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Author Topic: What Surf's Up should of been..  (Read 7420 times)
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« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2015, 06:12:54 AM »

I'll admit that the lyrics on SDT sound like they were made up as Mike sang. 

But, in all honesty, if you take away that godawful siren noise, and Mike sang into a microphone instead of a bull horn, it's a pretty good track.  I always wished they just did a straight cover of Riot in Cell Block B. 
First, Mike was "keeping it real" using a bullhorn, as campus police didn't use a mic, they used a bullhorn to disperse crowds, demonstrating.  The bullhorn replicated the sonoric intensity and fear that was the desired result of the police involvement.  One need only look at the demonstrations against law enforcement right now, as an analogy.

Second, it is highly doubtful Mike "made it up, as he went along..."

This song recognized what was going on at the time.  Having been in college at the time, and having witnessed that bullhorn, it added authenticity to the song.   Harsh, but appropriate.
I know the effect Mike was going for, but to me, the bullhorn and lyrics and just.......meh.   CSNY did a much better job with the same source material on "Ohio." 

How about we keep the bullhorn, but lose the sirens?  Or at least a better sounding siren effect? 
Each artist takes a different approach.  The sirens absolutely belong there because they were part of the "sonority of the event." This isn't sugar-coating the event;  it was campus war, not quite as dramatic as a siren used for WWII air raid warning, but could resemble it, in terms of sound.  The intent was, in part, to disperse the crowd, with the sirens. Otherwise, it would not have sounded authentic.

CSNY dealt with the event of the killing on the Ohio campus.  SDT seemed more generalized to include many kinds of demonstrations that were held in that awful era.  Wink
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« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2015, 06:21:45 AM »

I'll admit that the lyrics on SDT sound like they were made up as Mike sang. 

But, in all honesty, if you take away that godawful siren noise, and Mike sang into a microphone instead of a bull horn, it's a pretty good track.  I always wished they just did a straight cover of Riot in Cell Block B. 
First, Mike was "keeping it real" using a bullhorn, as campus police didn't use a mic, they used a bullhorn to disperse crowds, demonstrating.  The bullhorn replicated the sonoric intensity and fear that was the desired result of the police involvement.  One need only look at the demonstrations against law enforcement right now, as an analogy.

Second, it is highly doubtful Mike "made it up, as he went along..."

This song recognized what was going on at the time.  Having been in college at the time, and having witnessed that bullhorn, it added authenticity to the song.   Harsh, but appropriate.


I completely agree.  If I'm just casually flipping through album cut BB tracks, I skip this song along with a few others.

However, when I'm listening to the "Steve Desper approved"  1971 pressing, I always feel the intensity and tension this song provokes. Yes, the "policemen's mothers" part has a cheesy twinge to it, but other than that this song rocks pretty hard. Carl's lead guitar playing fits perfectly and the grooving bass line moves it along and is mixed perfectly.  This song really does rock and hit home on vinyl over even a decent rig.  Over headphones or Apple ear buds, yeah, I can see the cringe worthiness since the emotion is difficult to convey. Give it another shot and you'll be pleasantly surprised.  (This is coming from a twenty year old something who wasn't around during that time, so I have no emotional or life connection to the Vietnam war but I think they do a good job time capsuling that era).
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« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2015, 06:31:33 AM »

I'll admit, I wasn't around during that era.  So, that might effect how I listen to the song. 

Bloodrock's "DOA" uses a siren, but they got an authentic sound effect for their song.  In that case, it adds to the atmosphere of the song.  I'm not sure if the siren on SDT is poorly recorded or not authentic. 

That being said, I do love the way The Beach Boys actually play on the song.  So, I want to make it clear that I'm in no way trashing the song itself. 

Take a Load Off Your Feet is my least favorite Surf's Up track by far. 


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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2015, 06:57:53 AM »

No amount of explanation of the times or how appropriate the sirens and bullhorn are will ever change my opinion of the song. It's a lousy song that completely ruins the flow of an otherwise brilliant album.

