Mike the dominant creative force when it came to conceptual content?

[18thofMay]

What a waste of people's time and energy this thread is.

[Wirestone]

It's funny -- "I'm a genius too" was one of the first things that ran across my mind when this topic came up.

This is Mike's latest moment to overreach, to say something that ultimately will be used against him for years.

[Mike's Beard]

 I think a lot of this stems from the many years back, when Mike Love went uncredited on so many tunes for which he'd written lyrics. Let's face it, that would  have stung any of us - rightly so. If Mike had gotten credit way back when, he might not need to endlessly trump himself in every interview he gives. A lot of rock critics would think more highly of Mike as an artist had his true lyrical input been known all those years ago.

  None of this should ignore the fact that Mike, like every other member of the band, has (or, sadly, had) issues. Has he learned nothing of PR these last 52 summers as a pop star of consequence? Or is Mike Love just another crazy Beach Boy?

I think Carl was the only Beach Boy with his head completely screwed on tight.

[sea of tunes]

LuHv won what battle? To become a travelling oldies mahajukebox tribute band with one original member? Man, those are some real spoils goin' on there. What an absolute boring concept.

He WuHn that conflict within the group, sure.  That was his vision of things, playing that old material and living with that "image".  Occasionally he needs to re-inject some freshness into the proceedings and makes nice with BDW.  Otherwise - County Fair here we come!

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly, myke Luhv is a joke.

[sea of tunes]

 I think a lot of this stems from the many years back, when Mike Love went uncredited on so many tunes for which he'd written lyrics. Let's face it, that would  have stung any of us - rightly so. If Mike had gotten credit way back when, he might not need to endlessly trump himself in every interview he gives. A lot of rock critics would think more highly of Mike as an artist had his true lyrical input been known all those years ago.

  None of this should ignore the fact that Mike, like every other member of the band, has (or, sadly, had) issues. Has he learned nothing of PR these last 52 summers as a pop star of consequence? Or is Mike Love just another crazy Beach Boy?

Those are fair points.  The lawsuit in the early 1990's though did reveal that Mike felt like he deserved a song writing credit for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" (the coda "Goodnight baby, sleep tight baby" was his contribution).  That's the kind of thing that rubs me the wrong way.  The original 45s do credit Mike quite a bit.  One of the notable one's that does not is "I Get Around" (the intro "Round Round get around" was Mike's supposedly).  The inexplicable one is "California Girls", that almost seems like something Murry did (not crediting Mike as a co-writer).

What I always come back to in my mind when it comes to Mike though are the stories (we know them all, I don't need to recite them) but I will reference one.  That Mike wanted to write more 'upbeat' lyrics to "Til I Die".  Really?  REALLY???  

[Vernon Surfer]

I don't contribute that often so, be kind. I am no Fan of Mike Love. That being said, I feel that he contributed one hell of a lot to the BB. I agree that he he is tactless and I think that his stage presence and on-stage banter is corny and, at times embarrassing. His contribution through his lyrics was very important to the success that they have enjoyed through the years. that is my position. Crucify me if you like.
One damned thing that has bugged me a lot though is why he took so many years to complain about his uncredited composing? I would have bitched and complained the minute that any disks came out with my name omitted the moment that I noticed it. He's is presented so often as a money grabber. Why would he miss out on the royalties and not complain from the start. I will never understand that.
I agree with an earlier statement that Carl had his head screwed on right but we are forgetting little old Al.
I think that Mike deserves credit and respect for his contributions. The fact that I don't particularly like the guy has no bearing on my respect for guys contributions..

[drbeachboy]

Murry Wilson: "Brian, I'm a genius too".

M.E. Love: "But lyrically and conceptually, I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship.

Eugene Landy: "(Speaking of his business partnership with BDW) "Brains & Genius; Brains is Brian with the 'i' and 'a' reversed and Genius is...obvious".

Juxtapose those with...

Brian Wilson: "I'm not a genius.  I'm just a hard working guy".  

What do all those men have in common, Brian Wilson.  All, in their own way were either abusive, jealous or manipulative of the one thing they all had in common, Brian Wilson.  It's so striking that in their own way each man wanted to lay some claim to what Brian had in his soul.  Luckily, as I said way earlier in this thread (quoting Churchill) "History is written by the victors".  And Brian Wilson is a winner and survivor.

