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Author Topic: Why Al's sudden switch?  (Read 3536 times)
SurferDownUnder
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« on: May 10, 2015, 06:43:05 PM »

Interestingly, in those posts from Jack Rieley's discussion after his recent passing there were statements he made that suggested it was Jardine/Johnston/Love against the Wilson brothers when it came to deciding what the bands niche would be in the mid-late 1970's. Why was Al on board with the other two members when it came to the more throwback fashion of music the Boys played? Especially when considering later that he floated the idea of a Pet Sounds tour? Was it the airport tarmac incident? Do you think Al really agreed with Mike and Bruce or was it more of a situation of him seeing Mike and Bruce as a more sober, practical unit then the Wilson's? Do you think he regretted it later what with the issues he had with Mike in the 90's and after Carl's death? Just curious to gauge your guys opinions on the seemingly flip-flop attitude Al had sometimes displayed Razz
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GhostyTMRS
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2015, 06:58:21 PM »

 Al was (and still is, I would hope) vehemently anti-drug. I think he had much less of a problem with Carl and Brian after they sobered and cleaned up. He really didn't have a choice back in the 70's as to who to side with.

It's always interesting to look back at how the boys have been perceived by the fan community over the years. It's alarmingly inconsistent.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 07:02:18 PM by GhostyTMRS » Logged
dcowboys107
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2015, 07:01:03 PM »

I'm no expert on these matters but I'll go from this from an empathetic standpoint.

By the late sixties and early seventies the guys had had a handful of commercial flops with Brian becoming ever more reclusive and Dennis ramping up with his reckless abandon.

Smile
was aborted and every attempt to to release it, as was expected by Warner Brothers, ended up in essential failure.

If I were Al, I'd could see where I'd prefer the pseudo professionalism of Mike and Bruce.  Mike has kept the show going through rain and storm and Bruce has been a loyal sidemen and rather quality contributor through out the years.

Al most likely realized that the avant garde material was only causing conflict within the band, and had caused the obsessive compulsive Brian to lose it trying to get Smile right and to only have it shelved.

Al knew what worked and what fans liked and probably got tired of the Wilson excesses that Brian and Dennis eventually became infamous for.

I think Al probably liked Pet Sounds from the get-go from what I've read, he's always been quite complimentary towards it.  It really isn't too "far out" and was a natural progression from the previous few albums.  From what I understand as well, he liked Smile as well which seemed to flow naturally as well.  I think all the craziness during that period and the periods that followed, and the lack of vision and drive from the former creative leader made him reconsider where they were going and look towards what had made them successful and so well known.

At the end of the day everyone has bills to pay and I bet going to the home studio to only witness the overindulgence and laziness probably got really old.

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donald
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2015, 07:53:44 PM »

I have often been uncertain about the band factions and Al's place in it all over the years.     Good topic.    How did AJ find himself caught between the Mike and Carl factions and find himself the odd man out after Carl's death?     In considering this I have often flashed back to the EH interview when Al said he had a hard time imagining a BeachBoys without Carl Wilson.    Wko can elaborate without starting a bash some one thread?
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GhostyTMRS
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2015, 08:13:23 PM »

If you listen to Phil Miglioratti's interview with publicist Warren Duffy...Al was more of the odd man out than fans previously thought: http://ia600409.us.archive.org/18/items/PhoneInnerviewWwarrenDuffyAug132009/DuffyConcallAug132009_vbr.mp3
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Wirestone
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2015, 09:02:32 PM »

According to Al's telling, he and Carl became much closer during the 80s and 90s. He apparently strongly disagreed with Mike's concepts for the band, including the infamous cheerleaders.
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donald
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2015, 09:07:52 PM »

If you listen to Phil Miglioratti's interview with publicist Warren Duffy...Al was more of the odd man out than fans previously thought: http://ia600409.us.archive.org/18/items/PhoneInnerviewWwarrenDuffyAug132009/DuffyConcallAug132009_vbr.mp3

Wow.   Can't believe I just sat and listened to that long Christian Rap.   but I have to say, there were some insights to the Beachboys that we're offering some perspective irregardless of your religious or spiritual pursues ion.    an
 Interesting cap to my evening.     this guy sounds like a neutral observer of sorts and saw ML as a long term stabilizing influence and Al who was a guy who kept getting his tits in the wringer  with the band and not just ML.   different strokes for sure.   thanks for posting
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joe_blow
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2015, 09:32:11 PM »

