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Author Topic: Three Smile Counterfactuals  (Read 4780 times)
harrisonjon
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« on: July 26, 2015, 01:50:02 PM »

1) Early 67: Brian contacts a top producer to help him finish Smile. Would he still fail to finish it?

2) Summer 67: Smile is finished and released but it bombs commercially, achieving eventually the kind of cult status that attaches today to Sunflower or Love You (or Astral Weeks or a Nick Drake album). Would that be a better or worse outcome that what actually occurred (i.e. belated releases of BWPS in 2004 and TSS in 2011)?

3) Summer 67: Smile is ditched but Wonderful and Surf's Up are finished and released as singles to critical acclaim. Many say they are better than any of the tracks on Pepper. However neither single cracks the Top 10. Is this a better outcome than what really happened with those tracks?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 01:56:47 PM by harrisonjon » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2015, 02:08:47 PM »

1) Early 67: Brian contacts a top producer to help him finish Smile. Would he still fail to finish it?

2) Summer 67: Smile is finished and released but it bombs commercially, achieving eventually the kind of cult status that attaches today to Sunflower or Love You. Would that be a better or worse outcome that what actually occurred (i.e. belated releases of BWPS in 2004 and TSS in 2011)?

3) Summer 67: Smile is ditched but Wonderful and Surf's Up are finished and released to critical acclaim. Many say they are better than any of the tracks on Pepper. However neither single cracks the Top 10. Is this a better outcome than what really happened with those tracks?

1 - I can't see this happening in any way, shape or form. Hypothetically, who would step up? No one could ever tap into the personal side of where that music came from, and a lot of the top producers in LA at least were busy trying to figure out what Brian was doing to create those amazing records and how he was doing it. It was too unique to be handed off to another person. Brian during the first half of 1967 was considered among the elite of rock producers, at least among his peers in the industry since the general public still wasn't sure exactly what the role of a producer was except knowing they basically captained the ship. Just listen to any interviews from Brian's peers from that exact time, musicians and producers, and they couldn't grasp how he was doing all that he was doing. Van Dyke Parks in one source said one of the factors in getting his Warners solo deal was wanting to suss out what Brian was up to. Look that one up, I probably wouldn't expect it to appear as a Tweet anytime soon.  Grin

2 - Looking back from an outsiders perspective, a civilian perspective if you will, Smile ended up with as positive and as beneficial a closing chapter as we might expect. But it did, I believe, truly shatter Brian with what went down in 66-67 and it's something I believe he still carries with him today. It was good for us and cathartic that it did get finished and all that came out was released to wide acclaim, but you cannot entirely fill that original void and hurt that was present for decades. If it had come out in summer '67, I think it would have been compromised to the point the original magic we hear on the 66 sessions would have been lost to the scenery in which it would have appeared. Summer 67 was not January 67, even though the fires of anticipation were still being stoked and burning after Brian showed up on CBS in April 67 singing Surfs Up.

3 - Surfs Up had the momentum. Back to Inside Pop, after Janis Ian sang Society's Child and Bernstein nearly blew a gasket praising it on the broadcast, DJ's started to play it and it became somewhat of a major hit, at least it put Janis Ian on the commercial map with a most unlikely song.

So just like the Monkees who were as hot as ever in 67 and MTV later, the marketing power of multimedia and connecting TV and video to music which translated into demand and therefore sales success was firmly in place. Inside Pop basically made Janis Ian a hit, because the single was absolutely dead and floating belly-up had it not been for the TV appearance.

Brian had one of the prime spots, solo Surfs Up as the narration about the future of pop music was heard over top the music...it was huge. Had there been a Surfs Up single ready to go, as was the case with Janis Ian, I think it would indeed have had a similar experience as Janis Ian's record on the popular charts and sales. Society's Child on the surface is non-commercial, it's not catchy and it's not a standard pop song with a beat you can dance to. But add the TV special, Bernstein's praise, the buzz created by all 0f that, and she got a hit record as a teenager with a very unorthodox sounding record.

