My take on Mike vs Brian

[CenturyDeprived]

My 2 cents. From the RS story in 2012

"Mike's an entertainer," says Foskett. "Brian is an artist. There's room for both, but it's a fundamental difference, and pretty hard to reconcile.".....

and

One afternoon in February, the Beach Boys crowd into the control room at Ocean Way to listen to the suite. John Stamos, the actor (a serious Beach Boys fan who often performs with Mike Love's band), stands in the back, twirling his sunglasses. When the music ends, the room falls silent. Finally, Stamos breaks the ice. "Magical," he says. Love, sitting next to me on a leather couch, has another reaction, which he demonstrates by putting his fingers into the shape of a gun, placing it under his chin and shooting himself in the head. "It's brilliant, beautiful, but I didn't write it, so it doesn't have that silver cloud on the cumulus nimbus," he says. "It's more cumulus than I probably would do."


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-beach-boys-last-wave-20120621?page=3


Maybe he was there and saw Mike do it but after reading this in June of that year, is there any reason Brian would want to write with Mike? Probably the most insensitive action imaginable.

It is insensitive, and beyond "locker room" type of talk. It's just plain sh*tty. I know they josh with each other sometimes, but these aren't a pair of grizzled standup comedians f*cking with each other; one of them is proven to be highly sensitive, even if he can sometimes roll with tough talk. Summer's Gone is heartbreaking art, damnit. I say that in all sincerity. Can anyone conceive of a different collaborator having the nards to do/say that type of juvenile gunshot-miming action after hearing such a beautiful and heartfelt song? I can't. It's kinda sick, and I don't feel that's an exaggeration. It made me cringe the first time I read it in 2012. And to do it in front of an interviewer no less? No perceived problem at all with this? Those two have a twisted relationship.

I do not know how the RS interview could not leave all BB fans with a bad taste in their mouths. For people who don't question the sensitivity of that incident, I do wonder what words/actions/mimes would register as questionable on their sensitivity scale. Is *anything* par for the course with Mike? I know: maybe he could find another sick way to mime his feelings about how dark Lay Down Burden was, without Mike's silver cloud. Would that be going too far? That's only a step or two removed.

Next, maybe Brian could mock George Harrison's tragic passing right in front of Mike when he hears Mike's heartfelt tune, Pisces Brothers.

I just had the thought pop into my head that 20 years ago, Brian did make fun of Mike on camera, by having Al hold his nose while singing, and also the "senile" joking comment from the Stars & Stripes video. But I kinda feel like that type of thing is more in the past with Brian (being 20 years ago); I doubt he'd do that type of thing in public these days. I also think the suicide gesture is kicking the insensitive thing up several notches compared to those instances. IMHO.

Anyway... Even for those people who think that Brian can "take" that type of communication style from Mike without any problems whatsoever… Surely you can't blame people surrounding Brian for thinking that that type of communication is inappropriate or insensitive at best, and for wanting Brian to not be exposed to that type of crap. Maybe Brian can "take it", but I also don't think he'd dish out that type of response himself regarding sensitive art (should Mike sincerely attempt to write a very sensitive song).

The most important thing I take away from the Summer's Gone RS debacle: if Mike was left to his own devices and was not questioned by others, we'd have different and inferior "positive" lyrics to Til I Die and Summer's Gone, perhaps the two most moving songs in the catalog. It's good for him to have a checks and balances system if Mike is (or was) to be a part of Brian's most sensitive music, because dude hasn't been a cowriter on many deeply sensitive tunes in decades, and I don't think he has that touch anymore.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'm pretty sure that Melinda's liberation of Brian from Landy was just a case of hopping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I'm pretty sure that this is one of the most brainless observations in the entire history of this forum.

No... no that's unfair. I'm not pretty sure, or even probably sure: I'm certain. 

Is it really though?

Yes it REALLY is.

It's certainly down there

[petsite]

"Magical," he says. Love, sitting next to me on a leather couch, has another reaction, which he demonstrates by putting his fingers into the shape of a gun, placing it under his chin and shooting himself in the head. "It's brilliant, beautiful, but I didn't write it, so it doesn't have that silver cloud on the cumulus nimbus," he says. "It's more cumulus than I probably would do."


