Are Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks currently estranged?

[bgas]

If VDP's not happy with his deal re. Smile, be it financially or how he was/ is credited on the project re. 'authorship', maybe he should pursue it legally,  a la Mike Love did in 1994.

If VDP got the short end of the stick, crediting and/or compensation-wise, VDP surely hasn't a fraction of the deep pockets that Mike has (or had in 1994) to wage a lawsuit if he feels wronged.

sure he does!  It might not be a large fraction tho

Whatever bucks he has, it surely ain't anywhere near Mike Love-level bucks! At that level of wealth, lawsuits like the thrown-outta-court Smile CD giveaway lawsuit must be easier, relatively speaking, to just throw out there and see if they stick, or so I'd imagine.

 I expect part of Mike's income goes toward keeping his attorney(s) on retainer

[SMiLE Brian]

The same "dream team" OJ Simpson had.

[CenturyDeprived]

If VDP's not happy with his deal re. Smile, be it financially or how he was/ is credited on the project re. 'authorship', maybe he should pursue it legally,  a la Mike Love did in 1994.

If VDP got the short end of the stick, crediting and/or compensation-wise, VDP surely hasn't a fraction of the deep pockets that Mike has (or had in 1994) to wage a lawsuit if he feels wronged.

sure he does!  It might not be a large fraction tho

Whatever bucks he has, it surely ain't anywhere near Mike Love-level bucks! At that level of wealth, lawsuits like the thrown-outta-court Smile CD giveaway lawsuit must be easier, relatively speaking, to just throw out there and see if they stick, or so I'd imagine.

 I expect part of Mike's income goes toward keeping his attorney(s) on retainer

I wouldn't doubt it.

[CenturyDeprived]

The same "dream team" OJ Simpson had.

Johnny Cocharson
F OnLee With You Bailey
Our Robert Car-dashian Club
Micheal Robert Shapi-row The Boat Ashore
Alan Dersho-with Me Tonight

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

The same "dream team" OJ Simpson had.

Yes, a large part of myKe luHv's legacy is based on his litigious nature. It comes from not trusting a soul, especially a bandmate that got him where he is today, and is fueled primarily by paranoia.

[CenturyDeprived]

The same "dream team" OJ Simpson had.

Yes, a large part of myKe luHv's legacy is based on his litigious nature. It comes from not trusting a soul, especially a bandmate that got him where he is today, and is fueled primarily by paranoia.

The songwriting lawsuit I can understand and empathize with, since he legitimately got screwed over in a big way, and that ain't right however you slice it (or however anybody feels about him). I'd like to think that everyone can agree being screwed out of actual songwriting credits (the debatable WIBN aside) wasn't right - even if some might have been padded out or exaggerated, I think a good number were actually unequivocally not.

But the other lawsuits absolutely seem very petty and bitter. No doubt.

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly, Mike's paranoida and jealousy is the prime factor in constantly suing BW for no reason.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Exactly, Mike's paranoida and jealousy is the prime factor in constantly suing BW for no reason.

Being a goof and looking like he did as a kid (and now of course), I can see him getting beat up after school on numerous occasions which was most likely a building block for his close relationship with lawyers. Then came the wives. Has myKe luHv been in court longer than he's been on stage .

[Bicyclerider]

The same "dream team" OJ Simpson had.

Yes, a large part of myKe luHv's legacy is based on his litigious nature. It comes from not trusting a soul, especially a bandmate that got him where he is today, and is fueled primarily by paranoia.

The songwriting lawsuit I can understand and empathize with, since he legitimately got screwed over in a big way, and that ain't right however you slice it (or however anybody feels about him). I'd like to think that everyone can agree being screwed out of actual songwriting credits (the debatable WIBN aside) wasn't right - even if some might have been padded out or exaggerated, I think a good number were actually unequivocally not.

But the other lawsuits absolutely seem very petty and bitter. No doubt.

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

[CenturyDeprived]

The same "dream team" OJ Simpson had.

Yes, a large part of myKe luHv's legacy is based on his litigious nature. It comes from not trusting a soul, especially a bandmate that got him where he is today, and is fueled primarily by paranoia.

The songwriting lawsuit I can understand and empathize with, since he legitimately got screwed over in a big way, and that ain't right however you slice it (or however anybody feels about him). I'd like to think that everyone can agree being screwed out of actual songwriting credits (the debatable WIBN aside) wasn't right - even if some might have been padded out or exaggerated, I think a good number were actually unequivocally not.

