The great lost Dennis Wilson 1965 lead vocal. For what song?

[Joel Goldenberg]

I read --- many (!!) years ago , that he was to take the lead on Help me Rhonda.  Cannot recall source.

If he wasn't originally able to, he finally did so on stage in the 1970s. One example is on the Made in California set, IIRC.

[Jon Stebbins]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

[c-man]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

[kermit27]

I just went and listened to the isolated vocals and (while I'm no expect), I thought I could hear Dennis on the end of these lines:

(The first): But what goes wrong

and: Where new things might be found

[CenturyDeprived]

By the way, is it pretty much confirmed that it's Brian subtly doubling Dennis on the falsetto-ish parts in "In the Back of My Mind"?

For example, "I tried to run far way" and "I tried to rationalize"...

[CenturyDeprived]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I just went and listened to the isolated vocals and (while I'm no expect), I thought I could hear Dennis on the end of these lines:

(The first): But what goes wrong

and: Where new things might be found

Before this interesting revelation, I always thought the last word of the verses sounded a bit different.  Never thought anything of it because Brian sounds different to me on this song anyway.  Very cool to find this out!

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

That's interesting you say that.  Before I became a hardcore fan I thought Brian was singing the whole thing because of those two words.  Then I found out Carl has the whole lead, but I still believed Brian had to be on those parts.  Good to know I was right. 

[CenturyDeprived]

Weird (and very unfortunate) that there are two leads which both happen to be Dennis, that were eventually completely (or nearly completely) wiped for another lead singer to sing. Man do I wish those tapes for SOS and IJWMFTT hadn't been taped over.

Are there any other known alternate BB member vocals for any songs that were taped over besides Dennis? I guess we are in fact lucky to have the alternate BB member vocals for any songs at all, but I wonder if anyone else suffered the dreaded taped-over fate that Dennis did.

[Ian]

Yes but let's face it Brians vocal on I just wasn't made for cannot be topped by any mortal. Sublime

[bgas]

Weird (and very unfortunate) that there are two leads which both happen to be Dennis, that were eventually completely (or nearly completely) wiped for another lead singer to sing. Man do I wish those tapes for SOS and IJWMFTT hadn't been taped over.

Are there any other known alternate BB member vocals for any songs that were taped over besides Dennis? I guess we are in fact lucky to have the alternate BB member vocals for any songs at all, but I wonder if anyone else suffered the dreaded taped-over fate that Dennis did.

It seems to me it's only "dreaded"  if Dennis didn't want his vocals wiped. and I can't imagine it was a problem for him deferring to Brian's choices.  I could see  Mike, MAYBE, once in a while having a problem, but I don't get the sense that any of them really had a problem with whom Brian eventually chose to sing the leads.

[metal flake paint]

I believe David Leaf wrote in the liner notes for the Capitol Today! / Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!!) twofer CD release that the song was "You're So Good To Me."

Lee

Thanks. ButI still have my doubts about the "Dennis was asleep" scenario. Takes a heck of a lot of time to create a track, and Dennis could have added his vocal at any time. Unless it was all done live...

It seems to me that time was actually fairly tight. According to AGD's site, the vocals for YSGT were recorded along with the vocals for three other songs on May 24th. And my guess is they had to book specific studio time to record these vocals.

The question is, do Dennis vocals appear on the other three songs for that day: Girl from New York City, Bugged, And Your Dreams Come True.

Presently it would seem that only on "...Bugged..." according to Craig Slowinski.

[CenturyDeprived]

Weird (and very unfortunate) that there are two leads which both happen to be Dennis, that were eventually completely (or nearly completely) wiped for another lead singer to sing. Man do I wish those tapes for SOS and IJWMFTT hadn't been taped over.

Are there any other known alternate BB member vocals for any songs that were taped over besides Dennis? I guess we are in fact lucky to have the alternate BB member vocals for any songs at all, but I wonder if anyone else suffered the dreaded taped-over fate that Dennis did.

It seems to me it's only "dreaded"  if Dennis didn't want his vocals wiped. and I can't imagine it was a problem for him deferring to Brian's choices.  I could see  Mike, MAYBE, once in a while having a problem, but I don't get the sense that any of them really had a problem with whom Brian eventually chose to sing the leads.

I only meant "dreaded" in terms of what a bummer it is for us fans, today, that some alternate song versions were actually taped over and erased (not that another vocalist was simply chosen for the final version). At the time, I'm sure future box sets were the furthest thing from Brian's mind; still, we somehow are lucky that some things weren't taped over, as we have alternate versions of songs, like Mike's Please Let Me Wonder and I'm Waiting For the Day leads, Brian's Here Today lead, Billy Hinsche's Honkin' Down the Highway lead, etc.