M.E. Love made fine contributions to the Beach Boys and their music and some pretty awful one's too.  His deep down desire to "smell the greasepaint" was his ultimate undoing because of his unwillingness to grow as a musician.  He saw himself as a performer, not an artist.  The Wilson brothers largely viewed themselves as artists.  Those two competing factions couldn't go on forever and eventually M.E. Love won the battle and settled the Beach Boys down into what they have been for nearly 30 years.  

A vote was needed for Mike to win the battle. Brian often voted with Mike and Al. After Carl passed away, Brian also voted to give Mike the license. None of what happened over the past 30 years cannot be attributed to just one band member. Brian and Al are just as at fault for all that went down. Carl could be at fault, as well. Who knows how he voted after Dennis passed and after Kokomo hit number one. For at least 8 years he went along with all of their endeavors.

[CenturyDeprived]

I don't contribute that often so, be kind. I am no Fan of Mike Love. That being said, I feel that he contributed one hell of a lot to the BB. I agree that he he is tactless and I think that his stage presence and on-stage banter is corny and, at times embarrassing. His contribution through his lyrics was very important to the success that they have enjoyed through the years. that is my position. Crucify me if you like.
One damned thing that has bugged me a lot though is why he took so many years to complain about his uncredited composing? I would have bitched and complained the minute that any disks came out with my name omitted the moment that I noticed it. He's is presented so often as a money grabber. Why would he miss out on the royalties and not complain from the start. I will never understand that.
I agree with an earlier statement that Carl had his head screwed on right but we are forgetting little old Al.
I think that Mike deserves credit and respect for his contributions. The fact that I don't particularly like the guy has no bearing on my respect for guys contributions..

I similarly find it hard to understand why it took him so long to complain about the credits, but then I think of the Bill Cosby rape case, where the many women who took forever to deal with their cases too had their reasons. That in and of itself doesn't make me outright doubt the legitimacy of the claims. I guess Mike must have either been afraid of the legal mess, or afraid that this could get ugly to the point of potentially harming the personal relationship with Brian in the 60s/70s, during a period which he felt there could be (and indeed would be) further Brian/Mike collaborations which a lawsuit could have impeded.  Some people think he was waiting for Brian's most weakened non-protected time to jump. I dunno. It's weird, like everything else with this band.

[SMiLE Brian]

He saw BW won ten million from his trial to reclaim his songwriting ownership and as usual, Mike went for the cash.

[sea of tunes]

Murry Wilson: "Brian, I'm a genius too".

M.E. Love: "But lyrically and conceptually, I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship.

Eugene Landy: "(Speaking of his business partnership with BDW) "Brains & Genius; Brains is Brian with the 'i' and 'a' reversed and Genius is...obvious".

Juxtapose those with...

Brian Wilson: "I'm not a genius.  I'm just a hard working guy".  

What do all those men have in common, Brian Wilson.  All, in their own way were either abusive, jealous or manipulative of the one thing they all had in common, Brian Wilson.  It's so striking that in their own way each man wanted to lay some claim to what Brian had in his soul.  Luckily, as I said way earlier in this thread (quoting Churchill) "History is written by the victors".  And Brian Wilson is a winner and survivor.

M.E. Love made fine contributions to the Beach Boys and their music and some pretty awful one's too.  His deep down desire to "smell the greasepaint" was his ultimate undoing because of his unwillingness to grow as a musician.  He saw himself as a performer, not an artist.  The Wilson brothers largely viewed themselves as artists.  Those two competing factions couldn't go on forever and eventually M.E. Love won the battle and settled the Beach Boys down into what they have been for nearly 30 years.  

A vote was needed for Mike to win the battle. Brian often voted with Mike and Al. After Carl passed away, Brian also voted to give Mike the license. None of what happened over the past 30 years cannot be attributed to just one band member. Brian and Al are just as at fault for all that went down. Carl could be at fault, as well. Who knows how he voted after Dennis passed and after Kokomo hit number one. For at least 8 years he went along with all of their endeavors.

That's true.  I think I've heard it told that Brian's vote with Mike & Al was more because of Carl & Dennis' instability at the time.

[CenturyDeprived]

 I think a lot of this stems from the many years back, when Mike Love went uncredited on so many tunes for which he'd written lyrics. Let's face it, that would  have stung any of us - rightly so. If Mike had gotten credit way back when, he might not need to endlessly trump himself in every interview he gives. A lot of rock critics would think more highly of Mike as an artist had his true lyrical input been known all those years ago.
 

