to post tits and ass to take the edge off here. LOL
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« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2015, 06:28:46 AM »

My family and I live in Australia, we have a great Country as you all know. I absolutely loved travelling to the USA last year, I fell in love with New York and other parts of your wonderful Country. But I have to say, people like Bean Bag scare the living f*** outta me. I have watched you post about gun control, abortion, PP, Obamacare etc, some of you views are frightening.

Sometimes I wonder if he trolling for shock value.

Alex -- It's good to open and discuss issues that have been deemed politically incorrect, "settled" and silenced.  Especially when they're not settled.  If they were truly settled there wouldn't be the spicy conversation.  Our culture, I believe, is getting comfortable "bottling up" the bad, suppressing their thoughts and emotions, and that's scary.

For example... most people have opinions on abortion.  And the outbreak of Planned Parenthood videos are seriously disgusting.  When that disgust is voiced, there's push back, panic and all sorts of fireworks.  So apparently it wasn't settled.  The Supreme Court's arrogant decision on this and on things like Gay Marriage are attempts to shut it down and bottle it up.  Not healthy.  And very much not the idea behind this Country's free principles.

I don't expect to solve these issues or "convert" anybody -- whatever the hell that means.  Not the point.  I don't even necessarily care what the opinions are -- we all have them.

The point is to simply get people to share them.  It would be nice if we could learn to do it without insulting each other.  But I'm not arrogant enough to assume everyone can do that.  So, I'm ok with being the punching bag for those who are new or find this challenging.  It's part of the process, and it really doesn't hurt anyway.

Understand -- the fact that we even dare to talk about something like abortion, global warming, gun control, liberals, race -- much less in a manner outside of the politically correct and approved opinions -- is a big deal.  And you know it's a big deal when people start running away, proclaiming they're frightened.  They set the tone.
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« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2015, 12:22:29 PM »

Don't be silly Loaf.  It's a very delicate age.  Those children deserve the best care possible.  Not an executioner.

Now, I'm not a doctor.  But I don't think they should be talking about how to best remove the child's heads.  And how to ship them with the eyes closed, so when the person opens it, they're not freaked out.  Call me old fashioned.

Am I getting through, by the way?  Is this thing on?

You still aren't making your position clear… I gather that you are against abortion, but do you think research on foetal/stem cell tissue shouldn't be allowed?

Or is it just the practicality of stem cell research that you don't agree with?

Or both?

I am genuinely interested.

My position isn't clear?  Loaf!!  LOL  You're killing me -- no pun intended.  But, I've got one guy who's so frightened of me and my stark opinions, that he's hopped the first boat back to Happyland Central, where ever that is -- where I assume nothing bad happens or the people are so cooked, they have yet to form opinions about it.  And then I've got you -- and you're stumped and fascinated at, what I must assume to you is my "aboriginal mindset?"  Just a hunch.  So... now I'm actually interested!  You've kicked it up a notch 'round here.  Thank you!

OK.  So... you've gathered I'm against abortion.  Good, that's good.  But you're also asking me if I'm against performing research on aborted bodies.  Well.  I don't mean to be gross here, Loaf -- but I have ethics about killing people for research.  I mean, don't you?  Don't answer that.  How about this -- we let them use your tissue?  Are you against having your tissue being used for research?  Now, understand what it'll take to get it Loaf -- and the incentive I've created.  Cash.

I'm not sure why you keep talking around in circles, you still haven't answered my questions.

You create a straw-man argument about being against killing people for research, but that isn't what's happening here. People aren't being killed for research, tissue from foetuses already aborted are being used for research. Despite what your paranoia might suggest, there isn't a killing-to-order going on here.

Abortion is legal, and it is legal under some circumstances to use that tissue for scientific research.

So, how about answering my questions from my previous post, so we can have a reasoned debate? You want people to share and discuss their opinions, but you seem to be reluctant to answer questions about your own opinions.

To answer your question, I am happy for my organs to be donated for others to use after I die, and any remaining tissue can be used for scientific research. I like the idea of helping after I am gone.
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Loaf
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« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2015, 12:23:25 PM »

Science is a religion.

That's only said by people who don't work in science Smiley

Most people trapped inside a cult are unaware of it, so no surprise.  Smiley

"lol".

I don't understand why so many Americans are afraid of science. Care to share?
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« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2015, 12:51:24 PM »

Science is a religion.

That's only said by people who don't work in science Smiley

Most people trapped inside a cult are unaware of it, so no surprise.  Smiley

"lol".