In the BBC documentary, Wouldn't It Be Nice, Al talks favorably about Dennis, and not so of Mike. He claims that Shawn is Mike's daughter, despite what Love would say.
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SurferDownUnder
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2015, 09:36:31 PM »

I can definitely understand Al siding with those who weren't inclined to the drug culture i.e. Love/Johnston, but even his musical contributions like those on MIU and LA (Lady Lynda) are much more modern for the time then the oldies that seemed to have been placed in by Mike etc. Do you think that Al preferred to make more contemporary music but realised that it was only the troubled Wilson's championing that cause and thus sided with the others? Its quite a blurred topic, Al's never really gone into his feelings about Dennis' or Brian's drug use in that period has he?
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Wirestone
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2015, 10:30:20 PM »

I think it comes down to a simple fact: Al isn't family. The central relationships in the band were always between the Wilson brothers and Mike. Bruce has always seen himself as a sideman. So that leaves Al, present from the beginning, crucial in many ways, yet always an outsider. And I imagine that he's coped with that in different ways over the years. Sometimes, he's tried to assert himself creatively (producing MIU, for instance), at other times he's tried to increase his influence by allaying with one side or the other.

Ultimately, he seems to have decided that working with Brian is simply better for posterity's sake, and his own reputation. But I just don't think the other guys in the band ever thought much of him, unfortunately. I'd love to think Brian appreciates him now, though, for his voice if nothing else.
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SurferDownUnder
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2015, 11:43:24 PM »

I think it comes down to a simple fact: Al isn't family. The central relationships in the band were always between the Wilson brothers and Mike. Bruce has always seen himself as a sideman. So that leaves Al, present from the beginning, crucial in many ways, yet always an outsider. And I imagine that he's coped with that in different ways over the years. Sometimes, he's tried to assert himself creatively (producing MIU, for instance), at other times he's tried to increase his influence by allaying with one side or the other.

Ultimately, he seems to have decided that working with Brian is simply better for posterity's sake, and his own reputation. But I just don't think the other guys in the band ever thought much of him, unfortunately. I'd love to think Brian appreciates him now, though, for his voice if nothing else.

It's sad really, Al was arguably the most consistent member and his vocals have always been top-notch. It would have been interesting to see if in another timeline how he would have fared as a solo artist of the folk/rock genre.
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smilethebeachboysloveyou
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2015, 01:18:25 AM »

If you listen to Phil Miglioratti's interview with publicist Warren Duffy...Al was more of the odd man out than fans previously thought: http://ia600409.us.archive.org/18/items/PhoneInnerviewWwarrenDuffyAug132009/DuffyConcallAug132009_vbr.mp3

Sorry to change the subject, but he says that Brian was into Scientology?  I don't think I've heard or read that anywhere before.
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2015, 01:34:14 AM »

I can definitely understand Al siding with those who weren't inclined to the drug culture i.e. Love/Johnston, but even his musical contributions like those on MIU and LA (Lady Lynda) are much more modern for the time then the oldies that seemed to have been placed in by Mike etc. Do you think that Al preferred to make more contemporary music but realised that it was only the troubled Wilson's championing that cause and thus sided with the others? Its quite a blurred topic, Al's never really gone into his feelings about Dennis' or Brian's drug use in that period has he?

I`m not really sure that Come Go With Me, Peggy Sue, Kona Coast and certainly Lady Lynda could be described as modern... Smiley

As for the late 1970s, Mike and Al voted in support of 15 Big Ones as they knew that they needed new product out there. Now I think it`s a terrible album and one of the biggest backward steps in rock history but their reasoning makes perfect sense. It had been 3 years since their last studio album and their Caribou efforts hadn`t produced a great deal.

Mike and Al both reportedly gave Brian a hard time when they heard Love You but, while that`s sad, it`s again understandable. Even after Carl`s hard work, it still isn`t exactly the album that any band hoping for the smallest amount of commercial success would want to release.

And, as GhostyTMRS rightly said, there is also the drugs issue...

