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Author Topic: "Love & Mercy" - Board member reviews and discussion  (Read 46260 times)
The Cincinnati Kid
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« Reply #200 on: June 14, 2015, 05:41:58 PM »

Pet Sounds is back on the Billboard 200 at #182.  Grin  Sounds of Summer is up to #139. 
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« Reply #201 on: June 14, 2015, 07:45:28 PM »

^ That's awesome! I was hoping that this, along with some of the other recent musician-centered movies, would he "re-spark" people's interest in older music. Makes me happy Smiley.

The studio sequences were the most enjoyable for me. Thank you for the 360-degree shot around the studio. It's as if the filmmakers consciously had audiophiles and Beach Boys geeks like myself in mind when these scenes were shot. This is so much appreciated.

Dennis mugging for the camera after being scolded by Brian: absolutely PRICELESS.
That part was hilarious :D

I just saw it with my parents. I was probably the youngest out of the other 10, maybe 15 people that were there . It's actually playing in a handful of theatres around this area, so my sympathies for those who had to drive for half a day :/

Overall, I really enjoyed it. Paul Dano is quite the singer! I want to see more movies with him in it. Like other people on this thread, I absolutely loved the 60's scenes. The Pet Sound sessions were awesome (and that music has helped me get through finals, haha). Or maybe I'm just a total fangirl for 60s Beach Boys anyway.

And overall, I thought the acting was good. My dad wasn't a huge fan of Cusack's performance in this film, although he thinks he's a fine actor otherwise.
I actually giggled at Mike Luhv's post-Japan transformations, hat and beard and all. I thought the relationship between him and Brian was interesting, although the GV scene was well-done. Banana and Louie were clearly the star performers Wink.

Speaking of Banana, Dano seems to like using 'bananas" as an interjection in his interviews...?

side note: I lectured my dad on all of the history he wasn't sure of, like who the Wrecking Crew was, etc.... thanks to this forum, I now know all that. Thanks guys Tongue
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 06:31:24 PM by undercover-m » Logged

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« Reply #202 on: June 15, 2015, 04:59:10 AM »

Pet Sounds is back on the Billboard 200 at #182.  Grin  Sounds of Summer is up to #139. 

Pet Sounds back on the charts, that's amazing.

Thanks for the review, undercover
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« Reply #203 on: June 15, 2015, 06:10:07 AM »

Just saw this over the weekend, with an audience of about 20.  It's not often I come out of a movie without a single criticism, but this is one of those times.

Random thoughts:

That recreation of the Sloop John B video was astounding.  

Paul Giamatti managed to be as frightening and detestable as the real Landy without looking a thing like him.

Both of the leads clearly had studied Brian's mannerisms and were believable in the role.  Cusack's fidgeting and shuffling around on the sidewalk in the final sequence was fantastic.  It was easy to forget that Paul Dano wasn't Brian.

Good portrayal of the pressure Mike Love brought to bear on Brian, with the fact that the band members depended on his hit-making for their livelihood and Mike's disapproval gave Brian a lot of self-doubt.

The knowledge of Brian's history is so evident throughout the film.  I was impressed, for example, by the choice of "Day by Day" for that flashback sequence, since that was the first Four Freshmen record Brian had heard.  

Don't think we heard any Phil Spector recordings in the film; could be wrong.  It would have been nice to hear strains of "Be My Baby" at some point, but maybe there was a rights problem.

I never knew about Gloria, but it's good that she got her due in the film.

The floating quote "I'm a genius too" was spoken by Murry during that infamous "Help Me Ronda" session, but when disembodied it applies equally to Landy, who was fond of claiming that Brian's return to action was "proof" that in his own field Landy was a genius.  (Not to mention the "I'm a f****n' genius" apparel he used to wear and the "Brains & Genius" partnership he named.)

Everything worked so well in this film.  I'm really happy that Brian was able to be involved and see its completion.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 06:11:40 AM by SufferingFools » Logged

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« Reply #204 on: June 15, 2015, 06:18:50 AM »

Another stray, random observation. 

Landy is a terrible griller.

I mean, the guy can only grill one burger at a time?  Perhaps this was part of his way of controlling Brian. 

But, one burger at a time, and no sides?  What a terrible host. 
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marcusb
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« Reply #205 on: June 15, 2015, 06:34:19 AM »

Another stray, random observation. 

Landy is a terrible griller.

I mean, the guy can only grill one burger at a time?  Perhaps this was part of his way of controlling Brian. 

But, one burger at a time, and no sides?  What a terrible host. 

Man, I couldn't get over how child like Brian was in that scene. And I feel like that just was scratching the surface of that type of behavior.
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« Reply #206 on: June 15, 2015, 06:46:08 AM »

Numbers are in.  Not bad at all.