And there was Surfs Up waiting to be picked like the biggest and most ripe apple on the tree. They could have put out Brian's solo piano version and I think the buzz would have driven it to the charts and airplay. But...consider where would that leave the touring band. Right? Yet another Smile conundrum, one of dozens.
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GhostyTMRS
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2015, 03:32:30 PM »


3 - Surfs Up had the momentum. Back to Inside Pop, after Janis Ian sang Society's Child and Bernstein nearly blew a gasket praising it on the broadcast, DJ's started to play it and it became somewhat of a major hit, at least it put Janis Ian on the commercial map with a most unlikely song.


I agree. In fact, if Brian had just rush-released a version of "Surf's Up" with just him on the piano (as seen on the special) I think it would've been a smash. When you think about it, releasing a stark version of "Surf's Up" after a huge production like "Good Vibrations" would've been seen as a revolutionary move and the perfect counterpoint to the production excess that was going on in popular music at the time. The marketing ploy could've been "The Beach Boys accomplish the same thing as 'Good Vibrations' with just a piano and a lone voice".

Of course, that would never have happened because that wasn't where Brian's head was at production-wise at the time, but just imagine....  
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2015, 03:56:03 PM »


3 - Surfs Up had the momentum. Back to Inside Pop, after Janis Ian sang Society's Child and Bernstein nearly blew a gasket praising it on the broadcast, DJ's started to play it and it became somewhat of a major hit, at least it put Janis Ian on the commercial map with a most unlikely song.


I agree. In fact, if Brian had just rush-released a version of "Surf's Up" with just him on the piano (as seen on the special) I think it would've been a smash. When you think about it, releasing a stark version of "Surf's Up" after a huge production like "Good Vibrations" would've been seen as a revolutionary move and the perfect counterpoint to the production excess that was going on in popular music at the time. The marketing ploy could've been "The Beach Boys accomplish the same thing as 'Good Vibrations' with just a piano and a lone voice".

Of course, that would never have happened because that wasn't where Brian's head was at production-wise at the time, but just imagine....  

Ive always felt the exact same way. Surf's Up should have been the single, no contest. Not the uncommercial, step-down-from-GV Heroes, not Veggies, but Surf's Up. Not only was it on TV, but the title alone would have been perfect. Imagine THAT being premiered on the radio. The DJ going "Oh, and here's another fun-n-the-sun single from our favorite surfers--the Beach Boys! This one's called, what else, Surf's Up!" and then when the song actually plays, it shatters everyone's expectations. It would have been perfect in so many ways. It would have been the perfect introduction to SMiLE and what that album was all about. Not only would the sparse production have been a good counterpoint to GV, so would the somber tone. Also, from contemporary interviews, it sounds like Brian wanted to keep as much of SMiLE a surprise as possible. A piano-only single version of Surf's Up would have accomplished that well, with the full-production version being a special surprise for those who sprung for the album. Everyone who's listened to his solo Wild Honey version of SU has been blown away by it. I think record buyers then would have been too. And he already had Holidays and Look sitting around, seemingly scrapped from the album, as the perfect throwaway b-sides. Boom.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2015, 04:02:22 PM »

1) Early 67: Brian contacts a top producer to help him finish Smile. Would he still fail to finish it?

2) Summer 67: Smile is finished and released but it bombs commercially, achieving eventually the kind of cult status that attaches today to Sunflower or Love You (or Astral Weeks or a Nick Drake album). Would that be a better or worse outcome that what actually occurred (i.e. belated releases of BWPS in 2004 and TSS in 2011)?

3) Summer 67: Smile is ditched but Wonderful and Surf's Up are finished and released as singles to critical acclaim. Many say they are better than any of the tracks on Pepper. However neither single cracks the Top 10. Is this a better outcome than what really happened with those tracks?

