The solid LPs vs the gap bridgers.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Today had no filler. The radio interview at the end I guess, but that was more of an epilogue. It's unintrusive and harmless. Then SD saw a return to the filler in a big way. So it's not anachronistic, it's indicitive of a regression after a previous breakthrough

Today and Summer Days aren't full of filler by any means.

Sheesh, I'd love to know what versions of these albums you guys are all listening to. Friends without Little Bird is a weak LP? sh*t.

I specifically said Today had no filler unless you count the interview snippet at the end, which doesnt bother me. But SD definitely has filler. Im Bugged at My Old Man, a rehash of Rhonda and weird subpar experiments like Amusement Parks USA. It has some real gems too, but overall it doesnt coalesce into a really great, cohesive LP the same way Today and Pet Sounds do. It came out very quickly after Today, was a big step down from that, and in no way a natural evolutionary link between that and PS. It's a valley between two peaks. A stop gap if ever there was one. That doesnt mean its terrible or you shouldnt like it, but call it what it is.

[Douchepool]

A valley between two peaks? Meaning...between Today and Party? I don't know about that. And Help Me Rhonda, a number one hit and a classic production, is FILLER? The productions were only improving; Brian was honing his craft to a level even better than what he achieved on Today. Yeah, I'd buy Party as the stopgap, sure...but Summer Days was just another evolution in the Beach Boys sound and Brian's productions.

[kookadams]

I never called Summer Days a hodgepodge...its a great album! And just because side 2 of Today is the mellow side vs the fast songs on side 1 doesnt make it a lesser album. And I never said post67 BBs is crap, just hit&miss..wild honey is a solid lp I dont care what anyone says, same w 20/20; sunflower's strengths is in dennis's songs rather than brian's for the first and only time; surfs up & holland have some great songs and somw mediocre as well, agreed? 15bO is a solid sounding lp it just bummed some people out because it was all outtakes and covers.

[Steve Latshaw]

<<I never called Summer Days a hodgepodge...its a great album! And just because side 2 of Today is the mellow side vs the fast songs on side 1 doesnt make it a lesser album. And I never said post67 BBs is crap, just hit&miss..wild honey is a solid lp I dont care what anyone says, same w 20/20; sunflower's strengths is in dennis's songs rather than brian's for the first and only time; surfs up & holland have some great songs and somw mediocre as well, agreed? 15bO is a solid sounding lp it just bummed some people out because it was all outtakes and covers. >>

Kook - would ya say MIU, LA and KTSA are all out-takes and covers, too?  And maybe Holland is the last real Beach Boys album?

Sign me curious.

[drbeachboy]

Today had no filler. The radio interview at the end I guess, but that was more of an epilogue. It's unintrusive and harmless. Then SD saw a return to the filler in a big way. So it's not anachronistic, it's indicitive of a regression after a previous breakthrough

Today and Summer Days aren't full of filler by any means.

Sheesh, I'd love to know what versions of these albums you guys are all listening to. Friends without Little Bird is a weak LP? sh*t.

I specifically said Today had no filler unless you count the interview snippet at the end, which doesnt bother me. But SD definitely has filler. Im Bugged at My Old Man, a rehash of Rhonda and weird subpar experiments like Amusement Parks USA. It has some real gems too, but overall it doesnt coalesce into a really great, cohesive LP the same way Today and Pet Sounds do. It came out very quickly after Today, was a big step down from that, and in no way a natural evolutionary link between that and PS. It's a valley between two peaks. A stop gap if ever there was one. That doesnt mean its terrible or you shouldnt like it, but call it what it is.

You blew any and all credibility with me when you call the single version of Help Me Rhonda "Filler".
What we don't do or say to prove a point.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Today had no filler. The radio interview at the end I guess, but that was more of an epilogue. It's unintrusive and harmless. Then SD saw a return to the filler in a big way. So it's not anachronistic, it's indicitive of a regression after a previous breakthrough

Today and Summer Days aren't full of filler by any means.

Sheesh, I'd love to know what versions of these albums you guys are all listening to. Friends without Little Bird is a weak LP? sh*t.