I have friends that do this to me all the time. And I to them. But if an outsider did it (and has), I would say "What is your issue??". But people I know, I just laugh or ask "you don't like it?" So Mike gets a pass from me on that. And also, let me say this. I don't know Mike Love. Not many do. BUT, as a 56 year old person with extensive dealings with all types of people, those who want all positivity and no negatives in their art, what ever that may be, usually have enough negatives in their lives to want a release from that.  Mike is DRIVEN. Always trying to please......someone. Reminds me a friend whom I watched twist into knots when his mother was visiting him and she said "Have you seen your brother's new house. Its so nice. Why can't you have a big house like that?" He tripped over himself trying to explain that he was working on it. Sad.

[Cam Mott]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think Scott Bennet has managed to get in the room alone with Brian to write.  Brian goes to the deli on his own.  I'm sure if he had any desire to write/visit Mike he would do so.  

And if Brian doesn't have that desire, he should quit telling Mike he does. IF that is true, I could see how it might be the source of some of Mike's suspicions about "those around Brian". Brian keeps saying he wants to do this with you but somehow it doesn't happen. Pure speculation.

When did Brian tell Mike he wanted to write with him, Cam? Your statement suggests he's still saying that, but I don't recall a single interview or public statement within the last nine years or so in which BW said he wanted to write new songs with Mike. Record with him, yes. Tour with him, yes. Otherwise, I'm stumped. Might you have a link?

As I remember it has been over the past 20 some years and as recent as pre-C50. One I seem to remember was at a Thanksgiving Brian and Mike shared, one I think was when they were together on top of Capitol maybe, and another was during the pre-C50 discussions I think. Then he did ask Mike to write with him during TWGMTR right? I don't think it is in Brian interviews, it is in Mike interviews I believe.

[job]

I'm pretty sure that Melinda's liberation of Brian from Landy was just a case of hopping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I'm pretty sure that this is one of the most brainless observations in the entire history of this forum.

No... no that's unfair. I'm not pretty sure, or even probably sure: I'm certain.  

Is it really though?

Yes it REALLY is.

I keep forgetting about the ridiculous myopia in this forum.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

AGD - damn I love being a Beach Boys fan! Has anything changed in the last 30+ years? Weren't we having the same Mike/Brian squabbles back then (meaning US = fans, not you and I). Nothing ever changes.

Indeed, it was ever thus, the main difference being that back in they day - that is, pre-internet - our disagreements and debates were far more civilised. Trolls, f*ckwits and sh*tweasels were yet to evolve (or should that be devolve ?). It was a simpler, better time. Damn, but I miss it. The land of lost content. There were giants in those days, real fans. Now, we get mental midgets. It's enough to make the Pope cuss.

Yeah, it must be an insurmountable bitch when folks here don't buy into your own spin. And, as is crass as it is, your deridingly incessant insults are infamously  smothered in your usual blend of arrogance. Run away from it as far and as fast as you can but you easily qualify for being as much a part of the problem as anyone. Has " fuckwits, shitweasels, mental midgets" become your rosetta stone for how far you've evolved? Or should that be devolved?  

[bossaroo]

"It's more cumulus than I probably would do."

such an idiotic statement.

Mike trying to sound poetic and just coming off like an ass. per usual

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'm pretty sure that Melinda's liberation of Brian from Landy was just a case of hopping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I'm pretty sure that this is one of the most brainless observations in the entire history of this forum.

No... no that's unfair. I'm not pretty sure, or even probably sure: I'm certain.  

Is it really though?

Yes it REALLY is.

I keep forgetting about the ridiculous myopia in this forum.

I dunno...with a statement as out of line as yours was, I'm surprised they weren't harsher . Even the biggest anti-Melinda person wouldn't imply she was worse than landy

[SMiLE Brian]

From a idiotic man. Mike, thank BW for once.....

[SMiLE Brian]

Anybody saying Melinda is worse than Landy are a complete nutcase.

[Cyncie]

"It's more cumulus than I probably would do."

such an idiotic statement.

Mike trying to sound poetic and just coming off like an ass. per usual

Mike used to be a pretty good wordsmith. These days, I think he uses complicated words to try and reinforce that point. Problem is, he often uses them awkwardly (as in this instance) or misuses them altogether, as in his frequent misuse of the word "alliteration" to describe things that aren't.