It seems that perhaps Denny was the only BB to suffer actually be taped over when it came to choosing a different vocalist, but perhaps (and more than likely) I am incorrect in wondering that.

[c-man]

By the way, is it pretty much confirmed that it's Brian subtly doubling Dennis on the falsetto-ish parts in "In the Back of My Mind"?

For example, "I tried to run far way" and "I tried to rationalize"...

That's Carl.

[CenturyDeprived]

By the way, is it pretty much confirmed that it's Brian subtly doubling Dennis on the falsetto-ish parts in "In the Back of My Mind"?

For example, "I tried to run far way" and "I tried to rationalize"...

That's Carl.

Very cool, thanks for the info.

[Jon Stebbins]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

I was floored too when C-man pointed this out to me. But now I listen and it's pretty obvious that Dennis finishes two specific lines in the song. The exact points on the link below are at .19 seconds..."leave behind"...the second syllable of behind  the "hind" part is clearly Dennis. And...at 1.33 "might be found"...the second syllable of "found"...again clearly Dennis. There might be more traces of him in the song, but those two points Brian punches his voice out, and Dennis' in, and you know what? It works perfectly. Brian's genius for using the right voice at the right time on display again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0l8AAEIzs

[c-man]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

The last two syllables of both verses, for sure.

[c-man]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

That's interesting you say that.  Before I became a hardcore fan I thought Brian was singing the whole thing because of those two words.  Then I found out Carl has the whole lead, but I still believed Brian had to be on those parts.  Good to know I was right. 

I first learned of Brian taking those high falsetto parts of "GV" from a Carl interview in 1981...Carl said his voice at the time wasn't strong enough to hit those high notes, so Brian did it for him. Later, his voice grew stronger and he had no problem hitting those high notes in concert. The writer pointed out the irony of then-current live arrangement, where Brian sang Carl's part ('cause Carl was boycotting the touring band at the time) and Bruce taking Brian's high falsetto lines. Then later, of course, I heard the bootleg mixes where one verse has just Carl's lines and the other has just Brian's, so it's real obvious. Never could hear the song the same way again, after this!

[Mr. Verlander]

[quote author=guitarfool2002 link=topic=20776.msg514600#msg514600 date=1430437935


And don't forget the original plan for the verses of Cabinessence ('light the camp and fire mellow...') was to have Dennis singing as the narrator of the story. Now *that* would have been something...
[/quote]

I've always been intrigued by what Vosse said about it: "Dennis was going to sing it by himself and sound like a funky cat up in the mountains somewhere singing to a chick by a fireplace; very simple—and that's all there was to it."

[petsite]

Dennis was sidelined with an upper resp infection when he was to sing lead on Vibes. But Carl should have always been the one to sing that.

[CenturyDeprived]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

I was floored too when C-man pointed this out to me. But now I listen and it's pretty obvious that Dennis finishes two specific lines in the song. The exact points on the link below are at .19 seconds..."leave behind"...the second syllable of behind  the "hind" part is clearly Dennis. And...at 1.33 "might be found"...the second syllable of "found"...again clearly Dennis. There might be more traces of him in the song, but those two points Brian punches his voice out, and Dennis' in, and you know what? It works perfectly. Brian's genius for using the right voice at the right time on display again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0l8AAEIzs

I agree. Funny enough, the the second syllable of "found" has always been one of my favorite parts of the song, the way it is sung with such longing. I must have known on a subliminal level that it sounded just like Denny, but somehow I never consciously made the connection.

A fascinating comparison is to check out the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on the Pet Sounds Sessions set. That version sounds to be all Brian from start to finish. I think it's possible some of the chorus vocals from that version were not re-recorded for (and were used on) the final album version, but the lead vocal, on the verses especially, sounds to be a wholly unique Brian take.

The timeline is interesting to ponder. I think there are 2 possibilities:

1. Was the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on PSS recorded first as a scratch vocal for Denny to learn how to sing the song?

2. Or was Denny's version the 1st recorded version, which Brian decided against, then leading Brian to recording the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (entirely sung by Brian), which Brian also then decided against, whereupon he then decided to blend small parts of Denny's initial take, and Brian re-recording Brian's own vocals surrounding those Denny parts?

3. I guess the other alternate possibility is that Brian specifically had Denny come in to record those parts after Brian's final lead had been recorded.

We'll probably never know, unless Brian remembers and spills the beans. Anyone have any theories?

[monicker]

I've always been amazed by how Brian managed, on a couple of spots, to sound exactly like Dennis on IJWMFTT. And so it is.   

[Wirestone]

Astonishing.

It's disguised a little because BW doesn't fade out all the way in each case.

