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Author Topic: My take on Mike vs Brian  (Read 24107 times)
Lonely Summer
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« on: June 16, 2015, 10:29:37 AM »

I think Mike probably feels that Melinda, and Brian's "handlers", have limited his access to Brian in recent years - specifically his request to be alone in a room with his cousin to write songs. In that respect, it's no different than the Landy years. But the rest of you probably have a different take on this situation. Probably.
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ontor pertawst
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2015, 10:30:41 AM »

Get the popcorn ready, boys.
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dombanzai
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2015, 10:40:44 AM »

From what I've heard, Mike's wife is pretty domineering as well...
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2015, 10:44:48 AM »

Before this thread devolves, I think there's some truth to the OP's statement.

Regarding Mike and Brian writing music, there are three songs on TWGMTR that credit Mike and Brian (among others) - Isn't It Time, Spring Vacation, and Beaches in Mind.  Does anybody know the extent of Brian and Mike's contributions to these songs?  Were they Brian / Joe Thomas songs that Mike tweaked a lyric to, thus earning a credit?  Maybe Brian and Joe instrumental tracks that Mike separately wrote lyrics for?  Maybe Mike ideas that Brian arranged at a later date?  

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sea of tunes
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 10:45:26 AM »

There's probably something to that.  But I think most of it, at the core, can be boiled down to...  'but, I'm a genius too'.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2015, 10:49:00 AM »

Before this thread devolves, I think there's some truth to the OP's statement.

Regarding Mike and Brian writing music, there are three songs on TWGMTR that credit Mike and Brian (among others) - Isn't It Time, Spring Vacation, and Beaches in Mind.  Does anybody know the extent of Brian and Mike's contributions to these songs?  Were they Brian / Joe Thomas songs that Mike tweaked a lyric to, thus earning a credit?  Maybe Brian and Joe instrumental tracks that Mike separately wrote lyrics for?  Maybe Mike ideas that Brian arranged at a later date?  



Mike supplied the lyric to "Spring Vacation" at Brian's request: the other two... not a clue. Anyone ?
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Wirestone
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2015, 11:00:02 AM »

Before this thread devolves, I think there's some truth to the OP's statement.

Regarding Mike and Brian writing music, there are three songs on TWGMTR that credit Mike and Brian (among others) - Isn't It Time, Spring Vacation, and Beaches in Mind.  Does anybody know the extent of Brian and Mike's contributions to these songs?  Were they Brian / Joe Thomas songs that Mike tweaked a lyric to, thus earning a credit?  Maybe Brian and Joe instrumental tracks that Mike separately wrote lyrics for?  Maybe Mike ideas that Brian arranged at a later date?  



Mike supplied the lyric to "Spring Vacation" at Brian's request: the other two... not a clue. Anyone ?

Brian had also already written some of the "Spring Vacation" chorus lyrics -- IIRC, the "hallelujah" bit, and possibly the "easy money" line, too.

As for "Isn't It Time," I believe that was one of the few (only?) TWGMTR songs written at the session.  Millas and Peterik brought in the percussion / uke riff, and Brian, Mike and Joe built the rest of the song around it on the spot. I think this is one of the reasons Mike pushed the song so much, and supported the alternate version -- it was a song on the album where he had real buy-in from the beginning.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2015, 11:01:10 AM »

I think Mike probably feels that Melinda, and Brian's "handlers", have limited his access to Brian in recent years - specifically his request to be alone in a room with his cousin to write songs. In that respect, it's no different than the Landy years. But the rest of you probably have a different take on this situation. Probably.

I'm sure he feels that way.

The question, though, is whether it's true. From all evidence, including the testimony of folks who know BW firsthand, it's not.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 11:24:10 AM by Wirestone » Logged
KDS
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2015, 11:10:56 AM »

Before this thread devolves, I think there's some truth to the OP's statement.

Regarding Mike and Brian writing music, there are three songs on TWGMTR that credit Mike and Brian (among others) - Isn't It Time, Spring Vacation, and Beaches in Mind.  Does anybody know the extent of Brian and Mike's contributions to these songs?  Were they Brian / Joe Thomas songs that Mike tweaked a lyric to, thus earning a credit?  Maybe Brian and Joe instrumental tracks that Mike separately wrote lyrics for?  Maybe Mike ideas that Brian arranged at a later date?  



Mike supplied the lyric to "Spring Vacation" at Brian's request: the other two... not a clue. Anyone ?

