NY Observer: 'Beyond the Life of Brian: The Myth of the ‘Lesser’ Beach Boys'

[GhostyTMRS]

One Mike article, 5 pages and counting.  I can't wait to see how many pages the future "Mike's Book is Out" thread in 2016 will generate.

lol It's going to be incredible. Perhaps the longest thread ever. That damn book is going to fly off the shelves like there's no tomorrow. 

[GhostyTMRS]

I find it a little funny how upset everyone got over Mike's "autotune" comment.

"I haven't heard the song yet, I am sure with Al's voice and hopefully no autotune, the song will be great."

Isn't this precisely what fans on this board were saying in anticipation of listening to Brian's album? If anything, Mike's comment could be viewed as a nod to this board.

I think Mike was making a dig at Joe Thomas for the horrific 'tuna job he did on TWGMTR and especially the C50 Live cd.

There was a recent radio interview with Brian (up on i-Tunes) where he raves about using pitch-correction software and wishes he had it back in the 60's. My guess is that it's not actually auto-tune.

[mikeddonn]

I'm not at all sure how the nuts and bolts work when it comes to BRI. But in order to approve/disapprove a soundtrack directly related to The Beach Boys wouldn't Mike Love have to watch the film in question? So if Pohlad and the producers wanted to release a soundtrack (which Polhad has expressed numerous times he has wanted) wouldn't Mike be given ample opportunities to see the film or be sent a copy if such a viewing opportunity didn't arise?

Where the dickens do you get this ludicrous notion that Mike - or anyone,in fact - can approve/veto the soundtrack ? It's simple - you pay the appropriate licensing fee for the songs you want to use, and you can use them. I guess if said songs were used in an unsavoury context, or ridiculed, you might have a case for withdrawing the license. Mike has no say in how the movie turns out, any more than Alan, Bruce, Carl's estate, unless they feel they've been defamed. Brian, being the subject, and authorising the movie, is of course a different case entirely.

I was referring to an actual physical release of the soundtrack. According to Howie Edelson:

There IS a movie soundtrack. From everything I know about its (non)release, it needs to be signed off on by ALL the partners of BRI.
As of April 23rd, 2015, that has not happened.

The work by Atticus Rose is brilliant and important and breathtaking. High art from high art. Why would anybody choose not to sign off on that?

People need to know that the rounding of third began long ago.
How one finishes is how history remembers them.

There's a right side and a wrong side to history.
(I'm both amazed -- and sadly used to -- the people choosing the wrong side.)

And it would seem obvious to me that Mike would want to see the film before signing off on such a soundtrack release (in case he felt the movie cast an unsavory light on the Beach Boys or any other reason)...thus I would be hard pressed to believe that Pohlad, the producers didn't give Mike ample opportunities to view this film.

What Howie said - and l defer to his far superior knowledge - was true three months ago: that Pohlad has stated much more recently a soundtrack will be out soon after the movie's release indicates to me that all hurdles have been cleared. As ever, l stand to be corrected, especially if it gets the music out.

I would pipe up here to say that I think you're somewhat mistaken. Howie posted three months ago. The interview with Bill Pohlad that you cite is here (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/06/interview-director-bill-pohlad/) and was published June 2, not "much more recently." Indeed, it's from nearly two months ago.

These were his words: "We’re working on it now. Unfortunately, these things get complicated when you’ve got a lot of bits from different songs and different eras, but we’re working through it, and it should be out soon after the film."

While he seems to promise a soundtrack, that's far from a ringing declaration. Given that the movie has been released in the U.S. and the U.K., and given that it is now, indeed, "soon after" the film's release, I think it's fair to note that no soundtrack has been announced or scheduled, or even shown up as an Amazon Germany listing.

Thus, it's not a far hop to say it's not coming out, and likewise that it's most likely Mike (the most jealous, vengeful and litigious individual in BRI at the moment) who has decided to deep six it. He hasn't had qualms about hiring Brian's band members out from under his nose, trashing his solo album and cozying up to the son of the man who abused BW for a decade, so preventing a soundtrack release is par for the course of his recent actions.

Sorry, but that's the way things look without evidence to the contrary.

Have you considered the complications are to do with the various record labels/publishers involved?  I doubt Mike Love is holding it up.  He stands to make money from it!

