Whennn was the last time Mike got to write with Brian alone in a room?

[CenturyDeprived]

The mythic "alone in a room" configuration.   I assume that would mean a lack of outsiders who were not official members of the band,  certainly no co-writing input from non-band–members, although it could also actually mean just Mike and Brian in a room, even without any other official Beach Boys members allowed to be present either. Not sure which would be preferred.

When's the last time that happened? I'm thinking we might have to go all the way back to the KTSA sessions?  Was "Going to the Beach"  Brian and Mike's last hurrah (alone in a room)?  That could explain Mike's fondness for that song. I was initially thinking "Male Ego", but I'm guessing that Landy or some other minders might have been around for those sessions.

[guitarfool2002]

Perhaps this:

Pulse! Magazine, November 1995 Brian/Van Dyke cover story, comments from Don Was:

"Wilson is now writing Beach Boys songs with Mike Love again, and Was says that 'of the 40 new songs we've got, a handful are as good as anything he's written'. Still, the forthcoming album may or may not be the emotional catharsis that Was is hoping for. "When I was talking to Mike and Brian, I told them 'If you go write about surfing it's not going to ring true. But if you can write the truths of your life, the fact that you're family and there's been these deep chasms in your life that require this deep emotional involvement - if you can write about that, it would be incredibly uplifting for people. So they said 'Great', and went off to write a song. Then they came back and said 'We got it! It's called Baywatch Nights!'"


Classic.

And even more salt rubbed into the wounds of us fans at that time, I was genuinely looking forward to hearing this stuff, seeing something from these sessions on Baywatch or even Baywatch Nights, and instead we got the "Summer Of Love" montage music video. Hell, even worse I don't remember seeing either Pam Anderson, Erika Eleniak, or Alexandra Paul playing much of a role in that video!    Blasphemy.

[CenturyDeprived]

Perhaps this:

Pulse! Magazine, November 1995 Brian/Van Dyke cover story, comments from Don Was:

"Wilson is now writing Beach Boys songs with Mike Love again, and Was says that 'of the 40 new songs we've got, a handful are as good as anything he's written'. Still, the forthcoming album may or may not be the emotional catharsis that Was is hoping for. "When I was talking to Mike and Brian, I told them 'If you go write about surfing it's not going to ring true. But if you can write the truths of your life, the fact that you're family and there's been these deep chasms in your life that require this deep emotional involvement - if you can write about that, it would be incredibly uplifting for people. So they said 'Great', and went off to write a song. Then they came back and said 'We got it! It's called Baywatch Nights!'"


Classic.

And even more salt rubbed into the wounds of us fans at that time, I was genuinely looking forward to hearing this stuff, seeing something from these sessions on Baywatch or even Baywatch Nights, and instead we got the "Summer Of Love" montage music video. Hell, even worse I don't remember seeing either Pam Anderson, Erika Eleniak, or Alexandra Paul playing much of a role in that video!    Blasphemy.

Wow.

Ok, let me amend or add an additional avenue to my initial question... whennnnn was the last time Mike got to record with Brian alone in a room on music that actually got released? "Going to the Beach" almost doesn't count, since it took 33 years!

[Lonely Summer]

The mythic "alone in a room" configuration.   I assume that would mean a lack of outsiders who were not official members of the band,  certainly no co-writing input from non-band–members, although it could also actually mean just Mike and Brian in a room, even without any other official Beach Boys members allowed to be present either. Not sure which would be preferred.

When's the last time that happened? I'm thinking we might have to go all the way back to the KTSA sessions?  Was "Going to the Beach"  Brian and Mike's last hurrah (alone in a room)?  That could explain Mike's fondness for that song. I was initially thinking "Male Ego", but I'm guessing that Landy or some other minders might have been around for those sessions.

According to Brian's 'autobio', Mike objected to having Landy around when they were writing lyrics to "Male Ego". There's a pic of them in the book - Mike without a hat. I'm sure Bruce was there, too, to adjust the mike stands and clap.

