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Author Topic: If Mike wasn't in the band...  (Read 60805 times)
SinisterSmile
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« Reply #250 on: May 23, 2015, 05:42:04 PM »

Murry would be the lead singer if Mike wasn't in the group. and their name would be "The Wilson 4"..(well until his death than they would have broke up)
"Let's go surfin now do be do be do be now, come on safari with me..do be do be do be do do."
"One step to step on the surf board..wa wa ohhhhhhhhhhh"
"She's real nice my 409, do be do be do be 409, my 409"
"When my children grow up to be men."
" Do be do be do, if we were older"
" There's one place that I like to go that's to the Nickelodeon, do be do be do be and we'll watch the show at the nickelodeon."
" And we'll have a swell time until the daddy gets the whip out."


Oh god. LMAO  Grin Grin Grin Grin
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 05:43:30 PM by SinisterSmile » Logged
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« Reply #251 on: May 23, 2015, 07:37:03 PM »

Murry would be the lead singer if Mike wasn't in the group. and their name would be "The Wilson 4"..(well until his death than they would have broke up)
"Let's go surfin now do be do be do be now, come on safari with me..do be do be do be do do."
"One step to step on the surf board..wa wa ohhhhhhhhhhh"
"She's real nice my 409, do be do be do be 409, my 409"
"When my children grow up to be men."
" Do be do be do, if we were older"
" There's one place that I like to go that's to the Nickelodeon, do be do be do be and we'll watch the show at the nickelodeon."
" And we'll have a swell time until the daddy gets the whip out."


Keep An Eye Out For Summer  Wink
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« Reply #252 on: May 23, 2015, 10:40:18 PM »

If this thread were taken for just its title, it might have been interesting - not that this thread isn't interesting - but interesting in a different way.  But given the conceit of the original post, it has devolved in a way one might expect.  Perhaps that was the intention - a troll thread to piss off some "brianistas." 

Though recently I saw the OP, with all due respect to Andrew, call himself a Brianista, so who knows?

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

What might have happened if songs like Til I Die weren't considered "bummers" and were supported?

There are all kinds of speculative paths that are worth thinking about.  The *absolute worst* thing anyone might try to do at this point in time is shut down dialog and claim history as closed on any of these topics.
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« Reply #253 on: May 23, 2015, 11:16:32 PM »

Brian's 'band' certainly gives us the chance to HEAR what it would sound like w/o Mike.  Imo...it sounds significantly better with Al.  THat's now...and it is LIKELY true since 1988.  One For the Boys proves something.  So too does BWPS.  If Mike wasn't in the band?

Generally...He isn't.
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« Reply #254 on: May 24, 2015, 02:14:28 AM »


A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67? 

Mike would get kicked out just for not being 100% behind a few lyrics? Nah.

  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?


I remember my first ever post on this board asked that exact question. However I doubt it ever really came up as despite what acoyltes of Leaf may think the band very much wanted to complete and release Smile. Brian is even quoted as saying the band very nearly broke up as a result of him junking it.
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« Reply #255 on: May 24, 2015, 03:07:25 AM »

It would whittle down Loren Daro's list of negative influences on Brian to two.
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« Reply #256 on: May 24, 2015, 05:48:55 AM »

I know that the libel didn't rise to the heinous level of being called a "cheerleader"

No need for this kind of thing unless it was to drag things even deeper into the muck. It's none of your business.

It isn't but the other half of it was.

I'm good with it now but it did gall a little that it took so long for something so clearly against board standards practices while others were handled so quickly. Anyway, it was handled and thanks.

So quickly? Again, you don't know what you're talking about enough to comment on it, especially publicly on the board so everyone can read it, and beyond that consider using some tact when referencing other situations that have been going on. Because rubbing salt in an open wound is usually not a good way to get people's attention. Neither is getting into other business that is none of your concern.

