Why Didn't Dennis Have More Lead Vocals?

[retrokid67]

How is Dennis' voice the weakest in the group when it was his voice that made the harmonies sound so strong?  Even when it was just he, Carl and Al on "Wishing You Were Here" it sounded like all of the BB were on there.  He got the short end of the stick for the Surfs Up album; they could've at least put one of his songs on there but instead we get "Take a Load off Your Feet" and that crappy version of "Riot Cell Block #9". Sometimes, Mike's nasally voice actually makes me cringe, I'd rather listen to Dennis' "post kick in the throat" songs than Mike's over the top nasally vocals.

You do realize that for Dennis to have included his songs on the album then WIBNTLA would have had to end the album. That was the crux of the issue. When he lost on that decision, he pulled his songs. I believe his songs would have been included had he worked with Carl and accepted that Surf's Up would be the album closer.

I know about that, I just didn't want to say it again because I've ranted about that before.  They had no problem supporting Brian, but they didn't want to give that same love and support to Dennis and that's what angers me the most.  His songs were the closet things to Brian's but was shut down by the Love camp and even Brian himself sometimes.  And now Carl of all people?  But then again in the 90s, Carl had to fight to get Dennis' songs put on the compilation album, and for MIC fans had to petition to get WIBNTLA released.  Just the thought of that...

[Mike's Beard]

Why blame other people for Dennis' own decision to pull his songs?

[KDS]

The Beach Boys had a really good problem on their hands with the amount of vocal ability.  So much so, that there's constant debate of who should've sang what. 

I know people complain about Mike's singing, but I think he was a pretty good singer during the creative years (62-73).  Unfortunately, he settled into nasal self parody around 15 Big Ones.  And ,by that point, Dennis's voice, and sadly his health, both were starting to go downhill. 

[Lee Marshall]

Why blame other people for Dennis' own decision to pull his songs?

And the reason Dennis pulled the songs?  A decision which impacted negatively on how Dennis viewed the package from a creative angle and as a result...Dennis pulled his tunes.  Both sides blew it...with Dennis turning out to be the long term loser.  No reason why his song couldn't have followed 'Til I die.  NO resaon why Surf's Up couldn't have led off the album...closed side one or led off side 2.

Generally I like the WIN/WIN choice over the LOSE/LOSE  'option'  every time.

I know...I'm a dreamer.

[Jon Stebbins]

The answer to the topic question is pretty simple. Because his voice was rougher than the other guys. That doesn't mean it wasn't good. But the Beach Boys sound usually relied on sweetness, or at minimum smoothness. Dennis' voice was neither. However, as previously stated, Brian inserted Dennis' sandpaper texture into the harmonies and the result improved the Beach Boys sound, gave them some subtle balls, while the obvious things in the foreground remained smooth and sweet. But the Dennis husk was huge in the emotional impact of the harmonies, and it's very prevalent on most of their best songs. When it's not there the Beach Boys become more precise and less soulful, more perfect and less human. IMO Dennis was the secret weapon lurking within the Beach Boys stacks, and don't think for a minute that Brian didn't know it. It was hard to control, and probably frustrating, but when it worked it gave the Beach Boys a unique power they otherwise did not have.

That being said...I find it funny that a guy who sang lead, or parts of leads, on more than 20 Beach Boys songs seems left out. I know there are some excellent singers, from some really famous and successful bands who never got anywhere near 20 leads.

[Mike's Beard]

Why blame other people for Dennis' own decision to pull his songs?

And the reason Dennis pulled the songs?  A decision which impacted negatively on how Dennis viewed the package from a creative angle and as a result...Dennis pulled his tunes.  Both sides blew it...with Dennis turning out to be the long term loser.  No reason why his song couldn't have followed 'Til I die.  NO resaon why Surf's Up couldn't have led off the album...closed side one or led off side 2.

Generally I like the WIN/WIN choice over the LOSE/LOSE  'option'  every time.

I know...I'm a dreamer.

Carl was the producer and he wanted Surf's Up to close the album. His decision was final. What Dennis did was classic cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Lee Marshall]

True...and...Carl was wrong.

[dcowboys107]

"This Car of Mine" is such a good song and vocal. I can't believe this song doesn't get enough praise and commentary.

"In the Back of My Mind" is easy to discount but it has a magnificent backing track and those final organ notes combines with "it will always beee" are perfect together. Yes, the double tracking is off (in the mono version) and it shouldn't have been too hard to get a decent double track on it (which can be pretty tough I will admit).  I have a feeling that Brian was just happy that Dennis sat still long enough to sing it twice.

Referring to Dennis's contributions to vocal stack, yes, the backing harmonies have so much more edge to them and tension.  Listen to "Help Me, Rhonda" and listen to how Dennis gives it so much soul and emotion. Not to mention "Don't Worry Baby," "Car Crazy Cutie," and others I can't think of at the moment.

My voice is similar to Dennis's in a lot of way so a lot of the times I like to double his part when I'm cruising in the car. It is so cathartic singing those parts.