10   -   Love & Mercy   RAtt.   $1,765,000   -16.8%   573   +92   $3,080   $4,774,000   -   2
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« Reply #207 on: June 15, 2015, 06:56:37 AM »

Another stray, random observation. 

Landy is a terrible griller.

I mean, the guy can only grill one burger at a time?  Perhaps this was part of his way of controlling Brian. 

But, one burger at a time, and no sides?  What a terrible host. 

Man, I couldn't get over how child like Brian was in that scene. And I feel like that just was scratching the surface of that type of behavior.

Landy used to say he was "re-parenting" Brian, so that probably would have involved some degree of forcing him into a childlike role.
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« Reply #208 on: June 15, 2015, 07:20:41 AM »

Another stray, random observation. 

Landy is a terrible griller.

I mean, the guy can only grill one burger at a time?  Perhaps this was part of his way of controlling Brian. 

But, one burger at a time, and no sides?  What a terrible host. 

Man, I couldn't get over how child like Brian was in that scene. And I feel like that just was scratching the surface of that type of behavior.

Landy used to say he was "re-parenting" Brian, so that probably would have involved some degree of forcing him into a childlike role.

Yeah, and in the film Landy tells Melinda that Brian is basically a child. Combine that kind of mental abuse and all the medication and it's just such a sick situation. THEN add the financial situation. f***.
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TV Forces
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« Reply #209 on: June 15, 2015, 07:30:25 AM »

I saw the film Saturday night and loved it. I'm afraid I may have read too many reviews and watched the trailer too many times because I was expecting a much more emotional and devastating film than I got. I did tear up seeing Brian sing "Love & Mercy" at the end. Because you really feel the victory from leaving Landy. None of what we got from "Imagination" onward would have happened under Landy.

I'm always concerned about things being changed for dramatic effect in movies because people will then believe that version. I have to keep telling my parents that certain things in "Walk the Line" didn't happen that way, but they don't believe me since it was in some movie with backing from the families. I don't love the appearance that Brian went to bed for a couple years after SMiLE and did nothing else until the late 80s. He continued to make great music for a few more years. And they make it sound like the guys did Smiley Smile without Brian's involvement even though he's all over those session tapes and the album itself.

A few things weren't explained at all.. like WHY did Brian have a panic attack on the plane. WHY did they fire Murray. (I know these things, but my wife didn't.) WHY "Pet Sounds" was considered such a bad career move by Mike just because it was sad songs when the guys did plenty of sad songs before, from "In My Room" to key tracks on the "Today" and "Summer Days" albums. Mike didn't come off as good as I thought he would based on some of the opinions here. I figured his reactions to SMiLE sessions would be what's understandable, but there's nothing unacceptable about the "Pet Sounds" sessions in the movie and they didn't show any band blowout from the weirdness of the "Fire" sessions, and we know from clips that the other guys were there.

Also, a couple unnecessary digs at the Beach Boys itself.. like "we're too shallow for the deep end" and that guy telling Brian that HE's the Beach Boys.. Dennis and Carl are very supportive throughout the movie. John Cusack I just couldn't picture as Brian.. He altered his style of speaking, but not his look or voice.  Because Dano looked so much more like Brian, it seemed like a movie that is half Brian and half Cusack.

Unfortunately for us, in our theater was a woman who laughed at all the inappropriate parts.. thinking Brian's weird behavior was funny instead of sad.  

But yes, I think a failing might be that they didn't explain (aside from "sad music") why the Pet Sounds material was so objectionable to the other guys.  The Beach Boys had plenty of sad songs before.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 07:35:59 AM by TV Forces » Logged
TV Forces
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« Reply #210 on: June 15, 2015, 07:38:01 AM »

"Pet Sounds" is #23 on Amazon's music sales chart.

"Sounds of Summer" is #40.

"No Pier Pressure" is #59.

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Paul J B
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« Reply #211 on: June 15, 2015, 09:26:07 AM »

TV Forces,

I think you might be letting your knowledge of Brian cloud some of the things that bothered you about the movie. Many of the critics that are raving about the film love the fact that it makes you think. Your typical biopic tries too hard to show us a talented person and has to rely on a lot of fake drama to drive the point home and make us feel empathy for the talented figure. Most of your WHY questions were either answered or left for the viewer to ponder intentionally. In the opening scene Brian talks about "not losing it" later he is IS losing it on a plane. The film is full of foreshadowing and metaphor like that. Mike comments about "all the songs" being sad, much different from a few sad tracks in between a lot of fun in the sun tracks. I get what you are saying because you and I and a lot of people already know so much about Brian and the Beach Boys that we may feel some things came up short but I really think that is on us. I'm going to see it again tomorrow.

Hope I don't seem like I'm trying to argue with you. Just a fun discussion.

