So Tough/Holland=Barely any Brian on them and yet..fave albums of many here.

[bluesno1fann]

Just because they are Beach Boys without major involvement from Brian Wilson doesn't mean that they automatically aren't as good. Both great albums.

[kookadams]

I take it even further than that. My favorite BB albums are essentially Surfer Girl through Friends. There is still much that I enjoy in the later albums (particularly 20/20 through Love You), but I don't hold even Sunflower in the same regard as, say, All Summer Long. I appreciate the other guys, I love Pacific Ocean Blue, but for me the BB pinnacle is always when the primary sound and sensibility is coming from "classic" Brian.

surfer girl thru 20/20 for sure, friends is a decent lp cuz a little bird, without it not the strongest record...

[Ron]

Sometimes I think this board has slipped into bizzarro land. 

[drbeachboy]

Sometimes I think this board has slipped into bizzarro land. 

You ain't shittin'! I love Brian's music and they were mostly the best tracks on the album, but Brian's participation slowed during those years and the rest of the guys picked up the slack. Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, Here She Comes, Cuddle Up, The Trader, Steamboat, Only With You and California are very good songs. I dare say a few even better than a couple of Brian's songs.

[Cool Cool Water]

Absolutely...I tend to think of them as one brilliant work. 

Totally agree. 

[Douchepool]

They're great albums. Not as much Brian? No problem. Hey, we could listen to Keepin' the Summer Alive...but who really wants to?

[orange22]

I really like both albums, but it's obvious that they are very different from the sound and style that made most of us fans in the first place (everything through '66 basically). But despite that, the harmonies (even the songs without Brian) are still incredible and that's what makes them true Beach Boys albums for me. "Leaving This Town" is one of my favorites from these albums (and terribly underrated I feel, but obviously irrelevant here), but if it was done by another band it might come off as more generic; however, when you take that gritty, soulful, "70s" sound and put the Beach Boys harmonies over the top...beautiful.

[TMinthePM]

Make It Good - clearly showing the influence of Hollywood, expressing a fragile, wounded, deep emotion openly expressed, nothing held back.

I can see James Dean, Natalie Wood and Sal Mineo at the abandoned mansion in Rebel Without a Cause.

Carl and the Passions - A Great Classic Rock Album.

[Lee Marshall]

Music changed...What music people were recording and what maturing 'boomers' were listening to was different.  Top 40 mattered less and less.... ... ...and less.  Hit singles were OK but successful albums were much better and "cooler"  CATP and Holland were emblematic of a new direction both LIVE and on record which Jack was working out for the group...and he assisted them.  It worked.  It sounded excellent.  The 2 1/2 minute 'ditty' was done.

and then...they got spooked.  Jack left.  Endless Bummer faked them out and all of a sudden we had 15 little ones and a top 40 hit and a half with a needessly editted Rock and Roll Music and It's OK.  After that?  Well...it all just kind of slowly dissolved and except for the odd sojourn back onto 'hit' radio...WE were all that was left to appreciate the various nuances.

There was never an album of NEW, never previously recorded, music released by the GROUP which can hold a candle to either of the albums shining in this spotlight...although TWGMTR tries hardest to impress...and actually contains some finer, more impressive moments.  W/O Brian...the album NEVER would have seen the light of day.  Back then?  The guys had to pitch in as Brian only had so much to contribute.  They did well.

[Lonely Summer]

I would have loved for the Beach Boys to continue what they did on So Tough and Holland; there was infinitely more promise in this direction than falling back on "Brian is a genius; come on Brian, write and produce us some hits". Sometimes I wish Carl and Dennis had just left in '77, and left Mike and Al to rot in oldies hell.

[Jonathan Blum]

I really like both albums, but it's obvious that they are very different from the sound and style that made most of us fans in the first place (everything through '66 basically).

I don't see why that's an issue one way or the other, really -- "Abbey Road" is at least as profoundly different from "Please Please Me".  :-)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[D409]

Am I the only person who thinks KTSA isn't actually that bad ?

[RiC]

Am I the only person who thinks KTSA isn't actually that bad ?

KTSA is awesome, with the exception of Endless Harmony, which is propably the worst song the BB ever recorded plus When Girls Get Together which is irritating as hell. But especially the title track, Some of Your Love, Living With a Heartache, Sunshine and Goin' On are all standout tracks.

[Mike's Beard]

Am I the only person who thinks KTSA isn't actually that bad ?

I like it all with the exception of When Girls Get Together which would have made for a wretched Sunflower track and sounds even worse here with it's glaring production and vocal differences.

[rasmus skotte]

'Barely any Brian'
When Holland includes one of Brian's true masterpieces: A miniature concept album/song cycle: Mount Vernon & Fairway (a fairy tale)!!!

[phirnis]

Am I the only person who thinks KTSA isn't actually that bad ?

I think that KTSA is a record that is actually less than the sum of its parts. Santa Ana Winds, Goin' On, Livin' with a Heartache, Oh Darlin', or When Girls Get Together are all pretty good on their own but somehow the album as a whole seems incredibly dull to me. It probably has to do with the overall sound, which I think is thin and unimaginative.

[Smilin Ed H]

Am I the only person who thinks KTSA isn't actually that bad ?

It sucks enormous amounts of ass - except for Santa Ana Winds.