But the other lawsuits absolutely seem very petty and bitter. No doubt.

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

Totally. I think he ran with it, from what started out as a truly legit gripe over actual, proper lyrics that were not credited. And yes, he tried to settle it earlier at a much lower fee, so I'll give him credit for that.

However, regardless of how we feel about the overreaching with credits on some songs, and even if we (or I'll speak for myself and say "I") feel that lawsuits like the Smile CD giveaway suit were baseless and frankly despicable considering the emotionally painful circumstance that entire project became for Brian - the fact remains that nobody, not even the biggest Mike hater, should say that the group of songs which he unquestionably wrote significant lyrics for should have been uncredited. That's something that everyone, regardless of party/side preference, should at least be able to say. Of course he is due credits over actual significant lyrics he wrote.

[Cam Mott]

The same "dream team" OJ Simpson had.

Yes, a large part of myKe luHv's legacy is based on his litigious nature. It comes from not trusting a soul, especially a bandmate that got him where he is today, and is fueled primarily by paranoia.

The songwriting lawsuit I can understand and empathize with, since he legitimately got screwed over in a big way, and that ain't right however you slice it (or however anybody feels about him). I'd like to think that everyone can agree being screwed out of actual songwriting credits (the debatable WIBN aside) wasn't right - even if some might have been padded out or exaggerated, I think a good number were actually unequivocally not.

But the other lawsuits absolutely seem very petty and bitter. No doubt.

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

Didn't the jury/judge set damages and determine percentages?

Mike takes credit for 1 of 3 verses of BTTYS and then there was a repeated chorus, a third of the verses seems like a significant contribution.

Aren't Mike's contributions to the lyrics of 409 shown as lyrics of record for the song? They are repeated like 18 times during the song.

[guitarfool2002]

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

Very good post. In my own opinion, the Wouldn't It Be Nice issue is one of the most egregious examples of over-reaching, but it's ground which has been covered before. Just consider too what would seem to be around three dozen songs that were originally filed in the lawsuit that got rejected. Meaning simply, credit was claimed and entered into court but those songs got thrown out of the court case. I'd like to see what those were and what about the claims caused them to be dismissed. That's quite a lot of songs and credits. Wonder what didn't add up.

[Cam Mott]

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

Very good post. In my own opinion, the Wouldn't It Be Nice issue is one of the most egregious examples of over-reaching, but it's ground which has been covered before. Just consider too what would seem to be around three dozen songs that were originally filed in the lawsuit that got rejected. Meaning simply, credit was claimed and entered into court but those songs got thrown out of the court case. I'd like to see what those were and what about the claims caused them to be dismissed. That's quite a lot of songs and credits. Wonder what didn't add up.

I would guess lack of evidence, some of the ones that stuck apparently had eye witness testimony. It might be tough if your collaborator was also the publisher responsible.

[guitarfool2002]

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

Very good post. In my own opinion, the Wouldn't It Be Nice issue is one of the most egregious examples of over-reaching, but it's ground which has been covered before. Just consider too what would seem to be around three dozen songs that were originally filed in the lawsuit that got rejected. Meaning simply, credit was claimed and entered into court but those songs got thrown out of the court case. I'd like to see what those were and what about the claims caused them to be dismissed. That's quite a lot of songs and credits. Wonder what didn't add up.

I would guess lack of evidence, some of the ones that stuck apparently had eye witness testimony. It might be tough if your collaborator was also the publisher responsible.

Apparently? Who was the eyewitness?

[Lee Marshall]

All you folks who think Melinda is some strange controller of Brian's life must not be married.  

You bet yer arse.  Right friggin' on.  My wife thinks she controls my life.  I think she doesn't.  The input she provides, though, proves invaluable.  Brian's the kind of guy who NEEDS a poke.  Darian.  Jeff when he was around.  Melinda.  [and then there was Murry...and the so-called doctor.]  Some do it for HIS own best interests.  SOME tried to do it for THEIR own  There's a difference.

[Cam Mott]

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

Very good post. In my own opinion, the Wouldn't It Be Nice issue is one of the most egregious examples of over-reaching, but it's ground which has been covered before. Just consider too what would seem to be around three dozen songs that were originally filed in the lawsuit that got rejected. Meaning simply, credit was claimed and entered into court but those songs got thrown out of the court case. I'd like to see what those were and what about the claims caused them to be dismissed. That's quite a lot of songs and credits. Wonder what didn't add up.

