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Author Topic: Carol Kaye is at It again  (Read 20515 times)
Wrightfan
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« on: July 12, 2015, 04:04:43 PM »

One of my friends on Twitter is friends with the woman who portrayed Carol in L&M. Just tweeted this out:
@myfriendkatye: My wonderful, beautiful friend played Carol Kaye in the movie Love & Mercy. Carol Kaye called her a bimbo. Carol Kaye is a twat.

Someone's getting cranky in old age  Roll Eyes
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pixletwin
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2015, 04:27:31 PM »

Cmon. Carol, crotchety as we know she is, wasn't calling the actress a bimbo. She didn't like the portrayal of her in the movie. She is an advanced highly experienced musician and she objected to being shown as dumbfounded by bass concepts which were actually common place in jazz.

I can understand where CK is coming from on this one.
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sea of tunes
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2015, 04:34:22 PM »

Carol's Facebook post (rant) which was subsequently deleted like a day or two later said she was 'portrayed as some bimbo'.  Her biggest gripe seemed to be about wearing a fire hat in the "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" session, she actually didn't wear a fire hat (the horror).
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2015, 05:07:20 PM »

We discussed this a couple of weeks ago. Did she do it AGAIN? !
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2015, 06:34:35 PM »

Well, it IS all about her after all, isn't it?

Good grief. And she's allegedly going to be contacting her lawyer now.

What makes it worse are her sheep who are all "YEAH!!! YOU TELL 'EM!!!" and are equally appalled at her being portrayed as a bimbo. Now...I've seen the movie three times so far...last time I especially paid close attention to her character to see what she means by this whole "bimbo" thing, and....really, what am I missing???
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 06:36:35 PM by 37!ws » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2015, 06:41:52 PM »

They wrote her as being dumbfounded at bass voicings which are pretty common. You can't see how she, as a professional musician, might find that a bit offensive?
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2015, 06:44:04 PM »

Well, yeah, PT, you have a point; after all, it IS all about her, isn't it?
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2015, 06:46:24 PM »

Well, it IS all about her after all, isn't it?

Good grief. And she's allegedly going to be contacting her lawyer now.

What makes it worse are her sheep who are all "YEAH!!! YOU TELL 'EM!!!" and are equally appalled at her being portrayed as a bimbo. Now...I've seen the movie three times so far...last time I especially paid close attention to her character to see what she means by this whole "bimbo" thing, and....really, what am I missing???

Carol's Twatters (as they are affectionately known) really are just forlorn sheep. "Yes" people all the way. and for what? to prop up a sadly delusional old screeching bat? I'm presuming a total IQ of the group of 100; the Bimbettes, there's a name...  
 Hard to understand how she could believe that the massive credentials of her entire career, teeter on  bit part  portrayal in L&M. Bimbo is a perfect description of her reaction to the film
 
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2015, 06:48:34 PM »

Well, yeah, PT, you have a point; after all, it IS all about her, isn't it?

Obviously not. I'm just saying that I can understand why it rankled her a bit. You know?
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2015, 06:50:02 PM »

The point of the scene is to convey the musical intricacy of the music, not that Carol wasn't a knowledgeable musician. Cripes.
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pixletwin
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2015, 06:52:53 PM »

The point of the scene is to convey the musical intricacy of the music, not that Carol wasn't a knowledgeable musician. Cripes.

I understand that too.
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2015, 07:01:51 PM »

My comment is directed at Carol. I agree with you pixeltwin - i might find it a little annoying if I were her. But she must realize why they wrote it like that
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2015, 07:12:58 PM »

Love & Mercy clearly should have been all about how Brian Wilson was lost until Carol Kaye and Van Dyke Parks made him the genius musician he is today.  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2015, 07:19:50 PM »

My comment is directed at Carol. I agree with you pixeltwin - i might find it a little annoying if I were her. But she must realize why they wrote it like that

Yes. Same with Van. You'd think they cold make some concessions for the necessities of story telling. Ah well.
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2015, 10:56:32 PM »

I note from her FB page she's writing a book. Hope she's got really, really good lawyers and a money tree in the back yard. She & Bernard Purdie should get together and swap notes.
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2015, 02:01:56 AM »

Well, it IS all about her after all, isn't it?

Good grief. And she's allegedly going to be contacting her lawyer now.

What makes it worse are her sheep who are all "YEAH!!! YOU TELL 'EM!!!" and are equally appalled at her being portrayed as a bimbo. Now...I've seen the movie three times so far...last time I especially paid close attention to her character to see what she means by this whole "bimbo" thing, and....really, what am I missing???