[SamMcK]

I have to say I do like how Surf's Up closes the album of the same name, it seems like the end of a chapter in Beach Boys history in many ways. You have the last representation of SMiLE from the classic era as well as a trio of Brian compositions. There's just something final about ending it that way, I think Carl made a good decision in that respect. (But goshdarn do I wish those Dennis tracks were there instead of Student Demonstration Time and Lookin' At Tomorrow.)

[drbeachboy]

Why blame other people for Dennis' own decision to pull his songs?

And the reason Dennis pulled the songs?  A decision which impacted negatively on how Dennis viewed the package from a creative angle and as a result...Dennis pulled his tunes.  Both sides blew it...with Dennis turning out to be the long term loser.  No reason why his song couldn't have followed 'Til I die.  NO resaon why Surf's Up couldn't have led off the album...closed side one or led off side 2.

Generally I like the WIN/WIN choice over the LOSE/LOSE  'option'  every time.

I know...I'm a dreamer.

No reason why Dennis couldn't have given in, either. If the album was to be named Surf's Up, then Carl made the correct decision to end the album with it. On all of the Smile threads that's all I read about is how everyone believes the song closes the album. It is that type of song.

[Smile4ever]

I think Dennis was the worst singer in the group, and didn’t become very good at all until 70s. I don’t think he should have had more lead vocals. If anything, he should have had less.

[bluesno1fann]

I think Dennis was the worst singer in the group, and didn’t become very good at all until 70s. I don’t think he should have had more lead vocals. If anything, he should have had less.

I would never say his singing was worse than Mike's, Brian's (from the mid-70's onwards), Bruce or even Al...

[Cabinessenceking]

I prefer Dennis´adult voice, from the 70´s, much more soul and perfect rasp.

Heard God Only Knows live from 1972  in Carnegie Hall?
Dennis sings Bruce´ line in the coda. You´ll understand what im talking about when you hear it.

[Mike's Beard]

True...and...Carl was wrong.

I'd say pulling your songs because you didn't like the proposed tracklisting order was wrong. What if Al insisted that Lookin' At Tomorrow closed the album? Would he be right to pull his 3 songs when Carl said no? What if Bruce demanded that Disney Girls go last or they couldn't have it? Fight to have your artistic say by all means but don't take your ball and go home when you don't get your own way, that's not how bands work. Dennis was a hot headed guy and I bet he regretted holding his songs for ransom later on, especially when Surf's Up sold significantly more copies then Sunflower did.

[CenturyDeprived]

True...and...Carl was wrong.

I'd say pulling your songs because you didn't like the proposed tracklisting order was wrong. What if Al insisted that Lookin' At Tomorrow closed the album? Would he be right to pull his 3 songs when Carl said no? What if Bruce demanded that Disney Girls go last or they couldn't have it? Fight to have your artistic say by all means but don't take your ball and go home when you don't get your own way, that's not how bands work. Dennis was a hot headed guy and I bet he regretted holding his songs for ransom later on, especially when Surf's Up sold significantly more copies then Sunflower did.

True, but perhaps Dennis felt that the song Surf's Up even being on the album was questionable, and possibly exploitative of SMiLE as a piece of art, as Brian seemed to feel too(though he later relented on). Maybe Dennis picked up on that early resistance of Brian's and was just pissed about it.

But even if he was being hot-headed, and it was totally a regretful action in hindsight, I can see how WIBNTLA especially very specifically would have been conceived as an album closer, with the rebirth theme... just as much as Our Prayer was conceived specifically as an album opener. It was important to them as artists, since these were very, very personal and deep artistic statements they were making.

[Mike's Beard]

I think I've read before that Dennis didn't think they should be focusing on a 5 year old song. Thank God he was overruled or we wouldn't have a completed band version of Surf's Up! I like WIBNTLA but it can't compare to Surf's Up - what can?

[Bill30022]

Could the fact that, when he was the drummer, he didn't sing in concerts be a reason?

[CenturyDeprived]

I think I've read before that Dennis didn't think they should be focusing on a 5 year old song. Thank God he was overruled or we wouldn't have a completed band version of Surf's Up! I like WIBNTLA but it can't compare to Surf's Up - what can?

I too have mixed feelings about the use of SU as a standalone track on that album. I adore the living sh*t out of the track, but to know that the artist's intentions and wishes were compromised/modified makes me feel a bit odd about it, in context.

I can see Denny's point, absolutely. He was primarily about pushing forward, artistically speaking - and he took it seriously as hell.  

[drbeachboy]

I think I've read before that Dennis didn't think they should be focusing on a 5 year old song. Thank God he was overruled or we wouldn't have a completed band version of Surf's Up! I like WIBNTLA but it can't compare to Surf's Up - what can?

I too have mixed feelings about the use of SU as a standalone track on that album. I adore the living sh*t out of the track, but to know that the artist's intentions and wishes were compromised/modified makes me feel a bit odd about it, in context.

I can see Denny's point, absolutely. He was primarily about pushing forward, artistically speaking - and he took it seriously as hell. 

The song holds up today and it certainly held it's own in 1971. A great song is a great song and besides when it was released it was new to everyone who bought the record and listened to it. I guess Mike wasn't the only one to disagree with Van Dyke Parks.

