Beach Boy drug use...?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Bruce has always struck me as someone who would do anything for a paycheck. He probably looked at that song in the same light. Also, remember, this was *very* early on; I think seeing what Brian was going through scared him from even trying a joint for his whole life.

Hmmm, and if this were the case, I suppose Bruce's claim that the only BB album he's not on after he joined the band was MIU would still stand because he would've contributed vocals to Heroes and Villains and Good Vibes and...

Only MIU? You mean he's on Holland?! Which song?

[Aegir]

Have you heard the 45 version? Its obviously psych. If the A-side isn't evidence enough for you, listen to the fried out bongo/sitar instrumental that's on the B-side. Not LSD while singing, but its obvious that they've all used at least pot and probably lsd.

Soooo... because Bruce sings on a kinda psychadoozy song - once -  he's a raving acid head ?

That's the most fodaing stupid piece of logic I've ever heard, and that includes anything ever posted on the Bloo.

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't even think the song sounds that psychedelic. I first heard it years ago on a "60s Pop Hits" compilation CD, and I was listening, the only things that went through my mind were, "This is a pretty good pop song, nice singing, I like that part about winter and brown leaves," not "Man, this is so crazy, the singers were obviously on drugs!" Standard mid/late 60s pop.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Bruce has always struck me as someone who would do anything for a paycheck. He probably looked at that song in the same light. Also, remember, this was *very* early on; I think seeing what Brian was going through scared him from even trying a joint for his whole life.

Hmmm, and if this were the case, I suppose Bruce's claim that the only BB album he's not on after he joined the band was MIU would still stand because he would've contributed vocals to Heroes and Villains and Good Vibes and...

Only MIU? You mean he's on Holland?! Which song?

Think he's mentioned several times they snuck him in the back door to add bvs to "California".

[Smilin Ed H]

Isn't he on Sail on Sailor too?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Can't remember... possibly. I'll ask.

[No. Fourteen]

I don't mean to say Bruce did LSD for sure but it is interesting how early that song is. I also do think it could be him on Wind Chimes but the voice who sings that is so twisted it could have been any of them except Dennis.

I think it is Dennis.  The "close your eyes and lean back" does sound very strange (probably because it's whispered), but "listen to wind chiiiiimes" sounds like him.

I realize, by the way, that most of the lines in it are split between two group members. 

[roll plymouth rock]

Well, how come one of  his first songs (an instrumental, albeit) was called LSD-25? I don't think he'd name a song that for fun or by co-incidence.

[roll plymouth rock]

You can't tell if somebody has used drugs by listening to them sing.  Come on.

You haven't heard Smiley Smile? 

Just joking, I get it. 

[Jeff Mason]

Well, how come one of  his first songs (an instrumental, albeit) was called LSD-25? I don't think he'd name a song that for fun or by co-incidence.

Why do you think he did more than just play piano on it?  The website I linked to didn't offer compositional credits for him, which means he probably didn't write it.  Or are you assuming that he had to drop acid to play piano for someone else's music.

[Jon Stebbins]

Al told me he tried weed once or twice and it made him sleepy...he didn't like it. Mike smoked pot  some in '67/'68. Dennis may have been straight in '64/65 but he'd already smoked pot in'61/62 and he took reds in '62/63 as well...story about this in the Dave Marks book. Bruce was straight but liked to drink a bit. Dennis, Brian and Carl did everything and did it often...Carl got straight in 78.

[MBE]

Dennis may have been straight in '64/65 but he'd already smoked pot in'61/62

Jon do you have any first hand accounts of Dennis using pot before '66? Not questioning your obviously indepth reasearch, but the only place I read that was in the Tim White book. I have discounted it up till now because I have a late 1976 Pete Fornatele (I think) interview with Dennis where he asks him about his own drug use in the early days and Dennis says he was too busy chasing girls to do drugs. That combined with Carole's assertion to Steve Gaines made me think he was straight until around Pet Sounds. What do you think?

[roll plymouth rock]

Well, how come one of  his first songs (an instrumental, albeit) was called LSD-25? I don't think he'd name a song that for fun or by co-incidence.

Why do you think he did more than just play piano on it?  The website I linked to didn't offer compositional credits for him, which means he probably didn't write it.  Or are you assuming that he had to drop acid to play piano for someone else's music.

I'm just saying that he was involved in that type of counter-culture movement of the time and therefore, there is a good chance he used it or was exposed to the drug in one form or another. If you disagree with me, that is fine. But I do not believe that either possibility (that he did or did not use) can be completely discredited by any of us. I'm simply offering some examples that could be used to support the case of drug use on Bruce's behalf.

[Jon Stebbins]

Dennis may have been straight in '64/65 but he'd already smoked pot in'61/62

Jon do you have any first hand accounts of Dennis using pot before '66? Not questioning your obviously indepth reasearch, but the only place I read that was in the Tim White book. I have discounted it up till now because I have a late 1976 Pete Fornatele (I think) interview with Dennis where he asks him about his own drug use in the early days and Dennis says he was too busy chasing girls to do drugs. That combined with Carole's assertion to Steve Gaines made me think he was straight until around Pet Sounds. What do you think?

More than one source has told me Dennis smoked "reefer" with his surfing buddies long before '66...probably '61 or '62...and its well established he had a little problem with some downers in '62/63...story is David's book details the incident, and basically it comes down to him hanging out with a "bad girl", not so much about experimentation or looking for a high. It does seems likely that he was straight as an arrow during the first couple of years he was with Carole 64/65...I believe he was. He shunned the initial '60's drug "scene"...but that avoidance was all over by '67.

