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Author Topic: Did C50 have any effect on the film Love & Mercy, and vice versa?  (Read 12490 times)
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« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2015, 10:31:58 AM »


Please don't speculate about that which we haven't read.  The pseudo bio didn't treat the band well. And, now we know why.  Landy was building his own band.  Too bad he didn't share a cell with Manson.  

Truly with all due respect, I have no problem speculating. That’s a HUGE part of what we do here, and implicit in a discussion of a book that *hasn’t been released yet* is that it’s all speculation.

I don’t want to turn this into a thread about Mike’s upcoming book.

Oh, I think you would love to turn this into a thread about Mike's upcoming book. But, there's plenty of time - and hundreds of pages - for that. In the meantime, speculate away!

However, I am reminded how we were scolded and reprimanded for speculating about NPP based on a nine second snippet of a song, or for speculating about Brian's upcoming tour based on one of his "meat and potatoes"  Roll Eyes shows, or for speculating about the movie based on some stills, trailers, or interviews from the participants, and for speculating about Larry Fine's upcoming biography which hasn't been written yet.

But that's Brian Wilson, and you want to speculate about Mike Love, so that's OK. There's one standard for Brian Wilson, and another standard...for everybody else.

Please feel free to read any or all of my history of posts on NPP. I defended those who gave the album negative reviews, and those who claimed they heard autotune. Read my review of the album on my blog; it’s far from a glowing review.

I thought (and posted as such) that a few defensive folks were being way too harsh on those who were posting thoughtful, non-trollish criticisms of NPP. I had numerous go-arounds on the autotune topic, I thought and still feel it’s on the album.

Not every person who criticizes Mike lacks the ability to criticize Brian.


I can vouch for that.

Sheriff, you picked on the wrong member to go after for your normal 'double standard' rant. It's getting old and tiresome. Seriously, if you don't like it here, leave.
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« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2015, 10:32:45 AM »

I don't see any connection between C50 & this new film (& vice versa). This thread makes no sense.

So you are saying that if C50 had not imploded, and if Mike got to write in a room with Brian and was happily still in some semblance of a functioning musical and/or personal working relationship with Brian, that L&M would have been released as the same film that it currently is (without pushback from Mike regarding his portrayal)? I'm not sure I see that as plausible, and I don't think you can simply remove elements (like C50) from being part of the overall equation of why some things happen and why some things don't. That's a gross oversimplification; a relationship (or lack thereof) between two people is going to matter and make a difference one way or another on a biopic, IMHO. Don't you think?  

Or to put it another way; if you think that L&M would have been released exactly as it was, and C50 had continued past 2012, the way Brian wanted it to... would the film in its current form not possibly help put an end to the reunion? Mind you... I am NOT saying the film is divisive; I think it's fair, honest, and quite brilliant. I just hypothesize that Mike would make a stink over him possibly feeling it's a divisive film if he were to ever see the film, because the truth hurts, and I don't think he wants to see Brian's own truth onscreen if it makes Mike not look good.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 10:40:12 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2015, 10:42:50 AM »

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« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2015, 10:45:34 AM »

I don't see any connection between C50 & this new film (& vice versa). This thread makes no sense.

So you are saying that if C50 had not imploded, and if Mike got to write in a room with Brian and was happily still in some semblance of a functioning musical and/or personal working relationship with Brian, that L&M would have been released as the same film that it currently is (without pushback from Mike regarding his portrayal)? I'm not sure I see that as plausible, and I don't think you can simply remove elements (like C50) from being part of the overall equation of why some things happen and why some things don't. That's a gross oversimplification; a relationship (or lack thereof) between two people is going to matter and make a difference one way or another on a biopic, IMHO. Don't you think? 

Or to put it another way; if you think that L&M would have been released exactly as it was, and C50 had continued past 2012, the way Brian wanted it to... would the film in its current form not possibly help put an end to the reunion? Mind you... I am NOT saying the film is divisive; I think it's fair, honest, and quite brilliant. I just hypothesize that Mike would make a stink over him possibly feeling it's a divisive film if he were to ever see the film, because the truth hurts, and I don't think he wants to see Brian's own truth onscreen if it makes Mike not look good.
Was there pushback from Mike? I haven't heard a word.
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« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2015, 10:47:31 AM »

I think if the C50 had continued, L&M wouldn't have happened, at least not in the form we know. Certainly the books and NPP wouldn't have happened.