Ive answered 3. Those first two scenarios are non-starters. Brian never would have done #1. Would have been just as defeating to him as scrapping it. Plus, the only producers who I can see "getting" SMiLE, and who made comparably progressive albums around the same time are Joseph Byrd and Frank Zappa. Byrd was unknown and not a fan of Brian's wall of sound approach so they never would have worked together. Zappa was more underground, doing his own thing, and thought the hippie movement was stupid. His condemnation of that, We're Only In It For the Money, is in many ways what SMiLE would have been. It's a series of interconnected fragments and comedy skits strung together that add up to a greater whole. But while the two may have independently came up with that concept, Brian did it earlier and the two wouldnt have worked together either. Zappa was doing his own thing and wouldnt give up his creativity to make someone else's album. As for number 2...SMiLE wouldnt have flopped. Im sick of seeing this argument/scenario. End of story.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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harrisonjon
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2015, 05:08:18 PM »

I think it would be a huge leap for the public to embrace Smile as a whole. The Beatles could always sweeten the pill with a pop sheen, but Smile is hardcore art music not really belonging to the pop or rock market at all. The fact it was being released by a band whose brand had previously been surf and cars would make it seem bizarre, far more than Pet Sounds or GV. It would be a hard sell, even with Derek Taylor, Macca and Loog-Oldham being supportive.
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clack
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2015, 05:57:32 PM »

1) George Martin, who was classically trained, might have been able to organize all the SMiLE fragments into a coherent song suite.

2) A summer '67 release would have garnered it critical praise and some temporary hipster credibility

3) Surf's Up would have received some serious top 40 airplay, though I don't see it cracking the top 10.

SMiLE shone with more luster, however, as a legendary lost masterpiece than it as a cultish pop record that would have sounded a bit out of time and place in an environment of Hendrix, Cream, the Doors, and Jefferson Airplane.
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Ron
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2015, 09:46:55 PM »

1) Early 67: Brian contacts a top producer to help him finish Smile. Would he still fail to finish it?

2) Summer 67: Smile is finished and released but it bombs commercially, achieving eventually the kind of cult status that attaches today to Sunflower or Love You (or Astral Weeks or a Nick Drake album). Would that be a better or worse outcome that what actually occurred (i.e. belated releases of BWPS in 2004 and TSS in 2011)?

3) Summer 67: Smile is ditched but Wonderful and Surf's Up are finished and released as singles to critical acclaim. Many say they are better than any of the tracks on Pepper. However neither single cracks the Top 10. Is this a better outcome than what really happened with those tracks?

1. If he would have been hands off, a decent producer could have scraped together something like Spector did with Let it Be.  Who knows if it would have sold.

2.  Best outcome for the album is what actually happened, it took 40 years for the story to fully unfold, can't buy or promote that.  Unfortunately only a small percentage of people who like pop music ever got the full effect of what exactly happened there (Brian overcoming his demons, basically represented by that aborted album)

3. Yeah, I think it's a shame they weren't released... they may have buoyed the boys along awhile longer in the wake of Good Vibrations and really turned some people onto what they were doing... ultimately though it would have just prolonged the inevitable, Brian's 'breakdown' was inevitable at that point...
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Ron
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2015, 09:52:25 PM »

About 'stripped down Surf's Up'... do we have any idea if the second half of the song was going to have background vocals?

On the released version years later, they have that incredible, bone chilling moment where the Beach boys break in on the 'children's song' which is incredible effective, but it's only effective because of the stark nature of the piano demo before it. 

I've always thought of it as this:  You're hearing Brian's demo, which is what he was able to illustrate to people when he played them the song... and then when the vocals bust in, you hear what he was hearing in his head.  On the piano demo, he even sings the high harmony of the 'children's song' part, several years earlier!  It's like in his head he could hear the boys singing the other parts.