I agree KDS, I think the Beach Boys play the song exceptionally well. I think with better lyrics and lack of loud-as-hell siren the song could've actually aged well with time.
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« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2015, 07:17:05 AM »

Take a Load off Your Feet is a fun, innocent song with some nice involvement from Brian. In a way it's pretty close to Vega-Tables and I'm sure the BB knew what they were doing when they decided to include it on Surf's Up.
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« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2015, 08:30:36 AM »

I love the groove Student Demonstration Time hits towards the end. Also with all the sirens wailing I can just shut my eyes and imagine all the stupid hippies getting whumped by the police.
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« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2015, 08:35:08 AM »

<<I love the groove Student Demonstration Time hits towards the end. Also with all the sirens wailing I can just shut my eyes and imagine all the stupid hippies getting whumped by the police.>>

I agree.  This is a great track, and great play on Riot in Cell Block #9.  I wonder if there is an alternate version of this without the bullhorn effect on Mike's vocal.

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« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2015, 08:42:07 AM »

Regarding alternate track lists for albums... I get the idea of compiling them.  What I don't get is the exercise of removing tracks featured on those albums.  Weaknesses on Beach Boys albums from the 70s, to me, are due to what's missing, not what was included.  Albums like Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, Holland, LA Light and Keepin' the Summer Alive benefit greatly from the addition of tracks recorded during those sessions but not included.  In particular, since first hearing LA and KTSA at the time of release, my reaction was, "Nice, but where's the rest of it?"

As for the record in question, the addition of 4th of July and WIBNTLA to Surf's Up turn it from a very good album into a great one.  But I can't think of a single track I'd remove.  They're all gems in their own way. 
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« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2015, 09:12:46 AM »

Take a Load off Your Feet is a fun, innocent song with some nice involvement from Brian. In a way it's pretty close to Vega-Tables and I'm sure the BB knew what they were doing when they decided to include it on Surf's Up.

Wasn't this song originally believed to be a part of Smile at one time? 

You're right, its very close to Vega-Tables, which is probably why I don't like it very much.  I know many disagree, but Vega-Tables might be my least favorite song (excluding the fake studio chatter comedy bits) that the Boys did from their creative era (62-73). 
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« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2015, 10:25:16 AM »



1. Don't Go Near The Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. 4th of July
5. Student Demonstration Time
6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)
8. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again
9. 'Til I Die
10. Surf's Up


Wow. Just Wow.

 Come on. Do you really get a better SURF'S UP by ditching one of Brian's weirdest and greatest art songs and Bruce's greatest hit? I don't think so. Bonus tracks are always welcome but one does not improve the record by taking away. SURF'S UP is one of those rare albums that is undeniably great despite several flaws. Add "WIBNTLA" as a coda after "Surf's Up" and you've got a bona fide baroque pop masterpiece!
Agreed. No need to keep it a 10 track album. Sunflower had 12, SU should've had 12.
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« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2015, 11:22:08 AM »

Regarding alternate track lists for albums... I get the idea of compiling them.  What I don't get is the exercise of removing tracks featured on those albums.  Weaknesses on Beach Boys albums from the 70s, to me, are due to what's missing, not what was included.  Albums like Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, Holland, LA Light and Keepin' the Summer Alive benefit greatly from the addition of tracks recorded during those sessions but not included.  In particular, since first hearing LA and KTSA at the time of release, my reaction was, "Nice, but where's the rest of it?"

As for the record in question, the addition of 4th of July and WIBNTLA to Surf's Up turn it from a very good album into a great one.  But I can't think of a single track I'd remove.  They're all gems in their own way. 

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« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2015, 11:23:58 AM »

Regarding alternate track lists for albums... I get the idea of compiling them.  What I don't get is the exercise of removing tracks featured on those albums.  Weaknesses on Beach Boys albums from the 70s, to me, are due to what's missing, not what was included.  Albums like Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, Holland, LA Light and Keepin' the Summer Alive benefit greatly from the addition of tracks recorded during those sessions but not included.  In particular, since first hearing LA and KTSA at the time of release, my reaction was, "Nice, but where's the rest of it?"

As for the record in question, the addition of 4th of July and WIBNTLA to Surf's Up turn it from a very good album into a great one.  But I can't think of a single track I'd remove.  They're all gems in their own way. 

+1. I wouldn't change or remove a single track on Surf's Up. Just add 4th of July, (Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again, and Barbara and we're gravy.
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2015, 12:12:32 PM »

SDT "should of" never been. It's a rocker but the lyrics are in poor taste and rather offensive. Mike Love really has no business writing protest lyrics.

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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2015, 12:36:33 PM »

I count myself a fan of ADITLOAT; bleak, harkening, haunting, fragile, beautiful.
Agreed. Well said!

