Generational SMiLE shift

[nakostopoulos]

Long-time lurker, first time poster and all that jazz.

The teaser trailer for "Love & Mercy" has sent me down a BW vortex of playing "Pet Sounds" multiple times a day, which I vary with the occasional classical piece (nothing says writing an epic romantic novel involving a teenage classical musician and her intended like blasting Bach and "PS" repeatedly  ), and most recently, "SMiLE".

Reading up on "SMiLE" lore has lead me to solidify my position somewhat. I love BWPS.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Boys' original sessions too (I'll spin the original whenever I need the vibes, but don't want to risk being distracted by lyrics), but to me BWPS is a marvel.

Now, it's not perfect, I agree that some VDP's new lyrics ("On a Holiday") are outliers compared to previously composed stuff; but I cannot even begin to imagine a better structure for "SMiLE" than the one which begins with a wordless prayer to God that sounds like Bach dropped a tab of acid--and ends with the greatest pop song ever.

Further background: I'm 25. I remember seeing a copy of "Rolling Stone" with the review of "BWPS" in my eighth grade hippie English teacher's classroom; I didn't really start to investigate BW and the Beach Boys until I was in high school and got copies of "PS" and "Endless Summer"; and it wasn't until the Sessions were announced in 2011 (senior year of college)  that I took the plunge--and thereafter became totally obsessed with BWPS.

So I was intimately familiar with every nook and cranny of BW's completion by the time I spun the sessions for the first time.

Tthe lore looms large (I like alliteration), but I never felt the need to try to compile my own take on "SMiLE"; mostly because I'm not really musically/editorially skilled in that way, but maybe it's also because for as long as I've been conscious of pop music, "SMiLE" has always existed in my mind.

Now, I understand that "SMiLE" as most us wish it to exist (completed by the BBs) cannot exist; and I'll also concede by Brian's own admission, the original probably would have been much darker--and it's not hard to see why, given the original tapes! But I love that BWPS coheres so beautifully.

Yes, many fan-edits have "Surf's Up" occupy the place of honor at the end ("SMiLE's" "A Day in the Life", I think), but the BWPS version makes so much sense--after hearing the coda of "GV" foreshadowed in "Look", why where else could "GV" go, but after the flowing of "Surf's Up"; following the hellscape of "Fire", diving into the water for relief...and coming up on "Good Vibrations"!

Of course, I understand the beauty of the "SMiLE" experience has to do with how individuals respond to it; but I wonder if in the future, younger people, coming to it with no preconceived notions, as I did, will be less interested in trying to finish it, than they will in finding BW's as the touchstone?

Of course, it could be a generalization to say that this is solely the perspective of newer, younger fans, but did anyone else here find BWPS first, and kind of cleave to it as a result?

[Please delete my account]

When I heard Smile live in 2004, I had heard whatever fragments of the album had previously ended up on official Beach Boys records, but had never heard any of the bootlegs. I was blown away by how well it all flowed together (with the one slightreservation that I got tired of the bicycle rider motif after it lasted through "H&V" and "Roll Plymouth Rock")
Since then I've heard many fanmixes with alternative running orders and, to me, the fragments and songs are all so good, and go together so well, that it doesn't matter too much what order you play them. They sound great in any order.

[Wirestone]

I'm older than you by a bit, but BWPS answered my remaining Smile questions. I'm glad we got the box, but I've never found the sequencing discussions all that gripping, mostly because I don't think the Brian of 1966-67 had the answers either. (For the record, I've always found the 12-track, banded album theory most persuasive, but who knows what those tracks would be like?)

Given the material he had to work with, BWPS is a marvel. It manages to square the circle of the sessions, and to do so with astonishing good humor. It's that change -- from the dark moodiness that overshadows the '60s stuff to the technicolor Looney Tunes vibe of the '04 record -- that turns off some folks, but to me it's essential. It's how modern-day Brian coped. It succeeds on its own terms. It's not the Smile, but it's a Smile, and from the only folks I'd want to hear it from.