Also, sort of an aside but I'm leaning toward agreeing with the critics that feel a lot in this film is award worthy. If Reese Witherspoon deserved an Oscar for portraying June Cash , as well as Walk the Line getting a best picture nomination, then Love and Mercy most certainly is award worthy.



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« Reply #212 on: June 15, 2015, 10:52:52 AM »

Also, sort of an aside but I'm leaning toward agreeing with the critics that feel a lot in this film is award worthy. If Reese Witherspoon deserved an Oscar for portraying June Cash , as well as Walk the Line getting a best picture nomination, then Love and Mercy most certainly is award worthy.

No doubt.  I saw WALK THE LINE in the theater and remember being very impressed.  James Mangold is a great director.  LOVE & MERCY is on a whole different plane of existence though.  I don't know how the award nominations would go down but it's criminal negligence if Paul Dano is not nominated.  Cusack is tremendous but I think the heart of the film belongs to Dano.  Atticus Ross deserves something, hopefully appreciation from anyone who appreciates sound mixing in films is enough.  DP Robert Yeoman is perhaps the most unsung in all of the threads I've seen.  The images are so stark that they are still with me even a week after I last saw the film.
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« Reply #213 on: June 15, 2015, 11:18:21 AM »

Editing too. The editing on L&M kicks it. I think awards and in particular the award shows are for the most part really lame. But if people are going to pass them out then L&M should certainly be in the mix.
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« Reply #214 on: June 15, 2015, 11:28:16 AM »

Judging by the positive reviews and positive response to the film, I think there will be plenty of Oscar nominations. 

The fact that a limited run movie cracked the Top 10 during its second week in theaters (moving up a place) during the height of the summer blockbuster season is very impressive, and says a lot about the quality of the movie. 

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« Reply #215 on: June 15, 2015, 02:16:25 PM »

The looney lady is at it again on FB:   

>>

Carol Kaye II

2 hrs ˇ .



Completely wrong 'facts' in that Love & Mercy movie....I never wore that fire-hat, never looked like that, never said those words (Brian never wrote in "2 keys", they make that up because no-one knew what I said!) - thanks to my fans who spotted the ditsy stuff right away, they know I'm not like that at all...

 and no, there was never any competition between Beach Boys and Beatles, Brian Wilson never talked about the Beatles except to mention in-passing, 1-2 times, how good they were, is ALL.....and......they take license with a lot of things wrong in the movie:
For instance, they state that Paul McCartney came to one of our sessions. if that's "true" (and it's NOT), why did it take another 35 years before Paul *knew* it was Carol Kaye on bass and not Brian who played bass on those BB hits?

Paul always complimented Brian in magazine articles on his bass-playing on the Beach Boys hits, until about 2000 when he finally learned it was me! that's quite a well-known fact much written about in all the magazines.........oops.....guess the movie-makers didn't check out that FACT! LOL..... No, Paul McCartney NEVER came to one of our recording sessions at all. I never said "don't see the movie", which a Hollywood Bio-Pic, but just know it's not correct in facts, enjoy the music tho'......that's real. << 

What's just as bizarre are her followers/fans; you really have to read their fandulations to see the looney fools group
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« Reply #216 on: June 15, 2015, 02:50:31 PM »

Lyle Ritz says that the bassline in WIBN was in a different key.

The movie never states that McCartney attended any session.

It was the notes of those basslines that McCartney was enamored with, not the bassplaying.

I can believe that Brian hardly mentioned the Beatles but not that he didn't see them as competition, along with other groups of the day.
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« Reply #217 on: June 15, 2015, 03:14:16 PM »

Here's the thing:

- I commented on her post that I saw the movie twice and don't recall any mention of McCartney attending any session. But people who were actually around at the time have corroborated that Macca indeed WAS there, but during the vocal overdub sessions, when no session musicians would have been there to say whether or not he was indeed there. And despite popular rumor, Macca did NOT participate in the session; he was just present. Carol's response was something like "no wonder he didn't know it wasn't Brian who played bass on it" or something.

- I can believe the lack of mention of the Beatles too, but...Carol was not with Brian every second of his life. She doesn't know what he said outside of the recording dates.