I would guess lack of evidence, some of the ones that stuck apparently had eye witness testimony. It might be tough if your collaborator was also the publisher responsible.

Apparently? Who was the eyewitness?

Some were mentioned in that eyewitness account of the trial I believe. David, Al, Carl I believe; Brian kind of. I believe Brian has said something since about Mike deserving it.

[guitarfool2002]

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

Very good post. In my own opinion, the Wouldn't It Be Nice issue is one of the most egregious examples of over-reaching, but it's ground which has been covered before. Just consider too what would seem to be around three dozen songs that were originally filed in the lawsuit that got rejected. Meaning simply, credit was claimed and entered into court but those songs got thrown out of the court case. I'd like to see what those were and what about the claims caused them to be dismissed. That's quite a lot of songs and credits. Wonder what didn't add up.

I would guess lack of evidence, some of the ones that stuck apparently had eye witness testimony. It might be tough if your collaborator was also the publisher responsible.

Apparently? Who was the eyewitness?

Some were mentioned in that eyewitness account of the trial I believe. David, Al, Carl I believe; Brian kind of. I believe Brian has said something since about Mike deserving it.

Most of this is in the board's archives from the last time you discussed it with me. I'm wondering who were the eyewitnesses? The only eyewitness of note regarding "Wouldn't It Be Nice" would have been, and was, Tony Asher. Who else gave eyewitness testimony in this case? Was there anyone beyond David, Al, and Carl called? Asher, yes, but anyone else?

Wondering about the opinions on whether Mike also deserved those 3 dozen or so song claims that were originally part of it but got thrown out or rejected by the court.

[Cam Mott]

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

Very good post. In my own opinion, the Wouldn't It Be Nice issue is one of the most egregious examples of over-reaching, but it's ground which has been covered before. Just consider too what would seem to be around three dozen songs that were originally filed in the lawsuit that got rejected. Meaning simply, credit was claimed and entered into court but those songs got thrown out of the court case. I'd like to see what those were and what about the claims caused them to be dismissed. That's quite a lot of songs and credits. Wonder what didn't add up.

I would guess lack of evidence, some of the ones that stuck apparently had eye witness testimony. It might be tough if your collaborator was also the publisher responsible.

Apparently? Who was the eyewitness?

Some were mentioned in that eyewitness account of the trial I believe. David, Al, Carl I believe; Brian kind of. I believe Brian has said something since about Mike deserving it.

Most of this is in the board's archives from the last time you discussed it with me. I'm wondering who were the eyewitnesses? The only eyewitness of note regarding "Wouldn't It Be Nice" would have been, and was, Tony Asher. Who else gave eyewitness testimony in this case? Was there anyone beyond David, Al, and Carl called? Asher, yes, but anyone else?

Wondering about the opinions on whether Mike also deserved those 3 dozen or so song claims that were originally part of it but got thrown out or rejected by the court.

I don't know who all or how many, as I said for "some of the ones that stuck". Court records would presumably show who?  There was also other evidence and exhibits mentioned. There did need to be a preponderance of evidence for those songs awarded after all.

Re. those that were not awarded, as I said "I would guess lack of evidence" which could be less than a preponderance of evidence.

[guitarfool2002]

The songwriting lawsuit mixed legitimate songs that Mike wrote half or more of the lyrics to with songs that he had little or nothing to do with.  Mike feels if he comes up with a bass vocal line he deserves half of the song.  Witness Wouldn't It Be Nice - "good night baby, sleep tight baby" is his sole contribution to the song.  The Becoming the Beach Boys is very illuminating in detailing how Mike was always trying to horn in on the songwriting credits.  409 - he came up with the intro "she's real fine my 409" and the bass part answering "giddy up giddyup 409" which just took a lyric already written for the song.  For that he now gets a third of the song?  Music copywriter law stipulates melody and lyrics, not backing vocals or bass vocal arrangements as what constitutes the song.  Read about Be True to Your School - written almost completely by Brian, I think Mike came up with the loud braggart Intro if anything.  So Mike parlayed some songs he had legitimately been denied credit for into co authorship of many many songs in which his contribution was trivial.  His lawyers earned their fees with that case.

