Brian August 1967 interview

[guitarfool2002]

If Brian was just fine and dandy with being at the helm of a group that he now considered 'square' (rather than the object of his greatest aspirations), why take his name off the producer's credit when we know he still did the producing for Smiley Smile?    

Couldn't it show more solidarity with the group? These interviews show he wasn't distancing himself from the group or the majority of responsibility for the group's creative output and this just as Smiley Smile is finished and about to be released and after the SMiLE period when he "didn't put out anything I don’t respect".

I'm gonna say that I don't really disagree with you on this.

However, where does this fit in...?

Let´s not forget IJWMFTT documentary where Marilyn Wilson states something like: "The guys just wore Brian down.." , and "If you think you can do better, let´s see it"..
Well we saw it..although there were some bright moments during late 60s nad early 70s...

I'm familiar but what is the whole quote?

I don't know. And I have zero interest in pulling out the DVD that has the I Just Wasn't Made For These Times documentary on it. However, Marilyn basically says that at some point (implied to probably be around the time after SMiLE) Brian basically said "you know what? You guys think you can do better? Well have at it!"

And sure, I know you'll say, "well, he himself never said it, it was just his wife at the time."

And maybe you're right. Maybe you know late '60s Brian then his own (then) wife. Now I'll say, I don't think Brian's giving up the control of the group was all about that whole "let's see if you guys can do better" thing. I think some of it was just being a little burnt out producing so much material, a little watching The Beatles more "democrat" approach working so well, and probably some other factors.

However, the fact that you chose to ignore Nile's post shows that perhaps Marilyn's assertions didn't really fit in with how you think things happened back then.

OK............?  Well maybe Nile will post up the whole quote. 

I think Mr. Desper has said (and it is archived on a board somewhere) something like there was no takeover or abandonment, he thought it was more a recognition or necessity that others in the group had skills to be used.

It did reach a point in the late 60's where for reasons other than necessity Brian's ideas for the band were being pushed to the back burner more than ever before, and the notion I got was that they thought they could do just as well if not better making records with less and less input and even musical contributions from Brian Wilson. The proof is in both the released material and the unreleased music that never got out of the vaults, especially from the 1969-20/20 era when they were moving from Capitol to Warner/Reprise.

Yet it's also very telling as well that one of the main conditions of the new Warner/Reprise contract had a stipulation for how much Brian would be involved in making the music. It sort of contradicts how much the Beach Boys thought they could do without Brian's musical involvement and ideas versus what a record company thought could be done without Brian's involvement on a Beach Boys project, and what eventually came out on record. Sunflower without the songwriting of Brian and Dennis - what else would there have been?  No matter how much the group thought they could do without Brian or with far less involvement to the point of openly vetoing ideas and whatnot, they wouldn't have had much to offer at that time without him. Warner/Reprise seemed to recognize this.

[Cam Mott]

Here's what I was thinking of, I think. Hope it is OK to post here.

By Cam Mott (Cam) on Thursday, February 7, 2002 - 10:06 am:
I'm hoping the board is fixed and I just wanted to re-posted my question about the Beach Boys and production.

If I remember right you had said that others, primarily Carl, were taking over those duties and described the process as the musical content being ripped from Brian's control. I hope I'm stating the gist accurately.

I remarked that some had the impression that Brian had requested that others take over those responsibilities and queried if the take over was actually more "hostile" then thought.

Thanks for the memories, when you have time.

Cam
By Stephenwdesper (Stephenwdesper) on Thursday, February 7, 2002 - 08:53 pm:

There has never been any “hostile” relationship between Carl and Brian Wilson. I cannot remember Brian showing anger at any time I have known him. Everyone who was ever associated with Carl came to know his demeanor as angelic.

To put things in perspective, always remember that everything you hear or read about any musical group, including the Beach Boys, must be taking within the framework of THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS. Every band member has a contract with (in BB case) Capitol Records. Also, the group collectively is under contract. Also, the group’s enterprise, Beach Boy Productions is under contract with each band member and with Capitol Records.

Of course, Brian worked closely with all the other members of The Beach Boys, however it was becoming very evident to him and to Capitol that he was not the only gifted one in the group. As each member composed and produced within the group, only two ways were available for this new material to be released and to generate income for the group, that being ether solo or group. Capitol would have nothing of each member going off to do their own stuff so the outlet for the new stuff was distend to be the group.