This is true, however I do question how much more highly Mike would have been thought of by critics if his name had been on the credits all along. Maybe some, but I can't imagine it would have been a majorly significant difference, like he might perhaps think it would have. Curious to hear what others think...

Mike IMO remains to this day messed up, majorly messed up, over this admittedly grossly unfair issue he had to endure for decades. I cannot think that the person he is today is not informed by what this did to him. The thing is, does HE see this correlation himself? Does MIKE think he has deep issues/complexes that have manifested in very bad ways as a result of his legit crediting slighting? What do you think, Kokomoasits? Oh wait. You guys are gonna say that the decades of slighting didn't effect him in any negatively perceptible way that is self-destructive to his own reputation or the band in any way shape or form, right? That he's dealt with those emotions in a mature way, and fully moved on from any feelings of historical slighting? Just like the Wilsons moved on from what their dad did to them, right? Or do you think Mike just gets to be absolved of any possible egomaniacal behavior because of what the slighting did to him? I could understand if the latter is your viewpoint, even if I'd find some issue with it. However, the former viewpoint is absurd.

There are parallels (obviously many huge differences too) regarding how the Wilson brothers got messed up from their dad. Mike never has hesitated to point this out in interviews, how the Wilson brothers developed destructive tendencies in part due to complexes they developed early on. He is capable of seeing this in others, but no way to see this in himself?

I think it would be hard for anyone not to have some degree of empathy for how it must have felt to be screwed out of credits. The empathy could continue if he would see the connection to bad behaviors that manifested in himself. I just don't know if he'd see there's a problem, to be able to see how much it screwed him up too.

There's an good amount of more empathy waiting for Mike Love if he would ever publicly own up to his own problems, the way Brian so bravely has. But again - it's black and white. Mike Love admits never to having any problems, the same handful of posters continue to defend everything he does (and claim that any "possible" emotional damage due to being slighted over credits did not manifest itself in egomaniacal ways). No correlation, right? None whatsoever? I think if Mike gave an interview finally owning up to a lot of regret due to his own crappy behaviors, even if he could trace his issues to blame the crediting situation having emotionally screwed him up, that people like Cam would defend those behaviors and say that Mike is being too hard on himself by backing down even a smidgen from his decades-long steadfastly defensive position.  

Kokomoasits think that so many people critical of Mike want to play the blame game, blaming Mike squarely for so many things. Well suppose we shift the blame of Mike doing/saying bad things due to complexes he sustained due to Murry and a passive Brian not fairly crediting him. Suppose we say that the negative aspects of Mike's personality are not his "fault" any more than the negative aspects of the Wilson brothers are their "fault".  Fine, let's say that. But to take the additional extra step and say that things like this that Mike says are simply just fine, harmless, and not overreaching is very inaccurate. One can have an understanding of where Mike's "coming from" and still admit that he's going too far.

[Douchepool]

He saw BW won ten million from his trial to reclaim his songwriting ownership and as usual, Mike went for the cash.

Michael tried to settle with Brian out of court for $750,000 and future credit and royalties. The people around Brian decided to fight it...which was a stupid decision.

[CenturyDeprived]

He saw BW won ten million from his trial to reclaim his songwriting ownership and as usual, Mike went for the cash.

Michael tried to settle with Brian out of court for $750,000 and future credit and royalties. The people around Brian decided to fight it...which was a stupid decision.

Absolutely agreed.

[GhostyTMRS]

13 pages in  a thread devoted to just ONE sentence Mike uttered. Crap, no wonder he's writing a book. 

Let's see...$22.99 hardcover price X 31,013 members = 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It's funny because when I was a ten year old Beach Boys fan in 1990, I had the idea that Mike Love wrote the lyrics to most of the songs. Thinking back it may have stemmed from that comment that Brian makes in that mid-70s interview that's featured in the American Band doc (which I saw a few times at that age) where he says he writes most with Mike Love (and sometimes Carl) but his favourite person to write with is Van Dyke Parks.

[filledeplage]

He saw BW won ten million from his trial to reclaim his songwriting ownership and as usual, Mike went for the cash.

Michael tried to settle with Brian out of court for $750,000 and future credit and royalties. The people around Brian decided to fight it...which was a stupid decision.

Absolutely agreed.

And then things unfolded and the evidence unfolded showing that Murry had set the wheels in motion for royalties and attribution to be un-compensated. The SOT sale.

So the court decided that monies were owed.  Brian went after his attribution  (as well he should have) but Mike was "similarly situated" and was deprived as well. 