Very good post. In my own opinion, the Wouldn't It Be Nice issue is one of the most egregious examples of over-reaching, but it's ground which has been covered before. Just consider too what would seem to be around three dozen songs that were originally filed in the lawsuit that got rejected. Meaning simply, credit was claimed and entered into court but those songs got thrown out of the court case. I'd like to see what those were and what about the claims caused them to be dismissed. That's quite a lot of songs and credits. Wonder what didn't add up.

I would guess lack of evidence, some of the ones that stuck apparently had eye witness testimony. It might be tough if your collaborator was also the publisher responsible.

Apparently? Who was the eyewitness?

Some were mentioned in that eyewitness account of the trial I believe. David, Al, Carl I believe; Brian kind of. I believe Brian has said something since about Mike deserving it.

Most of this is in the board's archives from the last time you discussed it with me. I'm wondering who were the eyewitnesses? The only eyewitness of note regarding "Wouldn't It Be Nice" would have been, and was, Tony Asher. Who else gave eyewitness testimony in this case? Was there anyone beyond David, Al, and Carl called? Asher, yes, but anyone else?

Wondering about the opinions on whether Mike also deserved those 3 dozen or so song claims that were originally part of it but got thrown out or rejected by the court.

I don't know who all or how many, as I said for "some of the ones that stuck". Court records would presumably show who?  There was also other evidence and exhibits mentioned. There did need to be a preponderance of evidence for those songs awarded after all.

Re. those that were not awarded, as I said "I would guess lack of evidence" which could be less than a preponderance of evidence.

Some would say there was a similar lack of evidence found by singling out Wouldn't It Be Nice as an example. The theory put forth by Mike's lawyer was tin-foil hat, faked moon landing territory unless some actually believe Brian was taking bathroom breaks during the sessions to talk to Mike on the phone and get the lyrics in order as Mike wrote them from the road. Because Tony Asher and Brian were the two writers on that song, and it was suggested otherwise.

Now consider the 409 example above, it makes sense. But is that equal to co-writership credit any more than Ringo Starr could have taken the interests who made money off "A Hard Days Night" both film and music to court and win if the "409" standard was applied there. I guess one would also wonder why Ringo never did because it looks like 409 was won in similar claims. The title is the hook, right?

I guess I'm just still wondering who the powerhouse eyewitness or witnesses could possibly have been to tip the scales in Mike's direction especially on songs that are less obvious in writer credits like WIBN and others. Writing a coda that only shows up in the last seconds of the record itself, that's co-authorship? After the real meat-and-potatoes argument about the song fell on its face since the bathroom break conspiracy didn't make any sense?

I don't know. It feels like there was someone like a powerhouse witness called by Mike's team that swayed the case, similar to Paul Newman's character calling the former nurse Caitlyn Costello-Price to the stand to clinch the case in The Verdict. Bicyclerider above made a logical case in a few really solid sentences that some of the examples awarded in court were spotty at best. So there had to be an ace in the hole somewhere, I'd think.

[Rocky Raccoon]

After doing some searches on the Google, I found this eyewitness acount of the trial by a fan who watched from the gallery.  Definitely an interesting read.  Despite having been separated from Landy, Brian was still in a very fragile state at this time.  It would seem he didn't really care about the outcome and it was his testimony that won the trial for Mike.
http://www.surfermoon.com/essays/lovevwilson1.html

[Cam Mott]

Some would say there was a similar lack of evidence found by singling out Wouldn't It Be Nice as an example. The theory put forth by Mike's lawyer was tin-foil hat, faked moon landing territory unless some actually believe Brian was taking bathroom breaks during the sessions to talk to Mike on the phone and get the lyrics in order as Mike wrote them from the road. Because Tony Asher and Brian were the two writers on that song, and it was suggested otherwise.

Now consider the 409 example above, it makes sense. But is that equal to co-writership credit any more than Ringo Starr could have taken the interests who made money off "A Hard Days Night" both film and music to court and win if the "409" standard was applied there. I guess one would also wonder why Ringo never did because it looks like 409 was won in similar claims. The title is the hook, right?

I guess I'm just still wondering who the powerhouse eyewitness or witnesses could possibly have been to tip the scales in Mike's direction especially on songs that are less obvious in writer credits like WIBN and others. Writing a coda that only shows up in the last seconds of the record itself, that's co-authorship? After the real meat-and-potatoes argument about the song fell on its face since the bathroom break conspiracy didn't make any sense?

