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Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Topic: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them? (Read 23412 times)
I. Spaceman
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Revolution Never Again
Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #50 on:
January 07, 2006, 05:16:59 PM »
I love those guys.
Shade Tree Mechanic is the best trashy rocka-bluesa-punka-billy song of the 80's, narrowly but undeniably beating the Cramps' Garbageman.
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Nobody gives a sh*t about the Record Room
Boxer Monkey
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #51 on:
January 07, 2006, 05:21:11 PM »
There was a goodly chunk of recovery time after the breakup of my last serious romantic thing that I spent listening to Tav's "The World We Knew," the album but most esp. the song itself, over and over and over. Love Sinatra's version, of course, but Tav's has so much more personal significance for me -- and some great fuzz bass from LX! It's ghastly, ghoulishly good.
Absolutely adore the Panther Burns. I have a friend who played a fill-in gig as their drummer, and he claims that, after the show, he and Tav strung Alex up by his heels and left him to dangle above the stage!
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dogbreath
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"Foda deal with it!"
Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #52 on:
January 08, 2006, 10:30:27 AM »
I got into Big Star when I bought their first album, the year it came out. I still have that copy, plus the second. Very interesting little label, Ardent.
While I can appreciate why people rate the Third album, I'm a long way past the time when I could, you know,
listen to an artist's pain
. These days, I'd rather play some Duke Ellington, or take the dog for a walk, than listen to more from-the-edge/haunting/damaged/cracked ditties about how f u c k e d - u p the singer/the world is. If that's your thing (and your thing was once mine, dewd) then the Third album is indeed your cup of meat. For simple souls who like songs and beat, however, the first two are just great.
They've always had a following in the UK - getting hold of their albums on import was not unusual. I remember I also liked Blue Ash at the time, but they haven't weathered as well.
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Lester Zombie
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #53 on:
January 08, 2006, 12:21:51 PM »
No one ever mentions "Columbia" the live album by Chilton, Stephens, and the Posies guys. That's what got me interested in Big Star, since that concert happened here in the town where I live. I wasn't there because my love/hate feelings about college students told me not to go. But then when the disc came out, I had to buy it to find out what I missed. I liked what I heard so I got more. I like the first three albums and "Nobody Can Dance". It doesn't give anything new, but it is an enjoyable collection. I haven't heard the new one yet so I have no opinion on it yet.
I also have Chris Bell's "I Am The Cosmos" which is a bit disjointed since it's a collection culled from a number of different sessions, but it does show his dark, melancholy outlook. Big Star was definately a different band without Bell.
So far, I have not heard anything from Big Star that would make me bitch.
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Boxer Monkey
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #54 on:
January 08, 2006, 03:33:49 PM »
Big Star wasn't so much of a different band without Chris Bell, honestly. "O My Soul," "Daisy Glaze" and "Back of a Car" are songs he is believed to have had a hand in writing. In fact, the band recorded versions of several "Radio City" songs with Bell, cut live in the studio (much like the alternate, single version of "In the Street") and mixed in mono, which demonstrates to some degree that the more immediate direction the band would take with "Radio City" (as opposed to the intricate production of "#1 Record") was in part advanced by Bell. Unfortunately, these recordings are gone -- allegedly destroyed by Bell upon his leaving Big Star. John Fry, who owned Ardent Studios and engineered the Big Star records, says the Bell version of "O My Soul" was much better than the one eventually releaed, that the band never recaptured the original, "hot" vibe of the track. (The later version was put out in mono, though.)
Anyway, if you wanna know which songs off "Radio City" were Chris Bell's, check out which songs from that album Alex Chilton hands off to the Posies at the reunion shows. Alex won't sing the Chris Bell stuff. But that's not to say "Radio City" is entirely a Chris Bell-led Big Star effort, either -- the skewed, chaotic vibe that fuels the album could only have come from Chilton. But I think much of the sound was formulated by Bell. But of course "Third" doesn't sound like Bell. It's not even a Big Star album; it's an Alex Chilton solo with Jody Stephens on drums. ("I would probably call it 'Alex Chilton's something or other,'" Chilton once said about "Third.") Either that or a new band consisting of Stephens and Chilton called Sister Lovers. (They even played out under this name at the time.)
Excerpt from a Jeff Buckley interview:
Q: I hear a heavy Big Star influence. You do "Kanga Roo" [from “Third”] live. Was Alex Chilton a hero of yours?
JB: Why, wasn't he everybody's hero? You know how Alex was at the time? Complete mental breakdown in the studio. Absolutely. I cry every time I hear it. It's so simple. It blows away everything I'll ever do.
"Columbia" is a great, fun album. For me, the version of "Don't Lie to Me" on it blows away the one on "#1 Record." I also love the story in Rob Jovanovic's book of how, when it came time to rehearse "I Am the Cosmos" for the Columbia show, Chilton at first begged off, claiming he didn't know it, but when the band eventually ran through it Chilton played "Cosmos" perfectly. He seems to have either enormous respect for Bell or -- if we're to believe Jon Tiven -- maybe feels some sort of guilt for allegedly "stealing" Bell's band.