[the professor]

how were Beaches in Mind, IIT, and Spring Vacation written? The larger point is true: if M and B wrote the best songs on NPP (whatever happened, tell me why, and one kind of Love, it would be a triumph.

[Nicko1234]

The mythic "alone in a room" configuration.   I assume that would mean a lack of outsiders who were not official members of the band,  certainly no co-writing input from non-band–members, although it could also actually mean just Mike and Brian in a room, even without any other official Beach Boys members allowed to be present either. Not sure which would be preferred.

When's the last time that happened? I'm thinking we might have to go all the way back to the KTSA sessions?  Was "Going to the Beach"  Brian and Mike's last hurrah (alone in a room)?  That could explain Mike's fondness for that song. I was initially thinking "Male Ego", but I'm guessing that Landy or some other minders might have been around for those sessions.

Goin to the Beach? You mean alone except for the film crew I presume? 

Isn`t that one credited as written by Mike Love alone anyway.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

 According to Brian's 'autobio', Mike objected to having Landy around when they were writing lyrics to "Male Ego". There's a pic of them in the book - Mike without a hat. I'm sure Bruce was there, too, to adjust the mike stands and clap.
[/quote]

 

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

According to Brian's 'autobio', Mike objected to having Landy around when they were writing lyrics to "Male Ego". There's a pic of them in the book - Mike without a hat. I'm sure Bruce was there, too, to adjust the mike stands and clap.

 
[/quote]

    Then it's confirmed at last. myKe luHv can only write lyrics when he's not wearing a hat.

[Lonely Summer]

According to Brian's 'autobio', Mike objected to having Landy around when they were writing lyrics to "Male Ego". There's a pic of them in the book - Mike without a hat. I'm sure Bruce was there, too, to adjust the mike stands and clap.

 

    Then it's confirmed at last. myKe luHv can only write lyrics when he's not wearing a hat.
[/quote]

[Matt Etherton]

I believe it was in the mid 90's when they last wrote in the same room. As for the TWGMTR co-writes, as I understood it Mike would write his lyrics seperatly-no same room collaboration. I think that is due to Brian's people not wanting/allowing it (managers/collaborators/etc).  Too bad, as Wilson/Love songs are among my favorite in the pop music realm! (Wilson/Thomas/etc just don't do it for me...nor the charts.)

[the professor]

Yeah, that's right all around. . . .thanks

I believe it was in the mid 90's when they last wrote in the same room. As for the TWGMTR co-writes, as I understood it Mike would write his lyrics seperatly-no same room collaboration. I think that is due to Brian's people not wanting/allowing it (managers/collaborators/etc).  Too bad, as Wilson/Love songs are among my favorite in the pop music realm! (Wilson/Thomas/etc just don't do it for me...nor the charts.)

[Lonely Summer]

Brian's people seem to see ML as another Landy - to be avoided at all costs!

[c-man]

I believe it was in the mid 90's when they last wrote in the same room. As for the TWGMTR co-writes, as I understood it Mike would write his lyrics seperatly-no same room collaboration. I think that is due to Brian's people not wanting/allowing it (managers/collaborators/etc).  Too bad, as Wilson/Love songs are among my favorite in the pop music realm! (Wilson/Thomas/etc just don't do it for me...nor the charts.)

From what I've read, Brian and Mike were in the room together for the writing of "Beaches In Mind" and "Isn't It Time" (at least initially, before Mike went to a separate room to finish the lyrics to "Isn't It Time"). The problem is, they weren't ALONE in the room, as Joe was there the entire time.

[Howie Edelson]

I believe it was in the mid 90's when they last wrote in the same room. As for the TWGMTR co-writes, as I understood it Mike would write his lyrics seperatly-no same room collaboration. I think that is due to Brian's people not wanting/allowing it (managers/collaborators/etc).  Too bad, as Wilson/Love songs are among my favorite in the pop music realm! (Wilson/Thomas/etc just don't do it for me...nor the charts.)