Capitol repeatedly saw two pathways developing. (1) Brian becoming experimental in the studio and his music taking an esoteric turn (that is out commercial acceptance), and (2) talent (good talent) developing within the group – already under contract to produce and perform.

Management, both Capitol and BBP, were advancing much money to the group’s members and this “loan” had to be repaid – it was in the contract. So, to answer your question Cam Mott, think of Carl’s takeover not as “hostile” but rather by necessity, and out of love for his brother, who was sluffing and staggering under the tremendous pressure of producing a new hit. Someone had to get a contractually required album recorded – or else go broke. If Brian was mentally spent, it seemed natural for the younger brother just step up to the plate and start to play ball. What could Brian say but good? Brian welcomed the help and certainly needed a pressure reduction just to get re-focused. Thank God, both brothers’ close association with Brian had familiarized them with his style and the task at hand.

If Carl had not assumed the role of leader at this time, you would not have seen any Beach Boy future develop. Capitol wanted its (already paid for) album – quick, somebody do something! – Carl did, and everyone was grateful.

I hope the above helps set the stage of understanding for you.
~Stephen W. Desper


By Cam Mott (Cam) on Friday, February 8, 2002 - 09:48 am:
Dear Stephen,

Thanks for your reply. I didn't think there was hostility between Brian and Carl and I'm glad to have it confirmed. We often hear that others in the group supposedly *were* working to take "control" from Brian during this period, would you be comfortable in illuminating those rumors?

I was lucky enough to have met Jim Lockert last Fall, he remembered your acquaintance and spoke kindly of you. I'm sorry to tell you, if you didn't already know, that Jim passed away just before Thanksgiving last year but is survived by his wife.

Thanks,
Cam

By Stephenwdesper (Stephenwdesper) on Saturday, February 9, 2002 - 11:35 am:
REPLY CAM MOTT's COMMENTS: No hostal nor friendly take-over of the musical aspect of BB was ever planned. In hindsight it may seem that control was "taken" from Brian, but it was not taken, it was assumed. It was a natural thing, given the events of the time. On the business level, Brian gave control (as chairman of the board of American Productions and Beach Boy Enterprises) over to professional managers. This was necessary to maintain financial success for the group. All the in-fighting you read about happens with most musical acts and even between business type partners too. It's just part of life. ~Stephen W. Desper

[Nile]

If Brian was just fine and dandy with being at the helm of a group that he now considered 'square' (rather than the object of his greatest aspirations), why take his name off the producer's credit when we know he still did the producing for Smiley Smile?    

Couldn't it show more solidarity with the group? These interviews show he wasn't distancing himself from the group or the majority of responsibility for the group's creative output and this just as Smiley Smile is finished and about to be released and after the SMiLE period when he "didn't put out anything I don’t respect".

I'm gonna say that I don't really disagree with you on this.

However, where does this fit in...?

Let´s not forget IJWMFTT documentary where Marilyn Wilson states something like: "The guys just wore Brian down.." , and "If you think you can do better, let´s see it"..
Well we saw it..although there were some bright moments during late 60s nad early 70s...

I'm familiar but what is the whole quote?

I don't know. And I have zero interest in pulling out the DVD that has the I Just Wasn't Made For These Times documentary on it. However, Marilyn basically says that at some point (implied to probably be around the time after SMiLE) Brian basically said "you know what? You guys think you can do better? Well have at it!"

Sorry guys bur cannot find my dvd, but that is what MW said in that documentary, and it looked pretty honest, no corporate bullshit..just looked honest..
and I think that Brian maybe never said those words but I strongly feel that was his view of the whole post Smile situation, when Boys rejected his greatest work, or should I say made him give up on it..got tired of conflicts like Anderle said in that two-piece lengthy interview that can be found in Priroe LLVS.

[Nile]

Just one correction..that what she said , maybe not in those exatly word, but that was basically that..

[Cam Mott]

... I strongly feel that was his view of the whole post Smile situation, when Boys rejected his greatest work, or should I say made him give up on it..got tired of conflicts like Anderle said in that two-piece lengthy interview that can be found in Priroe LLVS.

Well, pull up a chair and get comfortable.........(deeeeeeeeeeep breath)..................