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I. Spaceman
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Revolution Never Again
Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #55 on:
January 08, 2006, 08:53:24 PM »
Radio City is only missing Chris's voice. Otherwise he's all over that record. One comparison to Sister Lovers makes that apparent.
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Boxer Monkey
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #56 on:
January 09, 2006, 05:17:26 PM »
It's too bad we don't get to hear Chris Bell singing any "Radio City" songs. But I feel like Alex Chilton acquits himself admirably on that album, and, even by that point, he was already surpassing Bell as a guitarist.
Others don't feel that way, though. Read on for more in the Whose-Band-Was-It-Anyway Debate:
Letter to Nashville Scene by Jon Tiven:
I read Edd Hurt’s article about Big Star with great interest, having been somewhat involved with the band and their subsequent post-BS recordings (“Mod Lang,” Sept. 1). With all due respect to Mr. Hurt, he and many others didn’t quite read between the lines of Jovanovic’s bio. Big Star was Chris Bell’s band, period, and if there was any single person who epitomized power pop it was Chris, not Alex. Before meeting and working with Alex Chilton, I was duped into thinking he was the one responsible for the style and greatness of Big Star, and I apologize for whatever contribution I have made to furthering this lie. Ardent Records wanted to make Alex the center of attention as he had an exploitable history as singer in the Box Tops, and Chris Bell was too artistic, intelligent and volatile to be depended upon to do the do. The only reason Big Star’s second album had any kind of power pop resonance was Chris’ presence on the recordings (he had long since left the band by the time the album was issued), and by the time the third (Sister Lovers) album was underway, Alex was trying to emulate Lou Reed—any Beatles references were long gone.
After the group broke up, Chilton dismissed the entire power pop canon as “pukes” (as in regurgitating Beatles) and had no interest in this kind of music until Big Star suddenly loomed large as power pop icons and there was an opportunity to cash in. My own struggles recording Chilton in 1975 made it very clear to me that Alex had no interest in making records that were pop (or even coherent, unfortunately), and although I was able to cobble together a record that had some resemblance to his previous acclaimed work, he was determined to bury his past. Which does link up nicely with Hurt’s quote from Michael Bane regarding Memphis. So should we expect anything tuneful or life-affirming from a post-Chris Bell Big Star? There’s a lot of greatness in the first two Big Star albums, but nothing since has substantiated the iconic treatment of the group or Chilton solo. He got the kudos for the Box Top’s success when the bows should have been taken by the great Dan Penn. Likewise him stealing Chris Bell’s thunder with Big Star, but dead musicians can’t take any bows or complain.
Jon Tiven
Of course, it's not like Tiven doesn't have an ax to grind with Chilton, who, according to Tiven, had one of his bodyguards try to pin him down so Chilton could put out a lit cigarette on his face during Chilton NYC punk days. Tiven told Rob Jovanovic that he broke free, kicked their asses, and that it was the last he's seen Chilton since.
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I. Spaceman
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Revolution Never Again
Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #57 on:
January 09, 2006, 05:47:08 PM »
Great post, man.
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Chris D.
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #58 on:
January 09, 2006, 07:35:57 PM »
Quote
Bell had previously worked on a couple of the songs in Big Star's early repertoire while in the groups Icewater and Rock City, whose personnel had also included Stephens, Terry Manning, Thomas Eubanks, Steve Rhea, Hummel, Vance Alexander, Richard Rosebrough, and eventually Chilton. Recordings from the late 1960s and early 1970s by these groups are included on the Rock City and Rockin' Memphis 1960's–1970's Vol. 1 albums released on Lucky Seven/Rounder Records in 2003.
I found that on Wikipedia. Is it true? There's pre-Big Star Big Star floating around?
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Boxer Monkey
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #59 on:
January 09, 2006, 07:40:29 PM »
Yeah, it's true: "Try Again" is straight from the Rock City sessions, only remixed. A version of "Feel" also is on the Rock City CD.
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trumpet sounds
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #60 on:
January 09, 2006, 07:43:11 PM »
http://www.luckysevenrecords.com/
LS-9209 presents, for the first time ever, the music of ROCK CITY. This group was the immediate precursor to the famous group, BIG STAR, and its members included both Christopher Bell and Jody Stephens of BIG STAR, as well as Thomas Dean Eubanks and Terry Manning. (Alex Chilton replaced Tom Eubanks as singer, and Andy Hummel became the bass player when the group morphed into Big Star.) The ROCK CITY album has long been rumoured to have been recorded, but until now, no one outside of the group has ever heard it! Also included are two tracks from a Thomas Dean Eubanks' solo effort, and one track by ICEWATER, basically the same group as ROCK CITY recording under the different name. Included in the packaging are several never-before-seen photos of all involved, including a shot of Christopher Bell playing live in ROCK CITY!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009WVTK/104-4301678-7946316?v=glance&n=5174
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Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 07:45:02 PM by trumpet sounds
»
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Chris D.
