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Author Topic: My Witness  (Read 12094 times)
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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2015, 10:39:18 AM »

I don't usually come out of the woodwork to post here, but I feel the need to say something about this ridiculously hate-filled original post. Talk about an agenda. I'm certainly not anti-Brian Wilson. In fact, he is my all time musical hero. But speaking as a professional recording engineer, those who have correctly observed the heavy use of tuning software (be it Autotune or Melodyne) on the Brian Wilson/Joe Thomas productions of recent years are not pushing a political agenda. They are accurately using their ears and observing a simple sonic fact. Whether or not you like it, heavy tuning went into the making of these records. To dispute that claim only reveals your unsophisticated listening abilities and lack of knowledge about contemporary recording technology. Okay, I'm out.


What an all encompassing self-indignant statement oh wise one! But far be it from me to disagree - after all you're a recording engineer.

Oddly enough, your recording of Hop, Skip & Jump sounds like it was recorded at the bottom of a trash can. But I don't know anything. I've just recorded with Guided by Voices, Cobra Verde, Death of Samantha and many more.

Heaven forbid if a 72 year old man wants to make a contemporary sounding record that sounds with the times (as opposed to a lo-fi exercise for PBR swilling hipsters).

Ok, leaving out your hilariously unwarranted personal attack against a recording I did in my bedroom when I was still a teenager , and leaving out the debate over the quality of NPP which i did not address in my post - is it seriously your professional opinion that there isn't readily audible pitch correction artifacting all over these records? I am sick of posters with perfectly functional ears getting bullied for using them.
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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2015, 11:06:50 AM »

And if whether or not you like some manicured studio crap he put out at the age of 72 determines whether or not you're a true Brian Wilson fan, well that's ridiculous.

Your words, not mine. Look...there's no litmus test here, there's no secret handshake, there's no group think going on. Obviously the record sounds clean and polished (ie: compression, occasional pitch correction), but the overall result is a solid testament that ranks amongst his best solo stuff. My opinion, not yours...but calling it 'manicured studio crap' is just agenda driven. Yeah, the A-word. AGENDA.

I dig NPP. Total ear-worm, man. Total ear-worm. Like it a lot.

Thanks Howard. Not gonna take it anymore, indeed.
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« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2015, 11:20:39 AM »

And if whether or not you like some manicured studio crap he put out at the age of 72 determines whether or not you're a true Brian Wilson fan, well that's ridiculous.

Your words, not mine. Look...there's no litmus test here, there's no secret handshake, there's no group think going on. Obviously the record sounds clean and polished (ie: compression, occasional pitch correction), but the overall result is a solid testament that ranks amongst his best solo stuff. My opinion, not yours...but calling it 'manicured studio crap' is just agenda driven. Yeah, the A-word. AGENDA.

I dig NPP. Total ear-worm, man. Total ear-worm. Like it a lot.

Thanks Howard. Not gonna take it anymore, indeed.

 Beer Beer
Please no more of the 'a' word; my doctor tells me I have the liver of a 70 year old (or Dennis Wilson).
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« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2015, 01:15:48 PM »

Count me in as someone who is mad as hell and is not going to take it anymore.

Some of you guys expect Brian to be absolutely perfect. You expect him to wave his hands and and see Pet Sounds part II dropped on your laps. If it's not Pet Sounds part II you end up picking apart every little thing like vultures on roadkill. And/or, you're in the camp who can't say one good thing about the man - who calls Brian's management "handlers". One of you said he is controlled by prescription medication (Oh wait, that was Mike Love). Another person said Joe should commit suicide - and this person also said Joe was worse than Landy (and I'll keep bringing this example up as long as people keep denying an agenda). One of you claimed Brian has no chance of getting on the radio anymore. Some of you say his songwriting is subpar anymore. One of you guys were decrying autotune before you even heard the song!...(whoops, that was Mike Love again). Another person claimed Brian doesn't have it in him to write great songs anymore. One of you recently took a passive aggressive swipe at Brian's current singing voice (oh, that's Mike Love yet again....whatever happened to Mr. Positivity, Mike?).