So the two guys do the same thing, and that is bad, why? 

Some stuff is online.  It would be interesting to read the whole line of cases and not depend of poster "hearsay."

[filledeplage]

I don't contribute that often so, be kind. I am no Fan of Mike Love. That being said, I feel that he contributed one hell of a lot to the BB. I agree that he he is tactless and I think that his stage presence and on-stage banter is corny and, at times embarrassing. His contribution through his lyrics was very important to the success that they have enjoyed through the years. that is my position. Crucify me if you like.
One damned thing that has bugged me a lot though is why he took so many years to complain about his uncredited composing? I would have bitched and complained the minute that any disks came out with my name omitted the moment that I noticed it. He's is presented so often as a money grabber. Why would he miss out on the royalties and not complain from the start. I will never understand that.
I agree with an earlier statement that Carl had his head screwed on right but we are forgetting little old Al.
I think that Mike deserves credit and respect for his contributions. The fact that I don't particularly like the guy has no bearing on my respect for guys contributions..

I similarly find it hard to understand why it took him so long to complain about the credits, but then I think of the Bill Cosby rape case, where the many women who took forever to deal with their cases too had their reasons. That in and of itself doesn't make me outright doubt the legitimacy of the claims. I guess Mike must have either been afraid of the legal mess, or afraid that this could get ugly to the point of potentially harming the personal relationship with Brian in the 60s/70s, during a period which he felt there could be (and indeed would be) further Brian/Mike collaborations which a lawsuit could have impeded.  Some people think he was waiting for Brian's most weakened non-protected time to jump. I dunno. It's weird, like everything else with this band.

You answered your own question.  Why did they/he wait?  Why did those women wait?

Why did kids wait to report pedophile priests?

Who thinks that a family member would screw his own kids out of the fruits of their labor?  Who thinks an uncle would do the same?

Fewer protections were in place to defend against predator companies, or deal with "payola" mechanisms in the music industry. On an on...

Murry did help them get established, and he deserves that credit, but it seems to have been a double-edged sword.  They appear to have had complicated relationships. And judging people 50 years after the fact applies a lens from 1960 in 2015. 
I don't think it is appropriate.  Life was so different then.

[CenturyDeprived]

I don't contribute that often so, be kind. I am no Fan of Mike Love. That being said, I feel that he contributed one hell of a lot to the BB. I agree that he he is tactless and I think that his stage presence and on-stage banter is corny and, at times embarrassing. His contribution through his lyrics was very important to the success that they have enjoyed through the years. that is my position. Crucify me if you like.
One damned thing that has bugged me a lot though is why he took so many years to complain about his uncredited composing? I would have bitched and complained the minute that any disks came out with my name omitted the moment that I noticed it. He's is presented so often as a money grabber. Why would he miss out on the royalties and not complain from the start. I will never understand that.
I agree with an earlier statement that Carl had his head screwed on right but we are forgetting little old Al.
I think that Mike deserves credit and respect for his contributions. The fact that I don't particularly like the guy has no bearing on my respect for guys contributions..

I similarly find it hard to understand why it took him so long to complain about the credits, but then I think of the Bill Cosby rape case, where the many women who took forever to deal with their cases too had their reasons. That in and of itself doesn't make me outright doubt the legitimacy of the claims. I guess Mike must have either been afraid of the legal mess, or afraid that this could get ugly to the point of potentially harming the personal relationship with Brian in the 60s/70s, during a period which he felt there could be (and indeed would be) further Brian/Mike collaborations which a lawsuit could have impeded.  Some people think he was waiting for Brian's most weakened non-protected time to jump. I dunno. It's weird, like everything else with this band.

You answered your own question.  Why did they/he wait?  Why did those women wait?

Why did kids wait to report pedophile priests?

Who thinks that a family member would screw his own kids out of the fruits of their labor?  Who thinks an uncle would do the same?

Fewer protections were in place to defend against predator companies, or deal with "payola" mechanisms in the music industry. On an on...

Murry did help them get established, and he deserves that credit, but it seems to have been a double-edged sword.  They appear to have had complicated relationships. And judging people 50 years after the fact applies a lens from 1960 in 2015.  
I don't think it is appropriate.  Life was so different then.

I'm not being so quick to negativity question or judge why he waited, just so you know. I think there are a lot of reasons and it may not be a very simple thing to answer though. But I don't think that from the onset he abstained from complaining out of some big evil plot. I just think the direct and indirect repercussions of that unfortunate crediting snafu need to be addressed and dealt with. They are inextricably tied to why Mike says exaggerated claims such as the topic of this thread.

