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Author Topic: Brian's Voice Change  (Read 15992 times)
grillo
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« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2015, 06:28:13 PM »

Didn't BW say he wanted to sound more manly like Randy Newman (?!). I think he was listening to a bunch of frank sinatra and hanging out with guys like harry nilsson...add randy newman and you get ITBOMM. Seems pretty purposeful to me.
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pixletwin
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« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2015, 09:01:23 PM »

Didn't BW say he wanted to sound more manly like Randy Newman (?!). I think he was listening to a bunch of frank sinatra and hanging out with guys like harry nilsson...add randy newman and you get ITBOMM. Seems pretty purposeful to me.

Interestingly, 1974 is also when Lennon and Nilsson were hanging out a lot around LA and Lennon talked Nilsson into nearly destroying his voice. So I wonder if this idea was just in the air around the rock elite in LA at the time.
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« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2015, 11:34:23 PM »

Well, there IS that famous picture of Brian with Nilsson at that time...

As for his voice, I have long maintained it was a mixture of self sabotage and an intentional stylistic change . Some of his 1972 vocals sound EXACTLY like 76 Brian.  Also his vocals were raspier in 1976 than later, even when he was at his worst. There are demos floating around from the 80s and early 90s where he is singing like he did in the earlier days (although more nasily ).So some of that was damage, and some of it was a bit of a put on. 
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2015, 01:21:30 AM »

Everyone here is neglecting the most important factor to the sound of your voice: the resonators. I't's up to you the way you set your throat, palate and nose. It's totally mental. I can be a raspy barithone or a childish tenor depending on my state of mind. The more relaxed the resonators are, the better you will sound. And we know relaxing is not Brian's field
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 01:26:18 AM by felipe » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2015, 01:39:00 AM »

That is yet another factor
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« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2015, 02:03:07 AM »

Brian hung out with Nilsson in the mid-70s and did so much coke that he: 1) permanently damaged his singing voice  2) has no recollection of meeting John Lennon on (at least) two occasions.

That's some high grade toot...


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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2015, 06:09:57 AM »

Really glad you started this topic and I hope it leads to something concrete. 48 years of speculation and arguing about Smile is bad enough but this issue should not be so puzzling.

A lot of questions that this board constantly goes around in circles for have been answered many, many years ago if you do some digging into articles and books. Like Brian's voice change: he had laryngitis in 1975 and then again in 1979. Mystery solved. Wish I could remember where I had originally read this. It was probably on here. Though the 1979 instance was documented in an interview that's on YouTube. His voice between 1978 and 1980 is night and day, just like 1974 and 1976.
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Matt Bielewicz
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2015, 06:50:50 AM »

I can see why the speculation continues. Many people here seem to feel that if they find evidence of a dated, published, vintage interview from Brian where he talks about having laryngitis, that solves the question of what happened to his voice beyond all reasonable doubt. But we know that Brian has lied in interviews for decades. The ashes all of us have in our Wilson collections, which are of course all that remained of the SMiLE tapes after Brian burnt them, are evidence of that. Oh, wait...

..but of *course* that's true. He said that in I don't know how many interviews in the 70s and 80s... There are multiple well-documented statements to a variety of international media! But, of course... it was all bobbins, as my multi-disc SMiLE boxed set bears witness.

So it's not beyond our imaginations to conceive of a time in the 70s where Brian totalled his voice through smoking of all kinds, but told the media his new voice was down to laryngitis. It could also be that he felt his voice deteriorating, and decided to pass it off to the press and associates, maybe even to Marilyn and his fellow band members, not as the result of drug abuse of various kinds, but instead as a conscious choice, an effort to sound more manly. And of course, it's possible that he really DID feel insecure about his 60s falsetto and part of him DID want to 'man up' his voice a bit... and that just happened to fit well with what was happening to his voice anyway as a result of all the Bug Powder Dust he was snorting.

Under this scenario, all of the quotes we have from all of the people mentioned in this thread, all of the citations and rumoured statements from friends, ex-wives etc could all be the absolute truth - ie Brian really did say those were the reasons at that time. But it doesn't mean that some of them weren't designed to mislead, sanitised versions of reality that Brian felt were more media-friendly, half-truths cloaked in exaggeration or mistruths, or even outright lies.

We can't really say for sure. I can't see that arguing one version over another is 'the truth' because Brian said it in such-and-such a documented interview in the 70s brings any of us closer to the real truth. If we ever even get to that, which we might not...!

All we know is: Brian's voice changed. We also know he was abusing all sorts of substances during that period which are harmful to the range and clarity of the human voice. The balance of probabilities says to me that they were something to do with the big change. But whether there really was an underlying concious plan behind that, or whether it was just coincidence and the awful vocals on 15BO and Love You just happened to be recorded when he happened to have a couple of bad spells of laryngitis... I don't think we can say. You can tell from the way I phrase this that I think it's unlikely, but it's impossible to say for sure. Whether we have Brian documented on record in contemporary interviews backing up any of those explanations or not.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 07:31:14 AM by Matt Bielewicz » Logged
Paul J B
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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2015, 07:31:58 AM »

Really glad you started this topic and I hope it leads to something concrete. 48 years of speculation and arguing about Smile is bad enough but this issue should not be so puzzling.

