Would BB85 have existed in its current form if Denny had lived?

[KDS]

I wonder if Dennis lived, if the Boys would've recorded a studio version of You Are So Beautiful. 

I'd like to hope that if Dennis were on BB85, the drums would've sounded like they were played by a human being. 

[phirnis]

I wonder if and how Dennis' style of composition would've fit into the group's 80s sound.

[harrisonjon]

My understanding is that Dennis's singing voice was totally gone, so even with a full detox, I don't see him ever doing a BB vocal. That leaves the drums, which not many groups recorded very well in the 80s.

I'm guessing that he would have boycotted Kokomo in disgust, but then again I'm not sure he wanted to be on a BB record after the farce of Here Comes The Night, etc. Any Love/Bruce domination would have led to him steering clear.

[CenturyDeprived]

My understanding is that Dennis's singing voice was totally gone, so even with a full detox, I don't see him ever doing a BB vocal. That leaves the drums, which not many groups recorded very well in the 80s.

I'm guessing that he would have boycotted Kokomo in disgust, but then again I'm not sure he wanted to be on a BB record after the farce of Here Comes The Night, etc. Any Love/Bruce domination would have led to him steering clear.

Man. It's just so, so, so sad to think of a once vibrant talent who conveyed such emotion with his (admittedly nontraditionally "great") voice, having a singing voice that would be *totally* gone. It may well be that this was actually the case in 1983. I wonder : how much of Denny's realization of that, in and of itself, could have contributed to his severe depression/addictions and seemingly giving up in general? I can't imagine that Denny hearing his own voice in the vocal monitors singing YASB at the July 1983 show didn't depress the hell out of him.

[Generation42]

I wonder if Dennis lived, if the Boys would've recorded a studio version of You Are So Beautiful.

I would have loved that.  Why, oh why didn't they ever bother?

I'd like to hope that if Dennis were on BB85, the drums would've sounded like they were played by a human being. 

I'm still holding out hope of living to see the day that a The Beach Boys remix release, with way more organic sound, is announced.

I know the album was a reflection of its time, and I suppose that there's something to be said for that.

But I really feel as though hearing the record, minus the dated eighties sound, might make people sit up and take notice in a way that the production of the official version makes unnecessarily difficult.  I think the songs are there.

There is certainly precedent among other top acts.  John Lennon's Double Fantasy album was always a favorite of mine, but hearing it "Stripped" was much more than a novelty.  On some of the tracks, it was downright revelatory.

Shame it'll probably never happen for BB85.

[Jay]

I wonder if Dennis lived, if the Boys would've recorded a studio version of You Are So Beautiful.

I would have loved that.  Why, oh why didn't they ever bother?

I'd like to hope that if Dennis were on BB85, the drums would've sounded like they were played by a human being.  

I'm still holding out hope of living to see the day that a The Beach Boys remix release, with way more organic sound, is announced.

I know the album was a reflection of its time, and I suppose that there's something to be said for that.

But I really feel as though hearing the record, minus the dated eighties sound, might make people sit up and take notice in a way that the production of the official version makes unnecessarily difficult.  I think the songs are there.

There is certainly precedent among other top acts.  John Lennon's Double Fantasy album was always a favorite of mine, but hearing it "Stripped" was much more than a novelty.  On some of the tracks, it was downright revelatory.

Shame it'll probably never happen for BB85.

Considering that it was recorded on Digital equipment, I'm not really sure how much BB85 would benefit from a remix. I don't really think there is enough "real instrument" sound for it to work for a complete album remix. Especially since the drums were programmed.

[CenturyDeprived]

I wonder if Dennis lived, if the Boys would've recorded a studio version of You Are So Beautiful.

I would have loved that.  Why, oh why didn't they ever bother?

I'd like to hope that if Dennis were on BB85, the drums would've sounded like they were played by a human being.  

I'm still holding out hope of living to see the day that a The Beach Boys remix release, with way more organic sound, is announced.

I know the album was a reflection of its time, and I suppose that there's something to be said for that.

But I really feel as though hearing the record, minus the dated eighties sound, might make people sit up and take notice in a way that the production of the official version makes unnecessarily difficult.  I think the songs are there.

There is certainly precedent among other top acts.  John Lennon's Double Fantasy album was always a favorite of mine, but hearing it "Stripped" was much more than a novelty.  On some of the tracks, it was downright revelatory.