[Rocket]

So I am wondering if that discontent wasn't already evident in that interview. In the 1993 documentary with don was he said the beach boys wanted to make different music from him and that it created a rift

I got sidetracked with the GV stuff, but this is what I also picked up in the interview and wanted to discuss a bit more.

I'd take it a step further and suggest we not only could detect some of the discontent in the interview, but we could all but see (and hear) it play out in the events of Fall 1967, in other words the 2-3 months of Brian's music-making activities that immediately followed this interview.

A sampling of some things he recorded or worked on that we have proof of via recordings and session sheets Fall '67: Cool Cool Water, Been Way Too Long, Darlin (Redwood), Time To Get Alone (Redwood), Surf's Up (solo Brian performance).

Of those particular 5 tracks, 4 of them have either direct Smile roots or a direct and unmistakeable Smile-era influence in sound or construction. Darlin was targeted for Danny Hutton.

After the Hawaii re-rerecords, a new Beach Boys single was needed. Thus, "Wild Honey" was recorded as the first major post-Hawaii song project that fall. R&B sound, "home studio" vibe with that piano, but the main hook was a Theremin - that was no coincidence. This was a single, go back to GV for another Theremin-based hook right out of the gate.

But after that, I'd argue the most musically complex recording and the song/session requiring the most effort from Brian as writer-producer-arranger was "Time To Get Alone", what I still consider one of the highlights of his entire career. There were the little sonic nods to Smile, like the discordant string arrangement that went from bizarre sweeps and whines to beautiful cohesion in the same section of music. A triumphant song and section featuring orchestral overdubs, and the usual "Brian chords" that made it unique. And a polished studio sound that didn't have the home-brew vibe that marked anything the Beach Boys released in the latter half of 1967.

It was "studio Brian" again, for lack of a better description, going for full arrangements and a developed, high-fidelity production, only it wasn't done for or with the Beach Boys.

Then it eventually turned into a debacle as The Beach Boys did not want Brian working with Redwood, they wanted him to produce their next album.

What exactly was that next album? Originally it was going to cull live tracks recorded in '66 and '67 (notably Hawaii which was re-recorded as soon as they got home from Hawaii), and have those live tracks mixed in with the new stuff. But wasn't that sort of a half-assed concept in some ways? Beach Boys old hits recorded (or re-recorded) 'live' padding the album of new material. A compromise? A masterplan all along? Topic for debate. But either way, that original concept of tacking on live material from several shows in the vaults shows perhaps less effort and enthusiasm than the few minutes of beauty and musical sophistication on a track like Time To Get Alone.

That was where Brian's efforts were focused, it would seem. That was, again, "studio Brian" doing up a full production rather than cutting corners, or delivering half-songs with more sparse band backing as heard on most of Wild Honey.

I'm glad they eventually scrapped the live-studio hybrid plan for Wild Honey, but doesn't it show you where the enthusiasm may have been to compare even Time To Get Alone to that original concept of Wild Honey to include vault material?

And take into consideration that solo recording of Surf's Up. One of the most poignant recordings I've ever heard, a total mind-blower...but where did that come from emotionally, practically, and even in the sense of what was it going to be used for if anything? That's Brian, Fall '67, revisiting the centerpiece of his scrapped masterpiece, as the Beach Boys were doing the white R&B sound, which no coincidence Brian also suggested as a new direction, according to Carl.

Surf's Up and Time To Get Alone on one side, and what become Wild Honey on the other...can't you see and hear a musician split between two worlds and two different musical outlooks as of Fall 1967?

Then factor in Been Way Too Long, Cool Cool Water - Those are from Smile, both of them. Maybe not in name, not in exact form and song structure, but those are Smile ideas getting recorded in Fall '67. Hardly R&B, hardly the "Wild Honey sound" if you will.

Factor in Darlin. This was a hit, a catchy hit with a mean hook and killer groove, reshaping and streamlining and earlier composition which was also given to an outside artist into something for Brian's pal Danny to sing with his group. It had that undefinable "oomph" that sounded more like a hit record than I'd suggest even Wild Honey. Grooved like a motherfucker, didn't it? And it was Brian doing a tune for another "outside" artist.

I'd say all of the above 5 examples I cited could be Brian making music for Brian. There is such a divide, to my ears at least, between those and what he was doing for the Beach Boys. Sometimes the two would intersect and produce terrific results, like Let The Wind Blow, Country Air...hints of "studio Brian" again. But still lacking the icing on top of the cake that I hear in TTGA or Darlin, or the Smile-era quirkiness in CCW and BWTL.

