Are Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks currently estranged?

[Smilin Ed H]

If this doesn't show affection, what does?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiykTknz51U

something a little more current than 20 years ago?

The point is that 20 years ago, VDP didn't seem to have these 'issues' and while he now seems to scorn certain aspects of their relationship in the past, he seems to be talking out of his backside in the way he's going on about the past now. He may have issues with the way Brian's life is being managed now, but I susoect if he'd been ecording with him, I doubt we'd be seeing tweets telling us that Harry Nilsson is the ONLY genius in pop/rock or he'd be bleating about his role in Smile, which, I maintain, is till the thing he's best known for.


But since we're back on ragging against Mike, it doesn't really matter does it?

[phirnis]

After doing some searches on the Google, I found this eyewitness acount of the trial by a fan who watched from the gallery.  Definitely an interesting read.  Despite having been separated from Landy, Brian was still in a very fragile state at this time.  It would seem he didn't really care about the outcome and it was his testimony that won the trial for Mike.
http://www.surfermoon.com/essays/lovevwilson1.html

Thanks for sharing this, what a great read! Seems like BW was in a really bad place in '94, it's amazing he could actually work on projects like the Orange Crate Art album at the time.

[Cam Mott]

Looks like 39 songs were only ever in the suit according to the trial witness. Mike apparently didn't argue for a certain amount of credit (even offering a low ball settlement) or with any previous under-crediting (like had happened to Asher).

OJ's trial was a different judge and jury with a different standard of proof.  I also don't remember OJ testifying for the prosecution.  Hasn't Brian said outside of the trial also that Mike was un-credited?  Maybe fans make more out of it then Brian and Mike did?

[Sheriff John Stone]

After doing some searches on the Google, I found this eyewitness acount of the trial by a fan who watched from the gallery.  Definitely an interesting read.  Despite having been separated from Landy, Brian was still in a very fragile state at this time.  It would seem he didn't really care about the outcome and it was his testimony that won the trial for Mike.
http://www.surfermoon.com/essays/lovevwilson1.html

Thanks for sharing this, what a great read! Seems like BW was in a really bad place in '94, it's amazing he could actually work on projects like the Orange Crate Art album at the time.

I agree; based on that eyewitness account, Brian did appear to be dealing with some serious issues, and that was 1994. In the recent "Carl" thread, The Real Beach Boy mentioned the "h" word - handlers- in describing Brian in 1995, less than a year later. Some posters took exception to that. They must think that Brian made a tremendous recovery in the few months after the trial.

[37!ws]

I have nothing to say other than when you read that account of the credit trial, it is hilarious that the dragged David Marks into court to get his account on the writing of "Chug-A-Lug."

[Mike's Beard]

After doing some searches on the Google, I found this eyewitness acount of the trial by a fan who watched from the gallery.  Definitely an interesting read.  Despite having been separated from Landy, Brian was still in a very fragile state at this time.  It would seem he didn't really care about the outcome and it was his testimony that won the trial for Mike.
http://www.surfermoon.com/essays/lovevwilson1.html

Thanks for sharing this, what a great read! Seems like BW was in a really bad place in '94, it's amazing he could actually work on projects like the Orange Crate Art album at the time.

I agree; based on that eyewitness account, Brian did appear to be dealing with some serious issues, and that was 1994. In the recent "Carl" thread, The Real Beach Boy mentioned the "h" word - handlers- in describing Brian in 1995, less than a year later. Some posters took exception to that. They must think that Brian made a tremendous recovery in the few months after the trial.

That would also be my guess for why Brian wasn't involved in SIP. It wasn't like he was under Landy's care one day and then magically fine the next.

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike was out of his mind in the 1990s with SIP, taking money from BW in the "lawsuit" ,and kicking Al out of the band. Kokomo turned him into a madman.

[37!ws]

Was it ever officially announced whether Al left voluntarily?? He was very vague about it in the big interview Goldmine did with him shortly afterwards.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Was it ever officially announced whether Al left voluntarily?? He was very vague about it in the big interview Goldmine did with him shortly afterwards.

I believe Mike has been very vocal about kicking him out for his "attitude problem." For better or worse, it seems to have been Mike's decision.

[CenturyDeprived]

Mike was out of his mind in the 1990s with SIP, taking money from BW in the "lawsuit" ,and kicking Al out of the band. Kokomo turned him into a madman.

I wonder if Al would have been squeezed out the way he was had Kokomo not existed. I like the song well enough, but I think the power control shift in whatever form(s) it took (and it had to have had a behnd-the-scenes political effect in some way) did not ultimately bode well for the band in hindsight, and I can't understand those who think a power shift in Mike's direction in that era was a wonderful thing that should ideally have started years earlier. If no Kokomo could have *possibly* meant that the band would have released some better material in that era during Carl's lifetime, I think it would have been worth the tradeoff easily.

Regardless of Kokomo, Mike was probably eventually going to sue for legit song credits that he was screwed out of (aside from some debatable ones, there were surely some that he was in fact, unarguably, a proper co-author of, and those songs he had every right to be credited on). While Mike may deserve flak for overreaching with the lawsuit, nobody should say that the suit was completely without merit.

But if Mike's post-Kokomo actions do *not* constitute a power-grab, I'd like to know what would in fact be an example of a power-grab.

[Mike's Beard]

As mentioned before, no one else was offering much else in the late 80s-early 90s. Other then what Mike and Melcher were writing, the band had a severe songwriting drought.