Matt, curious where you got the information that while Mike was in L.A. recording for TWGMTR (I'm just going to dispense of that cutsey talk about "managers" 'cause we know who they are and I hate that kind of ball-less shtick) that Melinda Wilson, Jean Sievers, and Joe Thomas did not want/allow Mike Love to contribute to a "same room" collaboration with Brian Wilson. As I've pointed out elsewhere, he spent more time with Brian in 2012 than he did since, probably 1981 -- tons of time on the road where Melinda, Jean, and Joe were NOWHERE to be found -- only everybody's good buddy Jeff (who always has room for Mike) between him and Brian. What happened to finally realizing the dream of writing alone with Brian?

I fear, there's going to be a lot of rewriting of history -- if not smoothing grey areas into being strictly black and white -- coming around the bend, and so a statement like the managers/producers one kinda just lays there -- and I don't believe that was the case.

What if MIKE didn't REALLY want a "one-on-one" collaboration?
What if MIKE didn't ever want to reunite with the co-founders?
What if MIKE was offered a ton of money for a project and couldn't say no to something he just didn't wanna do?

That's of course, if we're gonna be talking "what if's."

[Cam Mott]

Howie do you know if the tour offers that were discussed around the end of C50 (Wrigley and Madison Square Garden are two we heard) were for dates in 2012 or were they for Wrigley's 2013 season and NYE 2013 etc.?

[HeyJude]

Funny thing about “Goin’ to the Beach” is that *if* Brian did help Mike write the song, he didn’t get any songwriting credit on it when it was finally released in 2013 on MIC. It was credited solely to Mike.

[HeyJude]

I believe it was in the mid 90's when they last wrote in the same room. As for the TWGMTR co-writes, as I understood it Mike would write his lyrics seperatly-no same room collaboration. I think that is due to Brian's people not wanting/allowing it (managers/collaborators/etc).  Too bad, as Wilson/Love songs are among my favorite in the pop music realm! (Wilson/Thomas/etc just don't do it for me...nor the charts.)

I don’t think Wilson/Love collaborations have burned up the charts in quite some time either. What’s the last Wilson/Love track that was a hit single? You probably have to go back to the 60’s. Even most of the scattered “minor hits” they had in the 70’s and 80’s were written by others. So if we’re talking about what “does it” for the charts, the evidence is that to the degree *anything* has succeeded in the last few decades, it has done so without Brian and Mike being in a room writing together. “Kokomo”, “Come Go With Me”, “Good Timin’”, “Rock and Roll Music”, all covers or tracks written without a Brian/Mike collaboration. I suppose “It’s OK” is another example, though it wasn’t a huge hit.

Which all isn’t to say I wouldn’t want to hear them write stuff from scratch. I think Brian could write some truly interesting stuff musically with nobody else contributing to the music part of it (and no, this isn’t a dig on Mike in terms of writing music; rather simply a question of hearing Brian’s musical ideas without collaborations on chords or melodies from Bennett or Thomas, etc.). I’m not sure what Mike would come up with lyrically.

My guess, and this is just a guess, conjecture, etc., is that Mike didn’t like the business/power/ego setup for C50, and most of the complaints we’ve heard from him in the last 2-3 years have been after-the-fact pieces of evidence that may not have particularly actually impacted his decision to go back to his own thing. The stuff about not being able to write alone with Brian, not being “consulted” enough on the album, etc., those are things that one could objectively look at and cite as disagreeable elements to participating in the project. But the evidence suggests that at the time, going into the project, he may well have KNOWN that that would be the setup for the album. They got a record deal based on Brian/Joe songs. It was known they were working from a cache of late 90’s Brian/Joe songs. The timeline/time frame for how long they had to finish recording the album was known. Mike later said he thought the band was too big, yet he obviously knew going into it EXACTLY how many people would be in the band. As with many projects of all sorts, what often happens is that everybody sucks it up and does the thing while it’s happening, because they’re contractually obligated to and are making some moolah doing it, and then when they aren’t obligated to it anymore, they will move on to something else and also have the freedom to say in retrospect all of the things they didn’t like about it. Fair enough I suppose, but when everybody else working on the project likes both the money aspect of the project as well as the logistical/power setup of it, then you’re going to be the buzzkill if you move on to something else.