Making the band a true, ongoing concern would have entailed sacrifices on all fronts to keep everyone happy.
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« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2015, 10:49:51 AM »

I think the only change in Love and Mercy had the C50 lineup stayed together would've been in the epilogue just before the closing credits. 

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« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2015, 10:52:23 AM »

I don't see any connection between C50 & this new film (& vice versa). This thread makes no sense.

So you are saying that if C50 had not imploded, and if Mike got to write in a room with Brian and was happily still in some semblance of a functioning musical and/or personal working relationship with Brian, that L&M would have been released as the same film that it currently is (without pushback from Mike regarding his portrayal)? I'm not sure I see that as plausible, and I don't think you can simply remove elements (like C50) from being part of the overall equation of why some things happen and why some things don't. That's a gross oversimplification; a relationship (or lack thereof) between two people is going to matter and make a difference one way or another on a biopic, IMHO. Don't you think?  

Or to put it another way; if you think that L&M would have been released exactly as it was, and C50 had continued past 2012, the way Brian wanted it to... would the film in its current form not possibly help put an end to the reunion? Mind you... I am NOT saying the film is divisive; I think it's fair, honest, and quite brilliant. I just hypothesize that Mike would make a stink over him possibly feeling it's a divisive film if he were to ever see the film, because the truth hurts, and I don't think he wants to see Brian's own truth onscreen if it makes Mike not look good.
Was there pushback from Mike? I haven't heard a word.

No, because there appears to be no current relationship between Mike and Brian / Melinda. My point is that if there was any kind of relationship where the people were in fact meeting, talking, seeing each other (as would be the case if C50 had continued), there would almost certainly have been some pushback, IMHO.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 10:55:03 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2015, 10:54:06 AM »

I think if the C50 had continued, L&M wouldn't have happened, at least not in the form we know. Certainly the books and NPP wouldn't have happened.

Making the band a true, ongoing concern would have entailed sacrifices on all fronts to keep everyone happy.

Exactly.
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« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2015, 11:33:49 AM »

What could Mike (or Al) do now that they could not do if they had discussed continuing C50 after the set end date? Or vice versa?
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« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2015, 11:40:23 AM »

Please feel free to read any or all of my history of posts on NPP. I defended those who gave the album negative reviews, and those who claimed they heard autotune. Read my review of the album on my blog; it’s far from a glowing review.

I thought (and posted as such) that a few defensive folks were being way too harsh on those who were posting thoughtful, non-trollish criticisms of NPP. I had numerous go-arounds on the autotune topic, I thought and still feel it’s on the album.


So........tough.
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« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2015, 11:41:34 AM »

Seriously, if you don't like it here, leave.

+1
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« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2015, 11:50:19 AM »

What could Mike (or Al) do now that they could not do if they had discussed continuing C50 after the set end date? Or vice versa?

It’s pretty simple, I think. It’s not impossible, but it is very difficult to do a career-spanning autobiography where you “tell it like it is” about all of your colleagues, while you’re actively touring and/or recording with those guys. It can be done, and has been done. I’m also not saying Mike or Brian are going to do or would do some sort of trashy, exclusively dirt-dishing book. But a lot of (auto)biographical films and books are done when the person(s) in questions are retired and off on their own, and/or when some, most, or all of the principals are deceased.

But look at Brian’s 1991 book. He wasn’t even particularly active within the group, and yet the fallout from the book led to an even *further* estrangement from the band (as I said, other factors were at play as well). After that book, Brian didn’t even do his occasional gig with the band where he pops up on stage and sings the opening line to “Sloop John B” and the bridge to “Surfer Girl” until, I believe, 1995.

I’ve heard reports on the scene that that Grammy Museum thing the guys did in 2012 was awkward and some folks sensed tension, and that was while they still had a few gigs to go and hadn’t even dished dirt on each other, but rather Mike simply had announced he was going back to his own thing. So imagine during the middle of another reunion tour, any of the guys writing a book where there are unflattering references (justified and/or not justified) to their bandmates. Such books are written, and even when inflammatory, the members will eventually get past it (e.g. the guys eventually working with Brian again in the mid-late 90’s). But it doesn’t always happen while everybody is still together and happy.

