Did fans/insiders expect Carl's early '80s departure to be permanent?

[CenturyDeprived]

I can only imagine how much of a bummer it must have been when Carl left.

Was it a case of "tough love" where Carl knew all along he was going to come back? Or did he ever actually consider not returning to the group? And how much of these plans were secret (both to the other band members, to insiders within the BB world, and to fans)?

Did some people think that this was really the end of him being in the band?

[Lee Marshall]

I kind of hoped it would be the absolute and entire END.  They had gone completely stale.  They BADLY needed to rehearse A LOT but they just were not getting along whatsoever.  It was stupid...almost evil...and it sounded that way.  A waste of time and money.  A HUGE disappointment.  So why bother?

But he came back...and some really, TRULY great shows would happen again.  Not as deeply cool and 'spot on' as  they consistently were back in 1971-77...but still...great in their own right.  Work was put in.  An effort was made.  It was as much about the art as it was about the money...and gettin' laid.

I staunchly believed...and still do...that NO Wilsons=NO Beach Boys.  I have come to 'accept' that the Wilson's are represented by the MUSIC and by the arrangements.   That does count.   But I just chortle at those who suggest that the music isn't authentic w/o Mike [and Bruce] singing with it...as is the case with the NO Pier Pressure album.  It'll NEVER-EVER be Beach Boys authentic without Carl in the mix so fire that want, need and desire for Mike's inclusion to make it real onto the wood pile and slather it with spiders.

I'm going to see them in August for the first time since Carl died.  I've seen Brian several times and will again in July.  But the Beach Boys without Carl?  It's gonna be a real test for me.  Geez I hope they pass.  I'd hate to tarnish the long established and, up til now, permanent image from the tour promoting the Good Vibrations Box Set....and all the GREAT concerts from '71 until '77.

Carl.  Man how I miss him.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

I can only imagine how much of a bummer it must have been when Carl left.

Was it a case of "tough love" where Carl knew all along he was going to come back? Or did he ever actually consider not returning to the group? And how much of these plans were secret (both to the other band members, to insiders within the BB world, and to fans)?

Did some people think that this was really the end of him being in the band?

I'm no authority, but I'm pretty sure Carl's departure was more of a sabbatical than a plan to take a permanent hike.  Carl had been itching to record a solo album for quite a while.  Claiming he was leaving because his bandmates refused to rehearse properly more than likely provided him with the excuse (reason) he needed to leave the band.

I'm certainly glad he came back (he saved the Beach Boys by doing so), but it was sad that his solo career was so short-lived.  Given enough time, and the proper handling/promotion, I believe Carl and Myrna could have made hit records.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

Carl.  Man how I miss him.

That makes two of us…and I'd be willing to bet several million more.

[Steve Latshaw]

I believe Carl himself said it wasn't permanent, at the time.  He said something to the effect that he'd "...be back when 1981 meant as much to them as 1961."

[Lee Marshall]

I believe Carl himself said it wasn't permanent, at the time.  He said something to the effect that he'd "...be back when 1981 meant as much to them as 1961."

Sounds right Steve.  He was ticked off.  I was sorry that his 2 solo albums came up a little short.  A couple of nifty tunes on both lps...but, all in all, too much filler.  His return, then, was inevitable on a couple of fronts.  I'm sure that the '3 votes' realized that they were $uffering LARGE w/o him.  I'd also imagine that they primarily agreed to some of Carl's requests and demands for their own $elf Pre$ervation.  T'was the light that shone brightest.

[Emdeeh]

To answer the original question, no, I didn't. My take was that he went on strike.

[CenturyDeprived]

I believe Carl himself said it wasn't permanent, at the time.  He said something to the effect that he'd "...be back when 1981 meant as much to them as 1961."

Sounds right Steve.  He was ticked off.  I was sorry that his 2 solo albums came up a little short.  A couple of nifty tunes on both lps...but, all in all, too much filler.  His return, then, was inevitable on a couple of fronts.  I'm sure that the '3 votes' realized that they were $uffering LARGE w/o him.  I'd also imagine that they primarily agreed to some of Carl's requests and demands for their own $elf Pre$ervation.  T'was the light that shone brightest.

Other than Brian in the early days, could any other Beach Boy other than Carl have made such a threat at any time in the band's history? To have quit the band, given the band an ultimatum of some sort, and then gotten (sort of) what they wanted/demanded from the band upon their return? I'm guessing no, almost laughably so.

[Lee Marshall]

I have nothing but respect for Al Jardine's talents.  The group is stronger...much stronger with him in the lineup.  No question about it.  Not one.  That said...without Carl Wilson's voice...the Beach Boys didn't sound like the Beach Boys.  Carl's became the dominant voice whether he sang lead or not.  His was the magical ingredient which took it over the top.

It's still true even as I type.

It's like black without white.

[Steve Latshaw]

<<Other than Brian in the early days, could any other Beach Boy other than Carl have made such a threat at any time in the band's history? To have quit the band, given the band an ultimatum of some sort, and then gotten (sort of) what they wanted/demanded from the band upon their return? I'm guessing no, almost laughably so.>>

I think it mattered at the time to mass audiences.  I don't think it matters now, to the average concertgoer.  I think the only other person who could have worked from that negotiating position was Mike Love, which seems to be all audiences care about these days.   In effect, I think Mike did quit, in 1998, until he was able to license the name from BRI, so it worked for him.

