Beach Boy drug use...?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

My wife & I were discussing Brian's past today; actually, we were talking about someone we know who is going through some "problems", and anyway somehow the subject of Brian came up. Got me to thinking.  I'm sure Peter's new book will answer most of these questions, but just in case...

1. Brian started smoking weed in 1964, and dropped acid in 1965, right? When did he progress to the harder stuff? I read somewhere that Danny Hutton is the one who gave him coke, but I don't really know when.

2. Besides weed, coke, acid, speed, and coke, what else did he use, and when? I know that right there is enough, but still...

3. Was Bruce the only BB who remained clean, or did he too get on the wagon, even for a little bit?

4. It's now known that Carl had his own issues in the mid-to-late 70s. Did this happen before or after his divorce from Annie?

5. When exactly did Brian relapse? Was it before or after Love You?

6. When did Brian *stop* for good? I know Landy got him again in 1982, but Landy too was a coke user. The way the Wilson Project book makes it seem, Brian was still going through some sort of withdrawls as late as 1986...at least, that's what Gary Usher makes it sound like. I'm sure it was something that Landy gave him.



edit

I said "coke" twice on number 2. D'Oh. I meant "alcohol".

[Andrew G. Doe]

This is one area of BB research I don't like, but it cannot be ignored.

1. I'm thinking the coke started in the early 70s, but for no real reason.

2. Brian was certainly doing heroin as well (not injecting) by the mid-70s

3. I've never heard of anyone so much as even hinting that Bruce has ever done any drugs at all.

4. Carl's 70s smack habit was a direct concequence of his collapsing marriage - began in about 1975, peaked in 1978. As we've all seen and heard. 

5. Pretty much when two thing shappened almost simultaneously - Landy got fired and his replacement was killed in a rock climbing accident. the change in Brian from April 1977 to fall that year is alarming. He got big again real quick.

6. This a a gross oversimplification, but Landy essentially kept Brian under control with Thorazine, topping him up with uppers when a public appearence was required. I think this stopped after the practise was brought to light when Brian was scheduled for a facelift and the surgeon nearly had a fit when he saw the pre-op blood tests.

I'm sure others can correct and expand on the preceding

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

See, my understanding had been that Brian started right around Wild Honey, but that probably is wrong.

The shrink that died...wasn't his name Steve something? Switzer, Shwartz, something like that.

So Carl started in 75? I wonder if that had anything to do with how 15 BO turned out, and indeed the rest of their career. By the time he had cleaned up, Mike already had control of the band...

[Smilin Ed H]

"1. I'm thinking the coke started in the early 70s, but for no real reason.

2. Brian was certainly doing heroin as well (not injecting) by the mid-70s"

There was a suggestion by Peter Ames Carlin on this board somewhere that Murry's death triggered off Brian's decline - and Dennis' too.  Suppose this might account for the coke and heroin.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Thanks - Steve Schwartz it was. No relation to Loren, thankfully. For some reason I was thinking Sol Samuels.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Who is Sol Samuels? Name sounds familiar...

There was a suggestion by Peter Ames Carlin on this board somewhere that Murry's death triggered off Brian's decline - and Dennis' too.  Suppose this might account for the coke and heroin.

Yeah, I think the same thing about Brian. I think what compounded Dennis's problem in addition to his father's death  was the hand injury.

[Rocker]

I always had a feeling that Dennis had his first touches with "hard" drugs thorugh Manson. But that doesn't mean he did it regularly of course....

[XY]

I read somewhere that Danny Hutton is the one who gave him coke, but I don't really know when.

Whisky a Go Go; November 16, 1968 to be exact

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I could slap him for that. I wonder if he ever feels any guilt...

I always had a feeling that Dennis had his first touches with "hard" drugs thorugh Manson. But that doesn't mean he did it regularly of course....

Maybe not at first, but he sure got on that train real quick...

[MBE]

Here is my opinion based on what I have read
Bruce probably never did anything but perhaps trying weed once or twice if that. Same goes for Al.

Mike, Carl and Dennis started weed about late 65 Dennis a little later then Carl, Brian or Mike because his first wife explained that being straight was a way he could get on Murry's good side. I don't buy the stories that Dennis did it as a teen because I have an interview where he denies taking drugs by 64. Mike Carl and Dennis were doing LSD by 66 but I think Mike stopped drugs in the fall of 68.Perhaps doing a little weed in the early 70s.

Here is where it gets sticky. We know Brian did weed by 12-64. We know he did LSD by 4-65. Speed probably was done by them all on the road but Brian really go into it by the time of Smile. The 1968 coke day is from Brian's dubious book. That seems that it could be right, but I don't see his songwriting begin to seriously dry up until 71-2. I didn't read of any post Smile drug incidents until some stories about need help getting dressed at a session for Holland. So I think 72 would be when Brian became an addict. By 74 heroin was on the scene. I think Brian was fairly straight in 76, but I think he started back on Coke by 1-77 because there is a concert I have from then (not the Aussie one) where all the Wilson’s seem strung out (w Dennis the best actually). We know 78-62 may be his worst drug period. I read in Rolling Stone in 1988 that Brian had an occasional joint. I think he was fairly straight after 82 though. One other exception is Brian at Ringo's 1998 birthday party. He is drunk or stoned to the point he can't sing.