I don’t think C50 itself necessarily influenced the L&M film or autobiographies. But the abrupt ending to their reunion has undoubtedly influenced at least the timing and motivation behind some of what will be found in the books (and perhaps at least the timing of the film as well, if not the content to some degree).

I think Wirestone is correct. If the reunion were still active, we wouldn’t be seeing the film and autobiographies in the same state and with the same timing. I’d say moreso with the books. I don’t think the film really trashes anybody (other than the Landy crew, rightly so of course), so I suppose the film could have emerged in the same state. Maybe. I think it would be less the content and more the Brian-centric nature of the film that would not mesh well with continual Beach Boys projects.
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« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2015, 12:45:57 PM »

I highly doubt the C50 tour (even if it was all smiles and roses and continued to this day) would have any effect on L&M.

As I've said elsewhere (and HeyJude agrees with me), the Mike character in the film doesn't say or do anything that comes anywhere near a hatchet job.
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« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2015, 01:08:17 PM »


Please don't speculate about that which we haven't read.  The pseudo bio didn't treat the band well. And, now we know why.  Landy was building his own band.  Too bad he didn't share a cell with Manson.  

Truly with all due respect, I have no problem speculating. That’s a HUGE part of what we do here, and implicit in a discussion of a book that *hasn’t been released yet* is that it’s all speculation.

I don’t want to turn this into a thread about Mike’s upcoming book.

Oh, I think you would love to turn this into a thread about Mike's upcoming book. But, there's plenty of time - and hundreds of pages - for that. In the meantime, speculate away!

However, I am reminded how we were scolded and reprimanded for speculating about NPP based on a nine second snippet of a song, or for speculating about Brian's upcoming tour based on one of his "meat and potatoes"  Roll Eyes shows, or for speculating about the movie based on some stills, trailers, or interviews from the participants, and for speculating about Larry Fine's upcoming biography which hasn't been written yet.

But that's Brian Wilson, and you want to speculate about Mike Love, so that's OK. There's one standard for Brian Wilson, and another standard...for everybody else.

Please feel free to read any or all of my history of posts on NPP. I defended those who gave the album negative reviews, and those who claimed they heard autotune. Read my review of the album on my blog; it’s far from a glowing review.

I thought (and posted as such) that a few defensive folks were being way too harsh on those who were posting thoughtful, non-trollish criticisms of NPP. I had numerous go-arounds on the autotune topic, I thought and still feel it’s on the album.

Not every person who criticizes Mike lacks the ability to criticize Brian.


I can vouch for that.

Sheriff, you picked on the wrong member to go after for your normal 'double standard' rant. It's getting old and tiresome. Seriously, if you don't like it here, leave.

Just stating an opinion, Billy. Just like you are in referring to my "rant" as "old and tiresome". Do you find SmileBrian and OSD's opinions old and tiresome? And others for that matter? Because I haven't seen you ask them to leave, unless you are doing it via PM.
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« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2015, 01:20:20 PM »

I highly doubt the C50 tour (even if it was all smiles and roses and continued to this day) would have any effect on L&M.

As I've said elsewhere (and HeyJude agrees with me), the Mike character in the film doesn't say or do anything that comes anywhere near a hatchet job.

So you could see L&M actually coming out in its current, unaltered form, in 2015, without any effect on either the film or a continually/perpetually reunited 2015 "all smiles" BBs? That the film would come out and the band would happily continue on chuggin' without any disruptions in the force, so to speak?

I guess the thought of an "all smiles" 2012 or 2015 BBs is a stretch in and of itself, but even if such were the case, for that to happen would have (at the very least) required numerous concessions and giving in to demands for Mike to have his way in writing songs with Brian the way he saw fit... and I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a guy who would make such C50 demands (it meant so much to him that he seemingly walked away due to being unhappy with how he fit into those circumstances after going ahead with the contracted tour + a few additional dates) would just happily go along with L&M in its current form (unless he had no political leverage, and had no escape hatch, so to speak), and not make any demands regarding his portrayal. I think that would be out of character, especially considering that C50 fell apart at least in part likely due to unhappiness over Mike not feeling he got his "due" in some fashion. Do you really think he'd just grin and bear it?
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« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2015, 03:10:15 PM »

Why would somebody else's movie change or not happen because the BBs were hypothetically touring together?
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« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2015, 03:14:06 PM »


Please don't speculate about that which we haven't read.  The pseudo bio didn't treat the band well. And, now we know why.  Landy was building his own band.  Too bad he didn't share a cell with Manson.  