[filledeplage]

I don't contribute that often so, be kind. I am no Fan of Mike Love. That being said, I feel that he contributed one hell of a lot to the BB. I agree that he he is tactless and I think that his stage presence and on-stage banter is corny and, at times embarrassing. His contribution through his lyrics was very important to the success that they have enjoyed through the years. that is my position. Crucify me if you like.
One damned thing that has bugged me a lot though is why he took so many years to complain about his uncredited composing? I would have bitched and complained the minute that any disks came out with my name omitted the moment that I noticed it. He's is presented so often as a money grabber. Why would he miss out on the royalties and not complain from the start. I will never understand that.
I agree with an earlier statement that Carl had his head screwed on right but we are forgetting little old Al.
I think that Mike deserves credit and respect for his contributions. The fact that I don't particularly like the guy has no bearing on my respect for guys contributions..

I similarly find it hard to understand why it took him so long to complain about the credits, but then I think of the Bill Cosby rape case, where the many women who took forever to deal with their cases too had their reasons. That in and of itself doesn't make me outright doubt the legitimacy of the claims. I guess Mike must have either been afraid of the legal mess, or afraid that this could get ugly to the point of potentially harming the personal relationship with Brian in the 60s/70s, during a period which he felt there could be (and indeed would be) further Brian/Mike collaborations which a lawsuit could have impeded.  Some people think he was waiting for Brian's most weakened non-protected time to jump. I dunno. It's weird, like everything else with this band.

You answered your own question.  Why did they/he wait?  Why did those women wait?

Why did kids wait to report pedophile priests?

Who thinks that a family member would screw his own kids out of the fruits of their labor?  Who thinks an uncle would do the same?

Fewer protections were in place to defend against predator companies, or deal with "payola" mechanisms in the music industry. On an on...

Murry did help them get established, and he deserves that credit, but it seems to have been a double-edged sword.  They appear to have had complicated relationships. And judging people 50 years after the fact applies a lens from 1960 in 2015.  
I don't think it is appropriate.  Life was so different then.

I'm not being so quick to negativity question or judge why he waited, just so you know. I think there are a lot of reasons and it may not be a very simple thing to answer though. But I don't think that from the onset he abstained from complaining out of some big evil plot. I just think the direct and indirect repercussions of that unfortunate crediting snafu need to be addressed and dealt with. They are inextricably tied to why Mike says exaggerated claims such as the topic of this thread.

Yes, it is simple. Sociology 101. The recognition of Murry as the head of the household. No gender equality for Brian's mother.  She was no match for him.

Read up on the history of the movie industry and child stars being exploited by any number of people, including parents.  Murry was in control.  Those younger boys were not protected as to their attribution rights which were vulnerable.

But, my opinion on your motivation is of no consequence.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Tried to stay out of this, but hell. You took a swipe at GF, called him a hypocrite, and now refuse to back it up. If you have something to say, then say it. Tell you what, if you continue with this, you don't have to worry about him banning you, cause I'd have already done it. Say what you meant, or better yet discuss it privately with h8m, just quit clogging up the board with this garbage.

I spend a lot of time defending Mike when he's unfairly attacked (same with Brian, or anybody ) and crap like this is why it's so damn difficult. I'm supposed to be working right now yet I'm putting my job on the line dealing with this childish fuckery. Gloves are about to come off.

Billy, I feel terrible about this. I mean, for you to have to risk your job to come on the board to keep me from clogging the board with my crap and garbage, well, frankly I'm embarrassed. You know, Billy, I have this problem. It seems that I'm always posting something that upsets people on this board. But, I'll change; I know that I have the ability to change. And, just to show you that I'm on the right track, I'd like to apologize to anybody I offended with anything I posted, including guitarfool2012. But, Billy, there's still a few "loose ends" that I have to clear up before I can truly reach my goal on this message board. And, Billy, you're the perfect person to help me. I just have a few questions that I need answers for, if you don't mind.

Question 1: If a poster expresses their opinion about Brian Wilson, say a Brian Wilson solo album or a Brian Wilson TV performance for example, and an Honored Guest or a Moderator responds to that post by calling it "utter bullshit" or "total bullshit" or just plain old "bullshit", does the original poster have the right to then, in turn, refer to the Honored Guest or Moderator's post by calling IT "utter bullshit" or "total bullshit" or just plain old "bullshit"?