By quickly I mean that the offending "cheerleader" post was up for 8 hours before action against the poster, the "fellator" posts were numerous, up for months, and (to my understanding) flaunted Moderator advisements. Whatever you are referring to I'm not supposed to know so no I didn't and it still leaves the above. I was commenting publically on a public post and only as a comparison to my public situation, so not rubbing salt or getting into other people's business.  It is also galling to have to defend myself over something that someone else did and could have been resolved with their apology and shouldn't have been tolerated in the first place imo.

That said, you are unhappy with me over a situation someone else created and I am unhappy with you over a situation someone else created but I'm not holding any grudges and I am grateful to the Moderators for handling it.

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« Reply #257 on: May 24, 2015, 08:45:03 AM »

If this thread were taken for just its title, it might have been interesting - not that this thread isn't interesting - but interesting in a different way.  But given the conceit of the original post, it has devolved in a way one might expect.  Perhaps that was the intention - a troll thread to piss off some "brianistas."  

Though recently I saw the OP, with all due respect to Andrew, call himself a Brianista, so who knows?

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

What might have happened if songs like Til I Die weren't considered "bummers" and were supported?

There are all kinds of speculative paths that are worth thinking about.  The *absolute worst* thing anyone might try to do at this point in time is shut down dialog and claim history as closed on any of these topics.

You can bet that if Mike had at any point during the band's history been attempted to be kicked out of the band, that whether via legal, personal, or other means, he would have put up a hell of a fight, and that it would likely have gotten unimaginably nasty.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 08:49:20 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #258 on: May 24, 2015, 09:31:39 AM »

  We can all agree that without Mike Love, The Beach Boys would not have formed in 1961. He is one of the cofounders of the band. The interesting question here is what would have become of the band had Mike left, or been asked to leave, at some point after 1961.

 Hard to see Mike leaving for any reason 1961-66. He was the front man, a major lyricist, and one of two main lead vocalists. All was well. After that, one can imagine him out at a couple of points.

 One is 1967. Fed up with Mike's resistance and emboldened by the brave new world promised by SMiLE, Brian kicks Mike out with the backing of Carl, Dennis, Van Dyke Parks, David Anderle, hell maybe Murry as well.

 1970 - Mike is kicked out after his nervous breakdown. That would have been nasty and hypocritical, btw.

 1972-  Bruce AND Mike are forced to leave in a move engineered by Jack Rieley.

 Hard to imagine Mike leaving at any time post 1972. Had he left at any juncture, The Beach Boys would likely not exist in any shape or form today. Remember, Mike has brought the music to the general public, one endless summer after another, for 53 years.

 Yes, Brian would have gone on to make more music, but The Beach Boys as a band would likely have ceased to exist. Or is that resist?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 03:48:24 PM by Moon Dawg » Logged
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« Reply #259 on: May 24, 2015, 09:56:14 AM »

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« Reply #260 on: May 24, 2015, 10:14:00 AM »

I know that the libel didn't rise to the heinous level of being called a "cheerleader"

No need for this kind of thing unless it was to drag things even deeper into the muck. It's none of your business.

It isn't but the other half of it was.

I'm good with it now but it did gall a little that it took so long for something so clearly against board standards practices while others were handled so quickly. Anyway, it was handled and thanks.

So quickly? Again, you don't know what you're talking about enough to comment on it, especially publicly on the board so everyone can read it, and beyond that consider using some tact when referencing other situations that have been going on. Because rubbing salt in an open wound is usually not a good way to get people's attention. Neither is getting into other business that is none of your concern.

By quickly I mean that the offending "cheerleader" post was up for 8 hours before action against the poster, the "fellator" posts were numerous, up for months, and (to my understanding) flaunted Moderator advisements. Whatever you are referring to I'm not supposed to know so no I didn't and it still leaves the above. I was commenting publically on a public post and only as a comparison to my public situation, so not rubbing salt or getting into other people's business.  It is also galling to have to defend myself over something that someone else did and could have been resolved with their apology and shouldn't have been tolerated in the first place imo.