Yeah, there's no agenda going on. Just individual opinions and constructive criticism from people who truly love Brian Wilson and his music....for those who are too sensitive to hear words like "agenda", keep believing this. For me, this has nothing to do with people disliking the album, or hearing pitch correction, or disliking the production. Hell, there are things I don't like about the album and have made them known. This has to do with the bullshit that has been going on here for far too long - this constant negativity regarding nearly everything in Brian's solo career from certain posters. It's just monotonous and tiresome.
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« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2015, 01:17:40 PM »

Beer Beer Beer

I'm starting to like this "agenda" Beer game Grin

Drinking Buddies
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"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

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« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2015, 01:27:03 PM »

The one thing I'll say about that is that saying Brian's new music has no chance of getting on the radio is more of a knock at the radio, not at Brian Wilson. 

Modern FM radio is pretty pathetic here in 2015.  Very few legacy artists can sneak a new song onto a playlist.  Even with the help of a Top 40 voice like Nate Reuss. 

Some freeform or college radio stations might give it a spin.  But corporations control most of the airwaves. 

But, Brian made it to #14 on the album charts without the benefit of radio airplay.  That speaks to the loyalty of his fans.  And to the fact that, over 50 years later, the man is still putting out a quality product. 

Will we ever get another Today, Pet Sounds, or Sunflower?  Who cares?  If we get another That Lucky Old Sun or No Pier Pressure, I'll be happy.   
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« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2015, 02:11:04 PM »

This has to do with the bullshit that has been going on here for far too long - this constant negativity regarding nearly everything in Brian's solo career from certain posters. It's just monotonous and tiresome.

I don't post on every thread (far from it) but I definitely support Free Speech. One should be allowed to voice their opinions as long as it's within the board's boundaries. I believe a lot of posters here post within the rules and boundaries. The unfortunate part is when opinions, albeit negative, are poo-poo'd and ridiculed and squelched. Now THAT is the real problem here, don'tcha think?? So much for objectivity and subjectivity and constructive criticism.

Now. I've read this a few times about some people who consistently post negative stuff here about Brian and his music and career. I would LOVE to see these people listed (yes, names) that repeatedly post negatively about Brian. I just don't see it here. I'd really like to see this list of names that they are talking about!!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 02:58:48 PM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2015, 03:31:21 PM »

Am I the only one that thinks the OP was being completely satirical?
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« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2015, 09:31:12 PM »

I don’t have to tell you things have gotten bad on SmileySmile.com. Everyone knows things are bad. Everybody feels the difference in tone on the board, or they feel scared of being screamed at and piled on by the same six or eight Kokotrolls who are running wild and who come out simultaneously as they are dominating the board with their anti-BW agenda whenever there is a positive thread. We know that their rants are completely unfit in relation to reality and even more unfit to read, and yet we sit there and absorb it day in and day out, as if that’s the way it’s supposed to be. We know things are bad...they are worse than bad, they are crazy. It’s depressing. Anyone sane here wants to have decent intelligent discussions about The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson, but a small group of zealots from the state of KokoDopia have intentionally hijacked this board and continually clog up threads with a specific agenda: delegitimize anything and everything related to Brian Wilson. There is nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do about it and there's no end to it.

Now I don't know what to tell you on what to do about the Vibe Room police who patrol and troll these threads, you know who they are, I don’t have to point them out to you. Then you sit in front of your computer screens, thinking of playing with your PS4s, while some uninformed self- anointed expert rants about phantom Autotune, vocal processing and Joe Thomas as if it were all fact and the way it’s supposed to be instead of what it really is: just a cavalcade of wankers with an agenda and on a mission, who know as much about the recording process as they do about fornicating. But some of you just sit there and accept this garbage and say nothing.  It's almost as if you are asking them to just, please, let me have my iPad , my iPhone, my PS4 and my computer and I won’t say anything, just please let us have our little space to listen to and enjoy No Pier Pressure in peace and leave us alone.

Well I'm not going to leave you alone, I want you to get MAD. I don’t want you to protest about the board, I don’t want you to write to the moderators because I wouldn’t know what to tell you to write. I don’t know what to do about the "neutral" board historian who will not admit publicly he is solidly in Mike Love’s camp, who will not admit publicly he is working with Mike Love on his book, who has already tried to rewrite Beach Boys history on this board, to tailor it to this fictional alternate KokoDopian reality, who tries and has succeeded in getting members who he vehemently disagrees with banned - someone who bullies anyone who doesn't bend the knee off of the board. I don’t know what to tell you about all the lies and spin like the firing of Randell Kirsch, like the Love termination of C50, the phantom Autotune and all the other fabrications of the Vibe Room police, all I know is first YOU’VE GOT TO GET MAD. You have to say "I am a knowledgeable, serious fan, Gosh Darn it, my opinion has value." This band and it’s creative force Brian Wilson have meaning. The legacy of the greatest band in American history should not be cheerleaders, Stamos, Pisces Brothers and wheeennnnnn.
One original member and a replacement of an original member do not constitute The Beach Boys.

