The great lost Dennis Wilson 1965 lead vocal. For what song?

[CenturyDeprived]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

I was floored too when C-man pointed this out to me. But now I listen and it's pretty obvious that Dennis finishes two specific lines in the song. The exact points on the link below are at .19 seconds..."leave behind"...the second syllable of behind  the "hind" part is clearly Dennis. And...at 1.33 "might be found"...the second syllable of "found"...again clearly Dennis. There might be more traces of him in the song, but those two points Brian punches his voice out, and Dennis' in, and you know what? It works perfectly. Brian's genius for using the right voice at the right time on display again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0l8AAEIzs

I agree. Funny enough, the the second syllable of "found" has always been one of my favorite parts of the song, the way it is sung with such longing. I must have known on a subliminal level that it sounded just like Denny, but somehow I never consciously made the connection.

A fascinating comparison is to check out the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on the Pet Sounds Sessions set. That version sounds to be all Brian from start to finish. I think it's possible some of the chorus vocals from that version were not re-recorded for (and were used on) the final album version, but the lead vocal, on the verses especially, sounds to be a wholly unique Brian take.

The timeline is interesting to ponder. I think there are 2 possibilities:

1. Was the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on PSS recorded first as a scratch vocal for Denny to learn how to sing the song?

2. Or was Denny's version the 1st recorded version, which Brian decided against, then leading Brian to recording the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (entirely sung by Brian), which Brian also then decided against, whereupon he then decided to blend small parts of Denny's initial take, and Brian re-recording Brian's own vocals surrounding those Denny parts?

3. I guess the other alternate possibility is that Brian specifically had Denny come in to record those parts after Brian's final lead had been recorded.

We'll probably never know, unless Brian remembers and spills the beans. Anyone have any theories?

Listening to the "alternate" IJWMFTT just now, I gotta say this: it sounds (to me) like it's Brian AND Dennis singing the lead together all the way through! The phrasing throughout is too off to be just Brian double-tracked, and I can hear the same Denny inflections on the final two syllables of the verse lines as heard in the final mix, but here Brian is also singing over the top of them. It's similar to the Brian-Carl dual lead on the alternate GOK (which I know is a hotly debated topic, with some claiming it's actually all Carl and others all Brian, but I hear it as Brian-Carl). Same with this alternate IJWMFTT. I think Brian laid down a "demo" lead, which Denny then doubled. Then Brian decided to leave his own voice in there for this mix, but eventually decided to drop Dennis (except for the last two syllables of both verse lines), and possibly redo his own lead (or at least one of his two lead tracks). There are two track sheets extant from the Columbia 8-track vocal sessions for this song: the first, dated 3-10 (and with the notation "Dennis Tune" written down the left side of the sheet) has three sets of handwriting (probably the engineers'), which seem to indicate later revisions made prior to the date of 4-13, which is on the second track sheet (apparently the date when additional revisions, as heard in the final mix, were made). Among the later notations on the 3-10 sheet are ones for "Bryan - New Lead". This leads me to believe the "alternate" version from the PSS box set was made on 3-10, after which Dennis' lead was mostly replaced on a later (undocumented) date by a new Brian lead (probably the one we hear in the final mix). I think the only parts added on 4-13 were the group vocals that come in during the latter half of the verses, which are absent from the "alternate" mix.

Wow, wow, wow and... oh, I dunno... WOW! I'm gonna go back and listen to the alternate IJWMFTT right now with good headphones. I love that after all these years, we are still figuring out and discovering incredible nuggets of info like this which were previously unknown for decades. Amazing. And right under our noses, no less...

EDIT: Just listened to headphones now. I'm not 100% sure on the theory that Denny is on the alternate IJWMFTT from PSS. But maybe...

Parts I think could possibly be Denny, since Brian sounds a bit "off" and not quite like his usual voice:

the word "good" at 0:25

last syllable of "Inspiration" at 1:19

interestingly, last syllable of "about" at 1:45 sounds very Carl-like

I'm not sold, but I'm a solid maybe.

[CenturyDeprived]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

I was floored too when C-man pointed this out to me. But now I listen and it's pretty obvious that Dennis finishes two specific lines in the song. The exact points on the link below are at .19 seconds..."leave behind"...the second syllable of behind  the "hind" part is clearly Dennis. And...at 1.33 "might be found"...the second syllable of "found"...again clearly Dennis. There might be more traces of him in the song, but those two points Brian punches his voice out, and Dennis' in, and you know what? It works perfectly. Brian's genius for using the right voice at the right time on display again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0l8AAEIzs

I agree. Funny enough, the the second syllable of "found" has always been one of my favorite parts of the song, the way it is sung with such longing. I must have known on a subliminal level that it sounded just like Denny, but somehow I never consciously made the connection.