I hear the discontent coming to fruition in those recordings. Not only did Brian hint at it in the Aug '67 interview, but I think he also put it onto tape in the studio via those tracks and perhaps a few others that sound worlds away from what the Beach Boys were doing in Fall '67, song wise, which we'd hear on Wild Honey.

It's a musician torn between making music for himself and making music with and for his band. Not hard to tell which is which just by listening.

Sorry to nitpick such a great post, but - Didn't Carl produce TTGA?

[Lonely Summer]

I have never really bought the line that the Beach Boys rejected what Brian was doing with SMiLE. It's true that Mike had some objections to the lyrics Van Dyke Parks wrote; the Lovester himself has said that he had no objections to progressing musically; Carl said in the IJWMFTT film that Mike did not find the lyrics relatable. And yet the guys sang those weird lyrics, as we can clearly hear on TSS. Now, i do think one valid objection they may have possibly had is that, if the music came out and was popular, how were the 5 guys going to replicate that onstage? In the end, i don't think Brian or the others should have worried themselves about whether the music was going to be 'hip' or not; I mean, just exactly WHAT IS HIP? Tell me, tell me, if you think you know.  

[guitarfool2002]

So I am wondering if that discontent wasn't already evident in that interview. In the 1993 documentary with don was he said the beach boys wanted to make different music from him and that it created a rift

I got sidetracked with the GV stuff, but this is what I also picked up in the interview and wanted to discuss a bit more.

I'd take it a step further and suggest we not only could detect some of the discontent in the interview, but we could all but see (and hear) it play out in the events of Fall 1967, in other words the 2-3 months of Brian's music-making activities that immediately followed this interview.

A sampling of some things he recorded or worked on that we have proof of via recordings and session sheets Fall '67: Cool Cool Water, Been Way Too Long, Darlin (Redwood), Time To Get Alone (Redwood), Surf's Up (solo Brian performance).

Of those particular 5 tracks, 4 of them have either direct Smile roots or a direct and unmistakeable Smile-era influence in sound or construction. Darlin was targeted for Danny Hutton.

After the Hawaii re-rerecords, a new Beach Boys single was needed. Thus, "Wild Honey" was recorded as the first major post-Hawaii song project that fall. R&B sound, "home studio" vibe with that piano, but the main hook was a Theremin - that was no coincidence. This was a single, go back to GV for another Theremin-based hook right out of the gate.

But after that, I'd argue the most musically complex recording and the song/session requiring the most effort from Brian as writer-producer-arranger was "Time To Get Alone", what I still consider one of the highlights of his entire career. There were the little sonic nods to Smile, like the discordant string arrangement that went from bizarre sweeps and whines to beautiful cohesion in the same section of music. A triumphant song and section featuring orchestral overdubs, and the usual "Brian chords" that made it unique. And a polished studio sound that didn't have the home-brew vibe that marked anything the Beach Boys released in the latter half of 1967.

It was "studio Brian" again, for lack of a better description, going for full arrangements and a developed, high-fidelity production, only it wasn't done for or with the Beach Boys.

Then it eventually turned into a debacle as The Beach Boys did not want Brian working with Redwood, they wanted him to produce their next album.

What exactly was that next album? Originally it was going to cull live tracks recorded in '66 and '67 (notably Hawaii which was re-recorded as soon as they got home from Hawaii), and have those live tracks mixed in with the new stuff. But wasn't that sort of a half-assed concept in some ways? Beach Boys old hits recorded (or re-recorded) 'live' padding the album of new material. A compromise? A masterplan all along? Topic for debate. But either way, that original concept of tacking on live material from several shows in the vaults shows perhaps less effort and enthusiasm than the few minutes of beauty and musical sophistication on a track like Time To Get Alone.

That was where Brian's efforts were focused, it would seem. That was, again, "studio Brian" doing up a full production rather than cutting corners, or delivering half-songs with more sparse band backing as heard on most of Wild Honey.

I'm glad they eventually scrapped the live-studio hybrid plan for Wild Honey, but doesn't it show you where the enthusiasm may have been to compare even Time To Get Alone to that original concept of Wild Honey to include vault material?