A lot of questions that this board constantly goes around in circles for have been answered many, many years ago if you do some digging into articles and books. Like Brian's voice change: he had laryngitis in 1975 and then again in 1979. Mystery solved. Wish I could remember where I had originally read this. It was probably on here. Though the 1979 instance was documented in an interview that's on YouTube. His voice between 1978 and 1980 is night and day, just like 1974 and 1976.

Laryngitis alone? No way. A lot of what we hear in Brian's voice change sounds identical to the early to mid 80's Stevie Nicks vs. the late 70's Stevie Nicks. She was heavily into cocaine in the 80's. I think most would agree it was a combination of things that took a toll on his vocal chords. The PUZZLE for me was that he indeed did seem to almost intentionally "turn off" his falsetto. That never made sense to me. Brian's falsetto was one of the best natural sounds that a human being has ever, or likely ever will produce.  Listen to Wipe Out with the Fat Boys and the only thing that makes that song worth listening to is Brian coming very close to his old falsetto.

I agree with Matt that this is probably another one that will always leave us guessing.
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pixletwin
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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2015, 07:39:31 AM »

A lot of questions that this board constantly goes around in circles for have been answered many, many years ago if you do some digging into articles and books. Like Brian's voice change: he had laryngitis in 1975 and then again in 1979. Mystery solved. Wish I could remember where I had originally read this. It was probably on here. Though the 1979 instance was documented in an interview that's on YouTube. His voice between 1978 and 1980 is night and day, just like 1974 and 1976.

Wow. If you believe laryngitis is a cause (or even a major contributor) of Brian's change in vocals you must have stone ears or have never heard what a person with laryngitis sounds like.
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« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2015, 08:19:55 AM »

Really glad you started this topic and I hope it leads to something concrete. 48 years of speculation and arguing about Smile is bad enough but this issue should not be so puzzling.

A lot of questions that this board constantly goes around in circles for have been answered many, many years ago if you do some digging into articles and books. Like Brian's voice change: he had laryngitis in 1975 and then again in 1979. Mystery solved. Wish I could remember where I had originally read this. It was probably on here. Though the 1979 instance was documented in an interview that's on YouTube. His voice between 1978 and 1980 is night and day, just like 1974 and 1976.

You're just messin' with us, right? This board constantly goes around in circles about a couple of other issues, but not this one. With all due respect, please use some common sense. Laryngitis usually lasts a few days, not years. If it were laryngitis, Brian would have waited a few days for the laryngitis to go away, like a cold, before recording 15 Big Ones. And then a year later Beach Boys Love You? Naaaahhhhh
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« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2015, 08:25:13 AM »

On a semi-related note... when exactly did Brian's voice get slurry?  Is there a clear date when it suddenly changes, or was it gradual?  And the cause of it was... Landy's over-medication???
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« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2015, 08:40:20 AM »

On a semi-related note... when exactly did Brian's voice get slurry?  Is there a clear date when it suddenly changes, or was it gradual?  And the cause of it was... Landy's over-medication???

Great question. He's pretty slurry on the '85 album. Stevie from 81 doesn't have any slurring. There's a performance of God Only Knows from '82 where he doesn't slur (although its a very very lazy vocal). Must've been around '83. One could conclude it was the medication?

https://soundcloud.com/smilead/gok-82-brian-lead

« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 08:41:29 AM by seltaeb1012002 » Logged
seltaeb1012002
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« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2015, 08:50:28 AM »

Re: vocal change.

I'm thinking some / a lot of it could have been him being out of practice (on top of the smoking, coke, etc). I didn't sing for years, and when I tried again I sounded like an old man (in my early 20s). Fast forward a few years later, with constant practice, I sound pretty much like I did when I was 18.

This could partially explain why Brian sounds a lot better on MIU. He had a good year or two of being back on the grind.
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Loaf
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« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2015, 08:52:26 AM »

My impression is that Brian was unwell, physically and mentally, and purposefully changed his voice. Cigarettes and other substances, sure, but what about unknown things, like screaming? I picture a 1970s Brian screaming on purpose to shred his vocal cords, to roughen them up.

There are going to be things we just don't know about, but likely a combination of all of them.

It's still sad though, that he would feel that way. He had such a beautiful voice.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2015, 09:00:28 AM »

Anti anxiety meds can cause slurring. So can strokes. Natural aging. Brain damage. All sorts of things.
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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2015, 09:36:45 AM »

On a semi-related note... when exactly did Brian's voice get slurry?  Is there a clear date when it suddenly changes, or was it gradual?  And the cause of it was... Landy's over-medication???