 Part of it is the group history/dynamic over the years.  The Beatles established their core group before they became famous.  The Beach Boys first hit with Al, then David Marks, then Al again, then Bruce, then Bruce was out and Ricky and Blondie were in, then back to the original 5, then Bruce was back, then Carl was out, etc...

The general public got used to substitutions very early on in the Beach Boys.   But I think Carl was able to gain some measure of control and concessions in 1982 by returning because the group new they played and sounded awful in 1981 without him.  There were some pretty embarrassing shows in '81 and early '82.

[Pretty Funky]

To answer the original question, no, I didn't. My take was that he went on strike.

That's pretty much as I remember it. I recall some dire lip-sync appearances on Solid Gold and the like plus poor press for the Long Beach show and thinking this could be it. They are so bad he wouldn't want to come back! Was a shock when he returned but like most of us, he had to pay the bills.

[Lonely Summer]

The first I knew of Carl going solo was an appearance on the Robert Klein radio show, spring '81. He talked about taking time off from the group to do a solo tour, but there was every indication he would return. I don't think he issued any kind of ultimatum until he'd done the first tour and found out how much fun it was to be onstage with musicians that cared. Really wish we had a pro quality cd of one of those shows, I have 2 tapes from that tour, and the band was smokin'!

[petsite]

I have said so many times that I thought this was the absolute coolest thing Carl Wilson did as a leader. There really was a feeling like "yeah Carl, your gonna quit, sure you are, you will sign the contracts and be back out with us in May". And he wasn't. He returned the touring contracts UNSIGNED. He was out at Caribou living and because Jimmy G. was a really good friend to Carl, he even intercepted calls between CBS and Carl so CBS couldn't get ahold of him. I saw Carl when he came through Houston that year and asked him about returning to the Beach Boys. He said nope, not until the record and "clean up their act". And we all know that the shows without Carl were awful. I got so mad at the group because there was a sense of "Yeah, so what if our shows suck. We are the MF Beach Boys! Buy a ticket and shut up!"

Of course we found out in 1982 on reason they pushed on. Just got look at AGD site and the shows for the group and for Mike Love solo. He was out in some form for most of the year. But it didn't help. In 1982, Mike filed for bankruptcy and his land etc all had to be sold. He was broke. So that was his pressure to continue. And the group had taken more advances for new LPs and the "hits" LP TYOH, but they did nothing to make those things happen. CBS finally said in the early summer of 1981, "ok, no LP's forthcoming, no more $$$$ support from us for your touring. You are on your own!"  Mike was even asked about Carl not touring and he said "We are having one of our biggest years every making money on the road and he isn't getting any of it."

I thought Carl would come back. But he made them wait. I love that he went out with them for 3 days early in 1982 then said "Nah, ain't happening." and went home. The guys them went on to have one of their worst casino gigs EVER. Read Add Some Music about it, or Ian and Jon's book. Really sad.

[Lonely Summer]

I have said so many times that I thought this was the absolute coolest thing Carl Wilson did as a leader. There really was a feeling like "yeah Carl, your gonna quit, sure you are, you will sign the contracts and be back out with us in May". And he wasn't. He returned the touring contracts UNSIGNED. He was out at Caribou living and because Jimmy G. was a really good friend to Carl, he even intercepted calls between CBS and Carl so CBS couldn't get ahold of him. I saw Carl when he came through Houston that year and asked him about returning to the Beach Boys. He said nope, not until the record and "clean up their act". And we all know that the shows without Carl were awful. I got so mad at the group because there was a sense of "Yeah, so what if our shows suck. We are the MF Beach Boys! Buy a ticket and shut up!"

Of course we found out in 1982 on reason they pushed on. Just got look at AGD site and the shows for the group and for Mike Love solo. He was out in some form for most of the year. But it didn't help. In 1982, Mike filed for bankruptcy and his land etc all had to be sold. He was broke. So that was his pressure to continue. And the group had taken more advances for new LPs and the "hits" LP TYOH, but they did nothing to make those things happen. CBS finally said in the early summer of 1981, "ok, no LP's forthcoming, no more $$$$ support from us for your touring. You are on your own!"  Mike was even asked about Carl not touring and he said "We are having one of our biggest years every making money on the road and he isn't getting any of it."

I thought Carl would come back. But he made them wait. I love that he went out with them for 3 days early in 1982 then said "Nah, ain't happening." and went home. The guys them went on to have one of their worst casino gigs EVER. Read Add Some Music about it, or Ian and Jon's book. Really sad.

Typical ML: "We are having one of our biggest years ever making money on the road"...yeah, and sounding absolutely terrible! Nothing to be proud of. It took guts to do what Carl did, but he was having so much more fun with his own band, playing smaller places instead of arenas and baseball parks. It really showed when he was onstage with his band, they were into the music, really rocked those solo songs.

[petsite]

And because Carl was the only one not touring, and because he really cared about the product, he took it upon himself to master the Ten Years Of Harmony set. It was said he remixed some tracks, but it doesn't really sound like it. I think he just remastered them with more EQ then before to give them some punch. It sounded GREAT!