[Moon Dawg]

My 2 cents. From the RS story in 2012

"Mike's an entertainer," says Foskett. "Brian is an artist. There's room for both, but it's a fundamental difference, and pretty hard to reconcile.".....

and

One afternoon in February, the Beach Boys crowd into the control room at Ocean Way to listen to the suite. John Stamos, the actor (a serious Beach Boys fan who often performs with Mike Love's band), stands in the back, twirling his sunglasses. When the music ends, the room falls silent. Finally, Stamos breaks the ice. "Magical," he says. Love, sitting next to me on a leather couch, has another reaction, which he demonstrates by putting his fingers into the shape of a gun, placing it under his chin and shooting himself in the head. "It's brilliant, beautiful, but I didn't write it, so it doesn't have that silver cloud on the cumulus nimbus," he says. "It's more cumulus than I probably would do."


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-beach-boys-last-wave-20120621?page=3


Maybe he was there and saw Mike do it but after reading this in June of that year, is there any reason Brian would want to write with Mike? Probably the most insensitive action imaginable.

It is very insensitive, and beyond any defensible "locker room" type of talk. That's just plain sh*tty. It is. These aren't a pair of grizzled standup comedians f*cking with each other; one of them is proven to be highly sensitive, even if he can sometimes roll with tough talk. Summer's Gone is heartbreaking art, damnit. I say that in all sincerity. Can anyone conceive of a different collaborator having the nards to do/say that type of juvenile gunshot-miming action after hearing such a beautiful and heartfelt song? I can't. It's kinda sick, and I don't feel that's an exaggeration. It made me cringe the first time I read it in 2012. And to do it in front of an interviewer no less? No perceived problem at all with this?

I do not know how the RS interview could not leave all BB fans with a bad taste in their mouths. For people who don't question the sensitivity of that incident, I do wonder what words/actions/mimes would register as questionable on their sensitivity scale. Is *anything* par for the course with Mike? I know: maybe he could find another sick way to mime his feelings about how dark Lay Down Burden was, without Mike's silver cloud. Would that be going too far? That's only a step or two removed.

Next, maybe Brian could mock George Harrison's tragic passing right in front of Mike when he hears Mike's heartfelt tune, Pisces Brothers.

Anyway... Even for those people who think that Brian can "take" that type of communication style from Mike without any problems whatsoever… Surely you can't blame people surrounding Brian for thinking that that type of communication is inappropriate or insensitive at best, and for wanting Brian to not be exposed to that type of crap. Maybe Brian can "take it", but I also don't think he'd dish out that type of response himself, and that says something to me. He's been taking insensitive crap since he was a kid, and laughing about it.

If Mike was left to his own devices and was not questioned by others, we'd have different and inferior "positive" lyrics to Til I Die and "Summer's Gone", perhaps the two most moving songs in the catalog. It's good for him to have a checks and balances system if he is (or was) to be a part of Brian's most sensitive music, because dude hasn't been a cowriter on many deeply sensitive tunes in decades.

 Who won? It ended up on the record as Brian intended, right?

[18thofMay]

Anybody saying Melinda is worse than Landy are a complete nutcase.

And add to that someone that enjoys throwing petrol on a fire.

[CenturyDeprived]

 Who won? It ended up on the record as Brian intended, right?

As far as I know, yes. Although, Brian from what I read wanted the album to be called "Summer's Gone" (which I think is much more poignant), which Mike objected to the "negativity" of... so that portion of Brian's vision was unfortunately compromised. Not as bad as it could've been, with the song being butchered with upbeat lyrics though. Probably because some meddling "outsider" stepped in, or perhaps Brian just put his foot down, Summer's Gone (the song) came out unscathed. Good old Jon Bon Jovi - I never knew he had it in him.

[donald]

 Brian goes to the deli on his own.  I'm sure if he had any desire to write/visit Mike he would do so.

Call me picky, call me pedantic (but don't call me late for dinner...) but if Brian was suddenly seized with the desire to visit Mike, it's a bit more than a quick once around the block: Mike lives in Incline Village, Nevada. 465 miles, a seven hour drive.  

That said, I can see no reason why he'd want to anyway. So, the mootest of moot points.

Probably.