I love an opportunity to champion that cut :-))))
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2015, 12:50:40 PM »

SDT "should of" never been. It's a rocker but the lyrics are in poor taste and rather offensive. Mike Love really has no business writing protest lyrics.


SDT "should of" never been. It's a rocker but the lyrics are in poor taste and rather offensive. Mike Love really has no business writing protest lyrics.


Maybe, now with 44 years hindsight. All water under the bridge at this point wouldn't you say?
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« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2015, 03:23:41 PM »

Regarding alternate track lists for albums... I get the idea of compiling them.  What I don't get is the exercise of removing tracks featured on those albums.  Weaknesses on Beach Boys albums from the 70s, to me, are due to what's missing, not what was included.  Albums like Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, Holland, LA Light and Keepin' the Summer Alive benefit greatly from the addition of tracks recorded during those sessions but not included.  In particular, since first hearing LA and KTSA at the time of release, my reaction was, "Nice, but where's the rest of it?"

As for the record in question, the addition of 4th of July and WIBNTLA to Surf's Up turn it from a very good album into a great one.  But I can't think of a single track I'd remove.  They're all gems in their own way. 
sunflower, surfs up and holland were/are solid albums, every album after minus love you is just weak and collections of older cuts and outtakes, thats why I reiterate that holland was their last real lp and love you a BW solo. But I do agree surfs up coulda used two more tracks.
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« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2015, 04:40:33 PM »

SDT is one of the few songs that actually hurts my ears  Undecided
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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2015, 08:10:44 PM »

This is my ideal track listing for Surf's Up:

1. Don't Go Near The Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. Disney Girls (1957)
5. Student Demonstration Time
6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. 'Til I Die
10. Surf's Up

Looks good. And then you add these for bonus tracks:

11)Big Sur (2:36) - Original “Surf's Up” Era Version
12)Sound Of Free (2:24) – Released as a 45
13)Lookin' At Tomorrow (2:00) – Original Unreleased Mix
14)Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again (7:07)
15)'Til I Die (2:54) – Alternate Lyrics
16)H.E.L.P. Is On The Way (2:19) – Original Mix
17)Surf's Up (4:15) – Vocals Only
18)Ol' Movie (4:52)
19)Awake (3:13) – Brian's Demo
20)Fourth Of July (2:05) – Original Mix
21)Fourth Of July (2:09) – Alternate Version
22)Happy Birthday Brian (1:06) - 29th Birthday
23)Hawaii Song (4:02)

And the cd clocks in at 74 minutes and 39 seconds.
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« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2015, 10:15:16 PM »

I have a hard time understanding all the hate around here for SDT, yet the same folks seem to have no problem with the wretched "Don't Go Near the Water", especially as an opening track.  SDT is by no means a great song, but I find it pretty harmless for the most part.  I certainly wouldn't want it as an opener, but I could tolerate it over DGNtW, which has got to be one of the BB's biggest downers.   I remember the first time I listened to the Surfs Up album several years ago, and I'm glad I listened to a few more cuts after DGNtW, because initially I was nearly done with the album part way into that song.
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« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2015, 11:23:07 PM »

I have a hard time understanding all the hate around here for SDT, yet the same folks seem to have no problem with the wretched "Don't Go Near the Water", especially as an opening track.  SDT is by no means a great song, but I find it pretty harmless for the most part.  I certainly wouldn't want it as an opener, but I could tolerate it over DGNtW, which has got to be one of the BB's biggest downers.   I remember the first time I listened to the Surfs Up album several years ago, and I'm glad I listened to a few more cuts after DGNtW, because initially I was nearly done with the album part way into that song.
SDT was actually one of the few BB's tracks I ever heard on our local FM rock station.
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« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2015, 02:20:43 AM »

I have a hard time understanding all the hate around here for SDT, yet the same folks seem to have no problem with the wretched "Don't Go Near the Water", especially as an opening track.  SDT is by no means a great song, but I find it pretty harmless for the most part.  I certainly wouldn't want it as an opener, but I could tolerate it over DGNtW, which has got to be one of the BB's biggest downers.   I remember the first time I listened to the Surfs Up album several years ago, and I'm glad I listened to a few more cuts after DGNtW, because initially I was nearly done with the album part way into that song.

