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Author Topic: If Mike wasn't in the band...  (Read 28216 times)
Ang Jones
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« Reply #300 on: May 26, 2015, 03:46:04 AM »

Mike was above all interested in the band remaining a commercial proposition so perhaps there were times when he wanted to do newer material. I first saw The Beach Boys in concert in 1970, and then in 1972 and in both years they were doing things from their current albums as well as material from Sunflower and some earlier material and Mike was making jokey comments about 'mouldy oldies'. In 1972 I remember the crowd yelling for Surf's Up in one of their shows though and they deliberately misheard and gave us Surfin' USA so I don't get the impression they were  even at this time always  as behind the new material as some are suggesting. If you can call Surf's Up new. It dated from the 60s but had only been released in 1971.  And not just another song about summer.

Of course, the situation in the UK is different to the US.  I don't know if the newer stuff was as popular there as here.

I would be surprised if Mike was other than relieved when American Graffiti and the subsequent release of Endless Summer gave him the opportunity to continue playing those songs from the early/mid 60s. It is unfair to suggest that Mike's liking of this material is a myth based on revisionist history. One only has to look at the set lists of BB shows. Some so called deeper cuts but most of it is 1966 and before.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 03:58:17 AM by Ang Jones » Logged
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« Reply #301 on: May 26, 2015, 04:15:55 AM »

When Mike deviated from the old days, he was not so well received.  Remember the Maharishi tour?
Ya got that right!  Wink
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« Reply #302 on: May 26, 2015, 04:42:54 AM »

I think the live shows to Mike are very simply a case of giving people what he thinks they want and he's probably in a better position to judge what that is than most of us are (and it looks like Brian judges things in a pretty similar way). I'd love it if the live shows had always presented what I think is the best side of the band, but that's totally unrealistic. Almost all big acts return to the songs that people know, and why wouldn't they? If I'd been at a show in 1992 and Wouldn't It Be Nice and Don't Worry Baby had been cut so that they could play the Summer in Paradise album in full I'd have been pretty upset, and that same feeling would probably apply to some people attending and not hearing Barbara Ann. The point about failing to generate new hits to add into the mix seems pretty crucial to me, as it's pretty impossible to generate interest in oldie that few in the crowd know just through playing it at live shows (where all but the die-hards will probably hear it once). It's a shame they didn't get lucky with an deeper cut making it into a big film at some point (which could have had a similar effect to the Stamos-forever thing, only without Stamos).
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Ang Jones
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« Reply #303 on: May 26, 2015, 04:46:38 AM »

When Mike deviated from the old days, he was not so well received.  Remember the Maharishi tour?
Ya got that right!  Wink

But the Maharishi tour wasn't just about the music.  Beach Boys' fans attend concerts for the music,  not to learn about TM.
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« Reply #304 on: May 26, 2015, 04:50:24 AM »

When Mike deviated from the old days, he was not so well received.  Remember the Maharishi tour?
Ya got that right!  Wink
But the Maharishi tour wasn't just about the music.  Beach Boys' fans attend concerts for the music,  not to learn about TM.
Whatever it was, I had an open mind and a ticket.   Wink
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« Reply #305 on: May 26, 2015, 08:21:03 AM »

When Mike deviated from the old days, he was not so well received.  Remember the Maharishi tour?
Ya got that right!  Wink
But the Maharishi tour wasn't just about the music.  Beach Boys' fans attend concerts for the music,  not to learn about TM.
Whatever it was, I had an open mind and a ticket.   Wink

I'd have gone if I'd had the chance but it was shortly before I became a fan. This doesn't enthuse me much however: "Each concert began with a lengthy, unintelligible lecture by the Hindu preacher. The tour was a financial disaster for the Beach Boys. Twenty-four tour dates were subsequently cancelled at a cost estimated at $250,000 for the band." - See more at: http://www.mtvindia.com/thebuzz/this-day-in-music/tdim-the-beach-boys-opened-their-us-tour-with-maharishi-mahesh-yogi-in-1968-3rd-may-52190925.html#sthash.iQBkIwbl.dpuf

« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 08:23:20 AM by Ang Jones » Logged
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« Reply #306 on: May 26, 2015, 08:46:38 AM »