That said, you are unhappy with me over a situation someone else created and I am unhappy with you over a situation someone else created but I'm not holding any grudges and I am grateful to the Moderators for handling it.



Last time I'm addressing this...one more complaint about this and there will be severe consequences.

Why does the first thing taken care of so quickly, and the other wasn't? Simple...the first one resulted in us getting PMs and notifications from more than one member. The latter? Not a peep from anybody else aside from you. If I had seen the posts and realized it was a pattern, I'd have handled it sooner. As I do have a life with my family and my job outside of this board, I don't have time to read every single post in every single thread. Neither do my fellow mods. I mean, it'll be great if we were omnipotent and could be everywhere at once, but we can't.

Again, this is my last post on the subject, and I consider this matter closed. Any further attempt to bring it up on the board, again, will result in severe consequences.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 03:52:31 PM by ♩♬ Billy C ♯♫♩ » Logged

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« Reply #261 on: May 24, 2015, 11:13:31 AM »



You don't know how badly I want this to be a sitcom!  Grin Grin
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« Reply #262 on: May 24, 2015, 11:30:59 AM »

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

Every SMiLE fanatic, and possibly even every Beach Boy fan period, has asked this question at some point. Realistically it never would have happened. Not the way things had already played out. Ignoring his illness and insecurities, the relative "failure" of Pet Sounds and the Caroline No single probably showed Brian that to leave the band would be a commercial mistake. VDP never would have ousted a Beach Boy. He saw them as a family unit and felt guilty for driving a wedge between them with his work. He never would have turned them against each other willingly, and probably would have bowed out on principle if Brian told him he was choosing SMiLE over his cousin. So, it's a nice thought, but realistically it never would have happened, not either scenario you list. And again, it was primarily Brian who called the shots and decided not to go through with it. Mike and the Boys criticisms almost certainly influenced his decision, but ultimately he was the one who lost track of the big picture, lost faith in his creation, and decided to go in a different direction with it. End of story.
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Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #263 on: May 24, 2015, 11:52:59 AM »

If this thread were taken for just its title, it might have been interesting - not that this thread isn't interesting - but interesting in a different way.  But given the conceit of the original post, it has devolved in a way one might expect.  Perhaps that was the intention - a troll thread to piss off some "brianistas."  

Though recently I saw the OP, with all due respect to Andrew, call himself a Brianista, so who knows?

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

What might have happened if songs like Til I Die weren't considered "bummers" and were supported?

There are all kinds of speculative paths that are worth thinking about.  The *absolute worst* thing anyone might try to do at this point in time is shut down dialog and claim history as closed on any of these topics.
srealist - "ousting Mike" (or any other BB member) would have been the "tail wagging the dog." And a joke.  A writer/lyricist "for hire" has no power or control of a vested member of a corporation. Courage is not a factor.  The band was not a "group for hire" but "owners and operators."  VDP was neither an owner, nor an operator.  These band members were on the road in support of the music.  

Now that SMiLE tracks have been released, I wonder how it could have ever been released in that era short of a triple LP.  

How many kids listening to rock music were going to fork over $10 or $15 or what ever out of their allowance or babysitting money, when they might be buying a couple of LP's a week or month?   How could 12 tracks been picked out for one regular LP? It is easy to say 40 years at least, post, when CD's hold 75 minutes that it should have been released with 30 minutes as single LP.  Even at a double LP, how do you boil SMiLE down to 60 minutes? LP's were the distribution medium. Not CD's or downloads.  Maybe in the alternative a "theme at a time" on one LP in a series fashion, might have worked. I don't know.


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« Reply #264 on: May 24, 2015, 12:00:18 PM »

@Mujan & filledeplage,

Great posts and both pretty much on the money, imho.
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Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #265 on: May 24, 2015, 12:24:35 PM »

If this thread were taken for just its title, it might have been interesting - not that this thread isn't interesting - but interesting in a different way.  But given the conceit of the original post, it has devolved in a way one might expect.  Perhaps that was the intention - a troll thread to piss off some "brianistas."  