Question 2: Scott Totten recently posted, "Mike gets slandered and trashed on a regular basis and many of you think that is equal to wondering whether Brian played piano. I don't find these two examples to be of equal value. I really feel that some of you are bullies." Billy, when I read that I thought, "Uh oh, there's going to be some outrage now. Somebody is accusing board members of not only unwarranted Mike Love bashing, but also bullying. The moderators aren't going to like that." However, there was no outrage, barely a ripple. I then thought, "Gee, the moderators must agree with Scott.

Well, earlier in this thread I read this post, "Mike is a sad and insecure man", and "Mike is a wretched human being to his so called songwriting partner, Brian Wilson", and finally I read, "I don't think anyone can argue that Mike is the most tactless BB member, relatively speaking, nobody even comes close." Well, Billy, again I thought, "Now there will be outrage because the moderators must've agreed with Scott and will respond to this Mike bashing." So, I kept checking the board and checking the board, but I never saw a single moderator respond to those posts. No calling them "total bullshit", no asking them to apologize to Mike, not even a "Gloves are about to come off." Now I'm confused.

Thread after thread, post after post, things like Mike Love's vocals and Mike Love's lyrics and Mike Love's solo songs are criticized. Over and over. And I get that; this is a music message board. But, sadly, every other possible area of Mike's career, character - and life - is also criticized. I've read posts criticizing Mike's spiritual pursuits, Mike's personal conduct on the road, and I've even seen comments directed about the legitimacy of his children. And, those comments were allowed. I ask you, Billy, would those same comments be permitted if they were directed at Brian Wilson? I ask an even more specific question. If somebody merely substituted the name Brian Wilson in place of Mike Love, would the same comment be allowed? For example, Brian Wilson is a wretched human being. Brain Wilson is the most tactless BB member and nobody comes close. I don't think they would permitted. Wow, I almost slipped and used the "h" word. But, see, I'm already getting better and caught myself.

Just one more thing, Billy, and I'm sorry to bother you, but, well, it's about my wife. Oh, don't misunderstand, she's a wonderful woman. She volunteers at church, works at charities; she's a beautiful person. But, see, Billy, when I'm reading or posting on the message board, she thinks I'm discussing good vibrations, going to the beach, and fun, fun, fun. Sometimes she's lurking, you know, when she's cleaning, and she'll occasionally take a peek at the computer monitor, and, well, Billy, if she saw where you described my posts as "childish fuckery", she'd get very upset. She's very sensitive. So, Billy, the next time you insult me or use derogatory terms to describe my posts, could you not use the term "child fuckery"? 

Billy, thank you for everything you do for this message board. I realize it's a long, hard, thankless job. Love and mercy... 

[18thofMay]

Tried to stay out of this, but hell. You took a swipe at GF, called him a hypocrite, and now refuse to back it up. If you have something to say, then say it. Tell you what, if you continue with this, you don't have to worry about him banning you, cause I'd have already done it. Say what you meant, or better yet discuss it privately with h8m, just quit clogging up the board with this garbage.

I spend a lot of time defending Mike when he's unfairly attacked (same with Brian, or anybody ) and crap like this is why it's so damn difficult. I'm supposed to be working right now yet I'm putting my job on the line dealing with this childish fuckery. Gloves are about to come off.

Billy, I feel terrible about this. I mean, for you to have to risk your job to come on the board to keep me from clogging the board with my crap and garbage, well, frankly I'm embarrassed. You know, Billy, I have this problem. It seems that I'm always posting something that upsets people on this board. But, I'll change; I know that I have the ability to change. And, just to show you that I'm on the right track, I'd like to apologize to anybody I offended with anything I posted, including guitarfool2012. But, Billy, there's still a few "loose ends" that I have to clear up before I can truly reach my goal on this message board. And, Billy, you're the perfect person to help me. I just have a few questions that I need answers for, if you don't mind.

Question 1: If a poster expresses their opinion about Brian Wilson, say a Brian Wilson solo album or a Brian Wilson TV performance for example, and an Honored Guest or a Moderator responds to that post by calling it "utter bullshit" or "total bullshit" or just plain old "bullshit", does the original poster have the right to then, in turn, refer to the Honored Guest or Moderator's post by calling IT "utter bullshit" or "total bullshit" or just plain old "bullshit"?