[JK]

Ditto what Wirestone said about age, haha, but unlike most folks here I had never heard all of SMiLE until I bought BWPS. And even after buying TSS (the single CD format), I still prefer Brian's 2004 take. The original is in many ways a hair-raising listen but BWPS is warm and autumnal, like a sunset after a stormy day.     

I almost forgot... welcome, nakostopoulos! :=)

[Sam_BFC]

I'd only heard the original Good Vibrations when I first heard BWPS.  Possibly Smiley next, before the boots!

[onkster]

I love BWPS. Such flow, no dead spots. There are little things I wish there were more of (3 Score and 5, the great vocal tag to Veg, a few left-out H&V scraps...) but really, it just moves.

And every time I hear "Aloha nui means goodbye", I have this Pavlovian reaction resembling "Oh no, the ride is almost over!" Then GV comes right in and makes you feel great in the end after all.

And you just wanna get in line and go all over again.

[SBonilla]

I am not a fan of BWPS. I saw him perform it at Carnegie Hall; that was great. The record is flat, I do not like the sequencing concept, the add-on material. I don't like the lead vocals, for the most part; the bg vocals are good. Can't stand I Wanna Be Around.
I no longer own the vinyl or CD. I really don't like listening to it.

Smile is the parent who raised me. BWPS is the birth parent who came knocking decades later. "Hey, nice to meet you. Bye."

[buddhahat]

Hi nakostopaulos,

I was quite a beach boys fan when Brian premiered Smile at the RFH, but had never heard the non officially released stuff. Needless to say, my mind was blown hearing all this 66-67 era material for the first time, and with Brian singing lead too (my first BW concert) - a very moving experience. I became obsessed with smile from that day onwards and when bwps was released it was all I listened to for the next couple of years! So, yes, my experience is quite similar to yours in that BWPS was my inroad to smile. I don't listen to it so much now as it was sort of superseded by TSS disc 1 for me. I like how TSS took most of the BWPS sequence (with a few vintage sequencing quirks thrown in). It is smile for me, but I occasionally dig bwps out and am floored again by the side two suite and its other transcendent moments.

[debonbon]

I've been a Smile fanatic/tragic half my life now. I remember grabbing the first recording of BWPS live off the net and hearing it for the first time and the sequence blowing my mind. How some of the smaller fragments were tied into songs still give me chills. That said I find the album version of BWPS far too "happy", I much prefer the darkness of the original sessions. The new fans don't know how lucky they are, I spent years looking for pieces here and there.

I honestly never thought we'd get an official release but boy am I happy we did. I've made my own versions that follow a more traditional two side vinyl release over the years and now have a final version I love and listen to regularly. I can't get enough of Smile.

[JK]

I find the album version of BWPS far too "happy"

Obviously to each their own, but it is called SMiLE.

[Matt Bielewicz]

I feel obliged to sound a dissenting note here. I don't understand the 'BWPS makes the SMiLE material so happy' slant at all. Even less do I understand 'the original SMiLE was so dark and twisted'.

To me, one of the amazing things about the original SMiLE recordings, or the material that was recorded that may have been intended for that album in the 60s, is its sheer variety and depth. There are colossal-sounding moments of classical-sounding majesty, like Prayer, parts of Cabin Essence, Child Is Father Of The Man, Surf's Up, some of the keyboard and bass-led Bicycle Rider iterations for Do You Like Worms or Heroes and Villains, the middle section of 'Look' (or whatever you favour calling that track). There are also avant-garde moments of utter strangeness, like the bit we now call Fire Intro, that was originally annotated as Intro to Heroes and Villains (and also all of the strange recordings that led up to the production of that section, like 'Bag Of Tricks'), the 'directionless vocals' chants that ended up in the middle of the 1970 Cool Cool Water, or the Workshop session. There's downright *terrifying* music like Mrs O'Leary's Cow. And there are also crazy bits of cartoon-like, childish humour: Vega-Tables is the obvious example, but that's not all. There's musicians imitating farmyard animals on Barnyard, Brian's plans for films of that section involving chickens in training shoes, the 12th Street Rag in the middle of 'Look', the humorous skits possibly meant to be 'between-track' light relief, George Fell Into His French Horn, the 'old lady' versions of 'You're Welcome'... and of course, the fact that the album was supposed to be called SMiLE, and all that stuff Michael Vosse told us about how Brian thought people laughing had no ego, or however it was he put it. Finally, there's out-and-out exuberant music, which to me is as great a celebration of positive emotions in musical form as any I can think of: the verses of Heroes And Villains (no wonder Chuck Britz called it '...Hitsville!' on the session!), 'My Children Were Raised' from the same number, the bright and breezy Holidays, and of course, there's Good Vibrations.