When Mike deviated from the old days, he was not so well received.  Remember the Maharishi tour?
Ya got that right!  Wink
But the Maharishi tour wasn't just about the music.  Beach Boys' fans attend concerts for the music,  not to learn about TM.
Whatever it was, I had an open mind and a ticket.   Wink

I'd have gone if I'd had the chance but it was shortly before I became a fan. This doesn't enthuse me much however: "Each concert began with a lengthy, unintelligible lecture by the Hindu preacher. The tour was a financial disaster for the Beach Boys. Twenty-four tour dates were subsequently cancelled at a cost estimated at $250,000 for the band." - See more at: http://www.mtvindia.com/thebuzz/this-day-in-music/tdim-the-beach-boys-opened-their-us-tour-with-maharishi-mahesh-yogi-in-1968-3rd-may-52190925.html#sthash.iQBkIwbl.dpuf



I was there. Sad, unfortunate event in which they made fools of themselves. Being that they were the BBs and Carl sang Friends so damn well, I kinda brushed off the Mahagoofball thing. Cheesy
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« Reply #307 on: May 26, 2015, 01:26:28 PM »


I would be surprised if Mike was other than relieved when American Graffiti and the subsequent release of Endless Summer gave him the opportunity to continue playing those songs from the early/mid 60s. 

This.
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« Reply #308 on: May 26, 2015, 01:36:07 PM »


You could definitely say Dennis was just as guilty for the drama as Mike, but my point was that their personalities clashed and like it or not, Dennis was writing better material in the Seventies so with hindsight he's the horse they should have backed. I think you could make a solid argument that he would have been more under control without someone who grated on him around all the time. But maybe Im wrong.


You're saying Michael made Dennis take drugs?

Kokomaoists (most probably especially including Mike) would love, love, love to think this is an absolute, utter impossibility. But face facts: while one cannot exactly go "blaming" someone else for an emotionally sensitive/messed-up addicted person falling further off the wagon and taking drugs, it seems quite plausible that someone who was probably the thorn in Dennis' side in many ways would have indirectly been a contributing factor to said addicted person's increased substance usage.

For example, if you knew someone in your own life who had a substance problem, but perhaps that person had it under control somewhat, but there were very sensitive raw spots that if unnerved could cause them severe stress, you might observe from experience just what emotional buttons that you could press with them that could indirectly cause them to fall further into their addiction and increase them turning to their coping mechanisms, even if completely unintentional. Sort of like how Dennis acting out and likely making Mike incredibly stressed/embarrassed onstage probably caused Mike to markedly increase the amount of TM he practiced, falling further into his own "addiction" - even though it's not a quantifiably destructive addiction, it's an addiction nonetheless.  

Does that mean "Dennis made Michael do TM"? Well, not exactly. But in both cases (Mike and Dennis falling further into their coping mechanisms of addictions due to their severe creative and personal clashing) most likely...sorta kinda, in a way, yes. Just to admit this has some truth to it does not mean that anybody has to be vilified.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 01:39:54 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #309 on: May 26, 2015, 01:37:28 PM »

When Mike deviated from the old days, he was not so well received.  Remember the Maharishi tour?
Ya got that right!  Wink
But the Maharishi tour wasn't just about the music.  Beach Boys' fans attend concerts for the music,  not to learn about TM.
Whatever it was, I had an open mind and a ticket.   Wink

I'd have gone if I'd had the chance but it was shortly before I became a fan. This doesn't enthuse me much however: "Each concert began with a lengthy, unintelligible lecture by the Hindu preacher. The tour was a financial disaster for the Beach Boys. Twenty-four tour dates were subsequently cancelled at a cost estimated at $250,000 for the band." - See more at: http://www.mtvindia.com/thebuzz/this-day-in-music/tdim-the-beach-boys-opened-their-us-tour-with-maharishi-mahesh-yogi-in-1968-3rd-may-52190925.html#sthash.iQBkIwbl.dpuf



I was there. Sad, unfortunate event in which they made fools of themselves. Being that they were the BBs and Carl sang Friends so damn well, I kinda brushed off the Mahagoofball thing. Cheesy

I spoke to someone else who went to one of the shows...let's just say he was much less charitable than you were LOL
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« Reply #310 on: May 26, 2015, 01:39:35 PM »


You could definitely say Dennis was just as guilty for the drama as Mike, but my point was that their personalities clashed and like it or not, Dennis was writing better material in the Seventies so with hindsight he's the horse they should have backed. I think you could make a solid argument that he would have been more under control without someone who grated on him around all the time. But maybe Im wrong.