Andrew, I think a short flight to the Reno Tahoe airport and a short limo ride to the Incline area of Tahoe would be a breeze if your people were handling the arrangements.    they could drive Mike's Bentley down to a remote overlook on the lake and toss around some song ideas.

[Wirestone]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think Scott Bennet has managed to get in the room alone with Brian to write.  Brian goes to the deli on his own.  I'm sure if he had any desire to write/visit Mike he would do so.  

And if Brian doesn't have that desire, he should quit telling Mike he does. IF that is true, I could see how it might be the source of some of Mike's suspicions about "those around Brian". Brian keeps saying he wants to do this with you but somehow it doesn't happen. Pure speculation.

When did Brian tell Mike he wanted to write with him, Cam? Your statement suggests he's still saying that, but I don't recall a single interview or public statement within the last nine years or so in which BW said he wanted to write new songs with Mike. Record with him, yes. Tour with him, yes. Otherwise, I'm stumped. Might you have a link?

As I remember it has been over the past 20 some years and as recent as pre-C50. One I seem to remember was at a Thanksgiving Brian and Mike shared, one I think was when they were together on top of Capitol maybe, and another was during the pre-C50 discussions I think. Then he did ask Mike to write with him during TWGMTR right? I don't think it is in Brian interviews, it is in Mike interviews I believe.

On top of the Capitol building, he asked Mike to write lyrics for an already composed tune.

Which Mike refused to do.

As to the other cases, without documentation, I'm afraid I can give much credit to your statement. If they're just coming from Mike, though, they're scarcely impartial reports.

[Empire Of Love]

I'm pretty sure that Melinda's liberation of Brian from Landy was just a case of hopping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I'm pretty sure that this is one of the most brainless observations in the entire history of this forum.

No... no that's unfair. I'm not pretty sure, or even probably sure: I'm certain.  

You know you are fuct when the guy accused of being on Mike's payroll to spread anti-Brian/Melinda sentiment tells you that your anti-Melinda statement is "one of the most brainless observations in the entire history of this forum."

Mods, seriously, this kind of slander, against a band members family member, with zero basis in fact, should not be tolerated.  If Mike or Brian says or does something crazy it's fair game.  Hell, if Melinda said or did something crazy it's fair game.  But this is a baseless accusation as it equates Brian's loving wife with the evil Eugene Landy.  Someone please call this guy out if it hasn't happened already.

EoL

[Komera]

AGD - damn I love being a Beach Boys fan! Has anything changed in the last 30+ years? Weren't we having the same Mike/Brian squabbles back then (meaning US = fans, not you and I). Nothing ever changes.

I know I'm late coming to the table, but I just wanted to muse.  At least for ME there's been significant changes in the past 30 years.  About this time 30 years ago I would have been dreading 2nd Grade, and knowing only the name of the BB band plus a few overplayed songs.  Sometimes you guys think back to concerts, events, albums, and articles that are older than I, and I wind up feeling like a kid standing on the periphery of a group of grown-ups having a deep conversation.  My own personal view of the BB in general has turned into a wake-up call with each twist and turn new to me.  The very first thing I knew of them was red white and blue, and that was an absolute wonderful time to be just starting to learn how to be patriotic along with every school child.  But from then on for me it's been a series of learning something that is already long past, but wishing it wasn't true and chiding myself that it's already long past so I'd better just accept it.  Yeah, at least for me there's been significant changes these past 30 years.

[Moon Dawg]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think Scott Bennet has managed to get in the room alone with Brian to write.  Brian goes to the deli on his own.  I'm sure if he had any desire to write/visit Mike he would do so.  

And if Brian doesn't have that desire, he should quit telling Mike he does. IF that is true, I could see how it might be the source of some of Mike's suspicions about "those around Brian". Brian keeps saying he wants to do this with you but somehow it doesn't happen. Pure speculation.

When did Brian tell Mike he wanted to write with him, Cam? Your statement suggests he's still saying that, but I don't recall a single interview or public statement within the last nine years or so in which BW said he wanted to write new songs with Mike. Record with him, yes. Tour with him, yes. Otherwise, I'm stumped. Might you have a link?