To me, this material is simply *irreducible* to 'it's dark' or 'it's happy'. It's about the most varied collection of musical recordings I can think of that were ever intended for a single album.

I therefore marvel at these super-reductionist labels ('the 60s SMiLE recordings are moody', 'BWPS is too happy' etc). How can anyone say the original versions of Vega-Tables or Good Vibrations are 'dark'? How can anyone say the 2004 re-recording of Mrs O'Leary's Cow is 'happy' (if anything, to me that track is *even more terrifying* in its re-recorded form than the original)? Genuine questions; I just don't get it.

I accept that *behind the scenes*, Brian had an increasingly miserable time on the original SMiLE sessions, but I'm not sure that his increasingly unhappy state of mind should be confused with the feel of the music he recorded at that time. He was in a pretty fractured state by April 1967 by most accounts — and yet, that's also when he was in the studio, recording the sound of celery and carrots, entreating listeners to send him the name of their favourite vegetable, and producing one of the most upbeat productions on what might still, just, have turned into SMiLE (unless you feel, not necessarily illegitimately, that he was already working on the next album by then, but that's one of those arguments no-one is ever going to have a definitive answer to).

Similarly, can we say that the 2004 live shows and album were the product of a man completely at ease with himself? Not really. He wasn't exactly in to it for much of the live rehearsals, and to say he was nervous before the first shows in London is an understatement. You *can* make a case for saying that touring and releasing SMiLE that year helped him tremendously in the long run; you might even say it played a part in his remarkable recovery from 1982 to the present day. But I don't think you can exactly say that 'BWPS is happy'. It sounds the same as the 60s sessions to me in that respect: a swathe of extremely varied material, some dark, some light, some loud, some quiet, some beautiful, some bloody terrifying.

There's more to say on this topic, but it starts to get too deeply into the realms of personal opinion. I personally think Brian's band worked *incredibly* hard to reproduce the arrangements of the original SMiLE recordings in 2004, and that such differences as there are between the two, notwithstanding the Kurzweil keyboards and (obviously) the different vocalists involved, are as near to nothing as makes no odds. I certainly don't hear the kind of sheen over one set of recordings that renders one 'dark' and the other 'light'. But I recognise that not everyone will feel the same as me on that.

This also (finally) brings me around to providing my answer to the OP's original question. I *did* know the original recordings before BWPS was released; not for long, as I only started listening in 1995, which is nothing compared to some of the faithful who had been listening, hoping and waiting since 1967 — but from that year to about 2002 I was, like so many here, absolutely obsessed with the SMiLE sessions (or what was available of them back then, anyway). I immersed myself in them in a way I had never done with any other music before, or have since.

But when I heard BWPS for the first time, I felt like the re-recordings just carried on from where the original sessions left off. To me, they were first-rate completions of the original unfinished material and recordings that somehow managed to capture the same sound and ineffable spirit. I know a lot of people reading this did not feel the same way, and were disappointed; some of them have already posted in this thread to that effect. But for me, it all hung together. Perhaps that's why I felt BWPS was and is, simply SMiLE. Not the one we might have got in the 60s, of course, but the only finished one there will ever be, and a work of absolute majesty in its own right. Do I wish the finished version had the voices of the 60s Beach Boys on it? Sure, because those voices sound so unbelievably great! But what we *did* get is, to me, a worthy completion of the original concept nonetheless. I don't seem to experience the disconnect that others do.

So there you go — I was (just) of the pre-BWPS generation, but I embraced it just as a lot of the post-2004 fans who've posted here did. We 'pre-2004ers who like BWPS' do exist. If you knew of SMiLE before the 2004 shows, you don't necessarily hate the arrangement of the material that debuted live that year, or the re-recording that came out in the Autumn. I think it's all sublime, just like the original recordings.

