The Smiley Smile Message Board
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
If you like this message board, please help with the hosting costs!
680788
Posts in
27616
Topics by
4067
Members - Latest Member:
Dae Lims
April 24, 2024, 03:56:14 PM
The Smiley Smile Message Board
|
Smiley Smile Stuff
|
General On Topic Discussions
|
Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
2
Author
Topic: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues? (Read 6363 times)
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 5749
Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
on:
May 26, 2015, 03:55:58 PM »
Even if Denny had cleaned up and lived, does anyone think that those two could have ever patched things up to the point where there wasn't going to be frequent tension, butting of heads, and deep dissatisfaction, one way or another? If Shawn was still not going to be recognized by Mike, that issue alone would be a huge obstacle, I would think (even post breakup).
And artistically, I think that even a clean Dennis was going to be frustrated as hell at the jukebox direction that the band went down in the 80s and 90s. The way Al got frustrated? I think even a clean Dennis would have been frustrated much more, and would have been MUCH more consistently vocal about it, plus would have been more empowered to do something about it, with him being a Wilson vs a relatively less-empowered Jardine. I cannot imagine Mike would be happy about that.
Maybe Denny, even if he objected to the "artistic" benefits of the eventual addition of the cheerleaders, would have probably just had his way with them anyway, and Denny/Mike for that reason could perhaps have agreed on their inclusion, but otherwise I'm not sure where any lasting common ground would have been. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Mike would have been super frustrated and unhappy with someone else in the band who could have better aligned a power struggle against the Mike-preferred direction. Despite the fact that Denny and Mike had successfully collaborated in the 70s, I tend to doubt that many subsequent types of Mike/Denny collabs would have occurred if Denny had lived - maybe a few, but probably the exceptions and not the rule; I'd think the creative differences (not to mention personal differences, even sans drug use) would just have continued to grow. What does everyone think?
«
Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 06:11:32 PM by CenturyDeprived
»
Logged
Douchepool
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 883
Time to make the chimifuckingchangas.
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #1 on:
May 26, 2015, 04:13:51 PM »
Well, it clearly matters little since history didn't play out that way, but blood is thicker than water.
Logged
The Artist Formerly Known as Deadpool. You may refer to me as such, or as Mr. Pool.
This is also Mr. Pool's Naughty List. Don't end up on here. It will be updated.
NateRuvin
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 924
"I had to prove that I could make it alone"...
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #2 on:
May 26, 2015, 08:29:32 PM »
I think they could've.
Even though Mike has been known to speak of ill of Dennis, and even Brian, the Beach Boys truly are a family, and I believe, had he lived, Denny would've been on the C50 tour, but would probably not tour with Mike+Bruce. I think he'd be doing solo albums, or maybe singing with Brian's band. He sure did love Brian.
Logged
Kurosawa
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 365
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #3 on:
May 26, 2015, 10:25:14 PM »
Yes, if Denny had gotten clean they would have patched things up. I think Mike's biggest problem with Denny is he was killing himself with drugs and booze. But could Denny have ever cleaned up? The man made some beautiful music, but wow, what a hedonist.
They were both very alpha guys. I think Dennis should have left the band after POB. If he had focused 100% on music he might have gotten himself together.
Logged
Member of the Anaheim Azusa and Cucamonga sewing circle book review and timing association (the double-ACASSN).
Sound of Free
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 439
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #4 on:
May 26, 2015, 10:31:46 PM »
If the Dennis-Shawn relationship had never happened, I can see it. But I don't know if they ever could have gotten past that.
Logged
Ang Jones
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 559
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #5 on:
May 27, 2015, 03:31:15 AM »
Had Dennis still been around I think he would either have gone it alone or perhaps joined Brian. Of course it would have changed the balance of the Beach Boys votes too. Had Dennis and Al voted with Brian, perhaps they would have had the name. Hard to imagine Mike and Bruce being as successful without the name of the Beach Boys but perhaps they would have still tried to keep it going.
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 10063
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #6 on:
May 27, 2015, 05:59:12 AM »
Considering Mike still apparently has varying degrees of problems having a sunshine-y relationship with Brian and Al, and especially considering what the end of C50 showed us, while it indeed matters not one bit considering how things went down with Dennis, I'd guess that Dennis and Mike probably never would have fully overcome whatever BS was between them. As with Brian or Al or C50, there may have been some "up" times when the tension and acrimony was put aside or suppressed.