You're saying Michael made Dennis take drugs?

Kokomaoists (most probably especially including Mike) would love, love, love to think this is an absolute, utter impossibility. But face facts: while one cannot exactly go "blaming" someone else for an emotionally sensitive/messed-up addicted person falling further off the wagon and taking drugs, it seems quite plausible that someone who was probably the thorn in Dennis' side in many ways would have indirectly been a contributing factor to said addicted person's increased substance usage.

For example, if you knew someone in your own life who had a substance problem, but perhaps that person had it under control somewhat, but there were very sensitive raw spots that if unnerved could cause them severe stress, you might observe from experience just what emotional buttons that you could press with them that could indirectly cause them to fall further into their addiction and increase them turning to their coping mechanisms, even if completely unintentional. Sort of like how Dennis acting out and likely making Mike incredibly stressed/embarrassed onstage probably caused Mike to markedly increase the amount of TM he practiced, falling further into his own "addiction" - even though it's not a quantifiably destructive addition, it's an addition nonetheless. 

Does that mean "Dennis made Michael do TM"? Well, not exactly. But in both cases, most likely...sorta kinda, in a way, yes. Just to admit this has some truth to it does not mean that anybody has to be vilified.

Ehh..not quite the same thing. Although I'm not a TM guy myself, I have a close friend (unrelated to the BB world,  I must stress) who would disagree with you.
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« Reply #311 on: May 26, 2015, 01:42:01 PM »


You could definitely say Dennis was just as guilty for the drama as Mike, but my point was that their personalities clashed and like it or not, Dennis was writing better material in the Seventies so with hindsight he's the horse they should have backed. I think you could make a solid argument that he would have been more under control without someone who grated on him around all the time. But maybe Im wrong.


You're saying Michael made Dennis take drugs?

Kokomaoists (most probably especially including Mike) would love, love, love to think this is an absolute, utter impossibility. But face facts: while one cannot exactly go "blaming" someone else for an emotionally sensitive/messed-up addicted person falling further off the wagon and taking drugs, it seems quite plausible that someone who was probably the thorn in Dennis' side in many ways would have indirectly been a contributing factor to said addicted person's increased substance usage.

For example, if you knew someone in your own life who had a substance problem, but perhaps that person had it under control somewhat, but there were very sensitive raw spots that if unnerved could cause them severe stress, you might observe from experience just what emotional buttons that you could press with them that could indirectly cause them to fall further into their addiction and increase them turning to their coping mechanisms, even if completely unintentional. Sort of like how Dennis acting out and likely making Mike incredibly stressed/embarrassed onstage probably caused Mike to markedly increase the amount of TM he practiced, falling further into his own "addiction" - even though it's not a quantifiably destructive addition, it's an addition nonetheless.  

Does that mean "Dennis made Michael do TM"? Well, not exactly. But in both cases (Mike and Dennis falling further into their coping mechanisms of addictions due to their severe creative and personal clashing) most likely...sorta kinda, in a way, yes. Just to admit this has some truth to it does not mean that anybody has to be vilified.

Ehh..not quite the same thing. Although I'm not a TM guy myself, I have a close friend (unrelated to the BB world,  I must stress) who would disagree with you.

I'm not in any way equating doing drugs to doing TM. I'm just saying that both people fell  further into their own coping mechanisms which blocked out the outside world; coping mechanisms which helped remove the negative energy both men in part experienced due the people (each other) who were severe stressors in each others' lives (and who truthfully, after a certain point, because of such severe differences, should not have been working together at all).

Doing tons of blow is certainly a hell of lot worse than doing TM, no argument there. Doesn't invalidate my point though.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 01:45:05 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #312 on: May 26, 2015, 02:10:02 PM »

Do some of you think the Maha Tour and the TM influences and perceived problems from it are Dennis' fault because he forced everyone into following the Maha?
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« Reply #313 on: May 26, 2015, 02:22:09 PM »

Do some of you think the Maha Tour and the TM influences and perceived problems from it are Dennis' fault because he forced everyone into following the Maha?