- And the same thing with how she talks about how she's glad she got away from the scene before drugs were a thing. I remember many years ago -- I think on PSML -- she said that Brian was very strict about not having drugs in the studio, that everybody be clear-headed. Dave Prokopy sent her a copy of his Smile tape set, which included the infamous "D[a/e]nny, do you have any hash joints left? I know you do" and "You guys feelin' the acid yet?" lines from Brian. Her response was one of surprise, in that Brian might have been a bit looser with the singers. (Of course, I think the most widely-held belief is that Brian was addressing some of the Vosse Posse, who were sitting in the control room.) That was back when Carol was very diplomatic and didn't get offended if someone said that pi is 3.14159 but she believes it's 3.14157. The implications from her diatribes are that basically if she didn't see/hear Brian do something, that means he never ever did it.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 04:32:51 AM by 37!ws » Logged

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« Reply #218 on: June 15, 2015, 03:27:22 PM »

 saw it this past weekend and was amazed by all of the historical accuracies, down to room decorations except that for the period in question Carl's hair was parted on the wrong side Afro
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« Reply #219 on: June 15, 2015, 06:07:25 PM »

Until she suggested it, I never would have said her character came across as 'a bit of a ditz'. Unless there was a tape recorder going 24/7 it's impossible to completely document conversations that occurred nearly 50 years ago at Western Studios. A screenwriter must embellish a little bit to fit a scene perhaps.

The scene in question took me back to a comment Carol Kaye herself has made, more than once. That Brian was always focussed and knew exactly what he wanted when he came into he studio. If I watch the film 10 more times (I will) I wouldn't have thought "wow they portrayed Carol Kaye as a "bimbo" (her words). Now, I'll definitely think it.

And reading from the Facebook posters lapping up her 50 year old memories, it's kind of a drag to see that there are so many easily led automatons. "Oh Carol, you tell 'em!" Good grief, the movie is reverential to her, Blaine and all the other studio musicians. This is a woman that is seeing what she wants to see, personal opinion.
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the professor
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« Reply #220 on: June 15, 2015, 08:45:23 PM »

can anyone explain the bit about the "2 keys"? is it true? if not, how can this film, which labors so hard for accuracy, make up an ahistorical sequence like this of such specificity? what song was it again? can we determine if if fact BW wrote parts in 2 keys for some purpose?



The looney lady is at it again on FB:   

>>

Carol Kaye II

2 hrs ˇ .



Completely wrong 'facts' in that Love & Mercy movie....I never wore that fire-hat, never looked like that, never said those words (Brian never wrote in "2 keys", they make that up because no-one knew what I said!) - thanks to my fans who spotted the ditsy stuff right away, they know I'm not like that at all...

 and no, there was never any competition between Beach Boys and Beatles, Brian Wilson never talked about the Beatles except to mention in-passing, 1-2 times, how good they were, is ALL.....and......they take license with a lot of things wrong in the movie:
For instance, they state that Paul McCartney came to one of our sessions. if that's "true" (and it's NOT), why did it take another 35 years before Paul *knew* it was Carol Kaye on bass and not Brian who played bass on those BB hits?

Paul always complimented Brian in magazine articles on his bass-playing on the Beach Boys hits, until about 2000 when he finally learned it was me! that's quite a well-known fact much written about in all the magazines.........oops.....guess the movie-makers didn't check out that FACT! LOL..... No, Paul McCartney NEVER came to one of our recording sessions at all. I never said "don't see the movie", which a Hollywood Bio-Pic, but just know it's not correct in facts, enjoy the music tho'......that's real. << 

What's just as bizarre are her followers/fans; you really have to read their fandulations to see the looney fools group

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« Reply #221 on: June 15, 2015, 10:18:34 PM »

can anyone explain the bit about the "2 keys"? is it true? if not, how can this film, which labors so hard for accuracy, make up an ahistorical sequence like this of such specificity? what song was it again? can we determine if if fact BW wrote parts in 2 keys for some purpose?

It's in the scene for the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" backing track.  Lyle Ritz is supposed to play in one key on the double bass and Carol is to play another on her bass.  I'm not even remotely musical enough to know if two keys are being played on the real track.  I do know that the expository dialogue in the scene is interesting and gets the point across that Brian heard in his head what he wanted and the musicians followed.
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« Reply #222 on: June 16, 2015, 12:03:32 AM »

saw it this past weekend and was amazed by all of the historical accuracies, down to room decorations except that for the period in question Carl's hair was parted on the wrong side Afro

He was ever consistent with the hair parting?  I never got that feeling from Carl.  Seemed to me he'd part his hair however the wind blew it on that particular morning.
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« Reply #223 on: June 16, 2015, 03:29:26 AM »

I saw this last night at Off Broadway in Köln. A small cinema, bt awesome sound and picture quality.

The film was very different to my expectations. It had a very documentary feel to it, especially the 60's era studio footage. I really felt like a fly on the wall.

But the soundtrack. That won me over from the first frame of film. This is something I really hope gets the red carpet treatment. If not, then I will be ripping my Blu-Ray to may my own. Gave me goosebumps throughout the whole picture.

Finally a film about the Beach Boys (well, Brian I know) that doesn't make me cringe.
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« Reply #224 on: June 16, 2015, 06:30:05 AM »

I got curious this morning and looked at CK's Facebook page again and her whole rant from yesterday is gone. 

Unrelated question: When does happy hour start on the west coast?  Shocked
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