But considering how much some of these guys *haven't* overcome personality BS and ego and all of that after 53+ years in the business, I wouldn't feel comfortable assuming Dennis and Mike would have been more likely to overcome all of that.
Logged
THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!!
http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion
- Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog -
http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
Smilin Ed H
Guest
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #7 on:
May 27, 2015, 06:04:29 AM »
Well they wrote some great stuff together - though I don'y know if Mike ever got in a room with Dennis...
Logged
KDS
Guest
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #8 on:
May 27, 2015, 07:35:14 AM »
I agree that Dennis likely wouldn't be in current version of The Beach Boys.
Dennis wrote a lot of ballads in the 70s, and between Brian's classic ballads, and the ones Dennis brought to the table, I think that would be too much for Mike and his primarily upbeat surf / car shows.
And I think Dennis would've grown tired of getting to sing lead on only one song per night like he did towards the tail end.
Logged
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4265
Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #9 on:
May 27, 2015, 08:28:11 AM »
Quote from: Ang Jones on May 27, 2015, 03:31:15 AM
Had Dennis still been around I think he would either have gone it alone or perhaps joined Brian. Of course it would have changed the balance of the Beach Boys votes too. Had Dennis and Al voted with Brian, perhaps they would have had the name. Hard to imagine Mike and Bruce being as successful without the name of the Beach Boys but perhaps they would have still tried to keep it going.
Dennis sold his vote to cover debts several years before he died. He had no say at a corparate level which is why his estate doesn't get to vote on BRI related issues today while Carl's does.
Logged
I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
Cliff1000uk
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 410
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #10 on:
May 27, 2015, 09:04:52 AM »
Quote from: Mike's Beard on May 27, 2015, 08:28:11 AM
Quote from: Ang Jones on May 27, 2015, 03:31:15 AM
Had Dennis still been around I think he would either have gone it alone or perhaps joined Brian. Of course it would have changed the balance of the Beach Boys votes too. Had Dennis and Al voted with Brian, perhaps they would have had the name. Hard to imagine Mike and Bruce being as successful without the name of the Beach Boys but perhaps they would have still tried to keep it going.
Dennis sold his vote to cover debts several years before he died. He had no say at a corparate level which is why his estate doesn't get to vote on BRI related issues today while Carl's does.
I was about to make the same point but then remembered that Dennis' share was sold just after his death by his estate. I get the impression that times were hard for all of them around this time (except Bruce!). Mike filed for bankruptcy, I think, in 1983.
Maybe if Dennis had cleaned up and toured, his debts could have been cleared, although I don't know how much he was in debt at the time of his death.
I like to think that he would have continued until Carl's death and then joined Brian's band and been involved in the C50 tour
Can you imagine a 68 year old clean shaven Dennis singing YASB at The Albert Hall?
In terms of overcoming any issues with Mike, he loved him as his cousin but creatively, I think he would have hated what the BBs became in the late 80s onwards.
Apart from the cheerleaders.
And the Baywatch actresses.
He definitely would have hated Home Improvement!
Logged
KDS
Guest
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #11 on:
May 27, 2015, 09:23:12 AM »
Quote from: Cliff1000uk on May 27, 2015, 09:04:52 AM
Quote from: Mike's Beard on May 27, 2015, 08:28:11 AM
Quote from: Ang Jones on May 27, 2015, 03:31:15 AM
Had Dennis still been around I think he would either have gone it alone or perhaps joined Brian. Of course it would have changed the balance of the Beach Boys votes too. Had Dennis and Al voted with Brian, perhaps they would have had the name. Hard to imagine Mike and Bruce being as successful without the name of the Beach Boys but perhaps they would have still tried to keep it going.
Dennis sold his vote to cover debts several years before he died. He had no say at a corparate level which is why his estate doesn't get to vote on BRI related issues today while Carl's does.
I was about to make the same point but then remembered that Dennis' share was sold just after his death by his estate. I get the impression that times were hard for all of them around this time (except Bruce!). Mike filed for bankruptcy, I think, in 1983.
Maybe if Dennis had cleaned up and toured, his debts could have been cleared, although I don't know how much he was in debt at the time of his death.
I like to think that he would have continued until Carl's death and then joined Brian's band and been involved in the C50 tour
Can you imagine a 68 year old clean shaven Dennis singing YASB at The Albert Hall?
