What is the most devastating moment in the band's career?

[bossaroo]

the failure to complete and release SMiLE by the summer of '67. so many factors at play from Van Dyke jumping ship, to Mike and the band's reluctance to embrace and encourage Brian to finish it, and of course Brian's own mental instability and lack of confidence and clear-headedness to get the job done (fueled in large part by his reported amphetamine use, in my opinion).

failing to take part in Monterey was not as big a deal, but it's a huge shame they weren't up to it. 1967 was a pivotal year and The Beach Boys really missed the boat.

I also think Mike's dismissal around that time could have really helped the band's momentum and trajectory. Dennis could have stepped out front where he belonged and perhaps being given that sort of responsibility and recognition would have inspired him to take things a bit more seriously (and be taken more seriously) instead of being relegated to a rather minor supporting role where his contributions weren't really vital to the overall equation. a pipe dream I know, but it's fascinating to think about.

other horribly devastating moments:
-Murry selling the catalog
-Manson being connected to the band in any way, shape, or form
-Brian being committed to an institution where he was allegedly given electroshock therapy and thorazine
-the hiring of Landy
-the deterioration and death of Dennis

and last but certainly not least, Carl's premature death and the wretched situation we find ourselves in today: Mike Love controlling the rights to the band name where he would rather share the stage with Bruce Johnston and John Stamos instead of Brian Wilson and Al Jardine. truly devastating to the legacy and all that is fair and right.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

the failure to complete and release SMiLE by the summer of '67. so many factors at play from Van Dyke jumping ship, to Mike and the band's reluctance to embrace and encourage Brian to finish it, and of course Brian's own mental instability and lack of confidence and clear-headedness to get the job done (fueled in large part by his reported amphetamine use, in my opinion).

failing to take part in Monterey was not as big a deal, but it's a huge shame they weren't up to it. 1967 was a pivotal year and The Beach Boys really missed the boat.

I also think Mike's dismissal around that time could have really helped the band's momentum and trajectory. Dennis could have stepped out front where he belonged and perhaps being given that sort of responsibility and recognition would have inspired him to take things a bit more seriously (and be taken more seriously) instead of being relegated to a rather minor supporting role where his contributions weren't really vital to the overall equation. a pipe dream I know, but it's fascinating to think about.

other horribly devastating moments:
-Murry selling the catalog
-Manson being connected to the band in any way, shape, or form
-Brian being committed to an institution where he was allegedly given electroshock therapy and thorazine
-the hiring of Landy
-the deterioration and death of Dennis

and last but certainly not least, Carl's premature death and the wretched situation we find ourselves in today: Mike Love controlling the rights to the band name where he would rather share the stage with Bruce Johnston and John Stamos instead of Brian Wilson and Al Jardine. truly devastating to the legacy and all that is fair and right.

 

[Lee Marshall]

No Smile.
No Jack.
No Brian.
No Dennis.
No Brian.
No Carl.
No Brian.

No Wilsons...No Beach Boys.

Drugs.
The reasons for gettin' hooked on drugs.
No Smile.
Mr. Negativity.
No Smile

[Mikie]

No Wilsons...No Beach Boys.

And that, my friends, is pretty much it in a nutshell.......

[Douchepool]

No Dennis, no Beach Boys.

[18thofMay]

The lack of understanding and or promotion of Pet Sounds in the US.

[SurferDownUnder]

When Heroes and Villains was lukewarmly received by that LA radio station and while still a hit, not received in the way Brian needed to feel recognised and accomplished, a huge blow to his esteem considering he made a record that has almost no comparison...

[Bill30022]

The failure to release SMiLE in 1967. They never recovered from that.

In second place is the transfer of leadership from Carl to Mike during the 74 to 76 timeframe.

[Lee Marshall]

When Heroes and Villains was lukewarmly received by that LA radio station and while still a hit, not received in the way Brian needed to feel recognised and accomplished, a huge blow to his esteem considering he made a record that has almost no comparison...

