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Author Topic: Why Didn't Dennis Have More Lead Vocals?  (Read 10083 times)
Larry Franz
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« on: May 18, 2015, 09:27:06 AM »

Quoting myself on Brian's board:

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It's easy to speculate, but does anyone know why Dennis didn't sing more leads? He did such a great job on "This Car of Mine" and "Do You Wanna Dance".

Or maybe you'd like to speculate.
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MaryUSA
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 09:32:17 AM »

Hi all,


God Only Knows.  Also, the livng Beach Boys know why.  Maybe it is an ancient Beach Boys secret. 
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2015, 09:50:50 AM »

He was the drummer in a band where every member sang and at least three of them were better at doing it than him. How many leads was he supposed to have?
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Larry Franz
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2015, 10:00:44 AM »

He was the drummer in a band where every member sang and at least three of them were better at doing it than him. How many leads was he supposed to have?

More than, what, 3? But he got more than anyone but Mike and Brian in those early years. So you could say he was 3rd on the lead vocal depth chart. I'd also say he could have outdone Mike on a few songs.
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2015, 10:02:10 AM »

When you have the unfortunate luck of being in a band that contains the heavenly voices of Brian and Carl Wilson; as well as Mike's iconic voice and Al supreme vocals, you aren't going to get much of a look in.
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2015, 10:08:59 AM »

When you have the unfortunate luck of being in a band that contains the heavenly voices of Brian and Carl Wilson; as well as Mike's iconic voice and Al supreme vocals, you aren't going to get much of a look in.

remember though that
A) in the early years Carl wasn't too keen on doing lead vocals, and his voice took time to develop
B) Al was the non-family member in a family business, plus he wasn't a member for the first few albums anyway, and after that probably took some time to be recognised by fans. it would be like Blondie immediately getting lead vocal spots. (OH WAIT)
C) Dennis was the fans' favourite.
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Larry Franz
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2015, 10:09:46 AM »

As pointed out, Carl wasn't singing leads in those early years. So one might ask why Dennis got any leads at all. And if his few leads were quite good, as I think they were, why didn't he get more? Maybe Brian knows.  
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 10:10:38 AM by Larry Franz » Logged

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SamMcK
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 10:12:47 AM »

That's true but in the earlier years Brian and Mike pretty much had the monopoly on lead vocal performances. Maybe Brian thought his brothers voices were too underdeveloped at their younger ages for him to get the sound he wanted?

Edit: Oops, I was responding to unreleased backgrounds
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 10:15:06 AM by SamMcK » Logged
ash
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 10:14:51 AM »

Well he could have had at least one more but couldn't be bothered because checking out his new surfboard was more important (?) - feel free to kick my ass if i've got that story wrong.
I'd have thought very carefully about giving him a lead after In The Back Of My Mind - one of Brian's best backing tracks but a total duffer on Today thanks to the terrible vocal.
On the flipside i'd love to have heard his take on Cabin Essence which i'm sure i read he was meant to sing (unless that referred only to the Truck Driving Man section).
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drbeachboy
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2015, 11:11:50 AM »

Well he could have had at least one more but couldn't be bothered because checking out his new surfboard was more important (?) - feel free to kick my ass if i've got that story wrong.
I'd have thought very carefully about giving him a lead after In The Back Of My Mind - one of Brian's best backing tracks but a total duffer on Today thanks to the terrible vocal.
On the flipside i'd love to have heard his take on Cabin Essence which i'm sure i read he was meant to sing (unless that referred only to the Truck Driving Man section).

I think Dennis sang ITBOMM exactly as Brian wanted it. It is a teen angst type song and sung by Dennis with that in mind. Those lyrics needed an edgy vocal and Dennis was just the guy to supply it. The double vocal is really what got messed up. I'm sure Dennis found it difficult to duplicate during the second pass.
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2015, 02:02:51 PM »

If Brian didn't think it was up to scratch he wold have probably had someone else do it (ITBOMM).

Another thing to consider is that it may have been more difficult for Dennis to sing and play drums live on some of the songs so Brian probably felt it was more natural for a guitar player/Mike to replicate the studio vocals live.  There weren't many singing drummers at that time (and still aren't relatively speaking).

And maybe after Dennis went surfing rather than sing his lead on Summmer Days! Brian felt he had blew his chance and didn't ask him again!
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2015, 02:05:53 PM »

If Brian didn't think it was up to scratch he wold have probably had someone else do it (ITBOMM).

Another thing to consider is that it may have been more difficult for Dennis to sing and play drums live on some of the songs so Brian probably felt it was more natural for a guitar player/Mike to replicate the studio vocals live.  There weren't many singing drummers at that time (and still aren't relatively speaking).

And maybe after Dennis went surfing rather than sing his lead on Summmer Days! Brian felt he had blew his chance and didn't ask him again!