I don't know. It feels like there was someone like a powerhouse witness called by Mike's team that swayed the case, similar to Paul Newman's character calling the former nurse Caitlyn Costello-Price to the stand to clinch the case in The Verdict. Bicyclerider above made a logical case in a few really solid sentences that some of the examples awarded in court were spotty at best. So there had to be an ace in the hole somewhere, I'd think.

I can't speak to all of your witness and evidence speculating and logic-ing but I guess the bottom line is the judge and jury, who actually heard all of the eye witness or otherwise evidence, thought Mike was denied due credit on 30 some songs.  Hopefully someday some actual court records/transcripts will surface.

Re. 409: Unless "gitty up" is the hook.

[Bicyclerider]

After doing some searches on the Google, I found this eyewitness acount of the trial by a fan who watched from the gallery.  Definitely an interesting read.  Despite having been separated from Landy, Brian was still in a very fragile state at this time.  It would seem he didn't really care about the outcome and it was his testimony that won the trial for Mike.
http://www.surfermoon.com/essays/lovevwilson1.html

My understanding is that Brian was expected to testify but in his fragile state he couldn't and that essentially made Mike's case - without Brian to testify as to Mikes contributions or lack thereof, the case had to be decided in Mikes favor.  I understand that since Mike had a legitimate claim to many of the songs, Brian didn't want to go up against him especially in a public court, but his "caving" completely allowed many of the more dubious co-songwriting claims to stand unchallenged.  Do we know how much credit for each song in the suit Mike was allotted?  I.e. 50% for Wilson-Love songs, and 33% for songs with two other writers?  Because 33% of WIBN is shamefully high.  But because Brian never contested the claims in court I assume that's what Mike was rewarded.

maybe Brian felt Mike getting undue credit on some of the songs somehow made up for the years he didn't get royalties on the songs he legitimately co wrote?

[guitarfool2002]

My understanding is that Brian was expected to testify but in his fragile state he couldn't and that essentially made Mike's case - without Brian to testify as to Mikes contributions or lack thereof, the case had to be decided in Mikes favor.  I understand that since Mike had a legitimate claim to many of the songs, Brian didn't want to go up against him especially in a public court, but his "caving" completely allowed many of the more dubious co-songwriting claims to stand unchallenged.  Do we know how much credit for each song in the suit Mike was allotted?  I.e. 50% for Wilson-Love songs, and 33% for songs with two other writers?  Because 33% of WIBN is shamefully high.  But because Brian never contested the claims in court I assume that's what Mike was rewarded.

maybe Brian felt Mike getting undue credit on some of the songs somehow made up for the years he didn't get royalties on the songs he legitimately co wrote?

It is shamefully high I think in more than a few fans' opinions as well, which is where some resentment might still linger over the way this was done.

And reading through those trial observations, a few things really hit home that don't get repeated or reported all that often. The way things were at that time, I'm actually stunned that there wasn't more done against having a blown-up photo of Murry Wilson on display in the courtroom knowing what a trigger Murry's image had been and was for years with Brian. That's seriously f***ed up, but lawyers don't have an off-switch when it comes to winning, i suppose. Hope everyone enjoyed the money.

[guitarfool2002]

I can't speak to all of your witness and evidence speculating and logic-ing but I guess the bottom line is the judge and jury, who actually heard all of the eye witness or otherwise evidence, thought Mike was denied due credit on 30 some songs.  Hopefully someday some actual court records/transcripts will surface.

It's ironic in a way that the OJ Simpson trial was going on at the same time across the street (according to the author of those essays), and look how that one turned out. Anyone think OJ was truly innocent because Judge Lance Ito and the jury said so in that trial?    Well, maybe OJ was still looking for the real killers years later when he assaulted that guy who had his football memorabilia in Vegas or something, we don't know. Or do we.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I can't speak to all of your witness and evidence speculating and logic-ing but I guess the bottom line is the judge and jury, who actually heard all of the eye witness or otherwise evidence, thought Mike was denied due credit on 30 some songs.  Hopefully someday some actual court records/transcripts will surface.

It's ironic in a way that the OJ Simpson trial was going on at the same time across the street (according to the author of those essays), and look how that one turned out. Anyone think OJ was truly innocent because Judge Lance Ito and the jury said so in that trial?    Well, maybe OJ was still looking for the real killers years later when he assaulted that guy who had his football memorabilia in Vegas or something, we don't know. Or do we.

OJ didnt do anything wrong. But IF he did, here's how...