Question 2: Scott Totten recently posted, "Mike gets slandered and trashed on a regular basis and many of you think that is equal to wondering whether Brian played piano. I don't find these two examples to be of equal value. I really feel that some of you are bullies." Billy, when I read that I thought, "Uh oh, there's going to be some outrage now. Somebody is accusing board members of not only unwarranted Mike Love bashing, but also bullying. The moderators aren't going to like that." However, there was no outrage, barely a ripple. I then thought, "Gee, the moderators must agree with Scott.

Well, earlier in this thread I read this post, "Mike is a sad and insecure man", and "Mike is a wretched human being to his so called songwriting partner, Brian Wilson", and finally I read, "I don't think anyone can argue that Mike is the most tactless BB member, relatively speaking, nobody even comes close." Well, Billy, again I thought, "Now there will be outrage because the moderators must've agreed with Scott and will respond to this Mike bashing." So, I kept checking the board and checking the board, but I never saw a single moderator respond to those posts. No calling them "total bullshit", no asking them to apologize to Mike, not even a "Gloves are about to come off." Now I'm confused.

Thread after thread, post after post, things like Mike Love's vocals and Mike Love's lyrics and Mike Love's solo songs are criticized. Over and over. And I get that; this is a music message board. But, sadly, every other possible area of Mike's career, character - and life - is also criticized. I've read posts criticizing Mike's spiritual pursuits, Mike's personal conduct on the road, and I've even seen comments directed about the legitimacy of his children. And, those comments were allowed. I ask you, Billy, would those same comments be permitted if they were directed at Brian Wilson? I ask an even more specific question. If somebody merely substituted the name Brian Wilson in place of Mike Love, would the same comment be allowed? For example, Brian Wilson is a wretched human being. Brain Wilson is the most tactless BB member and nobody comes close. I don't think they would permitted. Wow, I almost slipped and used the "h" word. But, see, I'm already getting better and caught myself.

Just one more thing, Billy, and I'm sorry to bother you, but, well, it's about my wife. Oh, don't misunderstand, she's a wonderful woman. She volunteers at church, works at charities; she's a beautiful person. But, see, Billy, when I'm reading or posting on the message board, she thinks I'm discussing good vibrations, going to the beach, and fun, fun, fun. Sometimes she's lurking, you know, when she's cleaning, and she'll occasionally take a peek at the computer monitor, and, well, Billy, if she saw where you described my posts as "childish fuckery", she'd get very upset. She's very sensitive. So, Billy, the next time you insult me or use derogatory terms to describe my posts, could you not use the term "child fuckery"? 

Billy, thank you for everything you do for this message board. I realize it's a long, hard, thankless job. Love and mercy... 

If I could summarise the point I would like to make about the whole Brian and Mike "thing" and reflect on your post it would be this.

What you carry inside is projected to others and that will be reflected by others unto you.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Tried to stay out of this, but hell. You took a swipe at GF, called him a hypocrite, and now refuse to back it up. If you have something to say, then say it. Tell you what, if you continue with this, you don't have to worry about him banning you, cause I'd have already done it. Say what you meant, or better yet discuss it privately with h8m, just quit clogging up the board with this garbage.

I spend a lot of time defending Mike when he's unfairly attacked (same with Brian, or anybody ) and crap like this is why it's so damn difficult. I'm supposed to be working right now yet I'm putting my job on the line dealing with this childish fuckery. Gloves are about to come off.

Billy, I feel terrible about this. I mean, for you to have to risk your job to come on the board to keep me from clogging the board with my crap and garbage, well, frankly I'm embarrassed. You know, Billy, I have this problem. It seems that I'm always posting something that upsets people on this board. But, I'll change; I know that I have the ability to change. And, just to show you that I'm on the right track, I'd like to apologize to anybody I offended with anything I posted, including guitarfool2012. But, Billy, there's still a few "loose ends" that I have to clear up before I can truly reach my goal on this message board. And, Billy, you're the perfect person to help me. I just have a few questions that I need answers for, if you don't mind.

Question 1: If a poster expresses their opinion about Brian Wilson, say a Brian Wilson solo album or a Brian Wilson TV performance for example, and an Honored Guest or a Moderator responds to that post by calling it "utter bullshit" or "total bullshit" or just plain old "bullshit", does the original poster have the right to then, in turn, refer to the Honored Guest or Moderator's post by calling IT "utter bullshit" or "total bullshit" or just plain old "bullshit"?