It actually makes a lot of sense for Brian to have thought of Denny for lead on You're So Good to Me... it's such a simple beat (maybe the most simple beat in the entire BB catalog?) and would be the ideal song for a drummer to easily and naturally be able to sing/play simultaneously in concert.
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lostbeachboy
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2015, 02:40:09 PM »



I kind of like the fact he didn't sing more. It makes the songs he did sing more awesome.
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Lee Marshall
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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 03:41:38 PM »

I never really 'got' 'In the Back of My Mind' until I heard Brian's 'take' on it with 'No Pier Pressure'.  The 'Today' version is weak and unworthy.  Denny on the other hand wasn't.  He should have had MORE leads...at Mikes expense.  Sorry folks but the weakest voice in the group from 1964 until this very day was and is Mike's.  [although Brian was in dire straits for a LONG period of time...but wasn't really in the group then...now was he?]
Never Learn Not To Love and Little Bird just both blew me away.  I was thinking underutilized or WHAT...and then they did utilize him...and then they turfed his 2 GREAT contributions to Surf's Up...ruining the album [to a degree...at least by comparison to what it could have been] and also the relationship and ultimately Denny.

Assholes...really.  They SHOULD have f***ed with the formula.
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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2015, 04:21:23 PM »

I never really 'got' 'In the Back of My Mind' until I heard Brian's 'take' on it with 'No Pier Pressure'.  The 'Today' version is weak and unworthy.  Denny on the other hand wasn't.  He should have had MORE leads...at Mikes expense.  Sorry folks but the weakest voice in the group from 1964 until this very day was and is Mike's.  [although Brian was in dire straits for a LONG period of time...but wasn't really in the group then...now was he?]
Never Learn Not To Love and Little Bird just both blew me away.  I was thinking underutilized or WHAT...and then they did utilize him...and then they turfed his 2 GREAT contributions to Surf's Up...ruining the album [to a degree...at least by comparison to what it could have been] and also the relationship and ultimately Denny.

Assholes...really.  They SHOULD have f***ed with the formula.

I tend to agree. If Mike had done more leads in his singing style on Meant For You, I think he'd be a bit more highly regarded, and be considered as a more well-rounded, diverse type of singer. It would be quite interesting to know if that MFY voice was a style that he was encouraged to try out by Brian, if Mike just wasn't given many opportunities to sing in that fashion, or if he personally didn't really feel like going in that direction more often because of an affinity for the old sound.  The more Mike amped up with the nasal "young Mike" sound on studio recordings into the late 70s/80s, the more it became weak sauce IMO, and sounded like he was trying too hard. Cool Head, Warm Heart is another Mike vocal that works quite well, since he just chills it out a bit.
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lostbeachboy
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2015, 04:41:00 PM »

He Could have sung lead on the ones he wrote/co-wrote...

4th of July
All I Want To Do
It's About Time
Only With You
San Miguel
Steamboat
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drbeachboy
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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2015, 04:56:45 PM »

I never really 'got' 'In the Back of My Mind' until I heard Brian's 'take' on it with 'No Pier Pressure'.  The 'Today' version is weak and unworthy.  Denny on the other hand wasn't.  He should have had MORE leads...at Mikes expense.  Sorry folks but the weakest voice in the group from 1964 until this very day was and is Mike's.  [although Brian was in dire straits for a LONG period of time...but wasn't really in the group then...now was he?]
Never Learn Not To Love and Little Bird just both blew me away.  I was thinking underutilized or WHAT...and then they did utilize him...and then they turfed his '2 GREAT contributions to Surf's Up...ruining the album [to a degree...at least by comparison to what it could have been] and also the relationship and ultimately Denny.

Assholes...really.  They SHOULD have f***ed with the formula.
Dennis turfed his own 2 songs off of Surf's Up, not they.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
Lee Marshall
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« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2015, 06:31:22 PM »

I never really 'got' 'In the Back of My Mind' until I heard Brian's 'take' on it with 'No Pier Pressure'.  The 'Today' version is weak and unworthy.  Denny on the other hand wasn't.  He should have had MORE leads...at Mikes expense.  Sorry folks but the weakest voice in the group from 1964 until this very day was and is Mike's.  [although Brian was in dire straits for a LONG period of time...but wasn't really in the group then...now was he?]
Never Learn Not To Love and Little Bird just both blew me away.  I was thinking underutilized or WHAT...and then they did utilize him...and then they turfed his '2 GREAT contributions to Surf's Up...ruining the album [to a degree...at least by comparison to what it could have been] and also the relationship and ultimately Denny.

Assholes...really.  They SHOULD have f***ed with the formula.
Dennis turfed his own 2 songs off of Surf's Up, not they.