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #61 on:
January 09, 2006, 07:44:04 PM »
Awesome. You have a lot of musical knowledge. It took me a while to warm up to you, but now I always love reading your posts, Boxer. They're an education and I couldn't see either board being too strong without you.
And now I am out of tears.
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I. Spaceman
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Revolution Never Again
Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #62 on:
January 09, 2006, 07:46:48 PM »
Yeah, Boxer's the man. Cool dude royale, with a big heart that sometimes gets obscured by his wicked humor. But bitterness is bred by caring too much, not caring too little.
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Nobody gives a sh*t about the Record Room
Chris D.
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #63 on:
January 09, 2006, 07:49:36 PM »
Precisely, precisely.
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Boxer Monkey
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #64 on:
January 09, 2006, 07:53:00 PM »
Thank you guys so much. And ditto back at you both re: all that nice stuff.
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monkee knutz
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #65 on:
January 09, 2006, 08:02:36 PM »
Has anybody got the Big Star Norton rehearsals & live LP?? Scroll about 1/3 way down... just below my boys- The Hentchmen.
http://www.nortonrecords.com/index2.html
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I. Spaceman
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Revolution Never Again
Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #66 on:
January 09, 2006, 08:07:01 PM »
Yeah, it's really good, in a shambolic way. Great version of T. Rex's Baby Strange.
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Nobody gives a sh*t about the Record Room
Boxer Monkey
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #67 on:
January 09, 2006, 09:03:19 PM »
"Nobody Can Dance" -- the Norton disc -- is a great "for fans" album, although there are a couple of cuts that transcend barrel-scraping status. Chilton's stomp with Big Star through the Box Tops' "The Letter" has historic value, but it's more than a curio -- it's *really great* rock 'n' roll. (Still, it's nothing compared to what he'd do to the song on "Live in London." That guitar solo alone could bring down an airliner! Really, if you wanna hear Chilton cut loose, "Live in London" is the one to get. And it's one of the best "drunk" albums ever.) But, if you're really into Big Star -- and I'm of the opinion that, if you are, you need nothing less than everything (what, me obsessive?) -- you've gotta have "Nobody Can Dance." For starters, it's the only document of a vintage Big Star concert (the second half of the disc, recorded at Memphis' Overton Park in May 1974, the month I was born), and the rehearsals for the WLIR gig come off way better than the actual show released by Rykodisc as "Big Star Live," albeit without that disc's absolutely essential solo acoustic set by Chilton. The only fly in the ointment is new bassist John Lightman, who is a bit wobbly, but Chilton and Stephens are in full flight throughout "Nobody Can Dance." Get it, but only after you already have everything else.
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I. Spaceman
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Revolution Never Again
Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #68 on:
January 09, 2006, 09:40:57 PM »
I LOVE Big Star Live!
"So, Alex, how were those days touring with The Box Tops?"
"Pretty scummy, about as scummy as now...".
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Crow
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #69 on:
October 03, 2006, 02:56:54 PM »
thirteen is one of the most amazing songs i have ever heard!!!
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feelsflow
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #70 on:
July 19, 2014, 10:45:11 AM »
I never do this sort of thread bumping any more, and I see it comes with a warning that it has not been posted in for at least 120 days, and that unless you're sure you want to reply (to these long gone, except for a few posters I know) you should START A NEW TOPIC. Well that answers that about starting new threads, that note is straight from the MODs. So let's stop using "I tried to search this topic first, but couldn't find one" as the opening to so many threads around here. Let the MODs merge them if they see fit, as they did with the xtc place. Let's stop fretting over trivial stuff and be friends to all who visit here. But for Now, I'm making this a Now thread. Fresh and ready to use as you will, or let it drop back to page 25 out of lack of use.
I didn't even find it, RangeRover did, but it's a great read on a Very Great band.
So this can be the new appreciation thread for Big Star - but not anybody else. Alex deserves his own thread. He was much more than this brief stop in his career.
Enjoy, you have the right.
peace, Will
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...if you are honest - you have no idea where childhood ends and maturity begins. It is all endless and all one. ~ P.L. Travers And, let's get this out of the way now, everything I post is my opinion. ~ Will
Lowbacca
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please let me wonder
Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #71 on:
July 20, 2014, 09:42:21 AM »
Big Star - BIG FAN!
That reminds me, there was a new Chilton book released recently. Still haven't gotten around to getting that.. Anyone read it?
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Outtasight!
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #72 on:
July 21, 2014, 01:29:45 PM »
Any views on the In Space album? Pretty enjoyable album with enough big star heritage intact to make it legit for me.
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Mr. Verlander
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #73 on:
July 21, 2014, 01:55:09 PM »
I've just gotten into these guys in the last couple of months. Right now, I'm reading the Rob Jovanovic book; as far as the Chilton book goes, I've read nothing but good things!
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the captain
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Re: Big Star- How the heck did I miss out on them?
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Reply #74 on:
July 21, 2014, 05:22:46 PM »
The semi-recent documentary is worth a watch, too. I'm sure it's mentioned in this thread and I could obviously google the title for you, but, well, there you have it. My uselessness...
(It is worthwhile though.)
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