What is the most devastating moment in the band's career?

[Douchepool]

Mike being allowed to use the name is such a farce. The Beach Boys will never achieve their rightful place in history in the minds of the masses until his jukebox touring band is put to rest.  

I think their rightful place in history was assured in the mid-1970s - that of America's first and greatest rock band.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Obviously the death of a band member is the most devastating. I mean, how CAN something be worse or devastating than death? Don't answer that!

However, I'll go with what was mentioned several times above. I think the MOMENT Brian Wilson decided/committed to recording Smiley Smile, the peak or zenith of the group was now set (whatever that day/date was), and it would be downhill after that, regardless of the merits of Smiley Smile, which are debatable.

Sometimes I think of the Beach Boys' career in terms of a graph. I believe the line of the graph was going up, up, up - reached its zenith with SMiLE - and then turned the other way and went down, down, down - with a few upward spikes along the way.

[Nicko1234]

I'm also pretty certain that if the situation changed, and if the BRI setup were not what it currently is, and if Brian, Al, and Carl's estate resisted... and Mike still went through all legal wranglings to get use of the band name - and was successful, against everyone elses' wishes... that the same ardent defenders would still be defending his use of the band name. Is that an off-base assumption?

Brian made it clear in an interview recently that this is not going to happen.

Mike being allowed to use the name is such a farce. The Beach Boys will never achieve their rightful place in history in the minds of the masses until his jukebox touring band is put to rest. 

You may be disappointed. Didn`t Howie Edelson say that he believes it is an absolute certainty that the touring under The Beach Boys name will continue even when there are no original members left onstage? It that happens, then people will be looking back on any of the last 50+ years with nostalgic memories.

[CenturyDeprived]

I'm also pretty certain that if the situation changed, and if the BRI setup were not what it currently is, and if Brian, Al, and Carl's estate resisted... and Mike still went through all legal wranglings to get use of the band name - and was successful, against everyone elses' wishes... that the same ardent defenders would still be defending his use of the band name. Is that an off-base assumption?

Brian made it clear in an interview recently that this is not going to happen.
 

Not my point. My point is that IF it did happen (not whether it's likely to actually happen), there would still be the exact same people defending away. Do you dispute that?

[Douchepool]

Sounds like a loaded question; I wouldn't defend it. I neither support nor ridicule Michael's usage of the name in concert since that's what BRI voted on.

[Nicko1234]

Not my point. My point is that IF it did happen (not whether it's likely to actually happen), there would still be the exact same people defending away. Do you dispute that?

Sure. If Brian, Al and Carl`s estate all issued public statements saying that they were trying to take the licence away from Mike then I think that would change public perception among fans massively.

But as Brian has said the exact opposite, there`s nothing more that needs to be said.

[Douchepool]

The voting entities of BRI could easily put it up for a vote if they wanted to...well, how's that been going of late? In fact, since 1998 no less?

[Mike's Beard]

If people are so dead set against Mike using the Beach Boys name, petition Brian Wilson and the estate of Carl Wilson to revoke his license to do so; see how far that gets you.

[Douchepool]

The fans know how to govern the band's affairs better than the band, dontchasee.

[CenturyDeprived]

The fans know how to govern the band's affairs better than the band, dontchasee.

Don't knock fan sentiment; if not for the (especially hardcore) fans lobbying for it, I highly, highly doubt TSS would have ever been released in the immensely rad way that it finally was.

[Mike's Beard]

The fans know how to govern the band's affairs better than the band, dontchasee.

Don't knock fan sentiment; if not for the (especially hardcore) fans lobbying for it, I highly, highly doubt TSS would have ever been released in the immensely rad way that it finally was.

I think once BWPS was released and did so well it was only a matter of time.

[yrrum wosliw wibn 68]

Failure to put TV mini series into production.

Originally slated for production in fall of 1977 is was an "Americanized" mini series remake based on The Godfather 1&2 and centered on no other than....  The Beach Boys.

Cast Line up:

Godfather:            Murry Wilson
Michael:                Carl Wilson
Sonny:                  Dennis Wilson
Fredo:                   Brian Wilson
Tom Hagen:           Van Dyke Parks
Mo Greene:            Mike Love
Pentageli:              Al Jardine
Clemenza:             Jack Riely
Carlo:                   Bruce Johnston
Tessio:                  David Marks
Luca Brasi:            Charles Manson
Barzini:                 Eugene Landy
Johnny Fontane:    John Stamos
Connie:                 Carnie Wilson
Kay Adams:           Marylin Wilson
Appolonia:             Wendy Wilson
Jack Woltz:            Phil Spector
Hyman Roth:         Capitol Records
Johnny Ola:           Stan Love
All 5 Families:        The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Four Seasons, Jan & Dean

Surprised this didn't get green lighted...

[Douchepool]

If the money is good I'm pretty sure the band will go with it. Releasing a Smile package was a commercially sound move. The 50th anniversary tour was a commercially sound move. Potentially spending a lot of time in court to wrestle the name back from the alleged usurper...probably not so much.