Posted on: Today at 12:00:18 AMPosted by: Bill30022 
Insert Quote
The failure to release SMiLE in 1967. They never recovered from that.
 
First Bill I really agree BIG TIME with your "second place" point which I didn't even include in the quote I copied. But you two got me to thinkin'...When Brian proclaimed that 'WE' weren't ready for Smile...and thusly he shelved it...is it maybe because Heroes and Villains didn't go through the popularity roof like Good Vibrations had?  A convenient excuse 'cause he just couldn't put the jigsaw puzzle together but...did he really think that back in '67?

Was he so bummed out by H and V only just hovering near the top 10 that he figured the whole album would not QUITE make it either?  Chart positions are and were important to Brian.  Validation for a job well done.  I know he was wrong...if in fact he thought that...back then.  We WERE ready for Smile.  HUGELY ready.  It would have changed everything...and "second place" never would have happened.

[SurferDownUnder]

When Heroes and Villains was lukewarmly received by that LA radio station and while still a hit, not received in the way Brian needed to feel recognised and accomplished, a huge blow to his esteem considering he made a record that has almost no comparison...

Posted on: Today at 12:00:18 AMPosted by: Bill30022 
Insert Quote
The failure to release SMiLE in 1967. They never recovered from that.
 
First Bill I really agree BIG TIME with your "second place" point which I didn't even include in the quote I copied. But you two got me to thinkin'...When Brian proclaimed that 'WE' weren't ready for Smile...and thusly he shelved it...is it maybe because Heroes and Villains didn't go through the popularity roof like Good Vibrations had?  A convenient excuse 'cause he just couldn't put the jigsaw puzzle together but...did he really think that back in '67?

Was he so bummed out by H and V only just hovering near the top 10 that he figured the whole album would not QUITE make it either?  Chart positions are and were important to Brian.  Validation for a job well done.  I know he was wrong...if in fact he thought that...back then.  We WERE ready for Smile.  HUGELY ready.  It would have changed everything...and "second place" never would have happened.

I think you hit the nail on the head there Add Some, I think Brian was shattered by H&V being shunned after the success of GV.

[Lee Marshall]

But...it wasn't shunned.  It just took him TOO dang long to finish it and release it.  Where I lived...Good Vibrations hit the charts on October 24 and stayed on the charts 'til mid January 1967.  So for 12 weeks...which was a HUGE period of time THEN as opposed to the 45-50 weeks that stuff hangs around in these awful days of so little available that they'll play on the top 30...there it was in ALL of its glory.

And then?  Nothing.  Pet Sounds had been out for 8 months.  What was coming next?  Sloop John B.  Caroline No.  Wouldn't It Be NNice/God Only Knows.  Good Vibrations and... ... ...crickets.

Feb.?  Nothing.  Mar.?  Nada  Apr.?  Uh uh.  May...surely May?  Dick-all.  June then?  Nope.  July?  Summertime...Beach Boys right?  Wrong.

August 7...almost 7 full months after all the good will which helped the Beach Boys nail 'it' as the group of the year in the UK...the music world had passed them by.  The top 10 when Good Vibrations left the charts?
The Monkees
The Royal Guardsmen
Mamas and Papas
Ronnie Dove
Paul Revere
4 Seasons
Jimmy Ruffin
Wilson Picket
Herman's Hermits
The Cyrcle.

When they finally made it back?
The Beatles
The Doors
The Rascals
Neil Diamond
Monkees
Lulu
Jefferson Airplane
Aretha Franklin
Bee Gees
Even Glen Campbell had beaten them to the airwaves...and the top 10.  Procul Harum had proven that the world was ready for something artistically unique.  Traffic was on the charts.  The Animals were singing about San Francisco.  The music world had changed...and the Beach Boys were [seemingly] asleep at the wheel.