Stunning really.  So would a '67 version have sounded similar, or would he have produced instruments like the incredible first half of the song, and would he have added background vocals throughout?
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2015, 10:41:18 PM »

I think it would be a huge leap for the public to embrace Smile as a whole. The Beatles could always sweeten the pill with a pop sheen, but Smile is hardcore art music not really belonging to the pop or rock market at all. The fact it was being released by a band whose brand had previously been surf and cars would make it seem bizarre, far more than Pet Sounds or GV. It would be a hard sell, even with Derek Taylor, Macca and Loog-Oldham being supportive.

You're entitled to this opinion but I personally dont buy it. Ive refuted it in detail before and dont want to derail your thread saying it again.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2015, 10:57:29 PM »

About 'stripped down Surf's Up'... do we have any idea if the second half of the song was going to have background vocals?

On the released version years later, they have that incredible, bone chilling moment where the Beach boys break in on the 'children's song' which is incredible effective, but it's only effective because of the stark nature of the piano demo before it. 

I've always thought of it as this:  You're hearing Brian's demo, which is what he was able to illustrate to people when he played them the song... and then when the vocals bust in, you hear what he was hearing in his head.  On the piano demo, he even sings the high harmony of the 'children's song' part, several years earlier!  It's like in his head he could hear the boys singing the other parts.

Stunning really.  So would a '67 version have sounded similar, or would he have produced instruments like the incredible first half of the song, and would he have added background vocals throughout?

There would have been instruments. According to Brian circa 2003, there were to be some strings at the very least. It's my hunch that the other exercises Brian has the horn players go thru in Talking Horns represent working ideas he had in mind for SU part 2. That droning/moaning section sounds pretty good over the second half of the song, I think. It adds a feeling of mounting dread and despair. And the wailing section sounds great over the fade out. I have no proof this was Brian's intent except that the laughing section on Talking Horns was used on the first half of the backing track.

Im not sure about the background vocals throughout the track. I dont think the ones we hear in the '71 version are vintage '66~'67 but again this is just my interpretation.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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harrisonjon
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2015, 06:37:08 AM »

Can you post a link to a thread with your previous refutation? I would be interested to read it.
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2015, 08:58:30 AM »

1 - yes there is one producer who could have pulled all the fragments, skits, Smile party tapes together and made a brilliant album out of it all - Zappa.  He showed he could do just that with We're Only In It For the Money.  Plus David Anderle had worked with Zappa on his first two albums with Verve.  So it is possible David could have gotten the two together, however I'm pretty sure Zappa would have intimidated the hell out of Brian.  More likely Brian decides he can't deal with Smile anymore and David asks if he could get an outside producer to take a crack at putting the album together from what was recorded.  It would have been a mindblowing record.
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2015, 09:22:44 AM »

Imagine...

 if Paul McCartney came to LA to catch up with Brian, and Brian confessed his fears to Paul that he'd be unable to finish the album.

Paul takes the tapes back to London with him. A couple of weeks later, he arranges for Brian and the Boys to come and add their vocals to the tracks that The Beatles & George Martin assembled/edited/sweetened.

The final album Atlantic Smile was out to great acclaim and sold a million units in January ('68).
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2015, 10:42:47 AM »

The funny part of these hypothetical scenarios is how far do we run the possibilities through the ringer, and how many asterisks do we apply or ignore?  Smiley

The suggestion of having Zappa involved - Intriguing, yes. Is there or was there any sliver of possibility that this could have happened? I'd say no, for one reason that shadows the whole Smile saga from fall 1966 up to summer 1967.

The Beach Boys, whole or parts, were even wary of the scene when they "came home" from being on the road to find Vosse, Anderle, Parks, Hutton, and any number of what I've seen referred to as "outsiders" suddenly on the scene, in Brian's inner circle and privy to studio sessions and writing sessions that even they were not a part of, having been on the road or simply having not been there for the creation of this music in general.