Mike talking about the chart performance of TWGMTR is a perfect example of how the SAME piece of information can be digested and portrayed by the same person in two very different ways. During the 2012 tour, Mike went on about how the album was #1 on Amazon, was #3 on the album charts, etc. After the tour was over, all of a sudden the story is that it didn’t last long on the charts, and he wasn’t allowed enough input on the album. This, from the guy who did “Summer in Paradise” with zero Brian involvement and produced an album that didn’t chart at all in the Top 200. 

[Cam Mott]

On the other hand, Mike has also said he was told things would be one way and then they weren't.

[filledeplage]

I believe it was in the mid 90's when they last wrote in the same room. As for the TWGMTR co-writes, as I understood it Mike would write his lyrics seperatly-no same room collaboration. I think that is due to Brian's people not wanting/allowing it (managers/collaborators/etc).  Too bad, as Wilson/Love songs are among my favorite in the pop music realm! (Wilson/Thomas/etc just don't do it for me...nor the charts.)

I don’t think Wilson/Love collaborations have burned up the charts in quite some time either. What’s the last Wilson/Love track that was a hit single? You probably have to go back to the 60’s. Even most of the scattered “minor hits” they had in the 70’s and 80’s were written by others. So if we’re talking about what “does it” for the charts, the evidence is that to the degree *anything* has succeeded in the last few decades, it has done so without Brian and Mike being in a room writing together. “Kokomo”, “Come Go With Me”, “Good Timin’”, “Rock and Roll Music”, all covers or tracks written without a Brian/Mike collaboration. I suppose “It’s OK” is another example, though it wasn’t a huge hit.

Which all isn’t to say I wouldn’t want to hear them write stuff from scratch. I think Brian could write some truly interesting stuff musically with nobody else contributing to the music part of it (and no, this isn’t a dig on Mike in terms of writing music; rather simply a question of hearing Brian’s musical ideas without collaborations on chords or melodies from Bennett or Thomas, etc.). I’m not sure what Mike would come up with lyrically.

My guess, and this is just a guess, conjecture, etc., is that Mike didn’t like the business/power/ego setup for C50, and most of the complaints we’ve heard from him in the last 2-3 years have been after-the-fact pieces of evidence that may not have particularly actually impacted his decision to go back to his own thing. The stuff about not being able to write alone with Brian, not being “consulted” enough on the album, etc., those are things that one could objectively look at and cite as disagreeable elements to participating in the project. But the evidence suggests that at the time, going into the project, he may well have KNOWN that that would be the setup for the album. They got a record deal based on Brian/Joe songs. It was known they were working from a cache of late 90’s Brian/Joe songs. The timeline/time frame for how long they had to finish recording the album was known. Mike later said he thought the band was too big, yet he obviously knew going into it EXACTLY how many people would be in the band. As with many projects of all sorts, what often happens is that everybody sucks it up and does the thing while it’s happening, because they’re contractually obligated to and are making some moolah doing it, and then when they aren’t obligated to it anymore, they will move on to something else and also have the freedom to say in retrospect all of the things they didn’t like about it. Fair enough I suppose, but when everybody else working on the project likes both the money aspect of the project as well as the logistical/power setup of it, then you’re going to be the buzzkill if you move on to something else.

Mike talking about the chart performance of TWGMTR is a perfect example of how the SAME piece of information can be digested and portrayed by the same person in two very different ways. During the 2012 tour, Mike went on about how the album was #1 on Amazon, was #3 on the album charts, etc. After the tour was over, all of a sudden the story is that it didn’t last long on the charts, and he wasn’t allowed enough input on the album. This, from the guy who did “Summer in Paradise” with zero Brian involvement and produced an album that didn’t chart at all in the Top 200.  

