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Author Topic: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev‬ sentenced to death for Boston Marathon bombing  (Read 9037 times)
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Douchepool
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« on: May 15, 2015, 01:21:10 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/15/us/boston-bombing-tsarnaev-sentence/index.html?sr=fb051515tsarnaevsentence3pVODtopPhoto

Well, it was going to happen either way, right? I wonder how long it'll be before people start making excuses.
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2015, 01:35:17 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/15/us/boston-bombing-tsarnaev-sentence/index.html?sr=fb051515tsarnaevsentence3pVODtopPhoto

Well, it was going to happen either way, right? I wonder how long it'll be before people start making excuses.

Huh?

What do you mean either way - death vs. life in prison?

What excuses - for death penalty, against death penalty, by his family/supporters, by death penalty proponents, by death penalty opponents?

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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2015, 01:51:53 PM »

Mostly death vs. life in prison. It's technically cheaper to keep them locked in prison for life than to execute them...but then again, never discount the democratic thirst for blood.
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the captain
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2015, 02:38:22 PM »

I'm a little bit surprised, given the state's disapproval of the death penalty in general and specifically in this case, according to polls. (The Boston Globe reported here -- http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/26/globe-poll-shows-diminishing-support-for-death-penalty-for-tsarnaev/S3GMhFlGj5VUkZrmLzh1iN/story.html -- that only a third support the death penalty in general and only a fifth supported it in this case.)

But as TRBB said, "never discount the democratic thirst for blood." (Nothing to be proud of in my opinion.)
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2015, 04:39:52 PM »

I'm a little bit surprised, given the state's disapproval of the death penalty in general and specifically in this case, according to polls. (The Boston Globe reported here -- http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/26/globe-poll-shows-diminishing-support-for-death-penalty-for-tsarnaev/S3GMhFlGj5VUkZrmLzh1iN/story.html -- that only a third support the death penalty in general and only a fifth supported it in this case.)

But as TRBB said, "never discount the democratic thirst for blood." (Nothing to be proud of in my opinion.)
That's the "narrative" of the Globe.  It was a federal and not a state trial, so federal guidelines are followed for sentencing.  The jurors were "death penalty qualified" prior to trial, meaning that if they found him guilty, they would sentence life without parole, or the death penalty and it had to be unanimous.  I do not trust the veracity of a Boston Globe poll.  The sentencing had no bearing on Massachusetts state criminal and punishment opinions. It was held in a federal courthouse, in Massachusetts, but addressed federal charges related to terrorism, and the like.  They have jurisdiction over federal crimes. Twelve persons were unanimous in 14 hours.

He showed no remorse, and that sealed his fate. When I saw them drag "the nun" in (sort of a discussion in another thread) I had the sense that the defense team were desperate, and she was their last hope.

My take is that the defense knew the jurors were impacted by the proximity of leaving the home made bombs behind children, calculated to kill or maim many people.  And they hoped that Sr. Prejean, who attempted to serve as sort of a proxy for Tsarnaev, could say that he (Tsarnaev) told her he was sorry. If he wanted to apologize or show remorse, he could have and didn't. He could have testified that he was sorry.  None of his behavior showed remorse.

And, the most liberal lawyers who oppose the death penalty, were supporting it because the crimes were of such atrocity, premeditated, and killed four and maimed hundreds. 

The other paper is the Boston Herald, which more closely represents what people think.  And there are many local stations to hear what the actual victims had to say.  At least this part is over.
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2015, 05:39:59 PM »

I'm well aware of the distinctions between federal and state cases. My point was that in a state generally opposed to the death penalty, it surprised me that the jurors would be unanimously in favor of the death penalty. The Globe article was pasted because, frankly, it was one of the first recent ones I found. But let's be serious: it isn't as if the converse numbers are true. Massachusetts isn't Texas. I'm guessing that any news source you consider liberal won't satisfy you, but this NYT story quotes the Boston NPR affiliate as saying in its poll that 27% were pro-death penalty in this particular case.

Point being: it's a state where most people, at least in theory, don't support the death penalty.

Which liberal lawyers who oppose the death penalty were in favor in this instance? Frankly I think that's pathetic: it's intellectually dishonest for people to change their positions just because it's in their city, it's terrorism versus "regular crime," or whether the defendant looked acceptably sorry during his trial. Anyone who opposes it in theory but somehow apparently never considered the fact that some criminal might have "killed four and maimed hundreds" is an idiot.