Shame it'll probably never happen for BB85.

Considering that it was recorded on Digital equipment, I'm not really sure how much BB85 would benefit from a remix. I don't really think there is enough "real instrument" sound for it to work for a complete album remix. Especially since the drums were programmed.

I hope against hope that one day, all BB albums will be digitally released as ProTools sessions with full multi-tracks of all available instrumental and vocal stems. Then maybe some remixing can happen; at least fan mix stuff.

Shouldn't monetizing multi-track recordings by legendary bands be the last big hurrah of the industry, anyway?

But even if they did that, they'd probably never get around to BB85 sadly. Kinda like how Wild Honey sits alone in the wilderness of being the lone mono album not reissued in stereo (c'mon Capitol... do it! Even with some extraction mixes!), and how Still Crusin' and SIP especially have a microscopic chance of being reissued.

[Kurosawa]

The Beach Boys product had deteriorated so much during the 80s that I suppose I would have had more respect for Dennis had he not wanted to record another album (of similar stuff at least) with the Beach Boys if he had survived. If Dennis had been able to overcome his drinking problems and had Brian and Carl been up for it, perhaps they could have recorded something together or combined their forces to get the Beach Boys to do something more imaginative, rather than trying to endlessly emulate earlier success.

Their being family and friends was a strength but also IMO a weakness. It kept them together when at times they were more suited to being apart.

I think they should have broke up in 1977 or whenever that really sad event on Al's birthday was.

[joshferrell]

who knows maybe some of his Bamboo stuff would have ended up on BB 85 had he lived,,,it would have been better than half of the album (or more)..can you imagine "It's not too late" instead of "Passing Friend" ? or "School Girl" instead of  "I do love you"?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I wonder if Dennis lived, if the Boys would've recorded a studio version of You Are So Beautiful.

I would have loved that.  Why, oh why didn't they ever bother?

I'd like to hope that if Dennis were on BB85, the drums would've sounded like they were played by a human being. 

I'm still holding out hope of living to see the day that a The Beach Boys remix release, with way more organic sound, is announced.

I know the album was a reflection of its time, and I suppose that there's something to be said for that.

But I really feel as though hearing the record, minus the dated eighties sound, might make people sit up and take notice in a way that the production of the official version makes unnecessarily difficult.  I think the songs are there.

There is certainly precedent among other top acts.  John Lennon's Double Fantasy album was always a favorite of mine, but hearing it "Stripped" was much more than a novelty.  On some of the tracks, it was downright revelatory.

Shame it'll probably never happen for BB85.

Considering that it was recorded on Digital equipment, I'm not really sure how much BB85 would benefit from a remix. I don't really think there is enough "real instrument" sound for it to work for a complete album remix. Especially since the drums were programmed.

I hope against hope that one day, all BB albums will be digitally released as ProTools sessions with full multi-tracks of all available instrumental and vocal stems. Then maybe some remixing can happen; at least fan mix stuff.

Shouldn't monetizing multi-track recordings by legendary bands be the last big hurrah of the industry, anyway?

But even if they did that, they'd probably never get around to BB85 sadly. Kinda like how Wild Honey sits alone in the wilderness of being the lone mono album not reissued in stereo (c'mon Capitol... do it! Even with some extraction mixes!), and how Still Crusin' and SIP especially have a microscopic chance of being reissued.

I'd love a shot at remixing.

[CenturyDeprived]

who knows maybe some of his Bamboo stuff would have ended up on BB 85 had he lived,,,it would have been better than half of the album (or more)..can you imagine "It's not too late" instead of "Passing Friend" ? or "School Girl" instead of  "I do love you"?

Man... That's an interesting thought. I could see "It's Not Too Late" being a legit companion piece to "Where I Belong" on the same record. It would have sucked so much less with more Denny. And if might have been more worthy of a record entitled "The Beach Boys". 

Which reminds me, a chance to reiterate my question… Does anybody have any theories on why, of all albums, they chose that album to be self–titled?  Could it be as simple as a completely meaningless marketing gimmick, or was it more of a statement of band unity in the wake of Denny's passing?

[Lonely Summer]

The Beach Boys product had deteriorated so much during the 80s that I suppose I would have had more respect for Dennis had he not wanted to record another album (of similar stuff at least) with the Beach Boys if he had survived. If Dennis had been able to overcome his drinking problems and had Brian and Carl been up for it, perhaps they could have recorded something together or combined their forces to get the Beach Boys to do something more imaginative, rather than trying to endlessly emulate earlier success.