So: I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs.  I want you to get up right now, grab your copy of Summer in Paradise, and go to the window, open it, throw it out, then stick your head out, and yell  "I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE."  I want you to get up right now, get up, go to your windows, open them, stick your head out, toss out your copy of Summer in Paradise and yell "I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE." Then we’ll figure out what to do about the Vibe Room Cops and the spin control and the former neutral board historian trying to rewrite Beach Boys history. Things have got to change but first YOU’VE GOT TO GET MAD. You have to say I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE. Keep yelling it, don’t stop.  I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE.  Go to your computers, login to your accounts, go to the message board and post: I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!


It's a good thing that I am on smileysmile.net, and not smileysmile.com. I certainly don't want to be bias! And considering all of the anti Mike Love boards around, it amazes me that anyone would come here and complain because it isn't purely anti Mike. And from what I can tell, the mods deal with people that are insulting to others. I don't think anyone gets banned because of their opinion about the music or ones distaste for actions, philosophies, polotics of a Beach Boy. It's when there are personal attacks that the mods react. Which helps keep this a functioning board.
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« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2015, 10:02:42 PM »

Count me in as someone who is mad as hell and is not going to take it anymore.

Some of you guys expect Brian to be absolutely perfect. You expect him to wave his hands and and see Pet Sounds part II dropped on your laps. If it's not Pet Sounds part II you end up picking apart every little thing like vultures on roadkill. And/or, you're in the camp who can't say one good thing about the man - who calls Brian's management "handlers". One of you said he is controlled by prescription medication (Oh wait, that was Mike Love). Another person said Joe should commit suicide - and this person also said Joe was worse than Landy (and I'll keep bringing this example up as long as people keep denying an agenda). One of you claimed Brian has no chance of getting on the radio anymore. Some of you say his songwriting is subpar anymore. One of you guys were decrying autotune before you even heard the song!...(whoops, that was Mike Love again). Another person claimed Brian doesn't have it in him to write great songs anymore. One of you recently took a passive aggressive swipe at Brian's current singing voice (oh, that's Mike Love yet again....whatever happened to Mr. Positivity, Mike?).

Yeah, there's no agenda going on. Just individual opinions and constructive criticism from people who truly love Brian Wilson and his music....for those who are too sensitive to hear words like "agenda", keep believing this. For me, this has nothing to do with people disliking the album, or hearing pitch correction, or disliking the production. Hell, there are things I don't like about the album and have made them known. This has to do with the bullshit that has been going on here for far too long - this constant negativity regarding nearly everything in Brian's solo career from certain posters. It's just monotonous and tiresome.

Great post!
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« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2015, 10:53:54 PM »

Am I the only one that thinks the OP was being completely satirical?

Two.
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« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2015, 11:13:39 PM »

Three
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« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2015, 11:20:54 PM »

Four (can I have a little more?).
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« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2015, 10:08:27 AM »

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« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2015, 10:29:30 AM »

Nice!




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« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2015, 10:43:37 AM »

Someone has lots of spare time on their hands it seems...
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« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2015, 11:33:06 AM »

.... I'm certainly not anti-Brian Wilson. In fact, he is my all time musical hero. But speaking as a professional recording engineer, those who have correctly observed the heavy use of tuning software (be it Autotune or Melodyne) on the Brian Wilson/Joe Thomas productions of recent years are not pushing a political agenda. They are accurately using their ears and observing a simple sonic fact. Whether or not you like it, heavy tuning went into the making of these records. To dispute that claim only reveals your unsophisticated listening abilities and lack of knowledge about contemporary recording technology... 
And if whether or not you like some manicured studio crap he put out at the age of 72 determines whether or not you're a true Brian Wilson fan, well that's ridiculous.

When I was in high school, a friend and I would argue about which of us was a bigger fan of the Beach Boys. For example, he claimed that I wasn't a "true fan" because I didn't remember ever hearing "The Little Girl I Once Knew" on the radio.

The thing is, we knew it was a silly discussion. We were both very big fans, so arguing about who was the bigger fan was just a way to mess with each other and have some fun.