Though recently I saw the OP, with all due respect to Andrew, call himself a Brianista, so who knows?

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

What might have happened if songs like Til I Die weren't considered "bummers" and were supported?

There are all kinds of speculative paths that are worth thinking about.  The *absolute worst* thing anyone might try to do at this point in time is shut down dialog and claim history as closed on any of these topics.
srealist - "ousting Mike" (or any other BB member) would have been the "tail wagging the dog." And a joke.  A writer/lyricist "for hire" has no power or control of a vested member of a corporation. Courage is not a factor.  The band was not a "group for hire" but "owners and operators."  VDP was neither an owner, nor an operator.  These band members were on the road in support of the music.  

Now that SMiLE tracks have been released, I wonder how it could have ever been released in that era short of a triple LP.  

How many kids listening to rock music were going to fork over $10 or $15 or what ever out of their allowance or babysitting money, when they might be buying a couple of LP's a week or month?   How could 12 tracks been picked out for one regular LP? It is easy to say 40 years at least, post, when CD's hold 75 minutes that it should have been released with 30 minutes as single LP.  Even at a double LP, how do you boil SMiLE down to 60 minutes? LP's were the distribution medium. Not CD's or downloads.  Maybe in the alternative a "theme at a time" on one LP in a series fashion, might have worked. I don't know.




In no scenario would all that music have come out together. The vast majority of it was playing around with different feels, remixing tracks in a new way, trying out a feel and either making it part of H&V or its own song. I strongly suspect that the original Capitol tracklist is pretty close to what we would have got, in terms of what tracks made the cut. The possible exception being Great Shape, since all we know of that is one verse.

It's pretty well agreed upon that Look and Holidays were scrapped. People seem to forget or disregard the fact that Dada wasnt fleshed out into a full song until just a week or two before the project was canned. I dont think it was ever intended for the album, and I think in Brian's mind the album was dead by this point. Id wager that thats why hes suddenly so happy on those tapes, because it was a huge load off his mind. All the extraneous H&V material was never all going to be used. Most of it would always have ended up on the cutting room floor, he was just experimenting with different skits. Some of it would have made the track, some of the better outtakes would have made the B-side. End of story. All the other little ditties like With Me Tonight were failed attempts at Heroes skits or working ideas he just wanted to get on tape to flesh out into their own songs at another point. They were recorded at the time but not part of the original 1966 visions, he just didnt want to lose that inspiration. Tones was probably Carl trying to fill the void left by the abandoned Elements to speed up the process since it was obvious Brian was losing his grip on the thing. Cool cool water and Cant Wait Too Long, as well as the Water Chant are post-SMiLE. So while there's a wealth of material we classify as "The SMiLE Sessions" I think less than half of it ever would have wound up on the real intended album. Thats my analysis.

And before anyone chimes in with the "you cant possibly know for certain" you're right. Im taking an educated guess. And before anyone says "there was no original intended album/structure!" I think you're right to a fault but also vastly simplifying things. Yeah, there was no 100% set in stone album, but to suggest that VDP and Brian didnt have some kind of general outline, as fluid as it may have been, is an insult to them. It also ignores the fact that the Capitol list sums up the major tracks extraordinarily well just at the time when the album seemed on the verge of being finished, and it wasnt until '67 that things got severely muddled again and new material started getting recorded willy nilly with seemingly no thought to how it fit in with the previously recorded songs. It stands to reason that even if the sequence wasnt agreed upon, and even if a few tracks remained unfinished or were likely to be replaced, there was still a core of about 9~10 songs that definitely would have made the cut. So while we look at everything on bootlegs and the boxset and say there's way too much recorded, what was Brian thinking, hed need a triple album...it actually makes sense and there actually was the foundation for a single LP if you really think about it.