A fascinating comparison is to check out the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on the Pet Sounds Sessions set. That version sounds to be all Brian from start to finish. I think it's possible some of the chorus vocals from that version were not re-recorded for (and were used on) the final album version, but the lead vocal, on the verses especially, sounds to be a wholly unique Brian take.

The timeline is interesting to ponder. I think there are 2 possibilities:

1. Was the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on PSS recorded first as a scratch vocal for Denny to learn how to sing the song?

2. Or was Denny's version the 1st recorded version, which Brian decided against, then leading Brian to recording the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (entirely sung by Brian), which Brian also then decided against, whereupon he then decided to blend small parts of Denny's initial take, and Brian re-recording Brian's own vocals surrounding those Denny parts?

3. I guess the other alternate possibility is that Brian specifically had Denny come in to record those parts after Brian's final lead had been recorded.

We'll probably never know, unless Brian remembers and spills the beans. Anyone have any theories?

Listening to the "alternate" IJWMFTT just now, I gotta say this: it sounds (to me) like it's Brian AND Dennis singing the lead together all the way through! The phrasing throughout is too off to be just Brian double-tracked, and I can hear the same Denny inflections on the final two syllables of the verse lines as heard in the final mix, but here Brian is also singing over the top of them. It's similar to the Brian-Carl dual lead on the alternate GOK (which I know is a hotly debated topic, with some claiming it's actually all Carl and others all Brian, but I hear it as Brian-Carl). Same with this alternate IJWMFTT. I think Brian laid down a "demo" lead, which Denny then doubled. Then Brian decided to leave his own voice in there for this mix, but eventually decided to drop Dennis (except for the last two syllables of both verse lines), and possibly redo his own lead (or at least one of his two lead tracks). There are two track sheets extant from the Columbia 8-track vocal sessions for this song: the first, dated 3-10 (and with the notation "Dennis Tune" written down the left side of the sheet) has three sets of handwriting (probably the engineers'), which seem to indicate later revisions made prior to the date of 4-13, which is on the second track sheet (apparently the date when additional revisions, as heard in the final mix, were made). Among the later notations on the 3-10 sheet are ones for "Bryan - New Lead". This leads me to believe the "alternate" version from the PSS box set was made on 3-10, after which Dennis' lead was mostly replaced on a later (undocumented) date by a new Brian lead (probably the one we hear in the final mix). I think the only parts added on 4-13 were the group vocals that come in during the latter half of the verses, which are absent from the "alternate" mix.

This has motivated me to dig in deeper with some unofficial recordings (not that I possibly have them).

Give a listen to the track labelled "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times (1st Lead Vocal Overdub)" from Unsurpassed Masters Volume 14: The Alternate Pet Sounds Album Volume 2

At the very end, at 3:28, after Brian has finished his vocal take, someone else (in the right channel) quickly and slightly jokingly sings the line "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times"; sounds like Dennis to me. Maybe this was left over on the tape that got taped over? It sounds like just before this, Brian is coaching Dennis how to sing it.

[kermit27]

Would anyone that has the skills able to do some sort of digital extraction of the alternate lead to separate the doubled part so we can hear them separately? (I don't know if it is possible, but it's a thought....)

[Fall Breaks]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

I was floored too when C-man pointed this out to me. But now I listen and it's pretty obvious that Dennis finishes two specific lines in the song. The exact points on the link below are at .19 seconds..."leave behind"...the second syllable of behind  the "hind" part is clearly Dennis. And...at 1.33 "might be found"...the second syllable of "found"...again clearly Dennis. There might be more traces of him in the song, but those two points Brian punches his voice out, and Dennis' in, and you know what? It works perfectly. Brian's genius for using the right voice at the right time on display again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0l8AAEIzs

I agree. Funny enough, the the second syllable of "found" has always been one of my favorite parts of the song, the way it is sung with such longing. I must have known on a subliminal level that it sounded just like Denny, but somehow I never consciously made the connection.

A fascinating comparison is to check out the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on the Pet Sounds Sessions set. That version sounds to be all Brian from start to finish. I think it's possible some of the chorus vocals from that version were not re-recorded for (and were used on) the final album version, but the lead vocal, on the verses especially, sounds to be a wholly unique Brian take.

The timeline is interesting to ponder. I think there are 2 possibilities:

1. Was the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on PSS recorded first as a scratch vocal for Denny to learn how to sing the song?

2. Or was Denny's version the 1st recorded version, which Brian decided against, then leading Brian to recording the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (entirely sung by Brian), which Brian also then decided against, whereupon he then decided to blend small parts of Denny's initial take, and Brian re-recording Brian's own vocals surrounding those Denny parts?

3. I guess the other alternate possibility is that Brian specifically had Denny come in to record those parts after Brian's final lead had been recorded.

We'll probably never know, unless Brian remembers and spills the beans. Anyone have any theories?