Heroes and Villains spent 2 weeks in the top 10 in Toronto peaking at #5.By September 25 it was gone.

Then came Smiley Smile.  WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT.  What a lousy album.  We waited almost a YEAR from the release of Good Vibration til Smiley Smile?  They rush released Wild Honey [Nov.6-top 40] both as an album and a single and quickly after that...Darlin [Dec. 18-top 40].

Too little.  Too late.  The damage had been done.  The boat had sailed.  The world wasn't ready for what didn't happen.

[doc smiley]

That's definitely a major misstep...although given what exists, did we really miss much? The California Feelin' piano/vocal track aside, there isn't much worth writing about there unless there's leagues of unheard greatness from the period.

That plus I've Got a Friend, Good Timin', River Song, Rainbows and Angel Come Home all hail from that period. I've never heard it but some have said Mike's Glow Cresent Glow is none too shabby. Plus if Chaplin had never left there'd be Hard Times and stuff from his solo debut. If Rieley was still managing them, there's plenty of quality stuff off Western Justice that could have been worked up into BB material.

+
"Riverboat Queen"  from Blondie's solo record would be worthy of a BB treatment, and I'd be curious what Brian's "Honeycomb" idea with Roy Wood would have sounded like if it was finished...

[CenturyDeprived]

I'm gonna rank the instance where Denny essentially got told he couldn't tour for his solo album and then return to the Beach Boys, without losing his job within the Beach Boys, as pretty high up there in devastating moments with plenty of wide-ranging (and granted, some speculative) repercussions.  Awful, awful move by his bandmates.

[bossaroo]

I think Brian had already given up on SMiLE when he put all his focus on Heroes & Villains being a successful single. SMiLE was just too big to wrap his head around all by himself, but he still had hope and confidence that H&V could be as big as Good Vibrations. unfortunately it was just never as accessible or "commercial" as GV, no matter how great it was or could have been. In my opinion anyway.

[bossaroo]

I can't find the proof but wasn't "And Then I Kissed Her" released as a single in 1967, at least in the UK? a horrible move.

[The Shift]

I think Brian had already given up on SMiLE when he put all his focus on Heroes & Villains being a successful single. SMiLE was just too big to wrap his head around all by himself, but he still had hope and confidence that H&V could be as big as Good Vibrations. unfortunately it was just never as accessible or "commercial" as GV, no matter how great it was or could have been. In my opinion anyway.

… in which case then surely the most devastating moment was VDP's exit from the creative process. Together, they might have been able to complete it for a '67 release.

[Larry Franz]

It was hardly a moment, but dropping out of Monterey, giving up on Smile and Brian's gradual withdrawal from the group was the absolutely devastating chain of events. Nothing that happened in later years was even remotely as important to their career.

But nobody knows what would have happened if they'd done well at Monterey, and gotten in that movie, and released a great Smile album. For most people, the Beach Boys were only important from 1963 to 1966. Adding a successful 1967 might have yielded a lot of money and critical esteem and might have permanently changed their image, but given the times and who they were, everything could have easily fallen apart in 1968.

I think many of us fans assume that everything would have been great "if only" they'd gotten it right in 1967. Or "if only" some other scenario occurred. There's a really good probability that things would have gotten screwed up eventually, one way or another, regardless.

[Kurosawa]

the failure to complete and release SMiLE by the summer of '67. so many factors at play from Van Dyke jumping ship, to Mike and the band's reluctance to embrace and encourage Brian to finish it, and of course Brian's own mental instability and lack of confidence and clear-headedness to get the job done (fueled in large part by his reported amphetamine use, in my opinion).

failing to take part in Monterey was not as big a deal, but it's a huge shame they weren't up to it. 1967 was a pivotal year and The Beach Boys really missed the boat.