[Mike's Beard]

These were his words: "We’re working on it now. Unfortunately, these things get complicated when you’ve got a lot of bits from different songs and different eras, but we’re working through it, and it should be out soon after the film."

While he seems to promise a soundtrack, that's far from a ringing declaration. Given that the movie has been released in the U.S. and the U.K., and given that it is now, indeed, "soon after" the film's release, I think it's fair to note that no soundtrack has been announced or scheduled, or even shown up as an Amazon Germany listing.

Thus, it's not a far hop to say it's not coming out, and likewise that it's most likely Mike (the most jealous, vengeful and litigious individual in BRI at the moment) who has decided to deep six it. He hasn't had qualms about hiring Brian's band members out from under his nose, trashing his solo album and cozying up to the son of the man who abused BW for a decade, so preventing a soundtrack release is par for the course of his recent actions.

Sorry, but that's the way things look without evidence to the contrary.

Mark my words: even if it's proven that this assumption is in fact 100% correct, and if the soundtrack never comes out, the same handful of people will defend Mike and think it's just dandy that he made the soundtrack evaporate for all times.

Mark my words: if the soundtrack album DOES appear, his detractors will say nothing about the conspiracy theories they are currently pulling out of their ass.

[sea of tunes]

Not lobbing a grenade at all but didn't Mike hold up the release of "The Pet Sounds Sessions" in 1996 over objections about the accompanying booklet(s)?  In fact, it wasn't released until 1997, over a year after the original release date.

I don't think Mike has anything to do with the lack of "Love & Mercy" having a soundtrack release yet.  I really think it comes down to viably putting together a packaged soundtrack with the Atticus Ross score.  There's only some 15-20 minutes worth of actual score in the film.  Some of the music is the actual studio musicians in the film, some of it is sourced from the PSS box set and of course the truncated versions of early hits used over the opening montage.  Aside from that, there is non-Beach Boys music used in the film and perhaps that's a hold up.  Maybe the desire is to include all music, songs like "Nowhere To Run" by MR & Vandellas or "These Dreams" by Heart.

But I'm just guessing about that.

[HeyJude]

I'm not at all sure how the nuts and bolts work when it comes to BRI. But in order to approve/disapprove a soundtrack directly related to The Beach Boys wouldn't Mike Love have to watch the film in question? So if Pohlad and the producers wanted to release a soundtrack (which Polhad has expressed numerous times he has wanted) wouldn't Mike be given ample opportunities to see the film or be sent a copy if such a viewing opportunity didn't arise?

Where the dickens do you get this ludicrous notion that Mike - or anyone,in fact - can approve/veto the soundtrack ? It's simple - you pay the appropriate licensing fee for the songs you want to use, and you can use them. I guess if said songs were used in an unsavoury context, or ridiculed, you might have a case for withdrawing the license. Mike has no say in how the movie turns out, any more than Alan, Bruce, Carl's estate, unless they feel they've been defamed. Brian, being the subject, and authorising the movie, is of course a different case entirely.

I was referring to an actual physical release of the soundtrack. According to Howie Edelson:

There IS a movie soundtrack. From everything I know about its (non)release, it needs to be signed off on by ALL the partners of BRI.
As of April 23rd, 2015, that has not happened.

The work by Atticus Rose is brilliant and important and breathtaking. High art from high art. Why would anybody choose not to sign off on that?

People need to know that the rounding of third began long ago.
How one finishes is how history remembers them.

There's a right side and a wrong side to history.
(I'm both amazed -- and sadly used to -- the people choosing the wrong side.)

And it would seem obvious to me that Mike would want to see the film before signing off on such a soundtrack release (in case he felt the movie cast an unsavory light on the Beach Boys or any other reason)...thus I would be hard pressed to believe that Pohlad, the producers didn't give Mike ample opportunities to view this film.

What Howie said - and l defer to his far superior knowledge - was true three months ago: that Pohlad has stated much more recently a soundtrack will be out soon after the movie's release indicates to me that all hurdles have been cleared. As ever, l stand to be corrected, especially if it gets the music out.

I would pipe up here to say that I think you're somewhat mistaken. Howie posted three months ago. The interview with Bill Pohlad that you cite is here (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/06/interview-director-bill-pohlad/) and was published June 2, not "much more recently." Indeed, it's from nearly two months ago.