[retrokid67]

I prefer Dennis´adult voice, from the 70´s, much more soul and perfect rasp.

Heard God Only Knows live from 1972  in Carnegie Hall?
Dennis sings Bruce´ line in the coda. You´ll understand what im talking about when you hear it.

Plus, Dennis sang "Help Me Rhonda" better than Al ever did...sorry Al fans, I still like the original, it's a classic, but after hearing 3 live versions of Dennis' version...  Jack Reily and Ed Roach have said that there was jealousy within the group toward him during that time.  It seems that they were giving him backlash on Surfs Up for no reason.  I actually don't blame him for taking his songs off, he had every reason to be pissed.

[drbeachboy]

I prefer Dennis´adult voice, from the 70´s, much more soul and perfect rasp.

Heard God Only Knows live from 1972  in Carnegie Hall?
Dennis sings Bruce´ line in the coda. You´ll understand what im talking about when you hear it.

Plus, Dennis sang "Help Me Rhonda" better than Al ever did...sorry Al fans, I still like the original, it's a classic, but after hearing 3 live versions of Dennis' version...  Jack Reily and Ed Roach have said that there was jealousy within the group toward him during that time.  It seems that they were giving him backlash on Surfs Up for no reason.  I actually don't blame him for taking his songs off, he had every reason to be pissed.

Noticed your Dennis quote. Had he heeded it maybe we fans wouldn't have had to wait 20+ years for 4th of July and 40+ years for WIBNTLA. Great songs need not sit in a vault. Both were worth the wait, though.

[Sheriff John Stone]

But even if he was being hot-headed, and it was totally a regretful action in hindsight...

Yes, not just in the loss of the songs that were left off the album and buried, but in the damage that Dennis could've done to brother Brian. Carl was trying to assemble arguably the greatest trifecta of Brian Wilson songs ever to close an album, and Dennis wasn't sensitive to what those songs/that ending could've done (positively) to Brian's reputation and self esteem. Is it possible that Dennis didn't realize how sensitive and fragile Brian was at that time, not realizing his hot-headedness could've sent Brian back to his room! Is it possible, is it possible CenturyDeprived, that Dennis could've been a little less greedy and selfish and thought about his brothers instead of himself?

[CenturyDeprived]

But even if he was being hot-headed, and it was totally a regretful action in hindsight...

Yes, not just in the loss of the songs that were left off the album and buried, but in the damage that Dennis could've done to brother Brian. Carl was trying to assemble arguably the greatest trifecta of Brian Wilson songs ever to close an album, and Dennis wasn't sensitive to what those songs/that ending could've done (positively) to Brian's reputation and self esteem. Is it possible that Dennis didn't realize how sensitive and fragile Brian was at that time, not realizing his hot-headedness could've sent Brian back to his room! Is it possible, is it possible CenturyDeprived, that Dennis could've been a little less greedy and selfish and thought about his brothers instead of himself?

Hardy har har.

I highly doubt that Denny was being "greedy and selfish" considering that BRIAN himself did not want SU on the record... but, Brian was talked/pushed/coerced into it, or depending how you feel, just went ahead and said ok in the end (yes, even doing a touch of vocal arranging on the tag, I'm well aware), but I don't think it's ever been established that Brian at the time was particularly vocally enthusiastic, happy, and about the tune being on the album, has it? He went along and did it, and maybe it was for the best ultimately. One thing I do not know, is where in the timeline of putting together the album, recording the song SU, talking Brian into the band using/finishing SU, etc, the decision was made where Denny took his songs off the record.

Bottom line is that I would tend to think that maybe it was more about being supportive of his brother's original wishes, and less about trying to actively push Brian out of the spotlight. I would think that Brian and Denny perhaps like mindedly questioned the appropriateness of the SU song in that context.

Denny had a pretty huge habit of supporting Brian's wishes. In fact, I can't conceive of an instance in the band's history where Denny was actively trying to hog the spotlight in terms of trying to "greedily" use his own studio songs to squeeze out his brothers' studio songs, so I think your assumption, whether sarcastic, half-joking in intention or not, falls pretty flat.

If one wants to talk about somebody trying to actively warp/sink an artist's intention for a song on the SU record, I think one should observe the case of the almost-was (but thankfully not) "positive" spin that was urged, recorded, then for the love of all that is good in this world - dropped - for the Til I Die lyrics, arguably considered amongst the very finest of Brian's works in its final un-f*cked-with (and "heaven forbid", melancholy) form.

[Mike's Beard]

Would have changing the word 'lost' to 'found' my way really have made much difference either way?

[CenturyDeprived]

Would have changing the word 'lost' to 'found' my way really have made much difference either way?

It's all in the eye of the beholder, but I'm gonna go ahead and say a rousing hell yes; I find that knowing what Brian was going through at that time, to hear "I've lost my way" makes a huge difference, and makes a huge statement in my mind. It's crushing to hear those words from that specific artist, along with "it killed my soul".

I always felt deeply impacted by those specific final-version lyrics, long before I ever knew of the existence of the alternate version.

How about if we changed God Only Knows' opening lyrics to "I surely always love you"... would that have made much of a difference? Um... yeah, it would!