I don't understand why so many Americans are afraid of science. Care to share?

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you explain it to me, I'll try to answer.
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« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2015, 01:02:44 PM »

Science is a religion.

That's only said by people who don't work in science Smiley

Most people trapped inside a cult are unaware of it, so no surprise.  Smiley

"lol".

I don't understand why so many Americans are afraid of science. Care to share?

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you explain it to me, I'll try to answer.

I don't know why you stated that scientists are trapped inside a cult. Using that language makes it seem that you don't understand scientific research or scientific principles beyond a tabloid level.

And if your understanding of science is at a tabloid level, then you'll likely only have registered the scientific headlines that cover breakthroughs (such as "Miracle Cure for Cancer on the Horizon") or the scare stories.

And based on your siding with TRBB, i'd guess that the scare stories have registered strongest with you, so I asked what it is that you might be scared of?

I'm also assuming that you are (culturally) American, but you didn't correct me on that.
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« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2015, 02:20:11 PM »

Science is a religion.

That's only said by people who don't work in science Smiley

Most people trapped inside a cult are unaware of it, so no surprise.  Smiley

"lol".

I don't understand why so many Americans are afraid of science. Care to share?

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you explain it to me, I'll try to answer.

I don't know why you stated that scientists are trapped inside a cult. Using that language makes it seem that you don't understand scientific research or scientific principles beyond a tabloid level.

And if your understanding of science is at a tabloid level, then you'll likely only have registered the scientific headlines that cover breakthroughs (such as "Miracle Cure for Cancer on the Horizon") or the scare stories.

And based on your siding with TRBB, i'd guess that the scare stories have registered strongest with you, so I asked what it is that you might be scared of?

I'm also assuming that you are (culturally) American, but you didn't correct me on that.

If we define science as observation and measurement, and if we define faith as believing what someone else has told us, then what I would like for you to see is that most of what people claim they believe on the basis of science they in fact believe on the basis of faith.  I'll make the point this way, in regards to topics such as global warming, the age of the universe, does God exist, etc, what percentage do you believe based on observation and measurement and what percentage do you believe based on what someone else has told you?  You see, I don't understand why so many people, European, American, Candian, Chinese, Russian, are afraid to acknowledge that most of what they believe in regards to such issues is based on what someone else has told them, on faith, and not on observation and measurement, science. 

Now perhaps you are a scienctist and you have dated fossils and rocks and measured ground temperatures and what not.  If that is the case I would ask you a slightly different set of questions, this time in regards to your pre-suppositions.  To do this I would need to know a bit more about your philosophical views, your epistemology, in particular, and your ontology.  Are you a realist or an idealist?  Are you naturalist?  Your appeal to science leads me to believe you are at least a moderate realist, but I am willing to bet there are neo-platonic idealist presuppositions hidden throughout your view of the world.  I won't try to ferret them out, but if I spy one I will let you know.  Regardless, once your presuppositions are considered it will become clear that you, too, believe far more based on what you have been told (in regards to these issues) than on observation and measurement.

With that said, I am still confounded in regards to your statement about people being afraid of science.  I've met people who are set in their ways and won't consider reasoned argument, but I've found just as many on the science side of the fence as I have on the "afraid of science" side of the fence.  No matter which side of the fence most people are on they consider those on the other side to be unreasonable, illogical, etc...all the while blind to their own presuppositions, biases, poorly reasoned arguments, etc.  Each side resorts to logical fallacies, mockery, and shouting down the other side rather than reasoned discussion.  I won't be surpised if this thread goes in the same direction.

EoL
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« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2015, 04:02:40 PM »

I'll try to address your points, and try to keep this useful, but your definitions of science and faith (whether or not in terms of religions and cults) are a little lacking and I do not agree with them.

Scientific arguments are evidence-based, peer-reviewed and open-access. See for example the case of (ex-Doctor) Andrew Wakefield and his (now discredited) claim that the MMR vaccine caused autism. His 'evidence' was available for scrutiny and was found to be unfounded. Faith is a judgement based on a lack of objective evidence. This is different to your claim that faith is anything not personally validated.

As in the following example: I haven't personally created any polio vaccines, but does that mean that (a) the polio vaccine works on FAITH, or (b) because I can observe that the polio vaccine works (no one around me has polio), it is SCIENCE? It is possible for something to be scientific if others have done the scientific research, even if i haven't personally done it.

Let's sort out a definition of science and faith first, then we can tackle the other stuff Smiley
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