These were his words: "We’re working on it now. Unfortunately, these things get complicated when you’ve got a lot of bits from different songs and different eras, but we’re working through it, and it should be out soon after the film."

While he seems to promise a soundtrack, that's far from a ringing declaration. Given that the movie has been released in the U.S. and the U.K., and given that it is now, indeed, "soon after" the film's release, I think it's fair to note that no soundtrack has been announced or scheduled, or even shown up as an Amazon Germany listing.

Thus, it's not a far hop to say it's not coming out, and likewise that it's most likely Mike (the most jealous, vengeful and litigious individual in BRI at the moment) who has decided to deep six it. He hasn't had qualms about hiring Brian's band members out from under his nose, trashing his solo album and cozying up to the son of the man who abused BW for a decade, so preventing a soundtrack release is par for the course of his recent actions.

Sorry, but that's the way things look without evidence to the contrary.

Have you considered the complications are to do with the various record labels/publishers involved?  I doubt Mike Love is holding it up.  He stands to make money from it!

The yellow print above points to a member of BRI,  rather than labels or publishers.

[Wirestone]

Exactly. That's what I'm reacting to, and nothing more.

Pohlad says a soundtrack is ready.

Howie says it needs to be signed off on by all members of BRI.

We know that Al and Brian would be on board. Carl's estate would presumably assent as well, for financial reasons. That leaves Mike.

As much as some here would like to suggest that this is about conspiracy theories or some such nonsense, the quotes are the quotes. BP wants the soundtrack out, and says it's ready. Howie says BRI hasn't signed off on it.

It's not out and it hasn't been announced. So ... where does that leave us, given what we know?

[mikeddonn]

Exactly. That's what I'm reacting to, and nothing more.

Pohlad says a soundtrack is ready.

Howie says it needs to be signed off on by all members of BRI.

We know that Al and Brian would be on board. Carl's estate would presumably assent as well, for financial reasons. That leaves Mike.

As much as some here would like to suggest that this is about conspiracy theories or some such nonsense, the quotes are the quotes. BP wants the soundtrack out, and says it's ready. Howie says BRI hasn't signed off on it.

It's not out and it hasn't been announced. So ... where does that leave us, given what we know?

Carl's estate would approve for financial reasons but Mike wouldn't?  Is that what you're saying?

Howie says BRI members need to sign off on it.  Is this because BRI own the recordings? I assume they do.  When did his happen?  This would mean that at some point Capital gave up ownership of the Beach Boys catalogue which would not have been a smart move.  Who knows when this happened?

[HeyJude]

Exactly. That's what I'm reacting to, and nothing more.

Pohlad says a soundtrack is ready.

Howie says it needs to be signed off on by all members of BRI.

We know that Al and Brian would be on board. Carl's estate would presumably assent as well, for financial reasons. That leaves Mike.

As much as some here would like to suggest that this is about conspiracy theories or some such nonsense, the quotes are the quotes. BP wants the soundtrack out, and says it's ready. Howie says BRI hasn't signed off on it.

It's not out and it hasn't been announced. So ... where does that leave us, given what we know?

Carl's estate would approve for financial reasons but Mike wouldn't?  Is that what you're saying?

Howie says BRI members need to sign off on it.  Is this because BRI own the recordings? I assume they do.  When did his happen?  This would mean that at some point Capital gave up ownership of the Beach Boys catalogue which would not have been a smart move.  Who knows when this happened?

My understanding is that BRI has to approve any use of the Capitol-era recordings if they are not the released mixes/masters. That would include re-mixes and other use of multi-track elements. Capitol/UME owns the recordings still. The only thing the label can do without BRI approval is release the same masters they did in the 60s. That's why we see endless hits compilations.

[CenturyDeprived]

Exactly. That's what I'm reacting to, and nothing more.

Pohlad says a soundtrack is ready.

Howie says it needs to be signed off on by all members of BRI.

We know that Al and Brian would be on board. Carl's estate would presumably assent as well, for financial reasons. That leaves Mike.

As much as some here would like to suggest that this is about conspiracy theories or some such nonsense, the quotes are the quotes. BP wants the soundtrack out, and says it's ready. Howie says BRI hasn't signed off on it.

It's not out and it hasn't been announced. So ... where does that leave us, given what we know?