Hey Jude - I'm thinking you need a wiki basic fact check...while I appreciate your zeal for the music, the list is long for the Brian - Mike "successful songsmithing."

Do It Again
Good Vibrations
Let him Run Wild
Little St. Nick ( resurrected EVERY holiday season for 50 years!)
The Man with all the Toys
Meant for You
The Warmth of the Sun
Add some Music
California Girls
Darlin'
I Get Around
I Know there's an Answer
I'm Waiting for the Day
Kiss Me, Baby
Please Let Me Wonder
Wouldn't it Be Nice (still used in many movies!)

That is just a little starter...

Anytime I see "ego" or "contractual obligations" my radar goes right up. It is speculative. And you can dislike any band member, living or dead, and it is clearly your right, but in my estimation, once the "value judgment" card rears it's head, the post loses cred.  

You wanna talk about a contract?  Then, post the contract.  It is ridiculous to speculate if you have no direct knowledge. That stuff is generally closely guarded and rightfully so.

[Mike's Beard]

I think you need to read HeyJude's post again, this time a little more closely.

[KDS]

There's no doubt that there's a long list of great Love/B. Wilson songs, but when was the last time that one was a legit hit?  Probably "Do It Again."  

[HeyJude]

I believe it was in the mid 90's when they last wrote in the same room. As for the TWGMTR co-writes, as I understood it Mike would write his lyrics seperatly-no same room collaboration. I think that is due to Brian's people not wanting/allowing it (managers/collaborators/etc).  Too bad, as Wilson/Love songs are among my favorite in the pop music realm! (Wilson/Thomas/etc just don't do it for me...nor the charts.)

I don’t think Wilson/Love collaborations have burned up the charts in quite some time either. What’s the last Wilson/Love track that was a hit single? You probably have to go back to the 60’s. Even most of the scattered “minor hits” they had in the 70’s and 80’s were written by others. So if we’re talking about what “does it” for the charts, the evidence is that to the degree *anything* has succeeded in the last few decades, it has done so without Brian and Mike being in a room writing together. “Kokomo”, “Come Go With Me”, “Good Timin’”, “Rock and Roll Music”, all covers or tracks written without a Brian/Mike collaboration. I suppose “It’s OK” is another example, though it wasn’t a huge hit.

Which all isn’t to say I wouldn’t want to hear them write stuff from scratch. I think Brian could write some truly interesting stuff musically with nobody else contributing to the music part of it (and no, this isn’t a dig on Mike in terms of writing music; rather simply a question of hearing Brian’s musical ideas without collaborations on chords or melodies from Bennett or Thomas, etc.). I’m not sure what Mike would come up with lyrically.

My guess, and this is just a guess, conjecture, etc., is that Mike didn’t like the business/power/ego setup for C50, and most of the complaints we’ve heard from him in the last 2-3 years have been after-the-fact pieces of evidence that may not have particularly actually impacted his decision to go back to his own thing. The stuff about not being able to write alone with Brian, not being “consulted” enough on the album, etc., those are things that one could objectively look at and cite as disagreeable elements to participating in the project. But the evidence suggests that at the time, going into the project, he may well have KNOWN that that would be the setup for the album. They got a record deal based on Brian/Joe songs. It was known they were working from a cache of late 90’s Brian/Joe songs. The timeline/time frame for how long they had to finish recording the album was known. Mike later said he thought the band was too big, yet he obviously knew going into it EXACTLY how many people would be in the band. As with many projects of all sorts, what often happens is that everybody sucks it up and does the thing while it’s happening, because they’re contractually obligated to and are making some moolah doing it, and then when they aren’t obligated to it anymore, they will move on to something else and also have the freedom to say in retrospect all of the things they didn’t like about it. Fair enough I suppose, but when everybody else working on the project likes both the money aspect of the project as well as the logistical/power setup of it, then you’re going to be the buzzkill if you move on to something else.