Question 2: Scott Totten recently posted, "Mike gets slandered and trashed on a regular basis and many of you think that is equal to wondering whether Brian played piano. I don't find these two examples to be of equal value. I really feel that some of you are bullies." Billy, when I read that I thought, "Uh oh, there's going to be some outrage now. Somebody is accusing board members of not only unwarranted Mike Love bashing, but also bullying. The moderators aren't going to like that." However, there was no outrage, barely a ripple. I then thought, "Gee, the moderators must agree with Scott.

Well, earlier in this thread I read this post, "Mike is a sad and insecure man", and "Mike is a wretched human being to his so called songwriting partner, Brian Wilson", and finally I read, "I don't think anyone can argue that Mike is the most tactless BB member, relatively speaking, nobody even comes close." Well, Billy, again I thought, "Now there will be outrage because the moderators must've agreed with Scott and will respond to this Mike bashing." So, I kept checking the board and checking the board, but I never saw a single moderator respond to those posts. No calling them "total bullshit", no asking them to apologize to Mike, not even a "Gloves are about to come off." Now I'm confused.

Thread after thread, post after post, things like Mike Love's vocals and Mike Love's lyrics and Mike Love's solo songs are criticized. Over and over. And I get that; this is a music message board. But, sadly, every other possible area of Mike's career, character - and life - is also criticized. I've read posts criticizing Mike's spiritual pursuits, Mike's personal conduct on the road, and I've even seen comments directed about the legitimacy of his children. And, those comments were allowed. I ask you, Billy, would those same comments be permitted if they were directed at Brian Wilson? I ask an even more specific question. If somebody merely substituted the name Brian Wilson in place of Mike Love, would the same comment be allowed? For example, Brian Wilson is a wretched human being. Brain Wilson is the most tactless BB member and nobody comes close. I don't think they would permitted. Wow, I almost slipped and used the "h" word. But, see, I'm already getting better and caught myself.

Just one more thing, Billy, and I'm sorry to bother you, but, well, it's about my wife. Oh, don't misunderstand, she's a wonderful woman. She volunteers at church, works at charities; she's a beautiful person. But, see, Billy, when I'm reading or posting on the message board, she thinks I'm discussing good vibrations, going to the beach, and fun, fun, fun. Sometimes she's lurking, you know, when she's cleaning, and she'll occasionally take a peek at the computer monitor, and, well, Billy, if she saw where you described my posts as "childish fuckery", she'd get very upset. She's very sensitive. So, Billy, the next time you insult me or use derogatory terms to describe my posts, could you not use the term "child fuckery"? 

Billy, thank you for everything you do for this message board. I realize it's a long, hard, thankless job. Love and mercy... 

Not sure if most of this is sarcastic or not, but on the assumption that it's not...

You know (or should know ) that there I handle Brian and Mike posts the same here. Some of the most anti Mike posters have had 'discussions' with me, privately and otherwise. Obviously,  you already know the converse is true.  So for you to sit here and post this, well, if I didn't have the sneaking suspicion that you're trying to antagonize me, well, I'd find incredibly offensive. I don't play favorites here, and for to even insinuate that is incredibly out of line.

But, thing is, I realize this is partly my fault. I've been too nice, and tried too hard to avoid choosing sides. I figured 'well we're all adults here' and tried to let you guys sort things out for myselves. Obviously that hasn't worked. So if I have to be that 'my way or the highway guy' then so be it. So to answer your questions. ..yes it would've been the same regardless of it were Mike , Brian, Al, Huey, Dewey, Louie, anybody. I've suspended/banned friends foes and strangers if the situation called for it.

And for the record, I wasn't referring to only you with the childish fuckery comment,  but rather this entire thread. Cause it is, really. Just an excuse for people to take potshots at each other.

If this answer is not agreeable to anyone, there are  other forums on the web. Or better yet, there's this thing outside,  kinda hot orange and rather big. That lucky old thing is called 'the sun'. Suggest going outside and staring at it for a few hours. that'll stop the problem of seeing offensive posts any longer.

[SMiLE Brian]

Well said Billy!

[drbeachboy]

Just my two cents on the subject. Personal attacks on band members should not be allowed. It is one thing to critique performances or disagree with band decisions made by the band members, but personal stuff and slander is way over the line and goes on here with precision like flair. It adds nothing and only creates animosity amongst the forum members. I just hate seeing so many interesting threads devolve into name calling and fighting. You would think that grown people could police themselves or at least show consideration to each other. We are in this together.