Carl probably got straight after 78. I have heard rumors of smack but I was under the assumption (because of the Gaines book) that it was coke not smack. He and Dennis both tried coke or H around the Manson era, but it didn't seem to be a habit at that time. By 72-3 I am sure there was coke around but it does not seem to have really hurt them until the end of 76. Dennis was drink and drug free for a short period around 75, but then got much worse.  Dennis most likely was on heroin after trying it again 12-31-77 and if Andrew has a good source I guess Carl went on it too. We know how Dennis' story ends.

[petsite]

The Beach Boys drug use was not limited to Brian or Dennis.

Carl used heroin during the late '70s (around  '77-78) and really had an on and off probelm with alcohol for most of his life after that. Carl was a heavy drinker in his later years. He also was a heavy, heavy smoker until the late '80s - early '90s.

Brian of course used everything. He smoked pot, dropped acid, cranked himself up on speed and brought himself down with seconal during the making of PS/SMiLE.  Danny Hutton introduced him to coke in 1968 and Brian also started drinking heavly around this time (as booze tends to take the "edge" off).  Brian started to use heroin in late '73, stopped in 1975 (due to Landy) and then started to use again in late '77 til early 1983 when he again entered Landy's program.  During all of these times he continued using other drugs as well.  Coke seemed to be his drug of chioce along with alcohol .  Food was also a drug to Brian as well.

Al seemed to side-step the drug problems as did Bruce.  Mike (as he himself as said) smoked pot (by some accounts, alot of it) during the late '60s early '70s. Mike is even caught on camera taking a drag during an instrumental break of a song on the uncut Live From Central Park concert from 1972 (see Endless Harmony's Heroes And Villains live to see which concert this is).

Dennis used everything including the carpet fibers from the floor. He never seemed to have had a chance in his life.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Al smoked weed, too. There is a passage in Jon Stebbins' book on Dennis about this.

I read in Rolling Stone in 1988 that Brian had an occasional joint.

WHAT?! What was the exact quote, if you can?

[endofposts]

I don't have the quote, but I recall reading an interview around that period that Brian was allowed to have some pot and a glass of wine once in awhile.  He wrote "Love and Mercy" while slightly buzzed on wine.  When he performed "Smile" in San Francisco a couple of years ago, he had a glass of beer around his keyboard, so he still drinks a little bit.  He drank very little of the beer, though.  He's a grown up.  He's allowed.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I wonder if he still smokes weed. I doubt it though;don't think Melinda would allow that.

I know he still drinks beer; there was an interview last year where he mentioned something about enjoying a tall glass of beer and some grilled salmon, or something like that.

My kinda guy...

[MBE]

Basically the quote was "except for the occaisinal toke of pot Brian is clean"

[Pretty Funky]

Remember the RS article well. Pictures of Landy and Brian in deck chairs by a pool. The interviewer was surprised about Brians admission of still doing weed and wondered if Landy knew.

[Emdeeh]

Carl was a heavy drinker in his later years. He also was a heavy, heavy smoker until the late '80s - early '90s.

You're wrong on when Carl quit smoking -- by the time I met him in 1984, he wasn't smoking. So it was sometime between 1982 and 1984 when he quit. I'm highly allergic to smoke and that's why I noticed.

As for Carl's drinking, I only witnessed him sipping a little champaigne one afternoon, so I can't speak for that. I've heard people say he could tie one on at late-night parties -- and then there's the confessional line from his song "Time," "I quit smoking, but I drink too much. Don't try to analyze me."

Carl probably got straight after 78.

Carl definitely got straight after ‘78. You can see the change in him physically -- he loses weight, his eyes are more focused and alert. He's a stronger performer, too.

Bruce says that he and Al didn't do any drugs, and I am inclined to believe him.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

There's video tape evidence of Al and Dennis getting stoned together. Ask Jon S about it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

and then there's the confessional line from his song "Time," "I quit smoking, but I drink too much. Don't try to analyze me."

He told Myrna to write that ? 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yeah, the writing credits say "Waite/Gladstone", according to a certain scholar...

[MBE]

Jon Stebins' book says they look stoned there is no evidence of them doing it on film. Its just their goofy clothes shop scene. I don't think they were myself but who knows or cares. I think the article indicated Landy "let" Brian do pot once in a blue moon. Too much of the crap about Audree, Carl, and even Dennis comes from the Landy-Todd Gold book. A very suspect source to say the least. I know its also the only place the claims Diane and Brian were having a full blown affair. Something the Gaines book denies.  Those stories will only die if Brian (and he should morally feel obligated) writes a new book discrediting the first one.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I know its also the only place the claims Diane and Brian were having a full blown affair. Something the Gaines book denies.

Well, some 23 years ago, I had the chance to right to the source - asked Diane about it, and she said yes. For good measure, the person sitting beside her nodded. I think Marilyn would know if anyone would.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Yeah, the writing credits say "Waite/Gladstone", according to a certain scholar...

Here's my defence - that's from a song called "Today", not "Time". 

[MBE]

"Well, some 23 years ago, I had the chance to right to the source - asked Diane about it, and she said yes. For good measure, the person sitting beside her nodded. I think Marilyn would know if anyone would."

You are a good source so I trust it, I don't trust Gold though that's why I wasn't convinced.

[Steve Mayo]

does anyone remember the old pet-sounds mailing list posts? about 8-9 years ago or so a person calling themselves "jack rieley" was posting often for a few weeks/months...can't remember for sure exactly how long. had lots of interesting stories to tell. now if this person was really jack he told about a couple of times how back in '71 he and carl would get high on coke, go running around town and swimming. this person went on to say that this drug use  was where the words "white puff" and "black puff" came from when they wrote "feel flows" during this time. made for interesting reading those posts did!!!