Carl's estate would approve for financial reasons but Mike wouldn't?  Is that what you're saying?

Howie says BRI members need to sign off on it.  Is this because BRI own the recordings? I assume they do.  When did his happen?  This would mean that at some point Capital gave up ownership of the Beach Boys catalogue which would not have been a smart move.  Who knows when this happened?

My understanding is that BRI has to approve any use of the Capitol-era recordings if they are not the released mixes/masters. That would include re-mixes and other use of multi-track elements. Capitol/UME owns the recordings still. The only thing the label can do without BRI approval is release the same masters they did in the 60s. That's why we see endless hits compilations.

I guess that means there could have been lawsuits flying due to the multiple wrong versions/mixes issued on the 1990 1st-edition CDs of 15BO and MIU, right?

One wonders what would/wouldn't be released if the decision to release material rested solely on any one member's shoulders.

[Ang Jones]

But I don't want to see Brian and his band turned into something else either.

Such as... ?  And who, pray, has been threatening to turn Brian & his band "into something else" ?

I simply meant that I didn't want to see another reunion with Brian and his band becoming Brian, Mike and their bands. No-one has threatened or promised this but there are those who are repeatedly asking for it even though they've already had it and it ended badly.

[Andrew G. Doe]

As l recall, C50 was Brian, his band in toto, Mike & Bruce, two of their band, Alan and David. And most everybody in the BB cosmos was very happy with that. I sure as hell was.

[cant wait]

Ang, Brian is the Beach Boys. It will happen.

[Ang Jones]

As l recall, C50 was Brian, his band in toto, Mike & Bruce, two of their band, Alan and David. And most everybody in the BB cosmos was very happy with that. I sure as hell was.

Perhaps I'm not in the BB cosmos but the BW cosmos. I saw two of the C50 concerts. They were successful shows. But here is the difference. On the one hand, we have Brian, centre stage, reminding me of the Nature Boy lyric "a very strange, enchanted boy.... a little shy and sad of eye...". Sometimes mimes the lyrics, sometimes a smile. It's sometimes imperfect, sometimes serious,  sometimes astonishing, usually with fun encores, then a highly emotional conclusion. The audience reaction to Brian is not just excitement but genuine love and respect.

Then the C50 Beach Boys. Parts of it fast, fun, with big screens filled with young bodies surfing, lying on the beach. Mike pointing at various audience members. Brian to the left of stage and no doubt enjoying to some extent not being the focal point. At times there seemed to be certain undercurrents but maybe I was imagining those. I wasn't imagining it being a show in two halves - even Mike said so - and whether he meant parts one or two, there was more to it than that.

Each to his own but I prefer the first scenario.

[Ang Jones]

Ang, Brian is the Beach Boys. It will happen.

That's what you want. It isn't what I want. And for the time being at least it doesn't seem to be what Brian wants.

[Ang Jones]

I must add this. Although Brian was in the Beach Boys for many years, for a large part of that time and probably for the most successful part of the band's career, Brian was not touring with the Beach Boys. So all those who claim they want Brian back with 'the Boys' because they grew up with the Beach Boys are remembering something which happened for the first few years and then 1976 and later, at a time when Brian may have been in it but he was only too obviously not really of it. Brian often isn't at ease in his tours with his band either, but he isn't just trying to keep his head down in the background, with an occasional wave at the audience.

As composer of the music, as producer in the studio, Brian is in his element but I don't think he entirely fits in with the Beach Boys on stage. Having younger, accomplished musicians is perhaps easier than having that sibling rivalry that has always plagued this band. It was noticeable in various Beach Boys' shows - Brian backed off from it but some of the other band members didn't.

[HeyJude]

I guess that means there could have been lawsuits flying due to the multiple wrong versions/mixes issued on the 1990 1st-edition CDs of 15BO and MIU, right?

One wonders what would/wouldn't be released if the decision to release material rested solely on any one member's shoulders.

I’m veering away from the original topic, but quickly, the post-1969 material is (with a few exceptions like a few soundtrack songs, etc.) all owned by BRI, both released and unreleased material. So when they used incorrect mixes on some of those early Brother reissues back in 1990, there was nobody to sue really. They were Brother products, simply licensed out to, at the time, Sony/Epic. (And it would be difficult for lawsuits to fly over such an issue, as it would be hard to prove actual monetary damages in such a case. How does one prove that the BB’s were somehow tarnished because a slightly alternate mix of “Winds of Change” hit the market?)