I think it's Jesus' fault for inventing rock and roll
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« Reply #314 on: May 26, 2015, 02:23:45 PM »

Do some of you think the Maha Tour and the TM influences and perceived problems from it are Dennis' fault because he forced everyone into following the Maha?

Once again... You love twisting words in a misguided sarcastic attempt at proving a "point". I went out of my way to say that it isn't a person's "fault" if one person is driven to certain coping mechanisms. People are obviously responsible for what actions they themselves do. But there is still a correlation.  

Implying such extremes such as the Maharishi tour is ridiculous. That is many, many steps removed from the source. Setting up an entire tour, planning it out, coordinating schedules, trying to ride a famous figure's coattails, etc is not on par with a "quick fix" coping mechanism that could be achieved with relatively immediate results.

Saying that people who were thorns in Mike's side probably were *a* contributing factor helping to increase Mike's falling deeper and deeper into TM as a coping mechanism does not seem like an absurd statement to make - does that seem absurd to you? Do you honestly think that Mike didn't increase how often he did TM in part as a result of the chaos and chaos-causing people around him (and probably specific embarrassing onstage incidents like when Dennis grabbed and removed Mike's hat)? That in no way is a giant leap to assume.
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« Reply #315 on: May 26, 2015, 03:27:43 PM »

Do some of you think the Maha Tour and the TM influences and perceived problems from it are Dennis' fault because he forced everyone into following the Maha?

I think it's Jesus' fault for inventing rock and roll

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« Reply #316 on: May 26, 2015, 05:04:10 PM »

Dennis didn't start drinking because he fell out with Mike, Mike fell out with Dennis because he couldn't control his drinking problem. F ucking the guy's wife probably didn't help matters....
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« Reply #317 on: May 26, 2015, 05:49:59 PM »

Dennis didn't start drinking because he fell out with Mike, Mike fell out with Dennis because he couldn't control his drinking problem. F ucking the guy's wife probably didn't help matters....

Not sure where anybody made any claims about Dennis "starting" drinking due to Mike. I do agree in part regarding what you say is the reason why Mike fell out with Dennis, though I think that's a simplistic and not particularly nuanced viewpoint to think that's the whole story, don't you? And do you think that it's fair to surmise that Mike probably went deeper into TM in part help deal with the stress of the band and bandmates who gave him grief (which could certainly include the above-mentioned wife-boinking incident)?
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« Reply #318 on: May 26, 2015, 05:53:13 PM »

Dennis didn't start drinking because he fell out with Mike, Mike fell out with Dennis because he couldn't control his drinking problem. F ucking the guy's wife probably didn't help matters....

Not sure where anybody made any claims about Dennis "starting" drinking due to Mike. I do agree in part regarding what you say is the reason why Mike fell out with Dennis, though I think that's a simplistic and not particularly nuanced viewpoint to think that's the whole story. Do you think that it's fair to surmise that Mike probably went deeper into TM in part help deal with the stress of the band and bandmates who gave him grief (which could certainly include the above-mentioned incident)?

And if it wasn't for Dennis, none of the BB would've done TM in the first place.  Razz
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« Reply #319 on: May 26, 2015, 05:55:44 PM »

Dennis didn't start drinking because he fell out with Mike, Mike fell out with Dennis because he couldn't control his drinking problem. F ucking the guy's wife probably didn't help matters....

Not sure where anybody made any claims about Dennis "starting" drinking due to Mike. I do agree in part regarding what you say is the reason why Mike fell out with Dennis, though I think that's a simplistic and not particularly nuanced viewpoint to think that's the whole story. Do you think that it's fair to surmise that Mike probably went deeper into TM in part help deal with the stress of the band and bandmates who gave him grief (which could certainly include the above-mentioned incident)?

And if it wasn't for Dennis, none of the BB would've done TM in the first place.  Razz

Ironically circular, isn't it? Though I have a hunch that they'd have discovered it through other means at some point nonetheless.
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« Reply #320 on: May 26, 2015, 06:03:31 PM »

Don't forget, Dennis introduced the band to TM. Except for Bruce, they were all into it for a time. It didn't quite take hold with Dennis and Brian, but Mike, Al and Carl stuck with it for quite a while. To this day Mike & Al still practice it, while Carl looked to other things. Some people have certain things  that they do to relieve stress, while others struggle to find that certain something.
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