Brian had also already written some of the "Spring Vacation" chorus lyrics -- IIRC, the "hallelujah" bit, and possibly the "easy money" line, too.

As for "Isn't It Time," I believe that was one of the few (only?) TWGMTR songs written at the session.  Millas and Peterik brought in the percussion / uke riff, and Brian, Mike and Joe built the rest of the song around it on the spot. I think this is one of the reasons Mike pushed the song so much, and supported the alternate version -- it was a song on the album where he had real buy-in from the beginning.

Maybe this is a question for a different thread, but what's the deal with the alternate version?  Were these lyrics that Mike, or whoever, decided to change before the C50 Tour started? 
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The Cincinnati Kid
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2015, 11:18:56 AM »

I think Mike probably feels that Melinda, and Brian's "handlers", have limited his access to Brian in recent years - specifically his request to be alone in a room with his cousin to write songs. In that respect, it's no different than the Landy years. But the rest of you probably have a different take on this situation. Probably.

I think there's definitely some truth to this.  Mike isn't the only one who has had this opinion.
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bossaroo
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2015, 11:22:29 AM »

did Brian and Mike ever write "alone in a room"? if so, has it happened since the 6os? we know the two of them never had the most amiable relationship, regardless of Landy, Melinda, "handlers", or whoever else.


I think it's just a lame excuse on Mike's part. he's not really interested in making new music. he's finally got everything exactly the way he wants it: he is the front and center star of the show, he's playing 95% hits and songs that are 25-50 years old, and he is essentially the head of the Beach Boys organization... he controls the name, the dates, and the deals.


I could be wrong. but if Mike really does just want time to get alone with his cousin, he is fooling himself if he thinks Melinda or anyone but Brian is keeping it from happening. Brian knows exactly what he wants at this stage in the game.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2015, 11:25:58 AM »

Again, though, Brian and Mike were on the road for dozens of dates in 2012. Brian was without Melinda or managers for large periods of time. If Mike ever wanted to work with Brian, or fool around with a song, all he had to do was go to Brian's dressing room and knock.

That didn't happen.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2015, 11:32:16 AM »

I think it's just a lame excuse on Mike's part. he's not really interested in making new music. he's finally got everything exactly the way he wants it: he is the front and center star of the show, he's playing 95% hits and songs that are 25-50 years old, and he is essentially the head of the Beach Boys organization... he controls the name, the dates, and the deals.


I could be wrong. but if Mike really does just want time to get alone with his cousin, he is fooling himself if he thinks Melinda or anyone but Brian is keeping it from happening. Brian knows exactly what he wants at this stage in the game.

Such certainty !  Such insight !!! Such insider knowledge !!!!!  No wonder it was so easy for you to get your name up on the video screen - you know who has the negatives, and where the bodies are buried. I bend my knee and bow my head in tribute, I am as nothing to your Olympian omniscience. All hail bossaroo !!   Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow

Probably...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 11:33:19 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2015, 12:07:42 PM »

I agree with bossaroo 100%. Mike is a bitter old man willing to blame anybody since BW won't work with him anymore.
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JakeH
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2015, 12:22:42 PM »

Before this thread devolves, I think there's some truth to the OP's statement.

Regarding Mike and Brian writing music, there are three songs on TWGMTR that credit Mike and Brian (among others) - Isn't It Time, Spring Vacation, and Beaches in Mind.  Does anybody know the extent of Brian and Mike's contributions to these songs?  Were they Brian / Joe Thomas songs that Mike tweaked a lyric to, thus earning a credit?  Maybe Brian and Joe instrumental tracks that Mike separately wrote lyrics for?  Maybe Mike ideas that Brian arranged at a later date?  



Mike supplied the lyric to "Spring Vacation" at Brian's request: the other two... not a clue. Anyone ?

Brian had also already written some of the "Spring Vacation" chorus lyrics -- IIRC, the "hallelujah" bit, and possibly the "easy money" line, too.

As for "Isn't It Time," I believe that was one of the few (only?) TWGMTR songs written at the session.  Millas and Peterik brought in the percussion / uke riff, and Brian, Mike and Joe built the rest of the song around it on the spot. I think this is one of the reasons Mike pushed the song so much, and supported the alternate version -- it was a song on the album where he had real buy-in from the beginning.