Truly with all due respect, I have no problem speculating. That’s a HUGE part of what we do here, and implicit in a discussion of a book that *hasn’t been released yet* is that it’s all speculation.

I don’t want to turn this into a thread about Mike’s upcoming book.

Oh, I think you would love to turn this into a thread about Mike's upcoming book. But, there's plenty of time - and hundreds of pages - for that. In the meantime, speculate away!

However, I am reminded how we were scolded and reprimanded for speculating about NPP based on a nine second snippet of a song, or for speculating about Brian's upcoming tour based on one of his "meat and potatoes"  Roll Eyes shows, or for speculating about the movie based on some stills, trailers, or interviews from the participants, and for speculating about Larry Fine's upcoming biography which hasn't been written yet.

But that's Brian Wilson, and you want to speculate about Mike Love, so that's OK. There's one standard for Brian Wilson, and another standard...for everybody else.

Please feel free to read any or all of my history of posts on NPP. I defended those who gave the album negative reviews, and those who claimed they heard autotune. Read my review of the album on my blog; it’s far from a glowing review.

I thought (and posted as such) that a few defensive folks were being way too harsh on those who were posting thoughtful, non-trollish criticisms of NPP. I had numerous go-arounds on the autotune topic, I thought and still feel it’s on the album.

Not every person who criticizes Mike lacks the ability to criticize Brian.


I can vouch for that.

Sheriff, you picked on the wrong member to go after for your normal 'double standard' rant. It's getting old and tiresome. Seriously, if you don't like it here, leave.

Just stating an opinion, Billy. Just like you are in referring to my "rant" as "old and tiresome". Do you find SmileBrian and OSD's opinions old and tiresome? And others for that matter? Because I haven't seen you ask them to leave, unless you are doing it via PM.

Both have been previously suspended,  and I have told them both to tone it down before.  

And for the record I didn't ask you to leave,  I said if you don't like it here (since  you are always complaining about the mods ) you can leave . There's a difference.  Now, if you continue to falsely accuse us of having a double standard, then well, there won't be a difference any longer
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« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2015, 03:37:54 PM »

But, if everyone leaves, there'll be nobody to carry on the conversation. tho, if there's no one here, I guess we won't be having this conversation
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« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2015, 03:54:16 PM »

Not at all related.
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« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2015, 03:57:03 PM »

I highly doubt the C50 tour (even if it was all smiles and roses and continued to this day) would have any effect on L&M.

As I've said elsewhere (and HeyJude agrees with me), the Mike character in the film doesn't say or do anything that comes anywhere near a hatchet job.

So you could see L&M actually coming out in its current, unaltered form, in 2015, without any effect on either the film or a continually/perpetually reunited 2015 "all smiles" BBs? That the film would come out and the band would happily continue on chuggin' without any disruptions in the force, so to speak?

I guess the thought of an "all smiles" 2012 or 2015 BBs is a stretch in and of itself, but even if such were the case, for that to happen would have (at the very least) required numerous concessions and giving in to demands for Mike to have his way in writing songs with Brian the way he saw fit... and I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a guy who would make such C50 demands (it meant so much to him that he seemingly walked away due to being unhappy with how he fit into those circumstances after going ahead with the contracted tour + a few additional dates) would just happily go along with L&M in its current form (unless he had no political leverage, and had no escape hatch, so to speak), and not make any demands regarding his portrayal. I think that would be out of character, especially considering that C50 fell apart at least in part likely due to unhappiness over Mike not feeling he got his "due" in some fashion. Do you really think he'd just grin and bear it?