[roll plymouth rock]

Dennis may have been straight in '64/65 but he'd already smoked pot in'61/62

Jon do you have any first hand accounts of Dennis using pot before '66? Not questioning your obviously indepth reasearch, but the only place I read that was in the Tim White book. I have discounted it up till now because I have a late 1976 Pete Fornatele (I think) interview with Dennis where he asks him about his own drug use in the early days and Dennis says he was too busy chasing girls to do drugs. That combined with Carole's assertion to Steve Gaines made me think he was straight until around Pet Sounds. What do you think?

More than one source has told me Dennis smoked "reefer" with his surfing buddies long before '66...probably '61 or '62...and its well established he had a little problem with some downers in '62/63...story is David's book details the incident, and basically it comes down to him hanging out with a "bad girl", not so much about experimentation or looking for a high. It does seems likely that he was straight as an arrow during the first couple of years he was with Carole 64/65...I believe he was. He shunned the initial '60's drug "scene"...but that avoidance was all over by '67.

Hey Jon, not that this has much to do with this topic, but I really enjoyed your book on Dennis when I read it last year. And since I saw you posting on the same post as me, I thought I'd acknowledge the fact that your book really helped me understand and appreciate Dennis' life as well as his music on a deeper level. So basically, good work. 

[Jon Stebbins]

Thanks L&M...Dennis was an awesome subject.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm simply offering some examples that could be used to support the case of drug use on Bruce's behalf.

No, actually you're stating as a fact that, because the record sound psychedelic, they had to be doing psychedelic drugs when they recorded it. Allow me to refresh your memory (emphasis mine):

"I don't think Bruce is so innocent. You all know that his voice was on the sunshine psych-pop classic 45 "My World Fell Down" by Sagittarius (Usher/Boettcher). If you've heard that song, you'd know they are stoned on at least pot and probably LSD too.... Have you heard the 45 version? Its obviously psych. If the A-side isn't evidence enough for you, listen to the fried out bongo/sitar instrumental that's on the B-side. Not LSD while singing, but its obvious that they've all used at least pot and probably lsd."

You any kin to Domenic Priore ? 

[Jeff Mason]

Or saying that since Bruce played piano on a track written by someone else who was into LSD that Bruce must have done it too. 

By that logic, everyone in the Wrecking Crew who played on Good Vibrations was an acid head, and so were all of the Beach Boys.  It doesn't work.

[MBE]

Jon thanks for the great info again. You and Andrew both wrote superb books. (And I'm not just saying that for perhaps a free original Smile booklet) 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'm simply offering some examples that could be used to support the case of drug use on Bruce's behalf.

No, actually you're stating as a fact that, because the record sound psychedelic, they had to be doing psychedelic drugs when they recorded it. Allow me to refresh your memory (emphasis mine):

"I don't think Bruce is so innocent. You all know that his voice was on the sunshine psych-pop classic 45 "My World Fell Down" by Sagittarius (Usher/Boettcher). If you've heard that song, you'd know they are stoned on at least pot and probably LSD too.... Have you heard the 45 version? Its obviously psych. If the A-side isn't evidence enough for you, listen to the fried out bongo/sitar instrumental that's on the B-side. Not LSD while singing, but its obvious that they've all used at least pot and probably lsd."

You any kin to Domenic Priore ? 

Pwned.

Although, at least everything is spelled correctly, unlike Priore...

All kidding aside, thanks Jon for clearing things up. I'm glad I started the original topic, because some old misconceptions are being cleared up, and can stop this question from ever being asked again except by someone totally new to the world of the Beach Boys.

I can respect Alan's feelings on the matter. He tried it, didn't like how it made him feel. It just wasn't his thing. At least his feelings on it were based in his own experience. Like I said, I respect that.

Mike, obviously DID like it for some time. I wonder what the impetus was for him to quit? He certainly LOOKED the part at times in the early 70s...

[Andrew G. Doe]

some old misconceptions are being cleared up, and can stop this question from ever being asked again except by someone totally new to the world of the Beach Boys.

Ah, Charles, if only t'were thus...  On A. N. Other forum, I've just finished outlining to people who I wouldn't consider newbies at all, why a stereo mix of "GV" is currently (and most like permanently) impossible. For something like the 10th time in the last few years.

[sigh]

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

some old misconceptions are being cleared up, and can stop this question from ever being asked again except by someone totally new to the world of the Beach Boys.

Ah, Charles, if only t'were thus...  On A. N. Other forum, I've just finished outlining to people who I wouldn't consider newbies at all, why a stereo mix of "GV" is currently (and most like permanently) impossible. For something like the 10th time in the last few years.

[sigh]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Nah...this is Billy, not Charles. My username changing every couple of days in kind of me joking around in a friendly manner with Charles. My current username is actually the name of a song my group's working on. There's a part where my wife says into the mic " Welcome everyone to Master Raymond's Bait shop! We all have sorts of lures...live ones...dead ones...shrimps...worms...you name it! Stop on by! Tell all your friends, cause Raymond is the master baiter!" The rest of the song sounds like carnival music.

 

[MBE]

Mike quit because of TM. Maharishi had The Beatles stop too. (maybe that's why they left ). All kiding aside I think being by The Wilsons and seeing them slowly go down probably chinched his decision.

[Aegir]

Here's some more information on LSD-25: It was written by Derry Weaver, and was the B-side of his hit song "Moon Dawg". Bruce played keyboards on it as part of an assembled studio band, the Gamblers.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Derry Weaver as in...Nik Venet?!

[Aegir]

Yep, I think Bruce played on Moon Dawg, too.

http://www.beefheart.com/datharp/albums/mbmembers/ingber.htm ; scroll down a little