Yes...and no.
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Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2015, 07:36:39 PM »

I never really 'got' 'In the Back of My Mind' until I heard Brian's 'take' on it with 'No Pier Pressure'.  The 'Today' version is weak and unworthy.  Denny on the other hand wasn't.  He should have had MORE leads...at Mikes expense.  Sorry folks but the weakest voice in the group from 1964 until this very day was and is Mike's.  [although Brian was in dire straits for a LONG period of time...but wasn't really in the group then...now was he?]
Never Learn Not To Love and Little Bird just both blew me away.  I was thinking underutilized or WHAT...and then they did utilize him...and then they turfed his 2 GREAT contributions to Surf's Up...ruining the album [to a degree...at least by comparison to what it could have been] and also the relationship and ultimately Denny.

Assholes...really.  They SHOULD have f***ed with the formula.

I tend to agree. If Mike had done more leads in his singing style on Meant For You, I think he'd be a bit more highly regarded, and be considered as a more well-rounded, diverse type of singer. It would be quite interesting to know if that MFY voice was a style that he was encouraged to try out by Brian, if Mike just wasn't given many opportunities to sing in that fashion, or if he personally didn't really feel like going in that direction more often because of an affinity for the old sound.  The more Mike amped up with the nasal "young Mike" sound on studio recordings into the late 70s/80s, the more it became weak sauce IMO, and sounded like he was trying too hard. Cool Head, Warm Heart is another Mike vocal that works quite well, since he just chills it out a bit.

Yes...I agree that Mike had more to deliver than what we got..  But those nasal attempts at some of the rock 'n' roll stuff would have worked WAY better with Denny BEFORE the punch to the throat.  Mike got some leads by default...or by the fault of someone giving in...to Mike.  [or the voting triumvirate]

Dennis should have been given his due on Surf's Up.  THEN he wouldn't have pulled important product from the package.  It was, in MY opinion...the beginning of the end.  Yes there was other shyte...but when your own turn on you...well...that's another ballgame.  [that no one wants to play]
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"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2015, 11:17:53 PM »

How is Dennis' voice the weakest in the group when it was his voice that made the harmonies sound so strong?  Even when it was just he, Carl and Al on "Wishing You Were Here" it sounded like all of the BB were on there.  He got the short end of the stick for the Surfs Up album; they could've at least put one of his songs on there but instead we get "Take a Load off Your Feet" and that crappy version of "Riot Cell Block #9". Sometimes, Mike's nasally voice actually makes me cringe, I'd rather listen to Dennis' "post kick in the throat" songs than Mike's over the top nasally vocals.
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« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2015, 11:41:18 PM »

Dennis improved as time went by but his vocals on the early albums are rather rough.
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« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 12:06:00 AM »

Maybe Dennis didn't want to do very many lead vocals. He was originally supposed to sing lead on Sail On Sailor, but he walked out of the sessions after a couple of takes so he could go surfing. Maybe he just wasn't very interested in singing leads.
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« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2015, 05:58:44 AM »

Why didn't Dennis have more lead vocals? That would be a good question for the writer, producer, and arranger on most of the songs - Brian Wilson. Maybe we could ask Brian that question the next time he stops by. I'm sure he'll give an enlightening answer.
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« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2015, 06:40:04 AM »

I never really 'got' 'In the Back of My Mind' until I heard Brian's 'take' on it with 'No Pier Pressure'.  The 'Today' version is weak and unworthy.  Denny on the other hand wasn't.  He should have had MORE leads...at Mikes expense.  Sorry folks but the weakest voice in the group from 1964 until this very day was and is Mike's.  [although Brian was in dire straits for a LONG period of time...but wasn't really in the group then...now was he?]
Never Learn Not To Love and Little Bird just both blew me away.  I was thinking underutilized or WHAT...and then they did utilize him...and then they turfed his 2 GREAT contributions to Surf's Up...ruining the album [to a degree...at least by comparison to what it could have been] and also the relationship and ultimately Denny.

Assholes...really.  They SHOULD have f***ed with the formula.

I don't think anyone can do better on Mike's leads than Mike himself. On most of the songs he sang lead on, least.

My impression is that Dennis entered the group through the back door, and he paid for it most of his life, in every department, including the leads.
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« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2015, 08:06:34 AM »

How is Dennis' voice the weakest in the group when it was his voice that made the harmonies sound so strong?  Even when it was just he, Carl and Al on "Wishing You Were Here" it sounded like all of the BB were on there.  He got the short end of the stick for the Surfs Up album; they could've at least put one of his songs on there but instead we get "Take a Load off Your Feet" and that crappy version of "Riot Cell Block #9". Sometimes, Mike's nasally voice actually makes me cringe, I'd rather listen to Dennis' "post kick in the throat" songs than Mike's over the top nasally vocals.
You do realize that for Dennis to have included his songs on the album then WIBNTLA would have had to end the album. That was the crux of the issue. When he lost on that decision, he pulled his songs. I believe his songs would have been included had he worked with Carl and accepted that Surf's Up would be the album closer.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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