Listening to the "alternate" IJWMFTT just now, I gotta say this: it sounds (to me) like it's Brian AND Dennis singing the lead together all the way through! The phrasing throughout is too off to be just Brian double-tracked, and I can hear the same Denny inflections on the final two syllables of the verse lines as heard in the final mix, but here Brian is also singing over the top of them. It's similar to the Brian-Carl dual lead on the alternate GOK (which I know is a hotly debated topic, with some claiming it's actually all Carl and others all Brian, but I hear it as Brian-Carl). Same with this alternate IJWMFTT. I think Brian laid down a "demo" lead, which Denny then doubled. Then Brian decided to leave his own voice in there for this mix, but eventually decided to drop Dennis (except for the last two syllables of both verse lines), and possibly redo his own lead (or at least one of his two lead tracks). There are two track sheets extant from the Columbia 8-track vocal sessions for this song: the first, dated 3-10 (and with the notation "Dennis Tune" written down the left side of the sheet) has three sets of handwriting (probably the engineers'), which seem to indicate later revisions made prior to the date of 4-13, which is on the second track sheet (apparently the date when additional revisions, as heard in the final mix, were made). Among the later notations on the 3-10 sheet are ones for "Bryan - New Lead". This leads me to believe the "alternate" version from the PSS box set was made on 3-10, after which Dennis' lead was mostly replaced on a later (undocumented) date by a new Brian lead (probably the one we hear in the final mix). I think the only parts added on 4-13 were the group vocals that come in during the latter half of the verses, which are absent from the "alternate" mix.

Wow, wow, wow and... oh, I dunno... WOW! I'm gonna go back and listen to the alternate IJWMFTT right now with good headphones. I love that after all these years, we are still figuring out and discovering incredible nuggets of info like this which were previously unknown for decades. Amazing. And right under our noses, no less...

EDIT: Just listened to headphones now. I'm not 100% sure on the theory that Denny is on the alternate IJWMFTT from PSS. But maybe...

Parts I think could possibly be Denny, since Brian sounds a bit "off" and not quite like his usual voice:

the word "good" at 0:25

last syllable of "Inspiration" at 1:19

interestingly, last syllable of "about" at 1:45 sounds very Carl-like

I'm not sold, but I'm a solid maybe.

More Dennis spots?
"...in" at 0:04?
"...could" at 0:28?
"...out" at 1:40?

Agree with the Carl-like at 1:45.

And on the acapella version: at 1:21, listen to the darker(/hoarser) voice of the two singing "arou-ound". Could that be Dennis too?

[Fall Breaks]

Also, if we think there's an entire IJWMFTT lead vocal by Dennis buried beneath Brian's, isn't it possible that it could be on a separate track? Or would it already have been discovered and released on the PSS box set if that was the case?

[c-man]

Also, if we think there's an entire IJWMFTT lead vocal by Dennis buried beneath Brian's, isn't it possible that it could be on a separate track? Or would it already have been discovered and released on the PSS box set if that was the case?

No, I think it would have been released if it did still exist. The track notations on the two track sheets have "Bryan" (sic) next to all the ones labeled as lead vocals, and there's no mention of Dennis specifically, except for that "Dennis Tune" notation down the left side of the 3-10 sheet.

[CenturyDeprived]

Interesting topic as I was reading about 'Good Vibrations' the other day. Wiki, quoting the Badman book, mentioned Dennis was down for the lead but due to laryngitis Carl took over. Never knew this. Confirmed?

If that's true, it's a very interesting almost-history to consider. Brian pegged Dennis for being the lead singer of two of Brian's own most important and seminal tunes (GV + IJWMFTT).  Brian was really trying to get both of his brothers, not just Carl, to come out of their shells for leads on top-tier songs right around the same time.

Add the almost-Dennis lead for Sail On Sailor into the mix, and you have an alternate BB history that Dennis perhaps gets quite a bit more recognition and credit. Not saying that the final, released non-Denny leads on those songs aren't killer, because they are very, very much so.

[Generation42]

Speaking of alt. vocals (and "Sail on Sailor"), did Mr. Desper say he thought that he may have had somewhere (in storage, believe) a copy of Carl singing the lead on S.O.S.?

Or am I misremembering?



Oh, and also: Brian joining Carl for those signature falsetto "I... hear the sound of a" and "When... I look" hooks in the verse of "Good Vibrations" is an example of my favorite couple of moments in all of recorded 'Beach Boy-dom' (surpassed, perhaps, only by the classic "Ahhh......." harmony sung by the whole group later in the same number).

It's been a while since I listened to the performance, but I believe that the two brothers sung it 'live' together like that during the rehearsal prior to the gig (though I cannot recall if they did it during the actual shows) in Hawaii, '67, right?

Finally, does anyone know of any other recorded times where Brian joined Carl for those two key moments of G.V. in a live setting?

[WWDWD?]