I specifically said Today had no filler unless you count the interview snippet at the end, which doesnt bother me. But SD definitely has filler. Im Bugged at My Old Man, a rehash of Rhonda and weird subpar experiments like Amusement Parks USA. It has some real gems too, but overall it doesnt coalesce into a really great, cohesive LP the same way Today and Pet Sounds do. It came out very quickly after Today, was a big step down from that, and in no way a natural evolutionary link between that and PS. It's a valley between two peaks. A stop gap if ever there was one. That doesnt mean its terrible or you shouldnt like it, but call it what it is.

You blew any and all credibility with me when you call the single version of Help Me Rhonda "Filler".
What we don't do or say to prove a point.

It was on the very previous album (yes, yes, a different version I know) and released as a standalone single. To release the same song FOR THE THIRD TIME yes, I'd call that filler.

[Douchepool]

It's not the same song. It's a completely different production. Brian commonly included the current single on the new album. Calling it "filler" puts it in the same league as Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson.

By your logic, Heroes and Villains on the Smile box set is "filler."

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

It's not the same song. It's a completely different production. Brian commonly included the current single on the new album. Calling it "filler" puts it in the same league as Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson.

By your logic, Heroes and Villains on the Smile box set is "filler."

Except that that's a historical release and recreation of the album H&V was originally meant to premiere on.

Sorry but as far as I'm concerned, rereleasing a song for a third time in quick succession is cheap filler. I love Brian but I'm not gonna pull punches when he made mistakes of that magnitude.

[Douchepool]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

[Moon Dawg]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

 Comparing the continuity of SUMMER DAYS & SUMMER NIGHTS with 20/20 is absurd. ALL SUMMER LONG, TODAY, and SUMMER DAYS are all on equal footing, with TODAY being the best of the three. PARTY is a stopgap, then a breakthrough with PET SOUNDS. Beach Boys 101.

[Douchepool]

Does I Get Around fall under these same criteria? I wonder...

[Moon Dawg]

  WILD HONEY is one Beach Boys album I rarely listen to anymore. Once a favorite, now in some respects (to me) the least of the post PET SOUNDS albums on Capitol. Maybe I should listen again. I've noticed here and there it's often a favorite among rock critics who like but do not love The Beach Boys: Robert Christgau, Greil Marcus, maybe Dave Marsh. But who cares what Dave Marsh likes, LOL.

That's not a very kind thing to say about the man who wrote a book about "Louie Louie".

And yes-----maybe you should listen again to Wild Honey...

 Re Marsh: Perhaps too kind about a man who once gave SUNFLOWER a ** rating out of *****. HOLLAND too. PET SOUNDS? A whole ***. See the first edition of The Rolling Stone Record Guide, red cover, 1978.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

 Comparing the continuity of SUMMER DAYS & SUMMER NIGHTS with 20/20 is absurd. ALL SUMMER LONG, TODAY, and SUMMER DAYS are all on equal footing, with TODAY being the best of the three. PARTY is a stopgap, then a breakthrough with PET SOUNDS. Beach Boys 101.

Pet Sounds and Today are classic albums. ASL and SD are very good, but flawed. SD's flaws come under harder scrutiny because by then Brian knew better and had done better. Opinionology 420.

[Douchepool]

Re Marsh: Perhaps too kind about a man who once gave SUNFLOWER a ** rating out of *****. HOLLAND too. PET SOUNDS? A whole ***. See the first edition of The Rolling Stone Record Guide, red cover, 1978.

If they're writing for Rolling Stone, their opinions are automatically contemptible.

[Moon Dawg]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

 Comparing the continuity of SUMMER DAYS & SUMMER NIGHTS with 20/20 is absurd. ALL SUMMER LONG, TODAY, and SUMMER DAYS are all on equal footing, with TODAY being the best of the three. PARTY is a stopgap, then a breakthrough with PET SOUNDS. Beach Boys 101.

Pet Sounds and Today are classic albums. ASL and SD are very good, but flawed. SD's flaws come under harder scrutiny because by then Brian knew better and had done better. Opinionology 420.

 Quick response! The 420 isn't slowing you down a bit. 

[Moon Dawg]

Re Marsh: Perhaps too kind about a man who once gave SUNFLOWER a ** rating out of *****. HOLLAND too. PET SOUNDS? A whole ***. See the first edition of The Rolling Stone Record Guide, red cover, 1978.

If they're writing for Rolling Stone, their opinions are automatically contemptible.