[CenturyDeprived]

Failure to put TV mini series into production.

Originally slated for production in fall of 1977 is was an "Americanized" mini series remake based on The Godfather 1&2 and centered on no other than....  The Beach Boys.

Cast Line up:

Godfather:            Murry Wilson
Michael:                Carl Wilson
Sonny:                  Dennis Wilson
Fredo:                   Brian Wilson
Tom Hagen:           Van Dyke Parks
Mo Greene:            Mike Love
Pentageli:              Al Jardine
Clemenza:             Jack Riely
Carlo:                   Bruce Johnston
Tessio:                  David Marks
Luca Brasi:            Charles Manson
Barzini:                 Eugene Landy
Johnny Fontane:    John Stamos
Connie:                 Carnie Wilson
Kay Adams:           Marylin Wilson
Appolonia:             Wendy Wilson
Jack Woltz:            Phil Spector
Hyman Roth:         Capitol Records
Johnny Ola:           Stan Love
All 5 Families:        The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Four Seasons, Jan & Dean

Surprised this didn't get green lighted...

 

[CenturyDeprived]

The fans know how to govern the band's affairs better than the band, dontchasee.

Don't knock fan sentiment; if not for the (especially hardcore) fans lobbying for it, I highly, highly doubt TSS would have ever been released in the immensely rad way that it finally was.

I think once BWPS was released and did so well it was only a matter of time.

You think without fans pushing for it the way they were, that we'd have seen the giant deluxe 5-disc set, with all the extensive trimmings?

[Mike's Beard]

I only bought the standard set, to be honest I'd forgot there was a deluxe package.

[donald]

Single moment?   The loss of Carl Wilson.   Losing the soul has to be the most devastating thing for the band.   

[Lee Marshall]

To take 'ownership' of the Beach Boys away from Mike would be 100% the WRONG thing to do.  It would be disloyal to Mike, Bruce and the rest of the group.  It would be equally wrong and insulting to the more casual yet loyal fans.  And it would cost the 'shareholders' MONEY as Mike works the brand to the available MAX.

Brian and Al wouldn't vote against it.  And why would Catl's estate?  Does Al even have a BRI vote?

The Beach Boys are heading for 55 years.  BRIAN WILSON has been [way more often than not] an entity unto himself...a BRAND...for more than a 1/4 of a century.  For almost 1/2 as long as the Beach Boys have existed so too has a solo artist named Brian Wilson.  And for these past many years...almost 2 decades he's toured and supported his unique BRAND and actual NEW releases.

We get the best of both worlds and the Beach Boys maximize what it is they can do collectively on two distinct fronts.  For the most part it's how they decided to do it and they've pretty much stuck to it.  In doing so they have managed to double our pleasure in many an instance.

I think that many could agree that AL has a ton of talent and that it has been a mistake to leave him sitting high and dry.  No matter which 'contigent' he is included with...THEY [and WE] win.

It ain't perfect.  But...I'm going to see AND HEAR 2 distinctly great concerts this summer with real live Beach Boys...5 of 'em in total.  6 if David stays with Mike and Bruce after the UK tour.

As long as THE MUSIC DOES THE TALKING...It'll be great.

Meanwhile...the most devastating moment has yet to occur.  Let's ALL hope that it stays so.

[Howie Edelson]

I personally don’t think Smile’s non-release was the worst thing.

I believe following Pepper it never would’ve gotten its due, and if we’re being honest, even if it hadn’t, it STILL wouldn’t have gotten its due. It would’ve progressed a whole lotta OTHER people's music, but it would be confusing to the shifting audience. Smile sinking did more damage to Brian than it did to the BB's public.

The worst things to me when assessing the “slump” (which incidentally created the greatest and most satisfying music next to The Beatles) was that the hits dried up. THAT was Brian’s medium. Brian was at his best when he reached the masses on a major scale with a thorough sweep. Undeniable hits. Unbelievable hooks. Music you fell in love with because it replaces pain with heaven. I love Smile -- but that music doesn’t do that. Pet Sounds does, but Smile is whole other road. Equally important -- but it's not social music. It's heavy. I'm not saying Brian needed to be "fun in the sun" to be commercial, but Smile is music for music people. Subtle difference between that and mailmen and jocks and kids and moms and dorky teens all loving the same song.

The worst thing was The Association hits, "Daydream Believer," and “Happy Together.”

“Never My Love” and “Happy Together” took the 1967 spot where The Beach Boys lived. Sunshine Romantic Pop found new tenants. That was the failure. Another failure that Stebbins and I always talk about was the total abandonment of the guitar as a lead instrument.

I agree that the failure of Sunflower is among them, but that’s no fault of their own. They handed WB their Abbey Road, and that label was too embarrassed to make good on it. I place a lot of fault with WB for a lot of things, actually. I also find fault with WB artists that supposedly adored The Beach Boys and didn’t demand they be treated with the respect -- by both the label and U.S. promoters. Those artists and WB should've paired them on the road with the instant legends suddenly driving the label -- and the "business."