Carol's Twatters (as they are affectionately known) really are just forlorn sheep. "Yes" people all the way. and for what? to prop up a sadly delusional old screeching bat? I'm presuming a total IQ of the group of 100; the Bimbettes, there's a name...  
 Hard to understand how she could believe that the massive credentials of her entire career, teeter on  bit part  portrayal in L&M. Bimbo is a perfect description of her reaction to the film
 

That's because she instantly deletes anybody who does not toe the line.
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2015, 02:12:42 AM »

Other ways of getting deleted from her FB page or banned from her website: mentioning any of the following...

James Jamerson
Allan Slutsky
The Wrecking Crew
Denny Tedesco
Torrentfreak

I deeply respect and admire her musical talents and stellar achievements (only a fool would deny those) - but as a person she's become increasingly deplorable. It's sad that she may end up being remembered more for being a deluded unpleasant old woman who has repeatedly lied about tracks it can be proven beyond question she never played on than for being not merely a stellar talent, but a female one in what was then almost exclusively a man's world. A true pioneer.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 02:20:11 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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adamghost
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2015, 02:25:53 AM »

Well, yeah, PT, you have a point; after all, it IS all about her, isn't it?

Obviously not. I'm just saying that I can understand why it rankled her a bit. You know?

Well, if that was all she said, sure.  But she didn't.  Here's the whole rant for ya.  Defend if you like:

NOTICE ABOUT THE LOVE & MERCY BIOPIC.........I want to thank all my good Friends and Fans for being concerned about how I was portrayed in Brian Wilson biopic movie "Love And Mercy".....I know you know, it was a totally false personna. Thank-you for your feedback about it .....I'm writing about this to confirm you're all correct.....that portrayal was NOT ME at all, not even close....

I don't know where they got that idea of what I looked like (never wore a fire-hat like a bimbo NO), nor what I said which is completely made-up and false....(no I never said that) and the way I played? That, I was consulted on Skype by the actress about holding the pick but that she even got that wrong too. A minor thing, but tho't I'd mention it as it was the *only* time I was ever contacted. Proof that they knew how to contact me for the rest, but they chose NOT TO verify anything about me.

While yes, they got me wrong in this BioPic, they probably got a lot of other things wrong on other things and people too....however, the fact that I'm the *only woman Professional" widely known in the world for the 1,000s of big hits, movies, and TV-shows I've recorded, heralded as the Leader in Bass Education, most-endorsed Educator, working hard all my life building a huge career that no-one can even come close to doing man or woman....this film slanders me and speaks falsely about women Professionals in general, giving us all a black eye....I was the only "woman" in the Professional role in that film....and yes that made me angry not only for my Family's embarrassment, but also for ALL Top Women Professionals which it affects in all fields...You were correct, it was a slam against us all as you all perceived, yes.

Why they never consulted me, I'll never know...I'm very easy to contact, I'm in the Musicians Union Book. I will be speaking to an attorney soon about this.

Again, I and my Family totally thank you for your great supportive messages.....you know me, and know that was NOT me, and yes, they got me very wrong....... please continue to tell others, thank-you. I'm most-indebted to you for your caring, your support and most of all, letting others know the truth.....that it was a total embarrassment and an insult against all the fine women Professionals everywhere, Thank-You, your Friend, Carol Kaye

(cc: legal file)


Now, full disclosure: I know Teresa Cowles, the actress who played Carol Kaye, extremely well.  She has played with me for over 10 years.  But it's not the implied slight (which I accept was not meant personally, though as I will detail below, the patronization is totally unwarranted) that pisses me off; it's the egocentricity and self-aggrandizement of equating the concern of how her unhappiness with her portrayal somehow is a slight at women professionals everywhere.  A fire hat makes you look like a bimbo, but not the rest of your outfit (which is authentic to '60s stills)?  You've got a problem with how the pick is being held?  And this is a crisis of feminism because you're the "only woman professional" known for X, Y and Z?  

Let me tell y'all why this grates.  Teresa cared enough personally reach out to CK about pick technique because she was a finger player all her life.  She has four days to nail CK's particular style - the style she berates bass players from Gene Simmons on down about because they don't come up to her high technical standards - and didn't.  Would anybody else playing CK even bother, or even get close?  Of course not!  To bring up something so petty, even in terms of making a larger point about the film, is so churlish and clueless I'm just shaking my head in disbelief.

So let me say something about women "professionals" - as I've said, I've played with Teresa Cowles for 10 years, including on the Long Promised Road:  Songs of Dennis and Carl Wilson Live album.  She's also gigged with Al Jardine, The Honeys, Ben Vaughn, Michael des Barres, Jeremy Spencer of Fleetwood Mac, and Brian himself.  Is she as technically gifted as Carol Kaye?  Why no - as CK takes great pains to remind us, she is in a class by herself.  However, can she get a track cut in the studio just as fast as Carol?  Why yes she can, as I have cause to know because I've done dozens of sessions with her.  And she can go out and play that song live and sing a harmony a semitone above the note she's holding down on the bass, which I'm fairly sure CK cannot do.