 Marsh has his head so far up Springsteen's a$$...another thread I guess.  He once wrote a classic anti-Love piece called "Shut Down Vol 3", to be found in his FORTUNATE SON anthology collection. I like his 1001 singles book. At times.

[drbeachboy]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

Different arrangement which Brian made an improvement upon the original. An improvement is not filler. A number one hit single is not filler. Are greatest hit compilations all filler? All the songs were released on prior albums, so they must be. So a song like Wouldn't It Be Nice is not filler on Pet Sounds, but is filler on any other album that it might appear on? This whole discourse is ridiculous. Sorry, but that is my opinion. If you disagree, sorry, that is how I see it.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

Different arrangement which Brian made an improvement upon the original. An improvement is not filler. A number one hit single is not filler. Are greatest hit compilations all filler? All the songs were released on prior albums, so they must be. So a song like Wouldn't It Be Nice is not filler on Pet Sounds, but is filler on any other album that it might appear on? This whole discourse is ridiculous. Sorry, but that is my opinion. If you disagree, sorry, that is how I see it.

Maybe he should have just rereleased Surfin Safari in a new arrangement every album

But seriously, I'm sorry if we can't see the others point but yes I think rehashing a song that's already been rearranged and rereleased is bad form. Number one hit or no. Each new studio album is an independent creation. It would be like a director remaking a scene from his very last movie into the new one. Or an author reusing a chapter from his last novel into his latest. Doesn't matter if it's the best scene/chapter/song ever, it's still poor craftsmanship. Something Brian was above by that point.

Greatest Hits are not the same thing. When you buy those, you know what you're getting--the hit singles repackaged into one convenient LP. Not the same as reusing tracks from the previous studio LP.

[joshferrell]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

Different arrangement which Brian made an improvement upon the original. An improvement is not filler. A number one hit single is not filler. Are greatest hit compilations all filler? All the songs were released on prior albums, so they must be. So a song like Wouldn't It Be Nice is not filler on Pet Sounds, but is filler on any other album that it might appear on? This whole discourse is ridiculous. Sorry, but that is my opinion. If you disagree, sorry, that is how I see it.

Maybe he should have just rereleased Surfin Safari in a new arrangement every album

But seriously, I'm sorry if we can't see the others point but yes I think rehashing a song that's already been rearranged and rereleased is bad form. Number one hit or no. Each new studio album is an independent creation. It would be like a director remaking a scene from his very last movie into the new one. Or an author reusing a chapter from his last novel into his latest. Doesn't matter if it's the best scene/chapter/song ever, it's still poor craftsmanship. Something Brian was above by that point.

Greatest Hits are not the same thing. When you buy those, you know what you're getting--the hit singles repackaged into one convenient LP. Not the same as reusing tracks from the previous studio LP.

you've heard of a guy named George Lucas?

[alf wiedersehen]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

Different arrangement which Brian made an improvement upon the original. An improvement is not filler. A number one hit single is not filler. Are greatest hit compilations all filler? All the songs were released on prior albums, so they must be. So a song like Wouldn't It Be Nice is not filler on Pet Sounds, but is filler on any other album that it might appear on? This whole discourse is ridiculous. Sorry, but that is my opinion. If you disagree, sorry, that is how I see it.

Maybe he should have just rereleased Surfin Safari in a new arrangement every album

But seriously, I'm sorry if we can't see the others point but yes I think rehashing a song that's already been rearranged and rereleased is bad form. Number one hit or no. Each new studio album is an independent creation. It would be like a director remaking a scene from his very last movie into the new one. Or an author reusing a chapter from his last novel into his latest. Doesn't matter if it's the best scene/chapter/song ever, it's still poor craftsmanship. Something Brian was above by that point.

Greatest Hits are not the same thing. When you buy those, you know what you're getting--the hit singles repackaged into one convenient LP. Not the same as reusing tracks from the previous studio LP.

you've heard of a guy named Frank Zappa?

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

Different arrangement which Brian made an improvement upon the original. An improvement is not filler. A number one hit single is not filler. Are greatest hit compilations all filler? All the songs were released on prior albums, so they must be. So a song like Wouldn't It Be Nice is not filler on Pet Sounds, but is filler on any other album that it might appear on? This whole discourse is ridiculous. Sorry, but that is my opinion. If you disagree, sorry, that is how I see it.