But in MY opinion, regarding the band’s CAREER, the loss of momentum following such masterpieces as "WIBN" and "GV" with the lack of a definitive, undeniable, massive, universal Beach Boys 45 in 1967 is the single most devastating event in the band’s career.

[Douchepool]

To take 'ownership' of the Beach Boys away from Mike would be 100% the WRONG thing to do.  It would be disloyal to Mike, Bruce and the rest of the group.  It would be equally wrong and insulting to the more casual yet loyal fans.  And it would cost the 'shareholders' MONEY as Mike works the brand to the available MAX.

Brian and Al wouldn't vote against it.  And why would Catl's estate?  Does Al even have a BRI vote?

The Beach Boys are heading for 55 years.  BRIAN WILSON has been [way more often than not] an entity unto himself...a BRAND...for more than a 1/4 of a century.  For almost 1/2 as long as the Beach Boys have existed so too has a solo artist named Brian Wilson.  And for these past many years...almost 2 decades he's toured and supported his unique BRAND and actual NEW releases.

We get the best of both worlds and the Beach Boys maximize what it is they can do collectively on two distinct fronts.  For the most part it's how they decided to do it and they've pretty much stuck to it.  In doing so they have managed to double our pleasure in many an instance.

I think that many could agree that AL has a ton of talent and that it has been a mistake to leave him sitting high and dry.  No matter which 'contigent' he is included with...THEY [and WE] win.

It ain't perfect.  But...I'm going to see AND HEAR 2 distinctly great concerts this summer with real live Beach Boys...5 of 'em in total.  6 if David stays with Mike and Bruce after the UK tour.

As long as THE MUSIC DOES THE TALKING...It'll be great.

Meanwhile...the most devastating moment has yet to occur.  Let's ALL hope that it stays so.

 

Well...except the last two sentences. I don't want to think about that.

[Lee Marshall]

Agree about the guitars and WB Howie...but The Association?  The Monkees?  The Turtles?  ... and the idea of the Beach Boys staying with sunshine songs?  Brian knew that THAT was finished.  So too in no time flat would be the Association, Monkees and Turtles.  The whole 'thing' was changing.  Brian KNEW that he and the Boys HAD to adapt and move on in order to survive.  Unfortunately...he got lost in the maze he made for himself and that dead time/down time left them sitting in limbo with no life preserver of ANY kind to hold on to.

They got 'bronzed'...and set...in stone.

What a pisser!!!

[Mikie]

I think "Darlin'" was a damn strong song for 1967! On the heels of "Heroes & Villains", I don't think Brian (and Mike) could have done any better. It was a Pop song with a LOT of Rock thrown in. It still fit the times. It only went to #19 in the U.S., but I think it deserved much better than that. The following year was when their rep went into a nose dive.

[Howie Edelson]

But he DID stay with it -- "This Whole World" -- perhaps his most important and musically successful songs is nothing if not Sunshine Pop.
I believe that song -- above any other -- is what Brian Wilson does.

"I'd Love Just Once To See You," "Here Comes The Night," "Soulful Old Man Sunshine," "Breakaway," "Good Time," his production contributions to "Susie Cincinnati" -- even "Our Sweet Love" -- all sunshine pop.

Sunshine Pop doesn't have to be disposable -- and those Association and Turtles hits were all quality songs and records -- I bet if you heard Miles Davis playing "Never My Love" you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. The Monkees were the biggest sellers of '67 -- all killer s hit. But The Springfield is considered more "important" and more "real." There are now GENERATIONS of people who can't sing a note from Younger Than Yesterday or Forever Changes -- but know every inch of "Happy Together." That's what I'm talking about. Is it better -- not for me to say, but if I was, I'd take Headquarters over Forever Changes each and every day.

Most of the sunshine/romantic pop of that era was built on Brian's work. The genre morphed into bubblegum -- but that had nothing to do with Brian.
Brian would've been the guy to take sunshine pop and bring it to college, but losing '67 stubbed that out.

[clack]

Agree about the guitars and WB Howie...but The Association?  The Monkees?  The Turtles?  ... and the idea of the Beach Boys staying with sunshine songs?  Brian knew that THAT was finished.  So too in no time flat would be the Association, Monkees and Turtles.  The whole 'thing' was changing.  Brian KNEW that he and the Boys HAD to adapt and move on in order to survive.  Unfortunately...he got lost in the maze he made for himself and that dead time/down time left them sitting in limbo with no life preserver of ANY kind to hold on to.

They got 'bronzed'...and set...in stone.

What a pisser!!!

The Monkees, the Turtles, and the Association, post-Pepper, were themselves trying to move beyond sunshine pop. The Beach Boys equivalent of 'Happy Together' or 'Never My Love' would have bought them only a few months of commercial viability, perhaps at the cost of the early 70's revival of their reputation.

[Ron]

To use a word like "Devastating" , the only thing that comes to mind is Dennis' death.  Carl's death was equally tragic but Carl lived a good life, and was older when he passed.  Dennis died way too young, and was in a bad place when he died...