Vosse, Anderle - good people. Anderle was full of ideas for the *business* and structure of Brother Records, Vosse was to be heading up the film department of Brother since he had a background in TV production and freelance journalism and was acting as Brian's aide de camp, VDP was VDP, etc. And there were reports that these good, creative people who were there to make things happen were looked on with doubt and wariness by some of the Beach Boys and family, with the thought that outsiders had penetrated the inner family circle?

And with that in mind...Frank Zappa would come in as of 1967 and have carte blanche on creating the next Beach Boys album? Can you imagine Zappa getting introduced to Murry Wilson as the guy who would be working on the Beach Boys' album and having to sign papers for Sea Of Tunes payments and whatnot?

It would never happen in that circumstance and in that setting. If there were doubts about the people setting up Brother Records in 1967, imagine Zappa walking in and getting full access to the tapes to do with what he pleased to craft an album. A Beach Boys album, no less.
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« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2015, 04:50:21 PM »


Im not sure about the background vocals throughout the track. I dont think the ones we hear in the '71 version are vintage '66~'67 but again this is just my interpretation.

As i've always understood it, and I don't know where I heard it, the 'children's song' part that the others are singing was recorded in '71 at Brian's direction, I.e. he tought them the lyrics and the harmonies to that part that had never been recorded in '67. 

not sure though if they were meant to be recorded in '67, guess there's no way to know... but it is interesting that at the end of the piano demo in '67, Brian goes up into false and sings the melody that's still present on the '71 version, and all the other voices blend into it perfectly. 
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« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2015, 05:26:27 PM »


Im not sure about the background vocals throughout the track. I dont think the ones we hear in the '71 version are vintage '66~'67 but again this is just my interpretation.

As i've always understood it, and I don't know where I heard it, the 'children's song' part that the others are singing was recorded in '71 at Brian's direction, I.e. he tought them the lyrics and the harmonies to that part that had never been recorded in '67. 

not sure though if they were meant to be recorded in '67, guess there's no way to know... but it is interesting that at the end of the piano demo in '67, Brian goes up into false and sings the melody that's still present on the '71 version, and all the other voices blend into it perfectly. 

You understand it correctly. I personally think that if those main "the song is love and the children know the way" lyrics had existed before, he would have sung them himself on TV, the master take and in Autumn 1967 instead of those "aahs" which are just backing vocals in comparison to that. And I dont think the CIFOTM would be reused in another song. People often say "SMiLE reuses a lot of music cues between songs" but I dont think that was actually Brian's intent for the finished album. Bicycle Rider is in Heroes because Brian wanted Heroes for the single and needed some kind of chorus to make it commercial. But I dont think he would have had two songs be so similar on the same album, and I think that holds true with Surf and Child.

Ultimately, you're right that we will never know for sure. This is all just my speculation.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
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« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2015, 08:11:27 PM »

Can you imagine Zappa getting introduced to Murry Wilson as the guy who would be working on the Beach Boys' album...

That would have been an outstanding moment.
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« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2015, 09:28:58 PM »


Im not sure about the background vocals throughout the track. I dont think the ones we hear in the '71 version are vintage '66~'67 but again this is just my interpretation.

As i've always understood it, and I don't know where I heard it, the 'children's song' part that the others are singing was recorded in '71 at Brian's direction, I.e. he tought them the lyrics and the harmonies to that part that had never been recorded in '67. 

not sure though if they were meant to be recorded in '67, guess there's no way to know... but it is interesting that at the end of the piano demo in '67, Brian goes up into false and sings the melody that's still present on the '71 version, and all the other voices blend into it perfectly. 

You understand it correctly. I personally think that if those main "the song is love and the children know the way" lyrics had existed before, he would have sung them himself on TV, the master take and in Autumn 1967 instead of those "aahs" which are just backing vocals in comparison to that. And I dont think the CIFOTM would be reused in another song. People often say "SMiLE reuses a lot of music cues between songs" but I dont think that was actually Brian's intent for the finished album. Bicycle Rider is in Heroes because Brian wanted Heroes for the single and needed some kind of chorus to make it commercial. But I dont think he would have had two songs be so similar on the same album, and I think that holds true with Surf and Child.