And take into consideration that solo recording of Surf's Up. One of the most poignant recordings I've ever heard, a total mind-blower...but where did that come from emotionally, practically, and even in the sense of what was it going to be used for if anything? That's Brian, Fall '67, revisiting the centerpiece of his scrapped masterpiece, as the Beach Boys were doing the white R&B sound, which no coincidence Brian also suggested as a new direction, according to Carl.

Surf's Up and Time To Get Alone on one side, and what become Wild Honey on the other...can't you see and hear a musician split between two worlds and two different musical outlooks as of Fall 1967?

Then factor in Been Way Too Long, Cool Cool Water - Those are from Smile, both of them. Maybe not in name, not in exact form and song structure, but those are Smile ideas getting recorded in Fall '67. Hardly R&B, hardly the "Wild Honey sound" if you will.

Factor in Darlin. This was a hit, a catchy hit with a mean hook and killer groove, reshaping and streamlining and earlier composition which was also given to an outside artist into something for Brian's pal Danny to sing with his group. It had that undefinable "oomph" that sounded more like a hit record than I'd suggest even Wild Honey. Grooved like a motherfucker, didn't it? And it was Brian doing a tune for another "outside" artist.

I'd say all of the above 5 examples I cited could be Brian making music for Brian. There is such a divide, to my ears at least, between those and what he was doing for the Beach Boys. Sometimes the two would intersect and produce terrific results, like Let The Wind Blow, Country Air...hints of "studio Brian" again. But still lacking the icing on top of the cake that I hear in TTGA or Darlin, or the Smile-era quirkiness in CCW and BWTL.

I hear the discontent coming to fruition in those recordings. Not only did Brian hint at it in the Aug '67 interview, but I think he also put it onto tape in the studio via those tracks and perhaps a few others that sound worlds away from what the Beach Boys were doing in Fall '67, song wise, which we'd hear on Wild Honey.

It's a musician torn between making music for himself and making music with and for his band. Not hard to tell which is which just by listening.

Sorry to nitpick such a great post, but - Didn't Carl produce TTGA?

No worries! Listen to the Redwood version of TTGA and that is 100% Brian producing. Mike and Carl took those reels when they showed up at Wally Heider's as Brian was there producing Redwood, and what you hear on the 20/20 album version is the same backing track Brian recorded with Redwood, but with the Beach Boys' voices singing basically the same Redwood vocal arrangement, and a different break.

Not to take away from Carl, but he basically put the bride and groom on the top of a wedding cake that had already been baked, iced, and decorated by Brian through the Redwood sessions.

Listening to the two versions, Redwood and BB's, pretty much proves it by ear alone. It's the same track more or less, and Brian produced the original.

[Rocket]

So I am wondering if that discontent wasn't already evident in that interview. In the 1993 documentary with don was he said the beach boys wanted to make different music from him and that it created a rift

I got sidetracked with the GV stuff, but this is what I also picked up in the interview and wanted to discuss a bit more.

I'd take it a step further and suggest we not only could detect some of the discontent in the interview, but we could all but see (and hear) it play out in the events of Fall 1967, in other words the 2-3 months of Brian's music-making activities that immediately followed this interview.

A sampling of some things he recorded or worked on that we have proof of via recordings and session sheets Fall '67: Cool Cool Water, Been Way Too Long, Darlin (Redwood), Time To Get Alone (Redwood), Surf's Up (solo Brian performance).

Of those particular 5 tracks, 4 of them have either direct Smile roots or a direct and unmistakeable Smile-era influence in sound or construction. Darlin was targeted for Danny Hutton.

After the Hawaii re-rerecords, a new Beach Boys single was needed. Thus, "Wild Honey" was recorded as the first major post-Hawaii song project that fall. R&B sound, "home studio" vibe with that piano, but the main hook was a Theremin - that was no coincidence. This was a single, go back to GV for another Theremin-based hook right out of the gate.

But after that, I'd argue the most musically complex recording and the song/session requiring the most effort from Brian as writer-producer-arranger was "Time To Get Alone", what I still consider one of the highlights of his entire career. There were the little sonic nods to Smile, like the discordant string arrangement that went from bizarre sweeps and whines to beautiful cohesion in the same section of music. A triumphant song and section featuring orchestral overdubs, and the usual "Brian chords" that made it unique. And a polished studio sound that didn't have the home-brew vibe that marked anything the Beach Boys released in the latter half of 1967.