I personally believe CK is unhappy with Teresa's portrayal because T came across as someone who is pleasant and easy to work with - which she is.  She also is tough as nails and chock full of integrity, as I can attest from having done many club tours with her.  She's as far from a bimbo as one can get.  But most importantly, she shows up for work, and gets the job done, and does not ask for nor receive special attention because she is female.  She is quite simply one of the band on equal terms.  

So I guess I'm offended because CK dares to equate her self-important, petty concerns with one minute of the film with the concerns of "women professionals" everywhere, because, you know, how dare she.  CK was a trailblazer and a fine bass player, no doubt, but Teresa Cowles in no way tarnishes that legacy.  She IS that fricking legacy.  Whining, padding your part, and trumpeting one's own accomplishments is not the mark of a "professional."  Showing up for work and doing your job is.  CK in her ranting does not represent women professionals.  Teresa Cowles does.  

Rant over.  But...God.  I really want to kick that lady in the ass.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 02:44:37 AM by adamghost » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2015, 03:13:09 AM »

This, by an order of magnitude slightly past infinite.
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2015, 03:16:28 AM »

Sooo...how did CK feel about her portrayal in "An American Family"?  Did she complain about that, too?
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« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2015, 03:35:56 AM »

Three points:

(1) Any attorney worth their salt that CK may consult will undoubtedly take one look at that film and say, "You gotta be kidding me. Where's the slander? Where's the malice? How did this film in any way damage your personal or professional reputation? Unless your name is Eugene E. Landy, go take a hike, granny." And if there's a lawyer dumb enough to take the case, any judge worth their salt would surely dismiss it on the same lack-of-malice grounds. Are Larry Levine's family likely to consult a lawyer because HE should have been depicted engineering the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "Good Vibrations" sessions instead of CK? Are Ray Pohlman's family likely to do so because CK is depicted playing Fender bass on "Good Vibrations" when it's been well-established that Ray, not CK, did so on the hit version? As others have pointed out, this film is not about them, and the details from those scenes are relatively minor in the broader context of the whole thing.

(2) The director and/or prop people who stuck a fire hat on TC's head were working from the well-established fact that musicians on that studio date wore fire helmets, purchased for them by Brian to enhance the sense of "scary fun" he wanted to capture during the "Fire" session. We have Brian on video talking about this, AND we have Jasper Dailey's photos from the session itself to prove this. So what if CK chose not to wear one? Were the director and prop people supposed to know that? And why would they bother asking CK if she wore one, when it can be proven that Brian and most of the musicians there did. Were they supposed to consult with all living participants in that session who weren't already seen in the session photos, to ask if they actually wore a fire helmet at that session? That would be ludicrous. AND the fact that many of the session participant did so hardly decreased their standing at all: CK is reacting as if she was depicted walking in off the street already wearing a stupid toy hat and therefore became a laughing stock to her peers - when nothing of the sort is true. In reality, it was Brian's idea, and a fine, fun one at that. Anybody watching the movie will doubtless come away with that impression!

(3) CK is definitely not the only woman professional depicted in the film...maybe the '60s scenes, but hello! Melinda Leadbetter 1980s, anyone?


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« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2015, 03:39:24 AM »

Sooo...how did CK feel about her portrayal in "An American Family"?  Did she complain about that, too?

She wrote:

"Tera Hendrickson, film star who portrayed me in 'American Family' 2-part TV Series about the Beach Boys. She's not only a terrific actress but is a fine bass player/singer too, lovely person who you see in many a movie, TV show and even in ads. Very classy lady!"

« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 05:19:55 AM by Sjöman » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2015, 08:00:46 AM »

working hard all my life building a huge career that no-one can even come close to doing man or woman.
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And people complain Mike likes to toot his own horn.
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« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2015, 08:14:03 AM »

I deeply respect and admire her musical talents and stellar achievements (only a fool would deny those) - but as a person she's become increasingly deplorable. It's sad that she may end up being remembered more for being a deluded unpleasant old woman who has repeatedly lied about tracks it can be proven beyond question she never played on than for being not merely a stellar talent, but a female one in what was then almost exclusively a man's world. A true pioneer.

Her latest diatribe is really making me even reconsidering THIS much, to be honest.
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« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2015, 08:29:46 AM »

A critically acclaimed movie that has all - note ALL - the fans in raptures, and all she can find to say is...

"I never dressed like that" (err... yes you did)

"I never wore a fire hat" (only got your word for that and even if you didn't... so what ?)

"She's holding the pick wrong" (really ? I mean... REALLY ??)

Can you imagine the shitstorm if she'd not been portrayed at all ? She'd self-combust.

Oh... wait... uh, for the DVD release, could we...  Evil
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 08:36:27 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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