/rant
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #266 on: May 24, 2015, 02:48:12 PM »

In no scenario would all that music have come out together. The vast majority of it was playing around with different feels, remixing tracks in a new way, trying out a feel and either making it part of H&V or its own song. I strongly suspect that the original Capitol tracklist is pretty close to what we would have got, in terms of what tracks made the cut. The possible exception being Great Shape, since all we know of that is one verse.

Agreed - though, Great Shape coupled with Barnyard (not on the tracklist) is a longer track.

Quote
People seem to forget or disregard the fact that Dada wasnt fleshed out into a full song until just a week or two before the project was canned. I dont think it was ever intended for the album, and I think in Brian's mind the album was dead by this point. Id wager that thats why hes suddenly so happy on those tapes, because it was a huge load off his mind.

I agree with your point about Dada. But All Day was in the mix in late 66. And importantly, I'm pretty sure that the happiness you are talking about is in reference to the man who is not Brian saying the title and calling the takes. The man behind the voice has been confirmed here on this site (perhaps check in the Love to Say Dada thread in the Smile Box Set section) but I can't remember his name at the moment.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 02:55:08 PM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
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« Reply #267 on: May 24, 2015, 02:50:14 PM »

I can understand the confusion, because I thought it was Brian too for the longest time!
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« Reply #268 on: May 24, 2015, 02:51:42 PM »

I just checked: it's the voice of engineer James Hilton.

Thanks to c-man for the answer.

The question now becomes whether or not he was doing that voice on purpose. It reminds me of that ironic Phil Hartman voice but twenty years earlier.
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« Reply #269 on: May 24, 2015, 04:22:14 PM »

In no scenario would all that music have come out together. The vast majority of it was playing around with different feels, remixing tracks in a new way, trying out a feel and either making it part of H&V or its own song. I strongly suspect that the original Capitol tracklist is pretty close to what we would have got, in terms of what tracks made the cut. The possible exception being Great Shape, since all we know of that is one verse.

Agreed - though, Great Shape coupled with Barnyard (not on the tracklist) is a longer track.

Quote
People seem to forget or disregard the fact that Dada wasnt fleshed out into a full song until just a week or two before the project was canned. I dont think it was ever intended for the album, and I think in Brian's mind the album was dead by this point. Id wager that thats why hes suddenly so happy on those tapes, because it was a huge load off his mind.

I agree with your point about Dada. But All Day was in the mix in late 66. And importantly, I'm pretty sure that the happiness you are talking about is in reference to the man who is not Brian saying the title and calling the takes. The man behind the voice has been confirmed here on this site (perhaps check in the Love to Say Dada thread in the Smile Box Set section) but I can't remember his name at the moment.

For me personally, I think GS and Barnyard were just more abandoned Heroes skits. They only became famous because of the tracklist and demo in Humble Harv, if not for that they'd be as disregarded as With Me Tonight and Mission Pak. Really wish we had that vocal session, cause maybe Im wrong and Great Shape got lengthened into a track, or maybe that session was just rehearsals of that one verse (and maybe a few other tangential Heroes pieces?). If the latter, then I stand by the assertion that whoever wrote the list made a simple mistake including it. It'd make sense for Carl, who would presumably have sung at the vocal session, to misunderstand Brian's intentions and think they were working on a standalone track when really it was just part of Heroes. Who knows.