It was "studio Brian" again, for lack of a better description, going for full arrangements and a developed, high-fidelity production, only it wasn't done for or with the Beach Boys.

Then it eventually turned into a debacle as The Beach Boys did not want Brian working with Redwood, they wanted him to produce their next album.

What exactly was that next album? Originally it was going to cull live tracks recorded in '66 and '67 (notably Hawaii which was re-recorded as soon as they got home from Hawaii), and have those live tracks mixed in with the new stuff. But wasn't that sort of a half-assed concept in some ways? Beach Boys old hits recorded (or re-recorded) 'live' padding the album of new material. A compromise? A masterplan all along? Topic for debate. But either way, that original concept of tacking on live material from several shows in the vaults shows perhaps less effort and enthusiasm than the few minutes of beauty and musical sophistication on a track like Time To Get Alone.

That was where Brian's efforts were focused, it would seem. That was, again, "studio Brian" doing up a full production rather than cutting corners, or delivering half-songs with more sparse band backing as heard on most of Wild Honey.

I'm glad they eventually scrapped the live-studio hybrid plan for Wild Honey, but doesn't it show you where the enthusiasm may have been to compare even Time To Get Alone to that original concept of Wild Honey to include vault material?

And take into consideration that solo recording of Surf's Up. One of the most poignant recordings I've ever heard, a total mind-blower...but where did that come from emotionally, practically, and even in the sense of what was it going to be used for if anything? That's Brian, Fall '67, revisiting the centerpiece of his scrapped masterpiece, as the Beach Boys were doing the white R&B sound, which no coincidence Brian also suggested as a new direction, according to Carl.

Surf's Up and Time To Get Alone on one side, and what become Wild Honey on the other...can't you see and hear a musician split between two worlds and two different musical outlooks as of Fall 1967?

Then factor in Been Way Too Long, Cool Cool Water - Those are from Smile, both of them. Maybe not in name, not in exact form and song structure, but those are Smile ideas getting recorded in Fall '67. Hardly R&B, hardly the "Wild Honey sound" if you will.

Factor in Darlin. This was a hit, a catchy hit with a mean hook and killer groove, reshaping and streamlining and earlier composition which was also given to an outside artist into something for Brian's pal Danny to sing with his group. It had that undefinable "oomph" that sounded more like a hit record than I'd suggest even Wild Honey. Grooved like a motherfucker, didn't it? And it was Brian doing a tune for another "outside" artist.

I'd say all of the above 5 examples I cited could be Brian making music for Brian. There is such a divide, to my ears at least, between those and what he was doing for the Beach Boys. Sometimes the two would intersect and produce terrific results, like Let The Wind Blow, Country Air...hints of "studio Brian" again. But still lacking the icing on top of the cake that I hear in TTGA or Darlin, or the Smile-era quirkiness in CCW and BWTL.

I hear the discontent coming to fruition in those recordings. Not only did Brian hint at it in the Aug '67 interview, but I think he also put it onto tape in the studio via those tracks and perhaps a few others that sound worlds away from what the Beach Boys were doing in Fall '67, song wise, which we'd hear on Wild Honey.

It's a musician torn between making music for himself and making music with and for his band. Not hard to tell which is which just by listening.

Sorry to nitpick such a great post, but - Didn't Carl produce TTGA?

No worries! Listen to the Redwood version of TTGA and that is 100% Brian producing. Mike and Carl took those reels when they showed up at Wally Heider's as Brian was there producing Redwood, and what you hear on the 20/20 album version is the same backing track Brian recorded with Redwood, but with the Beach Boys' voices singing basically the same Redwood vocal arrangement, and a different break.

Not to take away from Carl, but he basically put the bride and groom on the top of a wedding cake that had already been baked, iced, and decorated by Brian through the Redwood sessions.

Listening to the two versions, Redwood and BB's, pretty much proves it by ear alone. It's the same track more or less, and Brian produced the original.

Ahh, I see! Thank you for clarifying for me! It wasn't until recently that I even noticed that Carl got the production credit on the track. But, no offense to Carl, it seemed way too advanced to be produced by anyone but Brian.

Now I'm off to listen to the Redwood version somewhere.
Thanks again!

[Jim V.]

OK............?  Well maybe Nile will post up the whole quote. 