I also think Mike's dismissal around that time could have really helped the band's momentum and trajectory. Dennis could have stepped out front where he belonged and perhaps being given that sort of responsibility and recognition would have inspired him to take things a bit more seriously (and be taken more seriously) instead of being relegated to a rather minor supporting role where his contributions weren't really vital to the overall equation. a pipe dream I know, but it's fascinating to think about.

other horribly devastating moments:
-Murry selling the catalog
-Manson being connected to the band in any way, shape, or form
-Brian being committed to an institution where he was allegedly given electroshock therapy and thorazine
-the hiring of Landy
-the deterioration and death of Dennis

and last but certainly not least, Carl's premature death and the wretched situation we find ourselves in today: Mike Love controlling the rights to the band name where he would rather share the stage with Bruce Johnston and John Stamos instead of Brian Wilson and Al Jardine. truly devastating to the legacy and all that is fair and right.

Yeah, I think the lack of support from the rest of the band for SMiLE was the very worst thing. Brian was their leader, they should have followed his lead. If they had backed him up, his confidence would have stayed strong and the album would have been finished.  The arrogance that it would take to question Brian Wilson's musical leadership in 1966-67 is just staggering. Denny and Carl should have backed Brian up and the rest of the band should have been told to either shut up and do as they were told or be fired.

[18thofMay]

It all goes back to the relative, perceived "failure" of Pet Sounds, if it went No1 he could afford more time, money and energy to SMiLE. But it didn't and he could not afford mentally to go through with it. It was the first of the one-two punch that floored him. The people that kicked him whilst he was down were all part of the exacerbation of the problem. 

[Mike's Beard]

That's definitely a major misstep...although given what exists, did we really miss much? The California Feelin' piano/vocal track aside, there isn't much worth writing about there unless there's leagues of unheard greatness from the period.

That plus I've Got a Friend, Good Timin', River Song, Rainbows and Angel Come Home all hail from that period. I've never heard it but some have said Mike's Glow Cresent Glow is none too shabby. Plus if Chaplin had never left there'd be Hard Times and stuff from his solo debut. If Rieley was still managing them, there's plenty of quality stuff off Western Justice that could have been worked up into BB material.

+
"Riverboat Queen"  from Blondie's solo record would be worthy of a BB treatment, and I'd be curious what Brian's "Honeycomb" idea with Roy Wood would have sounded like if it was finished...

Funnily enough Riverboat Queen was the first song that popped into my mind when I mentioned Blondie's solo record. Great song.

[Nicko1234]

I also think Mike's dismissal around that time could have really helped the band's momentum and trajectory. Dennis could have stepped out front where he belonged and perhaps being given that sort of responsibility and recognition would have inspired him to take things a bit more seriously (and be taken more seriously) instead of being relegated to a rather minor supporting role where his contributions weren't really vital to the overall equation. a pipe dream I know, but it's fascinating to think about.

He didn`t belong out front and he realized it when forced into that role after injuring his hand. As Ed Roach has commented many times:

I really believe his discomfort in that role contributed a great deal to his drinking.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Absolute no-brainer: the non-release of Smile. Up to then, the trajectory was exponentially upwards. Thereafter, it was all aboard the Handbasket Express, non-stop to Hell.

[Andrew G. Doe]

AGD's review of SiP

You should have seen the original version. Here it is, in full:

"This sucks".

[Andrew G. Doe]

and last but certainly not least, Carl's premature death and the wretched situation we find ourselves in today: Mike Love controlling the rights to the band name...

[sigh]

The legal right to tour as The Beach Boys resides with BRI. They license Mike to do so. As a voting member of BRI he controls exactly 25% of the band name. It's not people's hatred of any given band member that I find dispiriting (their prerogative: I would cheerfully throttle Morrissey with my bare hands, so I have no moral high ground here), rather that they permit those views to obscure established fact.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I can't find the proof but wasn't "And Then I Kissed Her" released as a single in 1967, at least in the UK? a horrible move.

As my father often told me, "try harder":

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/45uk60s.html