Their being family and friends was a strength but also IMO a weakness. It kept them together when at times they were more suited to being apart.

I would say that, from a songwriting perspective, that`s a slightly harsh assessment of the BB85 stuff. Aside from California Calling (And I Always Will would have been a better inclusion) they tried to do a pretty mature album but they chose the wrong producer imo. Steve Levine`s work hasn`t exactly stood the test of time well. If they were going to choose to work with somebody hot at the time then the producer of someone like U2 or The Smiths would have been a better choice than Culture Club...

But the Beach Boys always saw themselves as a pop group, so naturally they would choose someone known for making good pop - as opposed to rock, or new wave - records. I think they accomplished exactly what they set out to do - make a 1980's pop album that had elements of their classic style in it.

That I can understand but there is some music from the 1980s that has aged well and some that really hasn`t. I can`t really imagine that many people listening to Culture Club albums nowadays...

The production is the worst thing about BB85 imo and it is more dated than a lot of the work the band did the 60s.

  No argument on that last point. So much of the 80's pop stuff was synth heavy, with drum machines that didn't even attempt to sound like the real thing. I suppose there are some people that still love that sound; myself, i would like to hear some recordings of BB85 songs played live, with the real instruments. Haven't had much luck with that, other than some live versions of "Getcha Back" and a poor quality audience recording of "It's Gettin' Late".

[Nicko1234]

No argument on that last point. So much of the 80's pop stuff was synth heavy, with drum machines that didn't even attempt to sound like the real thing. I suppose there are some people that still love that sound; myself, i would like to hear some recordings of BB85 songs played live, with the real instruments. Haven't had much luck with that, other than some live versions of "Getcha Back" and a poor quality audience recording of "It's Gettin' Late".

I agree with you but I think even when they attempted the songs live they sounded so cheesy:

Crack at Your Love:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjVJoRVkQ8

I`ve said for a long time though that I`m So Lonely is due a makeover. If someone were to do a simple piano arrangement of that then it could be quite affecting.

And one of the touring bands needs to add Where I Belong to the setlist...

[KDS]

I always have mixed feelings when it comes to remixing older material as opposed to remastering. 

For all of the faults of its Culture Club production, The Beach Boys 1985 album was what it was, a reflection of that time. 

I have several albums in my collection that don't have the best production in the world, but the songs are there. 

Personally, I think that the 85 album has a weak collection of songs, so I think the cold production is sometimes blamed for the album's lack in quality. 

[CenturyDeprived]

I always have mixed feelings when it comes to remixing older material as opposed to remastering. 

For all of the faults of its Culture Club production, The Beach Boys 1985 album was what it was, a reflection of that time. 

I have several albums in my collection that don't have the best production in the world, but the songs are there. 

Personally, I think that the 85 album has a weak collection of songs, so I think the cold production is sometimes blamed for the album's lack in quality. 

I think BW88 is the least dated sounding record when compared to BB85 and SIP. But I can (mostly) deal with the dated-sounding parts without them in and of themselves affecting my enjoyment of the music. Rad (or not so rad) chord changes, lyrics, and vibe are gonna shine through one way or another.

[Mike's Beard]

I always have mixed feelings when it comes to remixing older material as opposed to remastering.  

For all of the faults of its Culture Club production, The Beach Boys 1985 album was what it was, a reflection of that time.  

I have several albums in my collection that don't have the best production in the world, but the songs are there.  

Personally, I think that the 85 album has a weak collection of songs, so I think the cold production is sometimes blamed for the album's lack in quality.  

There's some real crap on it (roughly one third of the record I can't listen to) but it's saving grace is IMO Carl's singing never sounded better then it did on BB85.

[KDS]

I always have mixed feelings when it comes to remixing older material as opposed to remastering. 

For all of the faults of its Culture Club production, The Beach Boys 1985 album was what it was, a reflection of that time. 

I have several albums in my collection that don't have the best production in the world, but the songs are there. 

Personally, I think that the 85 album has a weak collection of songs, so I think the cold production is sometimes blamed for the album's lack in quality. 

I think BW88 is the least dated sounding record when compared to BB85 and SIP. But I can (mostly) deal with the dated-sounding parts without them in and of themselves affecting my enjoyment of the music. Rad (or not so rad) chord changes, lyrics, and vibe are gonna shine through one way or another.