Does Nile have to post the whole quote? Are you saying you never saw I Just Wasn't Made For These Times? I find that hard to believe. Regardless of whether Nile (or anybody else) posts a transcript, you've been oddly quiet on the fact that Brian's own then-wife basically said he withdrew because he was worn down by the band giving him trouble. But you for to even give an inch and admit that maybe did scale back his workload because of the rest of the group would just be beyond the pale. Not gonna happen.

I do understand that I am arguing with the guy who has such a hard-on for Mike Love that he even defended Mike when Mike was saying they would celebrate their 50th anniversary by having Justin Timberlake do "Good Vibrations" and Kenny Chesney do "Kokomo." You actually stood up for that. So I'm not surprised you won't give an inch here.

[Cam Mott]

OK............?  Well maybe Nile will post up the whole quote. 

Does Nile have to post the whole quote? Are you saying you never saw I Just Wasn't Made For These Times? I find that hard to believe. Regardless of whether Nile (or anybody else) posts a transcript, you've been oddly quiet on the fact that Brian's own then-wife basically said he withdrew because he was worn down by the band giving him trouble. But you for to even give an inch and admit that maybe did scale back his workload because of the rest of the group would just be beyond the pale. Not gonna happen.

I do understand that I am arguing with the guy who has such a hard-on for Mike Love that he even defended Mike when Mike was saying they would celebrate their 50th anniversary by having Justin Timberlake do "Good Vibrations" and Kenny Chesney do "Kokomo." You actually stood up for that. So I'm not surprised you won't give an inch here.

You're so adorable. When we have the quote we can discuss it.

Re. 50th anniversary: Not only do I not remember having the opinion you say I did, I don't remember ever hearing anything about this. Maybe my memory is more gone than I think. Do you have a quote?

[Nile]

OK............?  Well maybe Nile will post up the whole quote. 

Does Nile have to post the whole quote? Are you saying you never saw I Just Wasn't Made For These Times? I find that hard to believe. Regardless of whether Nile (or anybody else) posts a transcript, you've been oddly quiet on the fact that Brian's own then-wife basically said he withdrew because he was worn down by the band giving him trouble. But you for to even give an inch and admit that maybe did scale back his workload because of the rest of the group would just be beyond the pale. Not gonna happen.

I do understand that I am arguing with the guy who has such a hard-on for Mike Love that he even defended Mike when Mike was saying they would celebrate their 50th anniversary by having Justin Timberlake do "Good Vibrations" and Kenny Chesney do "Kokomo." You actually stood up for that. So I'm not surprised you won't give an inch here.

You're so adorable. When we have the quote we can discuss it.

This is kinda funny, but to satisfy your needs I will try to put a quote later today...but I think it will be close to what I said...

[Mr. Verlander]

Marilyn:  he would slowly just stay in the bedroom, and let the guys record in the studio, since The Beach Boys paid for the studio, and it became more and more he would stay in bed – let them do their thing. He had a real hard time with the guys, after Pet Sounds and after Smile, because he felt guilty that he got all the attention, he was the one who was called the genius, and he felt the guys really resented that, and I think they did. I think it was very hard for them to understand ‘why is Brian Wilson singled out?’. But anyone with a brain would know why.And it was very tough for him because he thought that they all hated him…I think it was like ‘OK you assholes, you think you can do as good as me or whatever – go ahead – YOU do it. You think it’s so easy? You do it’.

[Cam Mott]

Marilyn:  he would slowly just stay in the bedroom, and let the guys record in the studio, since The Beach Boys paid for the studio, and it became more and more he would stay in bed – let them do their thing. He had a real hard time with the guys, after Pet Sounds and after Smile, because he felt guilty that he got all the attention, he was the one who was called the genius, and he felt the guys really resented that, and I think they did. I think it was very hard for them to understand ‘why is Brian Wilson singled out?’. But anyone with a brain would know why.And it was very tough for him because he thought that they all hated him…I think it was like ‘OK you assholes, you think you can do as good as me or whatever – go ahead – YOU do it. You think it’s so easy? You do it’.

OK, thank you Mr. V and Nile.

Sweetdudejim, did you want to start?

[MrRobinsonsFather]

Getting back to Leid in Hawaii was there a reason why Bruce wasn't there. I'm just going off memory here but I seem to remember something along the lines of "it wasn't my scene"

[Ian]

Well as we've discussed in the past Bruce was awol much of that summer of love. He didn't take much part in the smiley smile album sessions.