[CenturyDeprived]

As mentioned before, no one else was offering much else in the late 80s-early 90s. Other then what Mike and Melcher were writing, the band had a severe songwriting drought.

You know what might have helped stop the drought? Taking some time off from touring to write some music, like most bands do from time to time.

[SMiLE Brian]

Great points CD, it almost seemed like Mike wanted the BBs to his solo group with no questions asked. If they were, the members like Al were kicked to the curb.

[SMiLE Brian]

As mentioned before, no one else was offering much else in the late 80s-early 90s. Other then what Mike and Melcher were writing, the band had a severe songwriting drought.

You know what might have helped stop the drought? Taking some time off from touring to write some music, like most bands do from time to time.

Mike had bills from the ex-wives club.

[CenturyDeprived]

As mentioned before, no one else was offering much else in the late 80s-early 90s. Other then what Mike and Melcher were writing, the band had a severe songwriting drought.

You know what might have helped stop the drought? Taking some time off from touring to write some music, like most bands do from time to time.

Mike had bills from the ex-wives club.

As evidenced by the sheer volume of touring that M&B do, it seems rather obvious that Mike was the primary person pushing the neverending touring, even during Carl/Al's era. If it was Mike who passed in 1998 and Carl was still living and touring as The BBs, does anyone think there'd be near as many shows?

I hardly think that endless touring lends itself to any kind of creative refreshment to write a significant swath of quality material.  Yes, on one hand they *all* got on autopilot mode, but it's much easier for that to have happened if the alternative (expressing displeasure) meant being branded as having an "attitude problem" and being kicked to the curb.

[SMiLE Brian]

Hence why Mike's creativity and vocal talents have been decreasing over the years. The non-stop touring really is detrimental personally without even factoring the brand damage from playing questionable venues. Hence the giant video board on M&B tours to distract from the band's tired playing and singing.

[drbeachboy]

Guess what, without much of a recording contract, if any through most of the late 80's & 90's, touring was their main income maker.  Even in their hey day they were constantly on the road. That never changed throughout their whole career. These guys don't have lifestyles like most of us. It takes money and lots of it to maintain what they were all comfortable with.

[Lee Marshall]

Hence why Mike's creativity and vocal talents have been decreasing over the years. The non-stop touring really is detrimental personally without even factoring the brand damage from playing questionable venues. Hence the giant video board on M&B tours to distract from the band's tired playing and singing.

T'wasn't that way at all when I went to see them 3 1/2 weeks ago.  It was spot on and really well done.  Both the playing and the singing.  Those video boards might have been of more benefit to those further back.  Some nice augmentation with ALL of the original guys on screen as the corresponging songs were performed.  It was WAY better than I was expecting.  Like...it was just plain GREAT.

[Cam Mott]

If this doesn't show affection, what does?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiykTknz51U

something a little more current than 20 years ago?

The point is that 20 years ago, VDP didn't seem to have these 'issues' and while he now seems to scorn certain aspects of their relationship in the past, he seems to be talking out of his backside in the way he's going on about the past now. He may have issues with the way Brian's life is being managed now, but I susoect if he'd been ecording with him, I doubt we'd be seeing tweets telling us that Harry Nilsson is the ONLY genius in pop/rock or he'd be bleating about his role in Smile, which, I maintain, is till the thing he's best known for.


But since we're back on ragging against Mike, it doesn't really matter does it?

Anderle, Vosse, and Siegel make it sound like it wasn't all sweetness and light between them back in the day. That they wouldn't be able to work together seemed inevitable to them it seems to me.  Probably they both have some issues with each other and as you get older setting your record straight might seem more important.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Hence why Mike's creativity and vocal talents have been decreasing over the years. The non-stop touring really is detrimental personally without even factoring the brand damage from playing questionable venues. Hence the giant video board on M&B tours to distract from the band's tired playing and singing.

Brand damage? Absolutely! The myKe and br00th band have been the most overexposed live act for years. Anything so myKe doesn't have be home I guess. What an effed up existence.

[Debbie KL]

Here's the thing, we don't know what potential record contracts were on the table for the BBs after "Kokomo"...We're probably a bit off-base to assume that there were none.  I wouldn't know obviously.  But unless you were in a BRI meeting at that time, neither would most of you.  Possibly someone has a good source?

[drbeachboy]

Here's the thing, we don't know what potential record contracts were on the table for the BBs after "Kokomo"...We're probably a bit off-base to assume that there were none.  I wouldn't know obviously.  But unless you were in a BRI meeting at that time, neither would most of you.  Possibly someone has a good source?

My point was meaning having a recording contract as a source of income. Touring  probably made up a good portion of their income.

[alf wiedersehen]

every fucking thread

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

every fucking thread

Light and Dark

Good and Evil

Male and Female

Yin and Yang

Hot and Cold

R'hllor and the Great Other

Brianistas and Kokomoists

The great dualities of our universe, perpetually in conflict, eternally inescapable. Best get used to it. The only true faith is Zoroastrianism, and we mortals are but pawns on this cosmic chessboard of the two warring Gods.

[clack]

every fucking thread

So, I guess the answer to the question "are Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks currently estranged?" is Mike Love sucks?

Maybe instead of "42", as Douglas Adams has it, that's the smileysmile version of "what is the ultimate answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything?"