At this point, I don't even know what it means to be a "true Brian Wilson fan". Does it mean that you're a "real fanatic", to the point that you love everything he's ever done?  Or does it merely mean that you have a deep and abiding appreciation of most of his work? Whatever it means, the question whether anyone is a true fan or not isn't worth arguing about.

Nevertheless, I think there's something odd about calling NPP "a manicured piece of crap" while implying that you're a "true Brian Wilson" fan. The only way I can make sense of those two propositions is to assume that the speaker believes NPP is remarkably uncharacteristic of Brian's work. If Brian Wilson is your musical hero, you can say that NPP completely sucks so long as you don't think NPP is representative of what Brian Wilson does.

For example, maybe you think Brian's solo albums have been mostly lame, but you love what he did in the 60s or 70s. In that case, it would make more sense to say you're a big fan of Brian's early work instead of saying you're a big fan, period. Or maybe you love Brian's early work and most of his solo albums, but hate everything he's done with Joe Thomas -- thereby implying that Imagination and NPP are aberrations in Brian's otherwise excellent career.

The question I'm left with, however, is why people think NPP is such an aberration. Putting aside BWPS as a special case, does NPP really sound so different from the albums Brian has been making for the past 27 years, i.e. since Brian Wilson was released? My ears are old and unsophisticated, but I don't hear a very big difference, certainly not a difference that puts it in the "crap" category.

Unfortunately, how NPP sounds to each of us isn't something we can share. We could have observed how the album was produced, but we can't observe or perceive what other people hear. (Which in this case is lucky for me, because I love how NPP sounds, with one or two minor exceptions.)
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« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2015, 11:43:32 AM »

Larry,

Personally, I think NPP stands up well with the rest of Brian's solo catalog. 

I also think it stands up very well with his material over the last ten years, particularly That Lucky Old Sun and The Beach Boys TWGMTR. 

I think comparing his solo material with the golden age of The Beach Boys is extremely unfair.  But, fans of classic artists sometimes have a tendency to do that. 

I remember when The Who released Endless Wire in 2006, their first album since 1982.  Personally, I thought it was their best album since Quadrophenia.  But I remember talking with a fellow Who fan who was disappointed because there was nothing on it like Won't Get Fooled Again. 

Same situation here.  It's impossible to compare music made by artists so many years apart. 
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« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2015, 01:15:17 PM »

It's fine to compare music made by an artist in different eras (which I don't think you're denying), so long as we don't insist that the new stuff be like the old stuff. I'm sure some of the lukewarm or poor NPP reviews resulted from Brian being held to a higher standard than most other artists (the ones who aren't considered icons of 20th century popular music).

Anyway, I love the early Who, never really warmed up to Tommy or Live at Leeds, and never listen to anything after that. So I'm a true fan of the early Who.  Smiley
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 01:31:26 PM by Larry Franz » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2015, 02:14:00 PM »

I think in the spirit of Good Vibrations, Mike should incorporate that image into UK shows as a little thank you to this fine community and it's if nothing else, comprehensively bearded Sith master. Then he should poach falsettos from three more bands and form poached falsetto Voltron, which will help make Endless Summer possible in sweet syncopated harmony.  

Other than that, hey "Network" kinda came true didn't it?



« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 02:17:28 PM by ontor pertawst » Logged
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« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2015, 02:18:00 PM »



Most excellent in what this "says".
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« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2015, 02:36:19 PM »

Howard, I am mad as hell! (Network is a great movie)
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2015, 05:40:05 PM »

I like a good Network reference as much as the next person but this was pretty weak.

YOU WILL ATONE!
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« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2015, 07:08:23 PM »

Well Howard, that was a wonderful experience.  When I yelled out the window I scared off some of those geese who've been crapping on my deck lately.  It was a dual-purpose catharsis, as it turns out.
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« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2015, 08:35:00 PM »

I think in the spirit of Good Vibrations, Mike should incorporate that image into UK shows as a little thank you to this fine community and it's if nothing else, comprehensively bearded Sith master. Then he should poach falsettos from three more bands and form poached falsetto Voltron, which will help make Endless Summer possible in sweet syncopated harmony.  

Other than that, hey "Network" kinda came true didn't it?






Poach falsettos? I'm imaging the Lovester in an Elmer Fudd costume sitting out in the marsh.....


Let's be serious for a moment: Did Mike run onto Brian's tour bus and snatch Foskett and Eichenberg in the middle of the night? NO. I doubt anyone exactly twisted their arm either.....
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