But wow.

[Mike's Beard]

After years of listening to a song, you think you know it inside out and then you learn something new about it. Great discovery guys!

[c-man]

Regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times...due to C-man's research it was brought to my attention that forensic evidence of Dennis' lead vocal on that one actually exists within the released version...I hope I'm not letting a cat out the bag here...but yes, I will defer to C-man, but I'm absolutely convinced traces of Dennis' voice is in there, on the actual Pet Sounds version.

Yes...if you listen to the vocals-only mix from the PS Sessions box set, you'll notice punch-ins or punch-outs on Brian's verse lead - specifically, some obvious punches at the end of the verse lines - and these sound exactly like Dennis. My theory is Brian replaced Dennis' original lead, but kept those line-ending syllables, 'cause he really dug the way Dennis had sung 'em. Compare to the way Dennis sang line-ending syllables on "In The Back Of My Mind", and you'll see what I mean.

This is an amazing revelation. Wow. Huge. Almost as significant as finding out that Brian somewhat sneakily snuck his voice into Carl's lead of Good Vibrations on the "I" and "when" lines, which I didn't notice for years (along with most people, I'd imagine) until it was pointed out to me.

C-man, and Jon: can you point out the specific words you believe to be Dennis? Now that I listen to it, I'm hearing a number of possible words that might be him, but curious to hear other peoples' opinions.

I'm kinda floored by this, in a most wonderful way.

I was floored too when C-man pointed this out to me. But now I listen and it's pretty obvious that Dennis finishes two specific lines in the song. The exact points on the link below are at .19 seconds..."leave behind"...the second syllable of behind  the "hind" part is clearly Dennis. And...at 1.33 "might be found"...the second syllable of "found"...again clearly Dennis. There might be more traces of him in the song, but those two points Brian punches his voice out, and Dennis' in, and you know what? It works perfectly. Brian's genius for using the right voice at the right time on display again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0l8AAEIzs

I agree. Funny enough, the the second syllable of "found" has always been one of my favorite parts of the song, the way it is sung with such longing. I must have known on a subliminal level that it sounded just like Denny, but somehow I never consciously made the connection.

A fascinating comparison is to check out the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on the Pet Sounds Sessions set. That version sounds to be all Brian from start to finish. I think it's possible some of the chorus vocals from that version were not re-recorded for (and were used on) the final album version, but the lead vocal, on the verses especially, sounds to be a wholly unique Brian take.

The timeline is interesting to ponder. I think there are 2 possibilities:

1. Was the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (by Brian) version on PSS recorded first as a scratch vocal for Denny to learn how to sing the song?

2. Or was Denny's version the 1st recorded version, which Brian decided against, then leading Brian to recording the IJWMFTT alternate lead vocal (entirely sung by Brian), which Brian also then decided against, whereupon he then decided to blend small parts of Denny's initial take, and Brian re-recording Brian's own vocals surrounding those Denny parts?

3. I guess the other alternate possibility is that Brian specifically had Denny come in to record those parts after Brian's final lead had been recorded.

We'll probably never know, unless Brian remembers and spills the beans. Anyone have any theories?

Listening to the "alternate" IJWMFTT just now, I gotta say this: it sounds (to me) like it's Brian AND Dennis singing the lead together all the way through! The phrasing throughout is too off to be just Brian double-tracked, and I can hear the same Denny inflections on the final two syllables of the verse lines as heard in the final mix, but here Brian is also singing over the top of them. It's similar to the Brian-Carl dual lead on the alternate GOK (which I know is a hotly debated topic, with some claiming it's actually all Carl and others all Brian, but I hear it as Brian-Carl). Same with this alternate IJWMFTT. I think Brian laid down a "demo" lead, which Denny then doubled. Then Brian decided to leave his own voice in there for this mix, but eventually decided to drop Dennis (except for the last two syllables of both verse lines), and possibly redo his own lead (or at least one of his two lead tracks). There are two track sheets extant from the Columbia 8-track vocal sessions for this song: the first, dated 3-10 (and with the notation "Dennis Tune" written down the left side of the sheet) has three sets of handwriting (probably the engineers'), which seem to indicate later revisions made prior to the date of 4-13, which is on the second track sheet (apparently the date when additional revisions, as heard in the final mix, were made). Among the later notations on the 3-10 sheet are ones for "Bryan - New Lead". This leads me to believe the "alternate" version from the PSS box set was made on 3-10, after which Dennis' lead was mostly replaced on a later (undocumented) date by a new Brian lead (probably the one we hear in the final mix). I think the only parts added on 4-13 were the group vocals that come in during the latter half of the verses, which are absent from the "alternate" mix.