Anyway, I don't mean to get into a political of philosophical discussion here because to be totally honest, I've seen too many of those in the Sandbox and I know where they lead (which is nowhere: everyone rallies her own troops or beats his own chest and usually belittles, generalizes about, and totally builds a straw man of the opponent). I really was just posting to make that one point, that it was a slight surprise for a case where the jurors' decision seemed to be disproportionate from that population's views.
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2015, 06:27:26 PM »

I'm well aware of the distinctions between federal and state cases. My point was that in a state generally opposed to the death penalty, it surprised me that the jurors would be unanimously in favor of the death penalty. The Globe article was pasted because, frankly, it was one of the first recent ones I found. But let's be serious: it isn't as if the converse numbers are true. Massachusetts isn't Texas. I'm guessing that any news source you consider liberal won't satisfy you, but this NYT story quotes the Boston NPR affiliate as saying in its poll that 27% were pro-death penalty in this particular case.

Point being: it's a state where most people, at least in theory, don't support the death penalty.

Which liberal lawyers who oppose the death penalty were in favor in this instance? Frankly I think that's pathetic: it's intellectually dishonest for people to change their positions just because it's in their city, it's terrorism versus "regular crime," or whether the defendant looked acceptably sorry during his trial. Anyone who opposes it in theory but somehow apparently never considered the fact that some criminal might have "killed four and maimed hundreds" is an idiot.

Anyway, I don't mean to get into a political of philosophical discussion here because to be totally honest, I've seen too many of those in the Sandbox and I know where they lead (which is nowhere: everyone rallies her own troops or beats his own chest and usually belittles, generalizes about, and totally builds a straw man of the opponent). I really was just posting to make that one point, that it was a slight surprise for a case where the jurors' decision seemed to be disproportionate from that population's views.
Captain - IIRC they went through over a thousand potential jurors to find the ones selected.  They were capital crimes, with death resulting, and destruction of property, which didn't result in death, which did not factor in.  I'm somewhere in the moderate zone. There is contained in the Globe or boston.com, the 24 page jury verdict for the penalty phase that I've been poring over, which might be helpful.  They had to find first that he was 18 years old, beyond a reasonable doubt.

It was a jury decision. But, even if the venue was changed to another state, it might not have mattered, with the testimony that was put forth. 
As far as the newpapers, I got a little shock in NY a couple of weeks ago.  A full front page of Tsarnaev flipping the bird was on the NY Post.  Nothing like that ever ran in Boston with a full front page.  People exercised restraint.  I would have preferred cameras in the court so everyone could see instead of relying on twitter feeds.  There were reports of jurors weeping with the graphic testimony and photographs shown.  The bomb blew right though the torso of an 8 year old, who stood feet from Tsarnaev. He chose the spot and was "lying in wait."  Then bought a bottle of milk for himself 20 minutes later, while people on Boylston St., were looking at their limbs ten feet away. 

NYT is the alter ego of the Globe.  It once owned the Globe which is now owned by the Red Sox owner.  I know of no one who was polled.  And it isn't liberal lawyers generally supporting the death penalty.  It was the particular atrocity, premeditation, of putting a "weapon of mass destruction in a place of public use."

It was kidnapping/carjacking, assassination of a police officer.  It was the shocking lack of remorse.  And the bird flipped at the camera.  And, the target of "The Boston Marathon, an iconic event that draws large crowds of men, women and children in its final stretch, making it especially susceptible to the act and effects of terrorism." (Page 13 - count 3) And, he ran over his own brother, his co-conspirator.  The jury didn't buy the "Svengali" defense. 

The jury found that the death penalty fit the atrocity of the crime.  Massachusetts is changing, with a Republican governor.  And I can't imagine how, in this climate that this poll could be valid.  The trial outcome would likely have been the same in any state in the union.  We'll maybe hear from some of the jurors, now that this trial is over.  The US Atty. is an Obama appointee; hardly a conservative.  And they got this conviction and sentence.

The jury form lays out most of the story. 

And, thanks for the link.  I read some of the accounts on several media sources.
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2015, 06:43:23 PM »

Thanks for describing the crime. I am aware of its severity. It got some press.
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2015, 06:50:53 PM »

I can never agree with the death penalty under any circumstances whatsoever. That's all I have to say about this.
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2015, 03:38:47 AM »

Couldn't happen to a nicer person - good riddance.
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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2015, 08:30:08 AM »

Thanks for describing the crime. I am aware of its severity. It got some press.
Every person who was picked to serve on the jury had to qualify themselves that they could vote for the death penalty. If they were totally against it, then they weren't picked to serve. Everyone chosen told the judge during jury selection that it would be a an agreeable option to vote for it during the penalty phase of the trial.
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« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2015, 08:34:43 AM »

I can never agree with the death penalty under any circumstances whatsoever. That's all I have to say about this.
I wish the killers themselves thought about it as you do. Killers deal out the death penalty to their victims without a trial. How fair is that?
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« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2015, 09:10:12 AM »

I can never agree with the death penalty under any circumstances whatsoever. That's all I have to say about this.
I wish the killers themselves thought about it as you do.