Maybe he should have just rereleased Surfin Safari in a new arrangement every album

But seriously, I'm sorry if we can't see the others point but yes I think rehashing a song that's already been rearranged and rereleased is bad form. Number one hit or no. Each new studio album is an independent creation. It would be like a director remaking a scene from his very last movie into the new one. Or an author reusing a chapter from his last novel into his latest. Doesn't matter if it's the best scene/chapter/song ever, it's still poor craftsmanship. Something Brian was above by that point.

Greatest Hits are not the same thing. When you buy those, you know what you're getting--the hit singles repackaged into one convenient LP. Not the same as reusing tracks from the previous studio LP.

you've heard of a guy named George Lucas?

Thanks for proving my point.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

Different arrangement which Brian made an improvement upon the original. An improvement is not filler. A number one hit single is not filler. Are greatest hit compilations all filler? All the songs were released on prior albums, so they must be. So a song like Wouldn't It Be Nice is not filler on Pet Sounds, but is filler on any other album that it might appear on? This whole discourse is ridiculous. Sorry, but that is my opinion. If you disagree, sorry, that is how I see it.

Maybe he should have just rereleased Surfin Safari in a new arrangement every album

But seriously, I'm sorry if we can't see the others point but yes I think rehashing a song that's already been rearranged and rereleased is bad form. Number one hit or no. Each new studio album is an independent creation. It would be like a director remaking a scene from his very last movie into the new one. Or an author reusing a chapter from his last novel into his latest. Doesn't matter if it's the best scene/chapter/song ever, it's still poor craftsmanship. Something Brian was above by that point.

Greatest Hits are not the same thing. When you buy those, you know what you're getting--the hit singles repackaged into one convenient LP. Not the same as reusing tracks from the previous studio LP.

you've heard of a guy named Frank Zappa?

Zappa did that?

[joshferrell]

Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days a "mistake."

And I thought my opinions were f***ed up. But hey, you're entitled. This is going nowhere.

Itd be like if he rerecorded WIBN for SMiLE after having it on Pet Sounds and as a single. Nice, but unnecessary, a waste of space and lazy.

Rhonda is a great song but it was already on an album and a standalone single. No point in releasing it again except to fill space. Sorry if you disagree, but that's how I see it

Different arrangement which Brian made an improvement upon the original. An improvement is not filler. A number one hit single is not filler. Are greatest hit compilations all filler? All the songs were released on prior albums, so they must be. So a song like Wouldn't It Be Nice is not filler on Pet Sounds, but is filler on any other album that it might appear on? This whole discourse is ridiculous. Sorry, but that is my opinion. If you disagree, sorry, that is how I see it.

Maybe he should have just rereleased Surfin Safari in a new arrangement every album

But seriously, I'm sorry if we can't see the others point but yes I think rehashing a song that's already been rearranged and rereleased is bad form. Number one hit or no. Each new studio album is an independent creation. It would be like a director remaking a scene from his very last movie into the new one. Or an author reusing a chapter from his last novel into his latest. Doesn't matter if it's the best scene/chapter/song ever, it's still poor craftsmanship. Something Brian was above by that point.

Greatest Hits are not the same thing. When you buy those, you know what you're getting--the hit singles repackaged into one convenient LP. Not the same as reusing tracks from the previous studio LP.

you've heard of a guy named George Lucas?

Thanks for proving my point.

well at least Brian didn't invent something like a Jar Jar Binks...and I think we all can be in agreement, in solidarity, with that...lol 

[kookadams]

<<I never called Summer Days a hodgepodge...its a great album! And just because side 2 of Today is the mellow side vs the fast songs on side 1 doesnt make it a lesser album. And I never said post67 BBs is crap, just hit&miss..wild honey is a solid lp I dont care what anyone says, same w 20/20; sunflower's strengths is in dennis's songs rather than brian's for the first and only time; surfs up & holland have some great songs and somw mediocre as well, agreed? 15bO is a solid sounding lp it just bummed some people out because it was all outtakes and covers. >>

Kook - would ya say MIU, LA and KTSA are all out-takes and covers, too?  And maybe Holland is the last real Beach Boys album?

Sign me curious.

I just say Holland was their last essential lp. I like 15bO but I understand why it gets flack. LA and KTSA get flack for obvious reasons.