Grin and bear what? There's nothing that the Mike character says or does in the movie that's not said in countless other Beach Boys/Brian Wilson profiles. Heck, the Beach Boys have said far worse about each other while they were still a going concern. If anyone should be upset about how they're portrayed in the film it would be Carl, Dennis, Bruce and Al. The movie makes them look like they're input was basically zilch and are just along for the ride. At least Mike comes across like he's a somewhat important member of the band.
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« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2015, 04:18:38 PM »

I highly doubt the C50 tour (even if it was all smiles and roses and continued to this day) would have any effect on L&M.

As I've said elsewhere (and HeyJude agrees with me), the Mike character in the film doesn't say or do anything that comes anywhere near a hatchet job.

So you could see L&M actually coming out in its current, unaltered form, in 2015, without any effect on either the film or a continually/perpetually reunited 2015 "all smiles" BBs? That the film would come out and the band would happily continue on chuggin' without any disruptions in the force, so to speak?

I guess the thought of an "all smiles" 2012 or 2015 BBs is a stretch in and of itself, but even if such were the case, for that to happen would have (at the very least) required numerous concessions and giving in to demands for Mike to have his way in writing songs with Brian the way he saw fit... and I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a guy who would make such C50 demands (it meant so much to him that he seemingly walked away due to being unhappy with how he fit into those circumstances after going ahead with the contracted tour + a few additional dates) would just happily go along with L&M in its current form (unless he had no political leverage, and had no escape hatch, so to speak), and not make any demands regarding his portrayal. I think that would be out of character, especially considering that C50 fell apart at least in part likely due to unhappiness over Mike not feeling he got his "due" in some fashion. Do you really think he'd just grin and bear it?

Grin and bear what? There's nothing that the Mike character says or does in the movie that's not said in countless other Beach Boys/Brian Wilson profiles. Heck, the Beach Boys have said far worse about each other while they were still a going concern. If anyone should be upset about how they're portrayed in the film it would be Carl, Dennis, Bruce and Al. The movie makes them look like they're input was basically zilch and are just along for the ride. At least Mike comes across like he's a somewhat important member of the band.

Well maybe I'm wrong, and maybe Mike (if he eventually sees the film) will think it's cool, and not begrudge his portrayal, not wish certain scenes were omitted and others added in order to suit what he feels is the real story... but I simply doubt this would be the case. I guess we will find out if and when Mike ever says anything about the film. I also think it's naive to think that if Mike had any leverage/weight to throw around to modify the film (which perhaps could have been the case only in the context of a continuing musical/personal relationship that would have come with a continued reunion), that he wouldn't have at least tried; I doubt that he would have been perfectly happy with the film in its current form, especially if the film has legs as I think it will have.
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« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2015, 04:56:12 PM »

Well, it's not really his call. The world is full of movies about living people who didn't have a say in how they're portrayed. John Lydon was pretty furious and very vocal about how his character came off in "Sid and Nancy", that the film was a lot of garbage, etc and he was even consulted about it! He couldn't do anything to stop it though.
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« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2015, 05:00:29 PM »

Well, it's not really his call. The world is full of movies about living people who didn't have a say in how they're portrayed. John Lydon was pretty furious and very vocal about how his character came off in "Sid and Nancy", that the film was a lot of garbage, etc and he was even consulted about it! He couldn't do anything to stop it though.

Totally - I agree, it's not his call, not his movie. But *if* he were in a position to throw his weight around, to at least get some level of compromise (a la Daybreak Over the Ocean's inclusion on TWGMTR), which likely could only happen if he and Brian/Melinda were communicating in the context of an ongoing reunion, I have a hunch that we might have seen even just a touch of his wishes come to fruition within the film.
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« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2015, 05:10:18 PM »

Well, it's not really his call. The world is full of movies about living people who didn't have a say in how they're portrayed. John Lydon was pretty furious and very vocal about how his character came off in "Sid and Nancy", that the film was a lot of garbage, etc and he was even consulted about it! He couldn't do anything to stop it though.

Or look at Carol Kaye, who tweeted something way out of line because she was unhappy with her portrayal in LM.
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« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2015, 05:13:10 PM »

Well, I suppose, but y'know, it's one of those hypotheticals like what if Carl had lived or what if SMiLE had come out..in other words, we'll never know and the world goes on. If Mike has any objections to it, he'll probably make them known in his autobiography. Until then, I'm sure he got a little publishing money from all the co-writes used in the film (and movie rights usually mean big $$$).

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