This, I agree with.
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2015, 04:04:34 PM »

I can never agree with the death penalty under any circumstances whatsoever. That's all I have to say about this.
I wish the killers themselves thought about it as you do. Killers deal out the death penalty to their victims without a trial. How fair is that?

It's not fair at all. But I don't think some governments should stoop down to that level.
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2015, 04:23:16 PM »

It's not fair at all. But I don't think some governments should stoop down to that level.

Hey, at least some people get a trial. I'm sure gays in Palestine would love a trial before they're thrown from rooftops. Just sayin'.
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2015, 04:40:45 PM »

I think it's obvious to everyone that everyone can agree that victims of violence everywhere would prefer fair trials over vigilante or ideological or insanity-inspired killing, but that's irrelevant. All the unjustified killings in the world don't change the belief that state-approved killings are also wrong, fair trial or not.
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« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2015, 10:32:30 AM »

Mostly death vs. life in prison. It's technically cheaper to keep them locked in prison for life than to execute

How so?
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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2015, 11:50:17 PM »

Mostly death vs. life in prison. It's technically cheaper to keep them locked in prison for life than to execute

How so?

Appeal after appeal after appeal.
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« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2015, 07:31:04 AM »

All the unjustified killings in the world don't change the belief that state-approved killings are also wrong, fair trial or not.

Fair trial!!?! Since when!?!  LOL LOL LOL  Besides... who needs a fair trial anyway?!  "Fair trial"... that's a good one!!

Does your morality/reasoning also apply to a baby in the womb?  The State approves killing these babies -- for any reason (Mom's tired, Dad's a d-ck, too poor, too uneducated, too black -- too drunk).  Trial, schmial.  Kill it!

Too many poor in the ghetto??? -- F-CK IT!!! -- build a "Planned Parenthood" clinic!!  That's about as evil as it gets -- no matter which planet you're from.  People are so chickensh-t about having a firm morality/reasoning on this -- for reasons I will never understand.  This is the easy stuff in my book.

So any concern of Dzhohskxara's sentence, trial or whatever -- is hilarious to me.  Drop a safe on him -- who the f-ck cares!!!!???!!!  Unless you're a super-Christian (you're not, are you?) concern here is either a lie or some new form of ill-humanity that I've yet to categorize.

Also... state-approved killings are not "wrong" (see: War).  Let's not get all thinky.  Killing bad-guys is a necessary and unfortunate aspect of keeping society safe.  And enemy combatants who kill are signing up for it.  And they know that.  Any different a response gives them pause.  And the ones of the "one-off radical" variety -- like the turkey we have here -- should be sent through on a conveyor belt.  On slow.

Me personally? -- I'm opposed to the death penalty.  But... then again... azzhat-terrorists and serial killers like this sh-tface make me think differently.  Cuz I'm NORMAL.

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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2015, 08:15:51 AM »

I think the punishment should fit the crime. 

Instead of putting these scumbags to sleep peacefully, they should send them off the earth in whatever brutal way they killed their victims. 

Take this guy and strap him to an exploding pressure cooker. 

The way I see it, if you take a life in cold blood, you sacrifice your right to live. 
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bluesno1fann
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« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2015, 08:54:02 AM »

I think the punishment should fit the crime. 

Instead of putting these scumbags to sleep peacefully, they should send them off the earth in whatever brutal way they killed their victims. 

Take this guy and strap him to an exploding pressure cooker. 

The way I see it, if you take a life in cold blood, you sacrifice your right to live. 

See, I can never, ever agree with that. An eye for an eye makes everyone blind.
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« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2015, 09:20:12 AM »

I respect your opinion, but I think one of the reasons we have so many problems with crime in the country is that punishment is not swift and severe. 
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« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2015, 10:26:37 AM »

See, I can never, ever agree with that. An eye for an eye makes everyone blind.
Really?  What about a nose-for-a-nose -- that way nobody stinks?
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« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2015, 10:41:16 AM »

The reason we have problems with crime is because people are not taught to be respectful of others. Oh, and the anti-gun propaganda just makes it easier for criminals to commit crimes.
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« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2015, 10:48:56 AM »

The reason we have problems with crime is because people are not taught to be respectful of others. Oh, and the anti-gun propaganda just makes it easier for criminals to commit crimes.

I agree with both of these points 100%.  Any anti-gun laws are just going to keep law abiding citizens from being able to protect their lives and property.
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