Jim Peterik put out a book recently. He devotes a few pages at the end to his association with Brian and the Beach Boys.  I believe that he basically says in that book that "Isn't It Time" originated with Millas, and then Peterik worked on it with him. Peterik doesn't it say it outright, but the strong implication is that a completed song of some kind was submitted to Brian and Mike, and then those two gave their opinions on the then-existing lyrics. Peterik says that the original lyric "isn't it time to catch another wave" was vetoed by Brian and Mike and was changed. I may not be relating this with 100% accuracy; check out Peterik's book for the exact wording.

For what it's worth, in the book (which I don't own, but quickly leafed through when I stumbled on it at a book sale) Peterik also offers the opinion that the remaining group members didn't want to do the reunion, and that Joe Thomas had to talk them all into it. Peterik says that this is because the Beach Boys "don't like each other," or something to that effect.

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bossaroo
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2015, 12:31:05 PM »

I think it's just a lame excuse on Mike's part. he's not really interested in making new music. he's finally got everything exactly the way he wants it: he is the front and center star of the show, he's playing 95% hits and songs that are 25-50 years old, and he is essentially the head of the Beach Boys organization... he controls the name, the dates, and the deals.


I could be wrong. but if Mike really does just want time to get alone with his cousin, he is fooling himself if he thinks Melinda or anyone but Brian is keeping it from happening. Brian knows exactly what he wants at this stage in the game.

Such certainty !  Such insight !!! Such insider knowledge !!!!!  No wonder it was so easy for you to get your name up on the video screen - you know who has the negatives, and where the bodies are buried. I bend my knee and bow my head in tribute, I am as nothing to your Olympian omniscience. All hail bossaroo !!   Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow

Probably...

settle down big guy, I never claimed to be certain of anything hence the use of phrases like "I think" and "I could be wrong". I do feel fairly certain however that Brian has no desire to be alone in a room with Mike Love, because... does ANYBODY??

and the only reason I got my name on the video screen is because Mike liked my photoshop of him shooting lightning bolts out of his fingers, apparently missing the joke altogether.

Probably...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 01:43:35 PM by bossaroo » Logged
Michael Edwards Love
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2015, 12:35:31 PM »

[Peterik says that the original lyric "isn't it time to catch another wave" was vetoed by Brian and Mike and was changed.

That would have been a very different song, but I actually like how that rolls off the tongue. It would have fit nicely in the track.
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2015, 12:36:20 PM »

Something something formula, something something baldness, something something drugs, something something probably, something something Cam's the worst to ever post here, something something Evan Landy, something something here goes twenty-five pages of nonsense.
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mikeddonn
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2015, 12:36:30 PM »

I think Mike probably feels that Melinda, and Brian's "handlers", have limited his access to Brian in recent years - specifically his request to be alone in a room with his cousin to write songs. In that respect, it's no different than the Landy years. But the rest of you probably have a different take on this situation. Probably.

I think there's definitely some truth to this.  Mike isn't the only one who has had this opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think Scott Bennet has managed to get in the room alone with Brian to write.  Brian goes to the deli on his own.  I'm sure if he had any desire to write/visit Mike he would do so.  I think it's absurd to liken it to the Landy years.  Brian doesn't have someone monitoring and videotaping everything he does.
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« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2015, 12:41:54 PM »

Mike probably has a deep resentment for Brian and the people around him. Probably blames Brian for how the public views him, Brian being the hero and Mike being the villain.

It really is sad but Mike and Brian have a relationship that's beyond repair.
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« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2015, 12:45:24 PM »

I've always interpreted Mike's wish to write with Brian "in a room" to be in a studio setting. They collaborated together in the early/mid-1960's in various studios, in the late 1960's in Brian's home studio, in 1972 in Holland, in 1974 at Caribou, in the mid-1970's at Brother Studio, in 1977 at M.I.U., and on and on.

It didn't/doesn't seem practical OR REALISTIC for Mike and Brian to write new material while on the road during C50.  There was so much going on - interviews, photo sessions, rehearsals, TV appearances, travel, and other distractions that crop up with such a major tour. Also, there were family members present for some of the tour and you couldn't really blame anyone for wanting to take it in and enjoy as much of the festivities as possible. And, not to single out Brian, but I used to wonder how he even held up physically for the duration of the tour. We know he had some back issues, but just the shock his system must've been going through to undertake such a long tour after NOT touring like that for decades. It's hard for me to imagine that writing new songs with Mike or anyone would've been feasible or any kind of a priority.