In terms of overcoming any issues with Mike, he loved him as his cousin but creatively, I think he would have hated what the BBs became in the late 80s onwards.
Apart from the cheerleaders.
And the Baywatch actresses.
He definitely would have hated Home Improvement!
I think Dennis would've hit on the cheerleaders, Baywatch actresses, and that girl who played Heidi on Home Improvement.
I wonder if he would've been able to repair the damage done to his voice. If so, we may have seen a transformation of Dennis's voice similar to Brian's.
Logged
SamMcK
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 584
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #12 on:
May 27, 2015, 09:57:11 AM »
I hate to say it, but I think if Denny hadn't drowned he would have died at some point later on, possibly a few years later. I wouldn't have thought he would have been able to change too much the way he was headed.
I'm almost certain that Dennis and Brian would have gotten even closer if he had managed to live into the mid-90's and beyond. I can't even imagine a world where there both alive and Carl isn't though.
Logged
urbanite
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 863
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #13 on:
May 27, 2015, 12:05:58 PM »
I doubt that Mike could ever fully get over that Dennis had fooled around with his wife, if that rumor is true, and I wouldn't blame Mike. But if Dennis had fully cleaned himself up and been a productive songwriter, and made major contributions to the recording side of the group, they might have had a working relationship, albeit a strained one.
Logged
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 5749
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #14 on:
May 27, 2015, 05:38:20 PM »
Quote from: Sound of Free on May 26, 2015, 10:31:46 PM
If the Dennis-Shawn relationship had never happened, I can see it. But I don't know if they ever could have gotten past that.
I tend to agree with this statement, sad as it is. I wonder what Mike's feelings were regarding that relationship.
Does anyone think that a cleaned-up Dennis and Mike could have had a non-strained and artistically compatible relationship in the 1980s and beyond? Curious what Kokomoaists think about that. I just don't think it could have been possible, since Denny was so forward-pushing in his art - unless that progressive urge in him would have greatly subsided had he had gotten sober and lived, which I find unlikely. I think that something would have had to give, and that one of them would have exited the band either willingly or not, over creative and /or personal differences - or if not, then there would have been endless head-butting, with both men unhappy working with each other. I'd love to think that Denny could have gotten Mike to never have gone down the SIP road, and gotten more progressive material out of him, but I'm not sure that would have happened. Damn, I wish all the Wilson bros were still around.
«
Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 05:46:47 PM by CenturyDeprived
»
Logged
SurferDownUnder
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 240
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #15 on:
May 27, 2015, 09:02:56 PM »
Quote from: CenturyDeprived on May 27, 2015, 05:38:20 PM
Quote from: Sound of Free on May 26, 2015, 10:31:46 PM
If the Dennis-Shawn relationship had never happened, I can see it. But I don't know if they ever could have gotten past that.
I tend to agree with this statement, sad as it is. I wonder what Mike's feelings were regarding that relationship.
Well in Gaines book, it does say how Dennis was torn over his relationship with Shawn, he loved Gage but knew Shawn was some bad news. Very sad chapter of Dennis's life, I wonder what happened to Chris Clark?
Logged
retrokid67
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 858
Denny the Dream
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #16 on:
May 27, 2015, 11:13:52 PM »
It would've been interesting to see Denny's reaction to Mike's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame speech
Logged
"In this new day, change your heart. Forgive your brother, for life is precious."
-Dennis Wilson
Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 1565
SMiLE is America: Infinite Potential Never Reached
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #17 on:
May 28, 2015, 01:26:52 AM »
Quote from: retrokid67 on May 27, 2015, 11:13:52 PM
It would've been interesting to see Denny's reaction to Mike's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame speech
the lawsuits too, considering how protective he was of Brian. Especially the 2004 one, I can see that igniting a big public feud between the two.
Logged
Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.
Aquarian SMiLE>
HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>
HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>
HERE
& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>
HERE
[
Ang Jones
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 559
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #18 on:
May 28, 2015, 01:38:39 AM »
Quote from: Mike's Beard on May 27, 2015, 08:28:11 AM
Quote from: Ang Jones on May 27, 2015, 03:31:15 AM
Had Dennis still been around I think he would either have gone it alone or perhaps joined Brian. Of course it would have changed the balance of the Beach Boys votes too. Had Dennis and Al voted with Brian, perhaps they would have had the name. Hard to imagine Mike and Bruce being as successful without the name of the Beach Boys but perhaps they would have still tried to keep it going.