[Lee Marshall]

It was better than most of the post Endless Bummer releases.  But still.  The Wikipedia "professional rating" of 1 /12 out of 5 doesn't seem too terribly off the mark compared to the body of work from Surfin USA to Holland and their subsequent Double Live Concert album.

While I'll accept that 8 of the 10 songs are anywhere from OK to pretty good...there really isn't anything jaw-droppingly great, unique or outstanding.  They were back to writing short little ditties again.  Only 'Living With a Heartache' was over 4 minutes.  That said...I was programming a radio station out west then and we played the title track, 'Living With a Heartache', and 'Goin' On'.  We played hits and album tracks...with some cool oldies.  2 of those 3 songs were also co-written by a local guy who grew up in the city...and I don't mean Carl.

[drbeachboy]

Am I the only person who thinks KTSA isn't actually that bad ?

I like it quite a bit. Sunshine and When Girls Get Together are only two that I am not too fond of.

[Douchepool]

Keepin' the Summer Alive is a band on autopilot, putting out something just to get something out. They should have just called it Keepin' Up with Contractual Obligations.

[Lee Marshall]

Keepin' the Summer Alive is a band on autopilot, putting out something just to get something out. They should have just called it Keepin' Up with Contractual Obligations.

That was WAY too often the case...post 1973...  Take 2 or 3...maybe 4 pretty decent songs and surround them with filler and covers.

[Douchepool]

I'd say the same about MIU and Still Cruisin'. LA not so much. The self-titled, not really. Summer in Paradise was Michael's idea...because allegedly the rest of the band were uninterested in recording.

[Hank Briarstem]

If my first wife's name wasn't Evelyn, it should have been. I recall that she shared a first name with our neighbor, who was her second cousin. I often confused the two. If I crawled into bed at night and heard a scream, I assumed I was in the wrong house.

I believe these little newlywed errors to have influenced Brian Wilson's "My Diane," though probably not. The song would likely have been called "My Evelyn" if such had been the case.

Holland is an album I loved upon its release and for many years thereafter, in large part because the music appealed to me. So Tough, on the other hand, left me cold upon its release - I required a parka to listen - and for quite a few years thereafter. But the latter has grown on me.

What this has to do with Evelyn - if that was indeed the name of either of the women - I haven't a clue. But I am certain my first wife wasn't named Marcella. Nor was our neighbor, her cousin.

A disk jockey in my hometown honored my request for "Sail on Sailor" one evening and apparently drew good audience response. The song was placed in heavy rotation, then in a large fruit bowl. The DJ began playing "California Saga" as well -- sometimes the trilogy and sometimes merely "California." At the latter choice, I raged impotently and often in the nude.

Oddly the two Holland tracks that have aged best in my mind are Dennis' "Steamboat" and "Only With You." Carl's "The Trader" has not fared as well, and I am not sure why -- then again, I am only vaguely aware of what I had for breakfast. Sausage was involved, as I recall, though not link.

Carl seems to have lost some of the Surf's Up momentum that gave us two brilliant compositions, "Long Promised Road" and especially "Feel Flows," which has aged most gracefully (I can't say the same for Evelyn or whatever her name was. She got the face she deserved, as they say - a mean, spiteful, straight razor totin' woman).

"Cuddle Up" did little for me upon it's release (the same could be said for Evelyn, or perhaps her name and that of her cousin was Trixie. It rings a bell). But I have come to view the song as a Beach Boys classic, somewhere in the lower half of their top 50.

I recall being put off by the pairing of Pet Sounds and So Tough, believing that the packaging betrayed a lack of confidence that would doom So Tough with the critics. Perhaps this colored my opinion at the time, though not my hair. I have never colored my hair and those who claim otherwise are merely jealous of my good fortune in genetics, at least in this one area.

I believe Mike Love was jealous not only of my thick locks but also of their resistance to the greying process. Proof of this can be found in "California Saga," which I believe to have been a clear and unambiguous message to me.

Sometime shortly after the release of Holland, I fell deeply in love with a ballet dancer from Chicago, though I didn't much care for her. My dalliance here is probably the reason the Boys lost their way in the subsequent years, and I accept the blame.

On the other hand, could Brian have conjured Love You had I remained with Evelyn/Trixie? Very likely not, as he never met the woman. Nor did he meet her cousin, as far as I know.

So all works out for the best, other than a serving of Brussels sprouts at a dinner party.

Honkin' down a gosh darn highway!

[donald]

Edit out a couple songs from holland and replace with a couple from CATP.   Then you have one super lp representative of that era.

As for KTSA, and I don't know why a Holland era thread went off on that tangent, I have always TRIED to like it but could only accomplish that for a couple of songs.   I used to like the cover but not so much these days..........

Brian was sufficiently involved in the Holland period to leave his mark on the album in a number of spots.    These are the Ricky/Blondie STUDIO albums.    They represent a key period for the band.

[Sheriff John Stone]

One of the biggest mysteries for me in the group's history, not just from the CATP/Holland period, but from 20/20 through Holland, was the scarcity of Brian Wilson lead vocals. After Friends in 1968, it's almost like Brian disappeared as a lead vocalist. I'm not referring to a line here or a word there, but a full blown solo lead vocal. On the five studio albums from 1969-1973, he almost appeared to be hiding vocally, even on his own songs. I've never heard or read why. It's not that his voice was shot...yet.