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shelter
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2015, 03:15:03 AM »

I don't know if Al really ever "switched", I guess it just depended on what the main problem was. If the band wasn't functioning well because of drug and alcohol abuse, Al would obviously pick Mike's and Bruce's side. If there was a discussion about the creative direction of the band, he might've been inclined to stick with the Wilsons.
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SurferDownUnder
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2015, 04:28:09 AM »

I can definitely understand Al siding with those who weren't inclined to the drug culture i.e. Love/Johnston, but even his musical contributions like those on MIU and LA (Lady Lynda) are much more modern for the time then the oldies that seemed to have been placed in by Mike etc. Do you think that Al preferred to make more contemporary music but realised that it was only the troubled Wilson's championing that cause and thus sided with the others? Its quite a blurred topic, Al's never really gone into his feelings about Dennis' or Brian's drug use in that period has he?

I`m not really sure that Come Go With Me, Peggy Sue, Kona Coast and certainly Lady Lynda could be described as modern... Smiley





Yeah, I kinda mean at least Lady Lynda and Santa Ana Winds are original attempts and not just re-hashing of the same formula like KTSA or the Beach Boys Medley were
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Lee Marshall
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2015, 05:26:28 AM »

Who knows what went on in private?  What was said?  By whom?  [and I mean way back in the early to mid 60s...let alone later]  Al and Brian were friends from before when the Beach Boys came to fruition.  Al was there at the start but left, as most everyone knows, to pursue education and a career.  So was he, then, considered not a real Beach Boy?  It was Brian who asked him to come back in order to play bass and cover for Brian...not to replace David.

I think Al went with what made the most sense at any given juncture in the 'festivities'.  That might have been a difficult thing to ascertain at several points along the Beach-side path.

I would GUESS...and it would seem reasonably easy to suggest...that AL has always [professionally speaking]  kept the best interests of the Beach Boys/the group at the forefront. Cool Guy

That said then...I don't think 'it' was sudden.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 05:28:52 AM by Add Some » Logged

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drbeachboy
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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2015, 10:43:57 AM »

I can definitely understand Al siding with those who weren't inclined to the drug culture i.e. Love/Johnston, but even his musical contributions like those on MIU and LA (Lady Lynda) are much more modern for the time then the oldies that seemed to have been placed in by Mike etc. Do you think that Al preferred to make more contemporary music but realised that it was only the troubled Wilson's championing that cause and thus sided with the others? Its quite a blurred topic, Al's never really gone into his feelings about Dennis' or Brian's drug use in that period has he?

I`m not really sure that Come Go With Me, Peggy Sue, Kona Coast and certainly Lady Lynda could be described as modern... Smiley

As for the late 1970s, Mike and Al voted in support of 15 Big Ones as they knew that they needed new product out there. Now I think it`s a terrible album and one of the biggest backward steps in rock history but their reasoning makes perfect sense. It had been 3 years since their last studio album and their Caribou efforts hadn`t produced a great deal.

Mike and Al both reportedly gave Brian a hard time when they heard Love You but, while that`s sad, it`s again understandable. Even after Carl`s hard work, it still isn`t exactly the album that any band hoping for the smallest amount of commercial success would want to release.

And, as GhostyTMRS rightly said, there is also the drugs issue...


Well, Come Go with Me and Peggy Sue were 15 Big Ones left overs. Compared to the original 15BO tracks, the MIU mixes sound more contemporary. Lady Lynda may have classical overtones, but it doesn't have an oldies feel like the 15 Big Ones stuff. As for Love You, I am not sure how pleased Mike & Al were with the finished product, but on the demo boot, everyone seemed pretty excited at what Brian presented to them, especially Mike.

I can understand how they took the oldies route in 1975 through 1980. I mean. they were filling large stadiums on every tour. Once things began to settle in the 1980's and beyond, I can see Al & Carl wanting to get back to recording and away from the jukebox circuit. Probably why they drew closer over that time frame. Not having a recording contract after 1985 could not have boded well for either and most likely enhanced Mike's position regarding performing. Touring is really all that they had until Capitol have them a one-off to do Still Cruisin'.
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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2015, 11:05:24 AM »

Al was the one behind the Unplugged segment in the 90s, I believe.
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mikeddonn
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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2015, 02:04:51 PM »

I also remember a live 'boot' where someone shouts 'Farmer's Daughter' and Al seems quite receptive, noting that it was a good suggestion and that they should try it sometime.

I also think that it's come full circle with Al and Brian.  The two high school buddies who started singing together, which kind of led to the band getting together, now back singing and touring together.  Hopefully for as long as Brian makes music and tours Al will be by his side.
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