The following has absolutely nothing to do with condoning, agreeing with, or supporting anything that Dr. Landy did to and with Brian. But...while under the care of Eugene Landy, Brian Wilson:

- produced 15 Big Ones
- composed and produced The Beach Boys Love You
- performed at a few concerts in 1983
- performed at The D.C. Beach Party in 1984
- contributed to The Beach Boys 1985 album and accompanying videos
- performed with the group at Live Aid in 1985
- appeared with the group on various TV shows during 1985-86
- appeared on the "Rock & Roll To The Rescue" and "California Dreamin" recordings and videos
- contributed to the "Wipe Out" recording and video
- contributed to the Still Cruisin' album
- appeared with the group on Full House
- appeared with the group on the 1989 syndicated TV series, Endless Summer

I'm obviously missing a few contributions and appearances, however, during Dr. Landy's treatment, Brian was able to "walk that line" between being a Beach Boy and having a solo career. It was only after Landy was removed that Brian began to focus almost exclusively as a solo artist. I'm not saying why; you can come to your own conclusions. But, for some reason, Brian went from being a Beach Boy, albeit part-time, to NOT being one...
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« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2015, 12:46:25 PM »

 Brian goes to the deli on his own.  I'm sure if he had any desire to write/visit Mike he would do so.

Call me picky, call me pedantic (but don't call me late for dinner...) but if Brian was suddenly seized with the desire to visit Mike, it's a bit more than a quick once around the block: Mike lives in Incline Village, Nevada. 465 miles, a seven hour drive.  Grin

That said, I can see no reason why he'd want to anyway. So, the mootest of moot points.

Probably.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2015, 12:50:26 PM »


The following has absolutely nothing to do with condoning, agreeing with, or supporting anything that Dr. Landy did to and with Brian. But...while under the care of Eugene Landy, Brian Wilson:

- produced 15 Big Ones
- composed and produced The Beach Boys Love You
- performed at a few concerts in 1983
- performed at The D.C. Beach Party in 1984
- contributed to The Beach Boys 1985 album and accompanying videos
- performed with the group at Live Aid in 1985
- appeared with the group on various TV shows during 1985-86
- appeared on the "Rock & Roll To The Rescue" and "California Dreamin" recordings and videos
- contributed to the "Wipe Out" recording and video
- contributed to the Still Cruisin' album
- appeared with the group on Full House
- appeared with the group on the 1989 syndicated TV series, Endless Summer

I'm obviously missing a few contributions and appearances...

Um... like two solo albums, one released one (thankfully) not ?  Grin
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« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2015, 12:51:45 PM »

Again, though, Brian and Mike were on the road for dozens of dates in 2012. Brian was without Melinda or managers for large periods of time. If Mike ever wanted to work with Brian, or fool around with a song, all he had to do was go to Brian's dressing room and knock.

That didn't happen.

I thought he saw first hand what happens when Brian is forced to write while on tour?
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« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2015, 12:54:41 PM »

Jim Peterik put out a book recently. He devotes a few pages at the end to his association with Brian and the Beach Boys.  I believe that he basically says in that book that "Isn't It Time" originated with Millas, and then Peterik worked on it with him. Peterik doesn't it say it outright, but the strong implication is that a completed song of some kind was submitted to Brian and Mike, and then those two gave their opinions on the then-existing lyrics. Peterik says that the original lyric "isn't it time to catch another wave" was vetoed by Brian and Mike and was changed. I may not be relating this with 100% accuracy; check out Peterik's book for the exact wording.

For what it's worth, in the book (which I don't own, but quickly leafed through when I stumbled on it at a book sale) Peterik also offers the opinion that the remaining group members didn't want to do the reunion, and that Joe Thomas had to talk them all into it. Peterik says that this is because the Beach Boys "don't like each other," or something to that effect.


Depending on who the “remaining members” are that Peterik is referencing, he could be either spot-on or completely off in that characterization.

There was another recent Peterik interview (published June 11, including some discussion of his work with Brian and the BB’s) where he appears to have been muzzled (or is muzzling himself on that topic):

Whitman: This is supposed to be Brian’s vision of what would have been the next Beach Boys album, correct? He made
That’s Why God Made the Radio and then he wasn’t in The Beach Boys anymore. What’s up with that?

Peterik: I can’t talk about that, but anyway … how about those Bears?


From: http://www.technologytell.com/entertainment/63061/true-survivor-songwritermelodic-rocker-jim-peterik-interviewed/
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