Ultimately, you're right that we will never know for sure. This is all just my speculation.

That sounds legitimate, kind of how the Good Vibrations melody shows up on Smile '04 in "child is the father of the man"... but in reality I think he had just used that melody in Good Vibrations after he abandoned 'look', like you said I'm not sure he ever would have had the same bit in two songs. 

Interesting though how he was literally able to take bits and put them here... or here.... or here if he wanted.  That's an interesting way of writing, not sure if others really do that that way. 
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« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2015, 10:36:52 PM »

Imagine...

 if Paul McCartney came to LA to catch up with Brian, and Brian confessed his fears to Paul that he'd be unable to finish the album.

Paul takes the tapes back to London with him. A couple of weeks later, he arranges for Brian and the Boys to come and add their vocals to the tracks that The Beatles & George Martin assembled/edited/sweetened.

The final album Atlantic Smile was out to great acclaim and sold a million units in January ('68).

Never in a million years would this have happened, and if it did not only would it have been an even bigger embarrassment to Brian than the album not coming out at all, not only would SMiLE have come out too late to sell a million units or save the band's reputation...but the album would have been a watered down Sgt Pepper-lite mess devoid of all personality and creativity. I cannot imagine a worse scenario.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2015, 02:54:04 AM »

Imagine...

 if Paul McCartney came to LA to catch up with Brian, and Brian confessed his fears to Paul that he'd be unable to finish the album.

Paul takes the tapes back to London with him. A couple of weeks later, he arranges for Brian and the Boys to come and add their vocals to the tracks that The Beatles & George Martin assembled/edited/sweetened.

The final album Atlantic Smile was out to great acclaim and sold a million units in January ('68).

Never in a million years would this have happened, and if it did not only would it have been an even bigger embarrassment to Brian than the album not coming out at all, not only would SMiLE have come out too late to sell a million units or save the band's reputation...but the album would have been a watered down Sgt Pepper-lite mess devoid of all personality and creativity. I cannot imagine a worse scenario.

But it did happen!!!!11
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2015, 09:03:58 AM »

Can you imagine Zappa getting introduced to Murry Wilson as the guy who would be working on the Beach Boys' album...

That would have been an outstanding moment.

Epic. And Brian could have had Michael Vosse record the moment on his reel-to-reel.  Grin
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2015, 12:28:07 PM »

Can you imagine Zappa getting introduced to Murry Wilson as the guy who would be working on the Beach Boys' album...

That would have been an outstanding moment.

Epic. And Brian could have had Michael Vosse record the moment on his reel-to-reel.  Grin

Well you have to accept the conditions of the original post :  Brian contacts a top producer to help him finish Smile.  Would he have finished it?

We know that it is not a likely scenario that Brian would ever have contacted an outside producer to help him, or that the Beach Boys would allow it, but IF . . . who could have actually put all the pieces together, even the unfinished ones, into a coherent and avant-garde provocative whole?  Zappa.  Zappa could have finished it - now in this hypothetical scenario we have to presume that Zappa would even want to get involved in something like this, which is itself unlikely.  But Zappa did produce outside artists (and the two meanings of "outside" apply here) and I have to think that if he heard all the mindblowing Smile stuff that had been done, he would get excited about the project.  And Anderle is the connection.
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clack
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« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2015, 12:59:32 PM »

Frank Zappa was not a record  producer as of January 1967. Freak Out (6/66) was produced by Tom Wilson, Absolutely Free (4/67) by Wilson and Zappa.

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ontor pertawst
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« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2015, 01:04:45 PM »

Pffft. He produced plenty of singles before that, but yes - the Cucamonga years are hardly enough to deal with Smile. I Was a Teenage Maltshop meets Teenage Symphony to God!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 01:07:15 PM by ontor pertawst » Logged
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