I can hear Dennis doubling the verses too. It's hard to hear Dennis clearly under the reverb. His voice is definitely a lot quieter than Brian's for the most part but it pops out more on those phrase ending syllables that people mentioned... or in some cases it sound like his voice is boosted or replaces Brian's altogether.

[amnesiac]

The Brian/Dennis vocal on IJWMFTT is blowing my mind right now. I've always liked those ending syllables on "behind" and "found," but I never really connected them to Dennis until I saw this thread. The Brian lead vocal on the higher parts of Good Vibrations is also news to me. It's truly amazing how deep these recordings really are and how much more stuff you notice with each listen.

Hopefully the full Dennis-lead on IJWMFTT gets released someday, but it probably would have been featured on the Sessions box if it still existed. It's a shame that Dennis never got to sing lead on Pet Sounds, but I suppose it was for the best.

Also, hello!

[LeeDempsey]

I can't believe I missed this discussion back in May...  I have ALWAYS thought I heard Dennis' voice at the end of the verses to "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times," but I never put it in writing.  My dog-ears are usually right when I think I've heard something; good to know that they still work in my AARP years!

Lee

[Awesoman]

As most of us know, Brian Wilson's notes for the Summer Days (and Summer Nights!) album say that Dennis was asleep in his vehicle when he was supposed to sing a lead on that album. Does anyone know what song he was supposed to sing?

And why couldn't they just wake him up? 

I'm sure whatever song he was set to sing, the vocal wasn't going to be "great".

[c-man]

As most of us know, Brian Wilson's notes for the Summer Days (and Summer Nights!) album say that Dennis was asleep in his vehicle when he was supposed to sing a lead on that album. Does anyone know what song he was supposed to sing?

And why couldn't they just wake him up? 

I'm sure whatever song he was set to sing, the vocal wasn't going to be "great".

Brian stated in 1990 that it was "You're So Good To Me".

[JasonK]

I always thought Dennis should have sang the lead on Vegetables.  I love Al's voice, but he sounds a bored to me on that song.  None of the playfulness the tune deserves.

[Craig Boyd]

I always did think the way the voice fades at the end of certain lines in IJWMFT was awfully like Dennis. How great to have this confirmed.

[JasonK]

Speaking of alt. vocals (and "Sail on Sailor"), did Mr. Desper say he thought that he may have had somewhere (in storage, believe) a copy of Carl singing the lead on S.O.S.?

Or am I misremembering?



Oh, and also: Brian joining Carl for those signature falsetto "I... hear the sound of a" and "When... I look" hooks in the verse of "Good Vibrations" is an example of my favorite couple of moments in all of recorded 'Beach Boy-dom' (surpassed, perhaps, only by the classic "Ahhh......." harmony sung by the whole group later in the same number).

It's been a while since I listened to the performance, but I believe that the two brothers sung it 'live' together like that during the rehearsal prior to the gig (though I cannot recall if they did it during the actual shows) in Hawaii, '67, right?

Finally, does anyone know of any other recorded times where Brian joined Carl for those two key moments of G.V. in a live setting?

I recall him saying this as well, about the Carl lead vocal.

[Bicyclerider]

And Brian had Dennis try singing the first verse of Sloop J B as well - would love to have all those Denny vocals as alternate takes to the familiar versions!

[37!ws]

I have a feeling that the Denny vocals were on the same track as the Carl vocals...probably had 'em all take turns on the same track, and Carl would have been the last one. But man, Carl's vocal just...so did not work...

BTW, if Denny was supposed to sing lead on "You're So Good To Me," why didn't he sing it in concert instead of Al?

[LATER ADDENDUM]

OK, I missed the whole IJWMFTT portion of this thread! I listened to the vocals-only, and sure enough I swear I heard Denny a few times. I texted my wife and asked her to call me during my lunch break. I told her about this thread. She didn't have headphones (I told her to listen with headphones), but she listened to it via iTunes on her laptop, with the crappy laptop speakers. I heard it over the phone from those laptop speakers! She actually said, "OH MY GOD!"

Her theory is that it might actually be Brian but attempting to sound like Dennis.

My theory is this: since the obvious Dennis moments are at the ends of lines, it *is* Dennis. Brian went in to overdub his vocals on those lines, erasing Dennis's lines in the process. The louder, higher lines ("Where can I turn..." etc.) were ALWAYS sung by Brian, so he only needed to wipe out the first two lines, sung by Dennis. Why do we hear Dennis at the end of the line? I seriously doubt Brian would have intentionally thought "Hmm, I want the end of that melisma to use Dennis's voice." Too delicate an operation. One mistake and the Dennis vocal is COMPLETELY obliterated. My thought: the engineer punched out a bit too early, or perhaps the erase head on the tape deck wasn't properly in sync with the record head. That would explain why it's only really audible at the end of some lines.