[Jim V.]

Re. 50th anniversary: Not only do I not remember having the opinion you say I did, I don't remember ever hearing anything about this. Maybe my memory is more gone than I think. Do you have a quote?

You can use the search function if you don't believe me. Or look through you're own post history, Ted.

And regardless, I assume you no longer have that same opinion about Mike getting today's most popular country and pop artists onboard to re-record old Beach Boys hits? If you don't then that's fine. But what do you think of that idea anyways? Do you think it woulda done better than That's Why God Made The Radio?

[Cam Mott]

Re. 50th anniversary: Not only do I not remember having the opinion you say I did, I don't remember ever hearing anything about this. Maybe my memory is more gone than I think. Do you have a quote?

You can use the search function if you don't believe me. Or look through you're own post history, Ted.

And regardless, I assume you no longer have that same opinion about Mike getting today's most popular country and pop artists onboard to re-record old Beach Boys hits? If you don't then that's fine. But what do you think of that idea anyways? Do you think it woulda done better than That's Why God Made The Radio?

Ted?

I literally don't know what you are talking about, I'm as sure as I can be that you have me mixed up with someone else. Perhaps this "Ted" you keep mentioning.

What about that Marilyn quote? Do you remember it? It is on this page.

[Jim V.]

Re. 50th anniversary: Not only do I not remember having the opinion you say I did, I don't remember ever hearing anything about this. Maybe my memory is more gone than I think. Do you have a quote?

You can use the search function if you don't believe me. Or look through you're own post history, Ted.

And regardless, I assume you no longer have that same opinion about Mike getting today's most popular country and pop artists onboard to re-record old Beach Boys hits? If you don't then that's fine. But what do you think of that idea anyways? Do you think it woulda done better than That's Why God Made The Radio?

Ted?

I literally don't know what you are talking about, I'm as sure as I can be that you have me mixed up with someone else. Perhaps this "Ted" you keep mentioning.

What about that Marilyn quote? Do you remember it? It is on this page.

Settle down, Mr. Cruz. Don't get upset. And feel free to expound on the Marilyn quote. It's been posted. You said you were waiting for it to be posted before you responded. So, since you seem to be waiting for it, you now have my permission to go back a page and respond to those of us who were trying to engage in discussion with you.

Thanks for your time.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

This crap again between you two? Please stop.

[Cam Mott]

You're so cute when you get all "Hey, Mr. Cruz!". Whoops, your obsession is showing.

First her observation she seems to agree with Mr. Desper that it was a case of withdrawal and filling the gap and not Brian or the Boys staging some sort of coup from or against each other.

Second, she seems to not know or have forgotten that Derek Taylor took credit for the "genius" campaign as their press agent. Presumably the whole group signed off on that campaign and paid for it.

Third, some of it seems to be speculation of Marilyn (and Brian as told by Marilyn). She "thinks" some of these things.

Fourth, do moderators ever read your posts?

[Cam Mott]

I guess they do.

[CenturyDeprived]

Second, she seems to not know or have forgotten that Derek Taylor took credit for the "genius" campaign as their press agent. Presumably the whole group signed off on that campaign and paid for it.

Regardless if the whole group initially signed off on Taylor being the PR guy, do you really think they had any say in when the genius comment began bring propagated?  If anybody had any objections to that, and I'm not saying that anyone initially did, what were they going to say? "Stop the presses, that's too extreme a statement?"

Resentment usually builds up and leaks out in much more subtle ways than that.

[SMiLE Brian]

Sounds like Cam will do anything to defend Mike Love.

[Mike's Beard]

Re. 50th anniversary: Not only do I not remember having the opinion you say I did, I don't remember ever hearing anything about this. Maybe my memory is more gone than I think. Do you have a quote?

You can use the search function if you don't believe me. Or look through you're own post history, Ted.

And regardless, I assume you no longer have that same opinion about Mike getting today's most popular country and pop artists onboard to re-record old Beach Boys hits? If you don't then that's fine. But what do you think of that idea anyways? Do you think it woulda done better than That's Why God Made The Radio?

Not attempting to answer on Cam's behalf but Brian using pop and country stars on NPP hasn't seem to done him any harm, saleswise.