I think this is because the Brian Wilson 1988 album isn't trying to latch on to the trendy sounds of the times the way that BB85 or SIP were. 

The songs may have some bad 1980s production, but I don't think anybody in the 1980s was writing songs like Rio Grande for example. 

[Lonely Summer]

No argument on that last point. So much of the 80's pop stuff was synth heavy, with drum machines that didn't even attempt to sound like the real thing. I suppose there are some people that still love that sound; myself, i would like to hear some recordings of BB85 songs played live, with the real instruments. Haven't had much luck with that, other than some live versions of "Getcha Back" and a poor quality audience recording of "It's Gettin' Late".

I agree with you but I think even when they attempted the songs live they sounded so cheesy:

Crack at Your Love:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjVJoRVkQ8

I`ve said for a long time though that I`m So Lonely is due a makeover. If someone were to do a simple piano arrangement of that then it could be quite affecting.

And one of the touring bands needs to add Where I Belong to the setlist...

Well, nothing was going to save Crack from the cheese factory; but I agree that one of the touring bands should do Where I Belong. would be a nice tribute to Carl.

[Generation42]

I'm still holding out hope of living to see the day that a The Beach Boys remix release, with way more organic sound, is announced.

I know the album was a reflection of its time, and I suppose that there's something to be said for that.

But I really feel as though hearing the record, minus the dated eighties sound, might make people sit up and take notice in a way that the production of the official version makes unnecessarily difficult.  I think the songs are there.

There is certainly precedent among other top acts.  John Lennon's Double Fantasy album was always a favorite of mine, but hearing it "Stripped" was much more than a novelty.  On some of the tracks, it was downright revelatory.

Shame it'll probably never happen for BB85.

Considering that it was recorded on Digital equipment, I'm not really sure how much BB85 would benefit from a remix. I don't really think there is enough "real instrument" sound for it to work for a complete album remix. Especially since the drums were programmed.

Yes, I've wondered about that, myself.  And it may be a real issue.

My thinking was, the very first thing you try to do is to tweak those individual digital drum tracks in such a way as to approach a more timeless sound.  But if that didn't quite achieve the desired effect?

Then maybe 'cheat' a bit by doing the best you can with those digital drums, and then also supplement them minimally with some additional new acoustic percussion.

...

But if either option just weren't feasible, and the digital drums just cannot be made to sound good, no matter what you do?

Well, in that case, my final (even more radical) thought is: How about just outright stripping away the digital drums, entirely?  Then replace what was lost with some modern day acoustic drums, percussion, etc.?  Whatever it takes.

But that opens a whole other can of worms.  The argument could, I suppose, be made that if you're going to go that far, then why not go the distance and just re-record the songs, entirely?  It would seem to cross the line from a remix project into... something else.

...

But putting aside dreams of an official remix release for a moment, I'm with CenturyDeprived: I'd still be very interested to hear what might be possible, just given the multi-tracks and the opportunity.  I'd have a lot of fun with those, and who knows what some real engineers might be able to come up with?

I said before that "the songs are there," and I stand by that.  Which is not to say I think we're dealing with long, lost Beach Boys classics, mind.  Just that I think that some new appreciation for the numbers could be won if they were ever able to be enjoyed in a different light.  I feel like the songs are better than they seem, encased in their current production.

The least fantastic option might be what was alluded to earlier: Live versions.

I know that it was hearing "Getcha' Back" live that really got me thinking about the whole thing.  Have they played every song from the album live?  I'm guessing not, but if enough of the record has been performed on-stage, maybe a collection of live versions could be compiled and included as the second disk of a BB85 deluxe version?

Toss in any demos?  Album session outtakes (like maybe "Oh, Lord")?  I'd buy it.

Ah, to dream...

[Lonely Summer]

Getcha Back, It's Gettin' Late, Crack at Your Love, She Believes in Love Again, California Calling and It's Just a Matter of Time were performed live. Whether they were properly recorded or not is another matter.

[Generation42]

Getcha Back, It's Gettin' Late, Crack at Your Love, She Believes in Love Again, California Calling and It's Just a Matter of Time were performed live. Whether they were properly recorded or not is another matter.

Awesome.

Good info, too.

Thanks for the reply!

[Jay]

To be honest, if there were to ever be a remix of "BB85", I'd rather have a few "drum-less" songs, than have somebody overdub them.