Mike talking about the chart performance of TWGMTR is a perfect example of how the SAME piece of information can be digested and portrayed by the same person in two very different ways. During the 2012 tour, Mike went on about how the album was #1 on Amazon, was #3 on the album charts, etc. After the tour was over, all of a sudden the story is that it didn’t last long on the charts, and he wasn’t allowed enough input on the album. This, from the guy who did “Summer in Paradise” with zero Brian involvement and produced an album that didn’t chart at all in the Top 200.  

Hey Jude - I'm thinking you need a wiki basic fact check...while I appreaciate your zeal for the music, the list is long for the Brian - Mike "successful songsmithing."

Do It Again
Good Vibrations
Let him Run Wild
Little St. Nick ( resurrected EVERY holiday season for 50 years!)
The Man with all the Toys
Meant for You
The Warmth of the Sun
Add some Music
California Girls
Darlin'
I Get Around
I Know there's an Answer
I'm Waiting for the Day
Kiss Me, Baby
Please Let Me Wonder
Wouldn't it Be Nice (still used in many movies!)

That is just a little starter...

Anytime I see "ego" or "contractual obligations" my radar goes right up. It is speculative. And you can dislike any band member, living or dead, and it is clearly your right, but in my estimation, once the "value judgment" card rears it's head, the post loses cred.  

You wanna talk about a contract?  Then, post the contract.  It is ridiculous to speculate if you have no direct knowledge. That stuff is generally closely guarded and rightfully so.

I think you need to re-read my post. They had HUGE success (and quality success) in the 60’s. That’s the point I was trying to make by asking when was the last time they had a hit single.  

I’m sorry, but do you really think I’ve been on this board for ten years (and posting on BB forums and groups for TWENTY years) and yet didn’t know Brian and Mike wrote those songs in your list? Wait, Brian and Mike wrote “Good Vibrations”? Are you sure?

Your list backs up the question (and it was/is an open question) I posed, because everything on your list comes from 1968 or earlier. Your list is PRECISELY the point I was trying to make. They had great success in the 60’s, and haven’t so much since then as a hit-making, two-man songwriting team. To the degree that is an indictment on anybody, it is an indictment on both of them. They have also had some degree of alternative successes since then, and usually WITHOUT the other person involved. “Kokomo”, “That Lucky Old Sun”, the 2004 “Smile”, “No Pier Pressure”, and/or with songs not written by either of both of them (the few cover versions that were hits, etc.), and so on.

As to the ego/contractual obligation/contract stuff, it IS all speculation. At the same time, there’s some pretty hard info floating out there as well I’d say. Read Howie’s post again. If you think what *he’s* writing is BS, then nothing else needs to be said, “radar” notwithstanding.

[filledeplage]

I think you need to read HeyJude's post again, this time a little more closely.

Mike's Beard - I read it.  And, despite it's disclaimers, using the terms "conjecture" it is still a smack, whether direct or indirect. And clear it isn't informed by seeing the Touring Band, live in the last year. Pisces Brothers has been amazingly received by every single audience I've seen it performed live, and that is probably twenty audiences.  Mike can write. Brian, clearly can write, as easily as he can breathe.  

It is the old "pick a side" game.  And, many are not playing.

Hey Jude - just go see one Touring Band show. Get the cheapest seat. Then, say "anyone" can't write.

Bringing up Kokomo is a joke. Four people wrote that. But it benefitted every Beach Boy being back on the map. Just sayin' ...

[SMiLE Brian]

Plus the songwriting credits Mike sued for and won in 1994 are sure sketchy since he offered to settle for far less outside of court. Plus waiting for Brian to be in a period of weakness with recovering from Landy and Gary Usher/Roger Christian being deceased.

[Smile4ever]

filledeplage, you're really citing "Wouldn't It Be Nice" as a Wilson/Love collaboration? That was a song Brian wrote with Tony Asher that Mike got a credit on for one line at the end, if that.