Yeah, but unless Im very wrong, it was my understanding that All Day was just another Heroes segment that didnt make the cut. It's just unique in that Brian came back to it at the very end of the sessions and made it a song, possibly as a B-side to Heroes or Veggies when the two-sided Heroes wasnt working out. In the tapes for All Day, he says theres gonna be talking during the pauses in the song. Sounds like a comedy skit section to me rather than a full track. Or maybe instead of Great Shape and Barnyard, Great Shape and All Day might have been a track? These two were both included on the Psychedelic Sounds bootleg right? Maybe Brian was working on some comedy bits to use there with his friends that the Boys could rerecord? Interesting idea...
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #270 on: May 24, 2015, 11:09:17 PM »

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

Every SMiLE fanatic, and possibly even every Beach Boy fan period, has asked this question at some point. Realistically it never would have happened. Not the way things had already played out. Ignoring his illness and insecurities, the relative "failure" of Pet Sounds and the Caroline No single probably showed Brian that to leave the band would be a commercial mistake. VDP never would have ousted a Beach Boy. He saw them as a family unit and felt guilty for driving a wedge between them with his work. He never would have turned them against each other willingly, and probably would have bowed out on principle if Brian told him he was choosing SMiLE over his cousin. So, it's a nice thought, but realistically it never would have happened, not either scenario you list. And again, it was primarily Brian who called the shots and decided not to go through with it. Mike and the Boys criticisms almost certainly influenced his decision, but ultimately he was the one who lost track of the big picture, lost faith in his creation, and decided to go in a different direction with it. End of story.

Thank you for your post.  What you say makes a ton of sense.  Where I would dare to disagree is "End of story."
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Smilin Ed H
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« Reply #271 on: May 25, 2015, 01:59:59 AM »


[/quote ]As I do have a life with my family and my job outside of this board, I don't have time to read every single post in every single thread. Neither do my fellow mods. I mean, it'll be great if we were omnipotent and could be everywhere at once, but we can't.

Again, this is my last post on the subject, and I consider this matter closed. Any further attempt to bring it up on the board, again, will result in severe consequences.
[/quote]

Damn. I always saw you as some kind of Galactus-like entity!
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SamMcK
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« Reply #272 on: May 25, 2015, 03:16:33 AM »

Jesus. Now I remembered why I barely post here anymore. It's bad for your blood pressure!

So those Beach Boys are pretty good right? Wink
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #273 on: May 25, 2015, 09:06:16 AM »

A more interesting discussion might be something along the lines of...what might have happened if Brian and VDP had the collective courage/support to scuttle Mike from the band in 66-67?  Or what might have happened if they had decided to take Smile as a BW solo album and released it under a different label?

Every SMiLE fanatic, and possibly even every Beach Boy fan period, has asked this question at some point. Realistically it never would have happened. Not the way things had already played out. Ignoring his illness and insecurities, the relative "failure" of Pet Sounds and the Caroline No single probably showed Brian that to leave the band would be a commercial mistake. VDP never would have ousted a Beach Boy. He saw them as a family unit and felt guilty for driving a wedge between them with his work. He never would have turned them against each other willingly, and probably would have bowed out on principle if Brian told him he was choosing SMiLE over his cousin. So, it's a nice thought, but realistically it never would have happened, not either scenario you list. And again, it was primarily Brian who called the shots and decided not to go through with it. Mike and the Boys criticisms almost certainly influenced his decision, but ultimately he was the one who lost track of the big picture, lost faith in his creation, and decided to go in a different direction with it. End of story.

Thank you for your post.  What you say makes a ton of sense.  Where I would dare to disagree is "End of story."

haha, fair enough. Not trying to silence dissent or anything, just emphasize how next-to-impossible it would have been for Mike to be kicked out over this, and even if he was it wouldnt make a difference in terms of SMiLE's release. For what its worth, I still think it would have been better off if he DID get kicked out around 68 or 69. By then he had written all he songs worth a damn, and all he was good for from then on was stirring up drama and pushing the band in the wrong direction. But I think the only chance for that to happen is the scenario someone else laid out where Jack Riely fires him.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
Mike's Beard
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« Reply #274 on: May 25, 2015, 09:27:42 AM »

But Mike had a hand in plenty of good songs post '69. And until all the lawsuits happened, he couldn't compete with Brian and Dennis in the drama magnet stakes.
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I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
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