Dennis sold his vote to cover debts several years before he died. He had no say at a corparate level which is why his estate doesn't get to vote on BRI related issues today while Carl's does.
True but we're discussing an alternative scenario where Dennis had survived and that survival would realistically depend on Dennis having cleaned up his act several years in advance of 1983.
Logged
Jay
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 5985
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #19 on:
May 28, 2015, 01:46:02 AM »
I think as soon as Dennis psychically attacked Mike in front of thousands of people at that 1979 show, relations between them were pretty much screwed beyond repair.
Logged
A son of anarchy surrounded by the hierarchy.
Smilin Ed H
Guest
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #20 on:
May 28, 2015, 01:46:17 AM »
Quote from: urbanite on May 27, 2015, 12:05:58 PM
I doubt that Mike could ever fully get over that Dennis had fooled around with his wife, if that rumor is true, and I wouldn't blame Mike. But if Dennis had fully cleaned himself up and been a productive songwriter, and made major contributions to the recording side of the group, they might have had a working relationship, albeit a strained one.
Didn't he fool around with evdryone's wife and wouldn't Mike have just moved in to another one?
Logged
SurferDownUnder
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 240
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #21 on:
May 28, 2015, 04:42:21 AM »
Quote from: Ognir Rrats on May 28, 2015, 01:46:02 AM
I think as soon as Dennis psychically attacked Mike in front of thousands of people at that 1979 show, relations between them were pretty much screwed beyond repair.
Plus when they went off stage before coming back on, someone *cough Mike cough* kicked Denny in the balls
Logged
The LEGENDARY OSD
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 1948
luHv Estrangement Syndrome. It's a great thing!
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #22 on:
May 28, 2015, 06:55:17 AM »
Quote from: Ognir Rrats on May 28, 2015, 01:46:02 AM
I think as soon as Dennis psychically attacked Mike in front of thousands of people at that 1979 show, relations between them were pretty much screwed beyond repair.
Yeah, and it's too damn bad that Denny didn't finish the job.
Logged
myKe luHv, the most hated, embarrassing clown the world of music has ever witnessed.
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 17767
The triumph of The Hickey Script !
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #23 on:
May 28, 2015, 08:53:13 AM »
Quote from: Mike's Beard on May 27, 2015, 08:28:11 AM
Quote from: Ang Jones on May 27, 2015, 03:31:15 AM
Had Dennis still been around I think he would either have gone it alone or perhaps joined Brian. Of course it would have changed the balance of the Beach Boys votes too. Had Dennis and Al voted with Brian, perhaps they would have had the name. Hard to imagine Mike and Bruce being as successful without the name of the Beach Boys but perhaps they would have still tried to keep it going.
Dennis sold his vote to cover debts several years before he died. He had no say at a corparate level which is why his estate doesn't get to vote on BRI related issues today while Carl's does.
Slightly incorrect: Dennis' estate sold his vote back to BRI after his death in exchange for a reduction of his debts.
Logged
The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4265
Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!
Re: Does anyone think Denny + Mike could have overcome creative/personal issues?
«
Reply #24 on:
May 28, 2015, 09:57:21 AM »
Ahhh, it was his
boat
he sold to pay off debts.
Logged
I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
Pages:
[
1
]
2
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> BRIAN WILSON Q & A
=> Welcome to the Smiley Smile board
=> General On Topic Discussions
===> Ask The Honored Guests
===> Smiley Smile Reference Threads
=> Smile Sessions Box Set (2011)
=> The Beach Boys Media
=> Concert Reviews
=> Album, Book and Video Reviews And Discussions
===> 1960's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1970's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1980's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1990's Beach Boys Albums
===> 21st Century Beach Boys Albums
===> Brian Wilson Solo Albums
===> Other Solo Albums
===> Produced by or otherwise related to
===> Tribute Albums
===> DVDs and Videos
===> Book Reviews
===> 'Rank the Tracks'
===> Polls
-----------------------------
Non Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> General Music Discussion
=> General Entertainment Thread
=> Smiley Smilers Who Make Music
=> The Sandbox
Powered by SMF 1.1.21
|
SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.583 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi
design by
Bloc
Loading...