[Tomorrowville]

I was obsessed with SMiLE bootlegs for a while, even making my own mixes and such, but BWPS pretty much sealed it all up for me.  I greatly prefer it to the original recordings, whatever issues there may be with it in terms of production vs. the '60s tracks, because it still sounds great, it's complete, and it just works so well.  I miss all the missing pieces when I listen to the '60s tapes.  They're fascinating to me, still, but BWPS is what I prefer to listen to as a "thing" by a wide margin, because it's something I can just listen to and think about and enjoy as a real, completed work.

I'm 32, if that helps give data to you generational thing. 

[Douchepool]

I got heavily into the band at the age of sixteen back in 2001 before BWPS was even a gleam in anyone's eyes and Smile was still "inappropriate music for us to make." Needless to say I plowed through the released and unreleased material available at the time. Then we got word of a live performance of the surviving fragments. And then there would be a recording of the program as the icing on the cake. Then Smile was "finished."

Well, it sounded good on paper.

The live performances were amazing. If the record was left as a live performance or even released as a live album it would have been better. The studio version of BWPS has that K-Tel feel to it and cannot hold a candle to the original recordings. Sure, a few extra lyrics and vocals here and there...but the ambiance is gone. A cursory listen to the original recordings betrays a much darker vision for the material and it is completely lost on BWPS.

[Capitol Punishment]

BWPS was one of the first records I heard when I was a kid so it will always have a sentimental value to me. When I got older, I heard about the original Smile tapes and went onto the internet and found Mok's version on youtube. To this day, Smile still blows me away and especially love TSS.

[Willy Wilson]

The live performances were amazing. If the record was left as a live performance or even released as a live album it would have been better. The studio version of BWPS has that K-Tel feel to it and cannot hold a candle to the original recordings. Sure, a few extra lyrics and vocals here and there...but the ambiance is gone. A cursory listen to the original recordings betrays a much darker vision for the material and it is completely lost on BWPS.

Totally agree.

[Summertime Blooz]

I wouldn't call the original Smile "dark", but there is a seriousness of purpose that I feel when I listen to it that I don't get from BWPS. I think it's  the youthful ambition of pushing the boundaries of your art into the unknown; the sense of something being at stake that the original Smile can convey at times. Not to be insulting to the well-intentioned creators of BWPS, but Smile 66-67, even unfinished, is the masterpiece and BWPS is just mostly a forgery.

[Mike's Beard]

I feel obliged to sound a dissenting note here. I don't understand the 'BWPS makes the SMiLE material so happy' slant at all. Even less do I understand 'the original SMiLE was so dark and twisted'.

Yeah put me in the camp of people who doesn't consider Smile 'dark' at all. Much of it is absurdly upbeat.

[Douchepool]

The original recordings are certainly heavier than the K-Tel repackaging, that's for sure. Combine that with the interplay between the musicians and the original recordings just feel better, more real. BWPS has zero of that. The magic and mystique of the music is just gone.

[Mike's Beard]

I think the music itself sounds fine on BWPS (with the exception of Fire, which can't match the 'freak out!' quality of the original), but the vocals can't begin to come close to those on the 66'67 recordings.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I wouldn't call the original Smile "dark", but there is a seriousness of purpose that I feel when I listen to it that I don't get from BWPS. I think it's  the youthful ambition of pushing the boundaries of your art into the unknown; the sense of something being at stake that the original Smile can convey at times. Not to be insulting to the well-intentioned creators of BWPS, but Smile 66-67, even unfinished, is the masterpiece and BWPS is just mostly a forgery.

I am not a fan of BWPS. I saw him perform it at Carnegie Hall; that was great. The record is flat, I do not like the sequencing concept, the add-on material. I don't like the lead vocals, for the most part; the bg vocals are good. Can't stand I Wanna Be Around.
I no longer own the vinyl or CD. I really don't like listening to it.

Smile is the parent who raised me. BWPS is the birth parent who came knocking decades later. "Hey, nice to meet you. Bye."