Great question. He's pretty slurry on the '85 album. Stevie from 81 doesn't have any slurring. There's a performance of God Only Knows from '82 where he doesn't slur (although its a very very lazy vocal). Must've been around '83. One could conclude it was the medication?

https://soundcloud.com/smilead/gok-82-brian-lead



That vocal is better than Brian's performance of the same song at Long Beach in '81, which itself wasn't bad, especially compared to his disastrous (if brave) Don't Worry Baby falsetto from '81.
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pixletwin
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« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2015, 09:50:57 AM »

People are always citing that Don't Worry Baby performance from 1981 as an example of how bad his voice had gotten, but rarely do people mention how craftily he changes the melody to accommodate his voice once he decides the falsetto wasn't happening.
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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2015, 11:53:20 AM »

Brian's voice isn't bad in this key when singing I'm Bugged At My Old Man from '76.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nG5lujg3E8

But he was really rough with Back Home on the Mike Douglas Show.
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« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2015, 01:58:35 PM »

Still blows my mind that BW disliked his vox on "Let Him Run Wild" because he thought he sounded "like a girl."  Seems like an idea Murry might've put into his head (which is pure speculation on my part). 



 
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« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2015, 02:09:00 PM »

I think I found evidence of the exact moment when Brian's voice began to change:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyooALwfxO8
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relx
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« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2015, 02:36:11 PM »

People are always citing that Don't Worry Baby performance from 1981 as an example of how bad his voice had gotten, but rarely do people mention how craftily he changes the melody to accommodate his voice once he decides the falsetto wasn't happening.

Clips like that are more than Brian's voice sounding bad, its almost like he forgot how to sing, like he's some amateur belting out songs at open mike night at a dive bar.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2015, 03:00:17 PM »

Something I wrote about Brian's voice five years ago. It makes some points that I think are important in the context of this discussion, although I'm not sure I agree with them all anymore. The short version: Something seems to have gone awry in the early 80s.

----------

Brian has had roughly three voices in his career -- smooth 60s, gruff 70s and nuts 80s to now. And those first two voices had a lot in common. Brian's phrasing, for one. You could listen to BW in the mid-70s to the beginning of the 80s and know it was the same guy.

Example: On Jan. 14, 1981, Brian records Stevie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFUIn6HPqAk

This is not a healthy Brian Wilson. He's in the depths, although not hugely fat yet. But listen to the song. You can hear remnants of the classic voice in there. A tic he would later show live -- clipping notes at the end of phrases -- pops up, but slightly. He has that classic California "cool" sound that defines his vocals with the Beach Boys.

Just two years later (and now under the care of Landy), Brian goes into the studio to record three demos. Black Widow, Little Children and In the Nighttime. You can listen to the 83 version of Little Children here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J4tsTgQIKk

He's healthier. He's recording and touring. But something is off. The voice has changed -- it no longer sounds like the Brian Wilson of the '60s or the '70s or even two years prior. This is a version of the Brian Wilson voice we came to know through the 80s and 90s: Shouty, unhinged, with phrasing that seems off -- something has gone wrong. And it doesn't have to do with tone (which is pretty much the same) or range (which is likewise pretty unaffected).

This is just two years later. Two. Years.

It sounds -- to me -- like someone who doesn't quite know how to sing. During those two years, in some way, something happened to Brian. His voice has never been the same since. I would bet on drug-induced brain damage or a mini-stroke (and people who have mini-strokes don't often recognize that they've had them).

I don't think Brian realized that anything had happened. He didn't appear to struggle with his new voice, or act angry that anything had changed. I think he may have come to realize during his solo album that his voice was less expressive -- he talked a couple of times about how people think he "sabotaged" his performances on the album.

But it took until 1998, with Imagination, for someone to seriously sit down with Brian and deal with the vocals. And I think Joe Thomas deserves tremendous credit for making Brian sound -- well -- human again. It wasn't the double tracking. It wasn't the autotune. It was getting Brian to focus on phrasing and breath control.

This slow re-education has continued. Darian worked closely with Brian on his Smile leads. Melinda (I assume) brought in vocal coaches. And in TLOS and the Gershwin project, I think we finally have a Brian Wilson who is phrasing like a professional singer -- again.

He sounds like a professional version of his 80s voice, though. He can summon the BBs sound now and again, but he sounds like a different guy. Which, in many ways, he is.

Did Brian ever take vocal lessons before he first started to sing, back in the early sixties? Did he ever have a vocal coach during the prime of his vocals?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 03:01:55 PM by Wirestone » Logged
relx
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« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2015, 03:22:13 PM »

Well said as usual, Wirestone. It really sounds like something neurological happened to Brian in the early 1980s, which was permanent. To a lesser degree, it is similar to what happened to Jan Berry, who we know suffered brain damage in his car crash in 1966. Post accident, Jan's voice was never the same, and you could always hear the neurological damage when he sang. (Jan's post accident voice also got worse in the early 1980s, following a period when he was doing cocaine.)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 08:12:26 PM by relx » Logged
Lee Marshall
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« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2015, 05:32:16 PM »

The shouting thing could be something as simple as a hearing issue...as is the case with some older folks when the hearing starts to go.  Brian's had issues for...well pretty much since he was a kid.  But if it got worse...or changed...he might not even have realized that he was shouting.  He certainly did while just talking.  That seems to have subsided by degrees over these past 10 years.

Just sayin'.  Anyway in terms of singing...He sure sounds  better now than he did 15ish years ago.
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