As I remember it has been over the past 20 some years and as recent as pre-C50. One I seem to remember was at a Thanksgiving Brian and Mike shared, one I think was when they were together on top of Capitol maybe, and another was during the pre-C50 discussions I think. Then he did ask Mike to write with him during TWGMTR right? I don't think it is in Brian interviews, it is in Mike interviews I believe.

On top of the Capitol building, he asked Mike to write lyrics for an already composed tune.

Which Mike refused to do.

As to the other cases, without documentation, I'm afraid I can give much credit to your statement. If they're just coming from Mike, though, they're scarcely impartial reports.

 Is the top of the Capitol building Mike Love's room? I think not. 

[Cam Mott]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think Scott Bennet has managed to get in the room alone with Brian to write.  Brian goes to the deli on his own.  I'm sure if he had any desire to write/visit Mike he would do so. 

And if Brian doesn't have that desire, he should quit telling Mike he does. IF that is true, I could see how it might be the source of some of Mike's suspicions about "those around Brian". Brian keeps saying he wants to do this with you but somehow it doesn't happen. Pure speculation.

When did Brian tell Mike he wanted to write with him, Cam? Your statement suggests he's still saying that, but I don't recall a single interview or public statement within the last nine years or so in which BW said he wanted to write new songs with Mike. Record with him, yes. Tour with him, yes. Otherwise, I'm stumped. Might you have a link?

As I remember it has been over the past 20 some years and as recent as pre-C50. One I seem to remember was at a Thanksgiving Brian and Mike shared, one I think was when they were together on top of Capitol maybe, and another was during the pre-C50 discussions I think. Then he did ask Mike to write with him during TWGMTR right? I don't think it is in Brian interviews, it is in Mike interviews I believe.

On top of the Capitol building, he asked Mike to write lyrics for an already composed tune.

Which Mike refused to do.

As to the other cases, without documentation, I'm afraid I can give much credit to your statement. If they're just coming from Mike, though, they're scarcely impartial reports.

The Capitol incident has Brian saying he wants to write with Mike, so I guess that is one to my point. He asked Mike to write with him for TWGMTR so that's two to my point. You won't accept the rest on so I guess we are done at 2 and 0.

[GhostyTMRS]

My 2 cents. From the RS story in 2012

 "It's more cumulus than I probably would do."

Wait! Did Mike mean "Summer's Gone" is "probably" more cumulus than he would do, using the word "probably" to suggest the he's leaving the door open for more cumulus?

With apologies to CD and Cam. 

[Cam Mott]

My 2 cents. From the RS story in 2012

 "It's more cumulus than I probably would do."

Wait! Did Mike mean "Summer's Gone" is "probably" more cumulus than he would do, using the word "probably" to suggest the he's leaving the door open for more cumulus?

With apologies to CD and Cam. 

Very likely...Almost certainly...he must mean he now renounces his long touted positivity and is now embracing the cumulus.   

[CenturyDeprived]

My 2 cents. From the RS story in 2012

 "It's more cumulus than I probably would do."

Wait! Did Mike mean "Summer's Gone" is "probably" more cumulus than he would do, using the word "probably" to suggest the he's leaving the door open for more cumulus?

With apologies to CD and Cam. 

 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

My 2 cents. From the RS story in 2012

 "It's more cumulus than I probably would do."

Wait! Did Mike mean "Summer's Gone" is "probably" more cumulus than he would do, using the word "probably" to suggest the he's leaving the door open for more cumulus?

With apologies to CD and Cam. 

The answer seems somewhat cloudy...

[Jim V.]

 Who won? It ended up on the record as Brian intended, right?

As far as I know, yes. Although, Brian from what I read wanted the album to be called "Summer's Gone" (which I think is much more poignant), which Mike objected to the "negativity" of... so that portion of Brian's vision was unfortunately compromised. Not as bad as it could've been, with the song being butchered with upbeat lyrics though. Probably because some meddling "outsider" stepped in, or perhaps Brian just put his foot down, Summer's Gone (the song) came out unscathed. Good old Jon Bon Jovi - I never knew he had it in him.

Actually, Brian ended up changing it from Summer's Gone to That's Why God Made The Radio not because of any complaint from Mike (as far as we know), but because after having so much fun working with the guys again, he decided it might not be the last Beach Boys album after all. This is per Joe Thomas in an interview from the summer of 2012.

But then Mike decided a few months later that it probably will be. If you get my drift.