The original recordings are certainly heavier than the K-Tel repackaging, that's for sure. Combine that with the interplay between the musicians and the original recordings just feel better, more real. BWPS has zero of that. The magic and mystique of the music is just gone.

Gotta agree with these.

[JK]

H'mmm. Time to revisit The Smile Sessions, methinks. 

[pinkpapaver]

I'm older than you by a bit, but BWPS answered my remaining Smile questions. I'm glad we got the box, but I've never found the sequencing discussions all that gripping, mostly because I don't think the Brian of 1966-67 had the answers either. (For the record, I've always found the 12-track, banded album theory most persuasive, but who knows what those tracks would be like?)

Given the material he had to work with, BWPS is a marvel. It manages to square the circle of the sessions, and to do so with astonishing good humor. It's that change -- from the dark moodiness that overshadows the '60s stuff to the technicolor Looney Tunes vibe of the '04 record -- that turns off some folks, but to me it's essential. It's how modern-day Brian coped. It succeeds on its own terms. It's not the Smile, but it's a Smile, and from the only folks I'd want to hear it from.

're right
I think you'reoys the right.  Brian knew what he was doing with smile but not enough other people trusted his judgement.  He seems like an amazing person with an amazing ear.  he knew what he was doing.  There is nothing offensive there.  I've only been into the beach boys for 3 months and I am really making up for lost time.  The sheer volume of work before smile and the quality is amazing.  An then after.  There's always something new to discover with them.

[sockittome]

I'm trying to figure out why a number of people perceive the original SMiLE as dark.  Smiley Smile is dark.  Sure, Smiley might have some playful moments (Little Pad, etc.) but it does have quite a bit of that creepy dirge-like vibe going on.

SMiLE is anything but dark.  My Only Sunshine and Fire could be called somewhat dark, I suppose, but they pass by rather quickly and move onto perkier tracks.

BWPS is great, but I fear the "Which is better?" debate will go on till the end of time.  There are so many factors that fuel this debate. 

Here's a question:  If somehow in 2004 the surviving Beach Boys would've been able to pull together (like they did for That's Why God...), would BWPS....or BBPS have been perceived differently? 

(Sorry if we already went over this; I obviously missed it.....)

[filledeplage]

I wouldn't call the original Smile "dark", but there is a seriousness of purpose that I feel when I listen to it that I don't get from BWPS. I think it's  the youthful ambition of pushing the boundaries of your art into the unknown; the sense of something being at stake that the original Smile can convey at times. Not to be insulting to the well-intentioned creators of BWPS, but Smile 66-67, even unfinished, is the masterpiece and BWPS is just mostly a forgery.

Smile struck me more as "mysterious and abstract" (in a good way) rather than "dark." It made me think, about imagery and sonority (wind chimes) as I was learning all these literature terms to analyze the tools of a writer, such as "onomatopoeia" (such as "tick-tock" - where the words emulate the sound.) I bet they didn't imagine what a teaching tool it was mid-60's! 

BWPS - put together the tracks which had "leaked out" randomly in various LP's and on the GV box set.  It isn't a forgery but more Brian unlocking his vision.  For me (and many others) the triumph was Brian taking it "live" notwithstanding everything which had taken place over time, bolstered by the success and confidence of his Pet Sounds tour and his band's ability to replicate (especially Nelson Bragg's hand percussion instrumentation) the studio effects from old friend Smiley.

The Pet Sounds album tour presented in its' entirety (of course with the GH mixed in) was well received. And proved that Brian could take a themed work and make it successful, on tour, and made a good model, even with TLOS.  But the actual BB sessions are the real deal with the twenty something BB voices.

Old Smiley is a classic, "complete" or not...

[donald]

I liked the sound of Brian's vocalists on BWPS.    It makes for a nice completed work with consistency musically and vocally. so for a completed piece it works very well for me.   The SMiLE box is all  that it can be given that it was the never completed work, finally released warts and all, take after take included.    Nice to hear all of these cleaned up parts after years of listening to boots and pieces.    Generationally,  younger folks get it all in a few short years and have the experience of hearing IT ALL  in short order for the first time.    Just a different perspective than those of us who digested it bit by bit over the decades.