Capitol/Universal owns all of the 60’s recordings (again, with some scattered exceptions like the Hite Morgan tapes, home recordings, etc.), because they ostensibly paid for those sessions. In more modern times, my understanding is that Capitol has full autonomous control over any releases/repackagings, etc. of originally released 60’s mixes (meaning all the original mono and stereo masters released on albums and singles; thus the incessant hits packages). While they still own all of the session tapes as well, they can’t release any “new” material (outtakes, alternate mixes) without approval from BRI. They have also worked with BRI in some cases even on predominantly “hits” packages, incorporating new stereo remixes, soliciting input from BB’s for track selections, etc.

Meanwhile, all the “Brother-era” stuff is owned by BRI, both released and unreleased. They still have an ongoing licensing agreement with Capitol (and previously Sony/Epic) for some of the Brother-era albums and the myriad of outtakes they’ve released, etc. I don’t know if BRI currently has an ongoing contract with Capitol offering them first rights of refusal on anything or everything.

Because “Love & Mercy” uses isolated and remixed elements from recordings (mostly Capitol-era, but also stuff like “’Til I Die”), BRI would have to approve that use. What I’m not clear on is how they got BRI approval for the use of the recordings in the film itself (and thank God they did of course; if it did indeed require approval), but not for a stand-alone release of the score/soundtrack. Did they all sign off on use for the actual film, and then someone changed their mind later when it came time to sign off on a stand-alone soundtrack release? I honestly don’t know.

[cant wait]

you can make your own soundtrack once you get the blu-ray

[HeyJude]

you can make your own soundtrack once you get the blu-ray

Depends on how it’s mixed. It may not be possible to fully extract the dialogue from the music (and it’s a pain in the ass for some folks to do that kind of thing anyway).

Also, typically a soundtrack release has more of the raw cues, whereas things get truncated and re-arranged for the actual film.

A standalone soundtrack release would be more substantial and preferable in every way. It would be just like sticking the DVD or Blu-ray in and just listening to the rear channels of the surround sound mix or something.

[cant wait]

a homemade soundtrack may suffice if the alternate fails to exist

[sea of tunes]

a homemade soundtrack may suffice if the alternate fails to exist

It will have to suffice.  The good thing is with BD, there will be a DTS HD Master (Lossless) of the audio track as an option.  And, as I wrote in the Blu-ray thread...

"With LOVE & MERCY, if no soundtrack is released, my plan is to take the BD and use DVD Audio Extractor on my Mac Book to rip the 24/48 audio.  That way, at least I can have in tact tracks of some of Atticus Ross' score.  Specifically, "Black Hole", "Headphones", and "Deep End".   The other parts of the score have dialog interspersed so those wouldn't be ideal.  All the more reason for the score to be released, in tact, separately.

I think there's only like 15-20 minutes of actual score truthfully, maybe a little more, but not much.  In that case, a Hi-Rez download might be ideal over a physical release, unless they choose to flesh out a "soundtrack" with tracks.  Or, as I have mentioned elsewhere, ideally, there would be an "Isolated Score Track" included on the DVD/BD.  If that were the case, I would be able to use the DAE tool I mentioned to extract the isolated tracks in 24/48 for my own personal enjoyment."

[Cam Mott]

I'm guessing it IS some boring practical/financial thing that has nothing to do with permission from Capitol or BRI.

[sea of tunes]

I'm guessing it some boring practical/financial thing that has nothing to do with permission from Capitol or BRI.

I would completely agree.  It would be almost unthinkable to not have a soundtrack release for a movie about Brian Freaking Wilson.  But this is the world of the Beach Boys where rights and other minutia cloud things from time to time.  Always there on the horizon waiting to waft in and grind things to a halt.

[cant wait]

the soundtrack will be released if the Oscar push gains traction

[startBBtoday]

Ang, Brian is the Beach Boys. It will happen.

That's what you want. It isn't what I want. And for the time being at least it doesn't seem to be what Brian wants.

If the powers that be are reading, I feel it's important to state this is not the opinion of the majority of the board.

Please reunite.