Why? Don't Go Near the Water sounds like classic BB to me, in fact I think it's so catchy it could be a Brian song. Great backing track too!
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« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2015, 03:45:47 AM »

I have a hard time understanding all the hate around here for SDT, yet the same folks seem to have no problem with the wretched "Don't Go Near the Water", especially as an opening track.  SDT is by no means a great song, but I find it pretty harmless for the most part.  I certainly wouldn't want it as an opener, but I could tolerate it over DGNtW, which has got to be one of the BB's biggest downers.   I remember the first time I listened to the Surfs Up album several years ago, and I'm glad I listened to a few more cuts after DGNtW, because initially I was nearly done with the album part way into that song.

Why? Don't Go Near the Water sounds like classic BB to me, in fact I think it's so catchy it could be a Brian song. Great backing track too!

It's a bit unnerving hearing it immediately after "Cool Cool Water" on the twofer!

"DGNTW" is a good example of a BB cut that has grown on me. And now i couldn't live without it. :=) 
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« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2015, 04:20:02 AM »

Stephen Desper has commented about the intentions behind Student Demonstration Time in the past:

I commented on this in my book.  The world was a different place then.  Vietnam war in full gear.  You think the body count is high now?  How about several thousand a week.  Passions were running high, for and against the war, but the stakes were much higher.  Protests happened everywhere, even at Beach Boy concerts.  Carl was tagged to go into the army. Students were being killed on their collage campus' for protesting (and by American soldiers). This is serious stuff!  Although the group's sentiment was anti-war, they did not take a political stand at their concerts.  However, many in the crowd did with signs and chants, even with the ever present armed police monitors.  Michael's song is about keeping your cool when you demonstrate as a student. Listen to the words.  When the record was released this song was very appropos.  Kent State was in the news. Tensions were high.

Michael was moved to make a verbal comment about what was happening at the moment, in this song.  And like the fashions of the day, time moves along and things change. Like bellbottom pants and long hair, the song seems, in the light of today, not to quite fit into our views of things, to be   There are no riots in the streets -- THERE IS NOT DRAFT and soldiers are not dying at a rate of hundred's per day. Beach Boy concerts are not being turned into political statements by their patrons.  Yet the song is part of that album, and always will be. At the time of release it made more sense, so take it in context. Look at old movies of the 40's and 50's. Do you discount their excellence because everyone is smoking in them?  Times change.  King Soloman (of the Bible) had many wives, yet we consider him a wise leader and ponder his words to this day. Customs change too. 

Student Demonstration Time was set in a collage campus assembly field surrounded by stately buildings. Michael took the part of a demonstration organizer giving a lecture to a crowd about "keeping cool" during riots.  You can hear the sirens in the background, and sometimes in your face, reminding us of how involved the issues were.  Michael felt that he could use his influence as a "rock personality" to temper the attitude of some of the youth toward uncivil behavor -- especially by performing the song at key times in concerts -- by delivering this message in a song. 

Rather than putting down the song or skipping over it when you play Surf's Up, try doing a little research into the period of the music.  Do a word search for Kent State and People's park. 

Maybe look at some old news reels.  Try to imagine the smell of tear gas at a rock concert or close your eyes when you listen to SDT and hear the shouting of fans going on all about you with a sense of danger that you could be caught up in a riot and beaten with a police club. Learn to appreciate the song for what it says and tries to do.  I don't thing a surf song or balled is the right medium to convay the thought that Mike had with this song.  I think if you consider the context more you will learn to actually like the song.  ~swd       
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« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2015, 05:16:42 AM »

I have a hard time understanding all the hate around here for SDT, yet the same folks seem to have no problem with the wretched "Don't Go Near the Water", especially as an opening track.  SDT is by no means a great song, but I find it pretty harmless for the most part.  I certainly wouldn't want it as an opener, but I could tolerate it over DGNtW, which has got to be one of the BB's biggest downers.   I remember the first time I listened to the Surfs Up album several years ago, and I'm glad I listened to a few more cuts after DGNtW, because initially I was nearly done with the album part way into that song.

I didn't used to like Don't Go Near the Water, but it's kinda grown on me.  The song's saving grace is really the wordless vocal coda. 
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« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2015, 06:44:09 AM »



1. Don't Go Near The Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. 4th of July
5. Student Demonstration Time
6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)
8. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again
9. 'Til I Die
10. Surf's Up


Wow. Just Wow.

You'd rather have a song about foot care on the album instead of "Disney Girls"?!
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